What is the point to marriage without children? Having fun, then what, die a pointless death?
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Rise of the DINKs (Final Civ Death Stage)
- Thread starter Samseau
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What is the point to marriage without children? Having fun, then what, die a pointless death?
Caduceus
Heritage
There are dozens of reasons that a couple might have for not having children apart from infertility, which have nothing to do with selfishness or hedonism. Besides it's usually nicer to live with someone you like than alone.
Here's some normal reasons off the top of my head a couple might not want kids:
-More than one miscarriage of the mother
-A family history of certain disabilities which may produce partially or totally disabled children
-Children already present from a previous marriage (widower or widow)
-Living in a country that is at war
-Not having sufficient funds for the extra schooling, clothing, housing, and medical expenses each child brings with them
-Elderly parents that already require full time care and insufficient funds to send them to a care home or hire a nurse
-Dual income being the only way to pay ones expenses such as rent or mortgage and a stay at home mother making single income insufficient
-A husband who has a short temper, gambling problems, drinks too much, doesn't know how to budget money...basically any quality that makes a poor father
-A wife who has qualities that would be a terrible mother such as frigidity, forgetfulness, lack of discipline, unstable mentally
-Knowing your children would be attending school with majority faggots, trannies, muslims, blacks and drag queens.
-Total disgust with the state of the world at present and desire not to see another generation suffer under the globohomo faggots.
-Fear that despite being both excellent parents your sons will turn out to be faggots, and your daughters turn out to be multi tattooed porn stars
I could go on and on, but you get the idea....
To label every childless couple selfish and hedonistic is very short sighted.
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The subdeacon at the Orthodox Church I visited for awhile is a DINK, although I'm not sure to what extent his wife works. Both are very active in the church. I'm not in a position to judge but I agree that marriage with children should be the ideal.
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Now that I think about it, I don't know any DINK couples. The one that was that way, they divorced when they were still young and neither has remarried. My wife and I were only DINKs for less than a year, when we were both working before we had our child. It was nice, all that extra income and being able to enjoy things together. I think married couples can have a lot of fun together, after all, that's why modern marriages are made, for fun and companionship with your soulmate, not for any childrearing, although that's assumed to come later. A lot of couples I know who have kids are miserable. It's life on its hardest mode, in my opinion.
I find the people who are older and have never had children still seem immature to me, like they're still in their 20s mentally. Something changed in me when I had a kid, I call it dad-anger, like this new level of potential rage was born. Now I have skin in the game and a deeper reason for wanting society to survive and not collapse. I also have no empathy or tolerance for people with no kids who claim to have anxiety or stress. While no doubt what they feel is real to them, to me it's a walk in the park next to having to stay in a hospital all night next to your sick kid, terrified out of your mind, praying like you've never prayed before.
I find the people who are older and have never had children still seem immature to me, like they're still in their 20s mentally. Something changed in me when I had a kid, I call it dad-anger, like this new level of potential rage was born. Now I have skin in the game and a deeper reason for wanting society to survive and not collapse. I also have no empathy or tolerance for people with no kids who claim to have anxiety or stress. While no doubt what they feel is real to them, to me it's a walk in the park next to having to stay in a hospital all night next to your sick kid, terrified out of your mind, praying like you've never prayed before.
Absolutely, anything can happen with God's blessing. Another quintessential example is the birth of Joseph, the son of Jacob and Rachel when she was already very old.
I watched it and have no qualms with Fr. Josiah's point, it is absolutely essential to counter this trend of those willingly not having children. My comment was not meant to attack him, simply to empathize with Jericho.
Your love for your children is commendable, but I would ask you to reconsider as you are not the only one suffering out there. I have friends who were driven to the brink of suicide. I have family members who died horrible deaths due to disease, and others who had their lives destroyed by a godless, totalitarian regime. Just because it's not our children suffering doesn't make it painless. Since you have a family, you are also granted a great sense of fulfilment that those of us who are still single have not had the fortune of feeling, as Fr. Josiah said.
