Martial Arts/MMA Thread

jaguarcat said:
Well the boxer/thai boxer obviously does not want to ever go to the ground, so the goal is to knock the opponent out or maintain the distance otherwise.
Any proof that bjj would win over a boxer in 9 out if 10 cases, or ever? On MMA forums the consensus seems to be in favor of boxers
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Early UFCs like 1-5, I don’t think any strikers won since it was style vs style. Especially with those type of rules it’s hard to avoid getting taken down with the ring/cage and knocking someone out is harder than people think. Now everyone has to be good at everything.
 
TruthTeller said:
Early UFCs like 1-5, I don’t think any strikers won since it was style vs style. Especially with those type of rules it’s hard to avoid getting taken down with the ring/cage and knocking someone out is harder than people with think. Now everyone has to be good at everything.
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That's a thing, ring rules. In a street fight there is no rules...
 
jaguarcat said:
That's a thing, ring rules. In a street fight there is no rules...
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Well Vale Tudo and the early UFCs were the closest we got to real street fights. If you’re talking a 1 on 1 match striker vs. a grappler with no weapons, the fact has been shown over and over that it’s easier for a grappler to engage and take the striker down before getting knocked out. Just watch the matches. Boxers have little training in defending takedowns from the clinch or in general. If they miss their knockout punch and get taken down it’s over.

In a real situation with lots of people sure it’s usually better to be standing.
 
Wutang said:
A big reason for the dominance of wresting in MMA isn't just because of the techniques (though of course having a good double and single leg is a big leg up) but because of the way wrestlers trains. There's no such thing as a casual or hobbyist wrestler. If you are on the wrestling team then you are expected to compete and all of your training will be geared towards that. That means endless hours of grueling conditioning, drilling and going live. This really builds a level of physical prowess as well as mental toughness that you just aren't going to get from doing karate 3 hours a week at some strip mall.

A common thing you would see back in older MMA fights once wrestlers started pouring in to the sport is seeing some wrestler who only had a bit of basic submission skills take down some BJJ black belt guy and and grind him down and win either by decision or by a ground and pound TKO. The BJJ guy would have technique but the wrestler would be able to be able to take down the BJJ guy or at least push him against the cage and just drain his stamina and since the wrestler would usually be better conditioned and would just be more used to these grueling situations they would just win just based on toughness rather then being technically superior.
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100%.

Good boxing and kickboxing gyms will have an intense atmosphere too and there's no reason in theory that a BJJ gym couldn't be run like that--BJJ and wrestling are both just grappling with different rule sets at the end of the day--but for a variety of reasons they rarely if ever are.
 
TruthTeller said:
Well Vale Tudo and the early UFCs were the closest we got to real street fights. If you’re talking a 1 on 1 match striker vs. a grappler with no weapons, the fact has been shown over and over that it’s easier for a grappler to engage and take the striker down before getting knocked out. Just watch the matches. Boxers have little training in defending takedowns from the clinch or in general. If they miss their knockout punch and get taken down it’s over.

In a real situation with lots of people sure it’s usually better to be standing.
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Street fight is mostly a situation of one against a street fighter or some crazed person, or multiple people.
My understanding is that boxing/kickboxing versus bjj would be effective against multiple attackers or an attacker with a weapon. On the ground, bjj wins, and unless someone is trained in bjj one should focus on not being taken down.
 
If we're talking about street fights, I think having a weapon would be preferable to any sort of bare hand martial arts.

You have to ask yourself what your main motive for training is. If it is self-defense, the most efficient use of your time would be to get a gun and learn how to draw and use it or if there's legal barriers against that where you live, find another weapon. Learning how to fight via an empty hand martial art whether it be striking or grappling is going to require a big time investment for you to get to a level where you can actually put into use. Even with an effective martial art like BJJ I think it would take about 1-2 years for a person of average athleticism and size to be confident that he could consistently employ it effectively. This is a big reason I'm not for those self-defense seminars where you practice a bunch of moves for 2 hours and then don't do anything to review them. You need consistent regular training.
 
jaguarcat said:
Well the boxer/thai boxer obviously does not want to ever go to the ground, so the goal is to knock the opponent out or maintain the distance otherwise.
Any proof that bjj would win over a boxer in 9 out if 10 cases, or ever? On MMA forums the consensus seems to be in favor of boxers.
One thing is boxers are definitely faster than bjj folks, they train for speed and usually got genetics for this
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TruthTeller is correct that random street fights should be avoided if at all possible but you need to know how to do both...the advantage of grappling (whether that's wrestling, BJJ, judo, whatever) is that if you know how to grapple and the other guy doesn't you can choose to engage and disengage at will.

