Nicotine addiction

[Tippy]

Nicotine is getting a resurgence I think. A lot of the claims surrounding it are simply not true, I don't think we can even conclusively say if it's carcinogenic or not. There is some cardiotoxicity from it and I know it can effect blood pressure and heart function but if you use it in moderation I don't think it's an issue. I do also recall that nicotine increases a protein called Delta Fos-B which is implicated in dopamine response in the prefrontal cortex, this has some implications too. A quick chat GPT summary:

• Dopamine Regulation: DeltaFosB enhances the sensitivity of neurons to dopamine. This increased sensitivity can lead to a stronger response to the presence of dopamine, amplifying the reward sensation that nicotine (or other addictive substances) produces.
• Behavioral Sensitization: As DeltaFosB accumulates, it can lead to behavioral sensitization, where the individual becomes increasingly sensitive to the effects of the drug. This means that even with the same amount of nicotine, the brain’s reward system might produce a stronger response over time.
• Long-Term Changes: DeltaFosB also induces long-term changes in gene expression that contribute to the persistence of addictive behaviors. For example, it can promote the expression of certain proteins that make the brain more responsive to nicotine, making it harder for someone to quit.
• Cross-Sensitization: Interestingly, DeltaFosB’s effects are not limited to nicotine. It can also sensitize the brain to other addictive substances, which is one reason why individuals who are addicted to one substance might be more susceptible to becoming addicted to another.

If you're going to use nicotine you should not use it long term and if you have had a history of substance abuse (even caffeine) it can increase your chances of other addictions occuring. So, be mindful of how much/how long you use it, and which route of administration you go with. Vape pens are absolutely horrible though and I would strongly advise against them.

I do go through periods of using lozenges or recently, Zyn, which I didn't know was just nicotine salts, not chewless tobacco. I used to use Swedish snus, which is arguably one of the safest forms of any nicotine/tobacco product, but it's getting taken off the market now so Zyn/lozenges is a good alternative. Zyn is better bang for your buck but more addicting than lozenges. If you can afford lozenges, do it. Ideally, patches are actually the safest and least addictive option, but they're quite expensive.

The thing I've noticed about nicotine too, at least for me, is that I can quit it cold turkey and feel no withdrawals. I think it's entirely psychological. It definitely has its uses, it's particularly great for long motorcycle rides or road trips, or just maintaining productivity. But, I have noticed that I had similar mindset to justify using other drugs (kratom, pot) in the past, and it's possible I am deluding myself now in the same way as with nicotine. Thing is though nicotine has proven neurocognitive benefits that can justify it. There's even evidence it can ward off cognitive decline/dementia. So you gotta take the bad with the good. Andrew Huberman even uses nicotine himself though he also admits to using only 2mg of gum a few times a week, but he may just be sensitive to it. I always seemed to need to use a lot to really notice anything.

I got awful withdrawals from going off nicotine, particularly depression. It's mostly from maxing out your dopamine receptors and then removing the source of dopamine. It's dangerous really to get huge hits of dopamine from an activity that requires no effort as it will mess with your motivation.

I also got so anxious at times I relapsed into alcohol to take the edge off the nicotine anxiety. Just awful. I'm staying away from these demonic super stimulants.

Yes Huberman was taking it but he was taking 1mg and only that daily. If you can moderate to such low amounts, go for it. I always end up consuming it non stop but the positive effects soon wear off and I am just taking it to not have to deal with the withdrawals.

A big reason for taking it in my case is boredom. But it's such a dumb thing to do because you are getting this amped up stimulation but not really doing anything. Much better to get a change in emotional state by doing something different than relying on drugs.

 

[Batman]

I got awful withdrawals from going off nicotine, particularly depression. It's mostly from maxing out your dopamine receptors and then removing the source of dopamine. It's dangerous really to get huge hits of dopamine from an activity that requires no effort as it will mess with your motivation.

I also got so anxious at times I relapsed into alcohol to take the edge off the nicotine anxiety. Just awful. I'm staying away from these demonic super stimulants.

Yes Huberman was taking it but he was taking 1mg and only that daily. If you can moderate to such low amounts, go for it. I always end up consuming it non stop but the positive effects soon wear off and I am just taking it to not have to deal with the withdrawals.

A big reason for taking it in my case is boredom. But it's such a dumb thing to do because you are getting this amped up stimulation but not really doing anything. Much better to get a change in emotional state by doing something different than relying on drugs.