It is the voluntary throngs of misled cosmopolitans who pursue this path of genetic excision that deserve chastisement, compared to the unfortunate would-be parents who could not experience the blessings of children that deserve pity. For those who choose this willingly, their selfishness will die with them.
This is another injection site for poison that has already been opened with the lacerations of promoted homosexual sterile living, feminism post-third wave, and the obsession with the material over the immaterial. I am still trying to convince one or two people I know who don't want kids but are perfectly able to have them away from this lie. It is not easy, even for some Christians who are misled about certain types of eschatology.
This is indeed the final cycle of the current society, but not the end of the world. Most phenomena are relevant only to those who practice them and are able to successfully pass it on. The governments can't sustain themselves on slave-taxed citizenry if they promote this past one or two generations. Accelerationism has its ups along with its downs.
This is another injection site for poison that has already been opened with the lacerations of promoted homosexual sterile living, feminism post-third wave, and the obsession with the material over the immaterial. I am still trying to convince one or two people I know who don't want kids but are perfectly able to have them away from this lie. It is not easy, even for some Christians who are misled about certain types of eschatology.
This is indeed the final cycle of the current society, but not the end of the world. Most phenomena are relevant only to those who practice them and are able to successfully pass it on. The governments can't sustain themselves on slave-taxed citizenry if they promote this past one or two generations. Accelerationism has its ups along with its downs.
A reminder of why we should tread carefully and not judge.
Ah, you're right, and I guess I should have clarified when I was writing that that I had in mind young people, teenagers and college kids who plague social media with their victimhood. I struggled a lot before I had my child but I never had a panic attack or terror like I did when my child was in serious danger. It's kind of like how you can't experience heartbreak if you never open your heart to anyone. Those without kids won't be able to understand unless they are extremely empathic or are really close to their nieces and nephews.
These are involuntary and not representative of the DINK lifestyle.
These are spiritual issues that can be fixed with a proper Church.
These are cheap excuses not to have kids, and represent DINK Blackpill extinction philosophy.
No one is doing that, and if you bothered to watch the video you'd know that 40% of couples are childless today... this obviously means DINKs are huge. Probably 9/10 childless couples are done so by choice. This is an extinction level event, and people justify extinction by saying the world is broken, things are expensive and they want to travel instead, and other cheap excuses.
I personally know people who have gotten married and never intend to have children without the reasons you express below.
I know it's hard to believe but you're focusing on what this thread is NOT talking about, which kinda means you see our point.
I can't agree with you more. I used to feel a bit like guys who make the excuses that @Caduceus listed but then I actually had children with a good woman. It's so much easier than it might seem to shield your children from all the bad stuff out there. So far just actually caring about my kids and using common sense has done it. I've said it before but I'll say it again: if you don't feel called to the priesthood, purpose and happiness for you probably lie in having children. That's it for most people, unless you're a modern day Nikola Tesla, which you probably aren't. The excuses you're making as to why it's impossible to raise children while other men around you are doing just that are almost certainly Satan whispering in your ear, wishing you misery in this world and the world to come and wanting nothing more than to prevent good men from having families.
l was going to bring up this issue in a separate post but it relates here. Dog culture in the Western world is going mad. These couples get dogs, many times 2 or 3 and they treat them like children. They call themselves dog mommies and dog daddies and center their lives around the dogs. They even demand to be recognized on mothers day. They say things like “People are bad, but dogs are good”. I have personally seen a dog in a baby carriage. They say they don’t want children but they are lying because they still have the biological needs but choose to spend all their resources on a worthless mutt instead of raising the future generations. This is all manufactured and very dark. Hundreds of children have been killed by pitbulls and thousands are injured and mutilated. Our children are being sacrificed to Molech.
I saw Father Josiah's video a while back and I agree he makes excellent points. One thing I've noticed with people who don't want children in my social circle, is a level of arrested development. There is some degree of emotional immaturity and the prevailing attitude is one of annoyance with children -- kind of the opposite of Christ and his open embrace of children. Ironically, as adults they are almost childlike in their emotional state, not being very good at regulating anger or oftentimes sarcastic and unable to have a deeply serious, intellectual conversation without breaking the conversational flow with an absurd joke or a quip that evaporates anything of substance. When I leave after spending time with these people, there is a great sense of emptiness from the interaction.
In contrast, older couples I know who are DINK (not by choice) have a high regard for children and will interact with them in a loving way and treat them as little humans.
One thing I'd be curious about is married couples with children who are constantly farming them out to relatives, or babysitters -- anyone, so they can have their "us" time. Does anyone see this on a regular basis? My wife and I have friends who are constantly "dating" each other, but often at the expense of time with their children. Doing the math, between kids at school/daycare and the amount of time they are working/going out on dates, it seems like there are some weeks where they only get 10-12 hours with their children max. Sometimes I think they'd almost prefer the DINK lifestyle.
In contrast, older couples I know who are DINK (not by choice) have a high regard for children and will interact with them in a loving way and treat them as little humans.
One thing I'd be curious about is married couples with children who are constantly farming them out to relatives, or babysitters -- anyone, so they can have their "us" time. Does anyone see this on a regular basis? My wife and I have friends who are constantly "dating" each other, but often at the expense of time with their children. Doing the math, between kids at school/daycare and the amount of time they are working/going out on dates, it seems like there are some weeks where they only get 10-12 hours with their children max. Sometimes I think they'd almost prefer the DINK lifestyle.
Don't forget that we have a major influence from a multicultural society at its end wealth stages, though those may last. This pairs people with weird concepts and conflicting interests (religion, raising kids, etc). I've met agnostic/atheist jewish couples who married "christians" who have the nerve to practice (usually it's the woman of course) their "roman catholicism" let's say, after having married a jew. It's ridiculous. I'm not trying to pick on anyone, but the whole thing is a clown show much from the inception. If you point that kind of stuff out (read: you're trying to be a real christian or support proper teachings/understanding) people will think you are "mean."
Another thing I've noticed, which is why I don't like the idea of older, western women for marriage, is that they have more help than ever before from parents hovering, etc and they still complain more than anyone in history. It's preposterous. I know a lot of example of this.
The problem with Fr. Josiah's positions (or Tucker Carlson's for that matter) are not that they are technically wrong but they are not open and ultimately honest about the structure of the society that leads to prolonged adolescence and feminism, whether they like it or not. Were Orthodox circles trying to help me form a family at any point and telling their daughters to be wives and mothers, eschewing school, career, etc? I haven't seen it. I haven't even seen a priest with enough sense to (I'm sure it happens occasionally, not saying never) recommend women to a man who is in his 30s or 40s who is in her 20s. Why? They aren't around, don't exist, or you have lost control of them. Talking about what people are or are not doing does zero good when you aren't talking about how biological issues are at core with modernity (see Sv3rige's video or whatever that guy's name is). Because somehow Fr. Josiah met a woman he liked and had 10 kids, or Tucker is a billionaire who married into a family with billions, means others can do what they did? We need to teach people about both biology and probabilities. It's like being a man in general, currently, or a father? Not much you can do when the whole of society is ganged up against you. The best they can do is offer up some old hag or ugly woman, in general - that's not serious stuff.
See the above. Many issues are at hand, including my population boom, which is vastly unknown and not thought about, even on this forum - which explains most of it. It doesn't really matter any longer, though, even understanding it or having figured it out. It won't change until massive die offs and/or economic problems, so it's quite sick or frustrating. I've just resigned myself to thinking about going to other places, whether anything works out or not, at least you can have feminine company occasionally in some cultures.