Idk how he notices anything from it from 1mg. Even after months or years off, I would need to take 6-8mg of a lozenges to notice anything.

I find it helps to use nicotine as a reward or to enhance certain activities. It's really, really enjoyable after a workout. I also tend to use it on road trips or when motorcycling to stay sharp. It's indeed abysmal to use it passively you're bored, just laying around at home on the couch. Huberman has talked about this, when you get an immediate dopaminergic response from nothing, instead of from goal-seeking / effort-based behavior, it completely messes with your reward system.

If you want a tip for withdrawals, Bupropion (Wellbutrin) can help a lot. It's an atypical antidepressant (not SSRI) which are the goats of antidepressants. It has the added benefit of being a nicotine receptor antagonist, and is even prescribed as a smoking cessation aid. If you take it, it will severely reduce, or even nullify the effect of nicotine. It's imperitive that you continue using the nicotine, because your brain will begin to associate the nicotine with no reward, which will lead to decreased cravings. NAC might also help too, and much easier to get your hands on. But, I bet if you talked to a family doctor about a nicotine addiction, most would be willing to prescribe it. Say what you will about doctors and pharmaceutical drugs, but they're not all bad, and they do have their uses.

 

[Knight.of.Logos]

About a year ago, I did a deep dive into nicotine and some of the health benefits (such as it can help prevent Covid, reduce chance of developing dementia, nootropic effects at low dose, etc.). At first I used low doses (around 1.5 mg) for nootropic effects and it felt great, motivating. Keep in mind I never really smoked, except once in a blue moon I'd have a cigar or something.

Using it "once in a while" for a nootropic boost ended up becoming an addiction. I worked my way up to having around 40-60 mg a day, mostly pouches and the mints (Nic Nac Naturals, which are definitely one of the least harmful ways to do nicotine IMO). It started messing up my energy levels, making me have anxiety, and I started to feel tension in my chest. I cut down a lot, I now do about half of that and all the side effects went away. I plan to eventually quit but I am going to wait until I have a vacation break from work. At least I got it down to a more manageable dose, and I rarely do pouches anymore I stick to the Nic Nac mints, which have no synthetic crap in them.

For those who never started - don't. The small boost I got initially which helped me be productive and happier went away before long, and now I just have an addiction to it. Some people get really bad symptoms from oral nicotine, especially really high doses, so it is not "harmless." It is a vasoconstrictor, which is why people get tensions or pains in their chest. If you are going to do nicotine, try to be healthy in other ways. I recommend taking some herbs or foods that dilate the blood vessels to balance the vasoconstricting property of nicotine. Having a nice hot chocolate (raw cacao, not the processed crap) or hibiscus tea are some of my favorite vasodilating drinks. I swear, it makes the nicotine "work better" too, but maybe that is placebo. I also take ginkgo to help with circulation.

 

[Hannibal]

I use swedish snus. Nicotine for me helps me to concentrate on solitary tasks for long periods of time, as I currently do maintenance and repair for a lab and I am a one man team.

I have no desire to quit, however your anxiety and other psychological problems are probably from using too much of it. I use, fairly consistently, 8 to 10 of the pouches a day at a 8 to 9mg nicotine strength. It has been months and the use has not increased. Before then, I smoked a pack a day for well over ten years. Swedish snus is a night and day difference for me compared to cigarettes.

It has been 6 months since this post and my useage has not increased. If anything, total useage has decreased because some days I don't even use it.

My gums have not receded (any more than they already were). No cavities either. It takes me 3 days or so to go through a can, so I'm spending a whopping 9 dollars a week, compared to the 70 or so dollars a week I was spending on cigarettes.

My favorites so far are göteborgs rapé, odens cold, general snus original, and vita mint regular strength. I have not tried much in the way of loose snus yet, next time I order more I am buying a prismaster or a portioner because I find it very easy to overdo the size of the pinch.

If they ever make it illegal to import here, I am simply going to make it at home. It is easy to make with a pressure cooker and even a bag of the shredded pipe tobacco will do as a main ingredient.

Portions are very convenient for work but you can use a corner of a coffee filter or a rolling paper to achieve a similar effect. Only other ingredient is washing soda, which is just baking soda that's been cooked in an oven for a time. Extras would be flavorings, absolutely do not use any sugary substance for flavor, you will rot your teeth.