Depopulation is a trend that will continue* and there's nothing that can be done about it politically/economically etc! (*we haven't tipped the crest of that curve as of yet though) I happen to think it's a good thing, since there's just way to many people on the planet, unlike for example Elon Musk who seems confident that we'll just expand into space and solve it that way!? You can hope, but that's quite optimistic...
This "approaching the end of civilization" idea is hyperbole though. With the global pop. peaking at maybe 10-12 billion in some years we have millennia of depop. to go before it's a problem, and God knows what the world will look like by then. Like it or not, biological immortality and age reversal might be something that many will consider an alternative to having kids in the relative near future. Unlike space colonies and terra-forming, ageing is a problem that it's realistic to solve.
This "approaching the end of civilization" idea is hyperbole though. With the global pop. peaking at maybe 10-12 billion in some years we have millennia of depop. to go before it's a problem, and God knows what the world will look like by then. Like it or not, biological immortality and age reversal might be something that many will consider an alternative to having kids in the relative near future. Unlike space colonies and terra-forming, ageing is a problem that it's realistic to solve.
I'm not sure medical science will achieve extreme life extension, but I agree with the rest.
The global population has gone up 6 billion in my lifetime. There were more than enough people when I was little. We didn't need the extra 6 billion. Even with the current low birth rates in some parts of the world, the population is not going to die out. It will eventually start to decline, more slowly than it came up. I bet it will be at least 200 years before it gets back down to where it was in the 80s. That's not some kind of extinction event as some make it seem.
With the current excess population has come all kinds of stress and misery. Think how much crazier the world has gotten each decade of the past century, then picture it as a graph. Now look at a graph of the population in the same period. They're the same graph.
I dunno. Im trying for kid number 7.... Someones gotta do their part to save Whitey....
I know many Dinks, both Asians and dual income no kids.
One group I feel sorry for... The other I ask for more rice noodles.
I know many Dinks, both Asians and dual income no kids.
One group I feel sorry for... The other I ask for more rice noodles.
It won't. Attempts at changing life in various ways, such as with the transhumanist plans, will come about though.
This is questionable, but it definitely isn't causation, only correlation. We're living in the tail end of an aberration, post WWII population boom in which most places, and certainly those in the developed world, were largely safe, and definitely safe from international actors. Along with this came massive medical tech/antibiotics, farming/food efficiency, and technology of all sorts. The population isn't the problem, it's the quality. The problem is that there is the theoretical -yes, if everyone were traditional and religious you wouldn't have as many problems - but the reality is that with massive population increases you are by definition providing for safety across the board and outs for many. That lowers quality, pretty significantly. Then you have the crowding effect. Thus, my ecology and population boom law. It's now a law, not a theory anymore.
Yes. This has been going on for awhile. In the early 2000's I worked in high-end childcare for the rich. It was disgusting.
Many modern parents will do anything to avoid spending time with their children.
This has really accelerated in 2024. Everywhere I go in The South I see elderly white women with little light skinned mulatto black babies in their shopping carts. It is so prevalent that it has prompted me to want to make t-shirts and bumper stickers that say:
Grandparents
Are NOT Parents
Agreed.It won't. Attempts at changing life in various ways, such as with the transhumanist plans, will come about though.
This is questionable, but it definitely isn't causation, only correlation. We're living in the tail end of an aberration, post WWII population boom in which most places, and certainly those in the developed world, were largely safe, and definitely safe from international actors. Along with this came massive medical tech/antibiotics, farming/food efficiency, and technology of all sorts. The population isn't the problem, it's the quality. The problem is that there is the theoretical -yes, if everyone were traditional and religious you wouldn't have as many problems - but the reality is that with massive population increases you are by definition providing for safety across the board and outs for many. That lowers quality, pretty significantly. Then you have the crowding effect. Thus, my ecology and population boom law. It's now a law, not a theory anymore.
I would say excess population causes the problems you cite. It's not like a globe spanning city would work if not for that pesky social decay. The correlation between excess population and social decay is an iron law.
Edit: I realised you make this point in the end. Added Agreed at the top.