Grappling is also useful for other real world but lower stakes situations....if your uncle has a few too many at Thanksgiving and starts trouble you'd probably rather restrain him than knock him out.
 
Wutang said:
If we're talking about street fights, I think having a weapon would be preferable to any sort of bare hand martial arts.

You have to ask yourself what your main motive for training is. If it is self-defense, the most efficient use of your time would be to get a gun and learn how to draw and use it or if there's legal barriers against that where you live, find another weapon. Learning how to fight via an empty hand martial art whether it be striking or grappling is going to require a big time investment for you to get to a level where you can actually put into use. Even with an effective martial art like BJJ I think it would take about 1-2 years for a person of average athleticism and size to be confident that he could consistently employ it effectively. This is a big reason I'm not for those self-defense seminars where you practice a bunch of moves for 2 hours and then don't do anything to review them. You need consistent regular training.
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100%, but if you're a white male and you use any kind of a weapon in self defense anywhere in the western world outside red and purple areas of the US, and maybe even there, you're almost certainly going to jail even if that weapon was legal for you to carry in the first place.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't train with and carry a gun or other weapon as legal where you live and use it as a last resort, but understand that it should be a last resort.
 
Wutang said:
If we're talking about street fights, I think having a weapon would be preferable to any sort of bare hand martial arts.

You have to ask yourself what your main motive for training is. If it is self-defense, the most efficient use of your time would be to get a gun and learn how to draw and use it or if there's legal barriers against that where you live, find another weapon. Learning how to fight via an empty hand martial art whether it be striking or grappling is going to require a big time investment for you to get to a level where you can actually put into use. Even with an effective martial art like BJJ I think it would take about 1-2 years for a person of average athleticism and size to be confident that he could consistently employ it effectively. This is a big reason I'm not for those self-defense seminars where you practice a bunch of moves for 2 hours and then don't do anything to review them. You need consistent regular training.
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The thing is in most countries one is not allowed to use a weapon for self defence, even a cold weapon. Guns, only something like 4 countries in the world allow to carry and use them.

Regarding training, for someone like myself who is always in remote rural areas boxing or muay thai is a lot easier to train. In most countries, multiple attackers is a likely situation, another benefit of striking skills
 
I think speed is very important in a street fight, even the speed that allows to pick time and run away, not just striking speed.
Just watched a vid with 2 or 3 strong looking Ukraine war veterans taken down by one crazed skinny small teenager in the street, all he used was pretty small rubber baton. These tough dudes went straight to the ground and cried like girls. More thugs joined in and pepper sprayed them. The dudes were beefy and fresh from the war frontlines seemed to have some fighting skills and one challenged the teen to drop the stick and fight proper, gym style...but this was a street fight and the quick teen worked the baton on their faces real fast and down they went
 
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You might need BJJ, to get to your defensive tools, and the amount of mat time a rank beginner needs for this, it much less than one year. More than one seminar! Two hours, twice a month, for half a year, is that enough to get up to speed?

Really, it's routine training that the menfolk should be conducting at church, after coffee hour. Or after men's bible study group midweek. iirc Musonius of Rebel Yell said that most of the colonial settlers did this on Sundays: service and sermon, then military drill.
 
Need some help brothers. I'm enrolling my 3 year old son at the local gym. They offer BJJ and Muay Thai. He very much enjoys wrestling with me and I've been able to go stronger on him recently, so I think he's ready to start.

Could you give me your opinion on which way to go initially?
 
Brebelle3 said:
Need some help brothers. I'm enrolling my 3 year old son at the local gym. They offer BJJ and Muay Thai. He very much enjoys wrestling with me and I've been able to go stronger on him recently, so I think he's ready to start.

Could you give me your opinion on which way to go initially?
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Do they offer a free class to try?

Typically most martial art schools offer free "introductory classes" for anyone who is interested in trying a martial art. This allows parents to decide whether to enroll their children or not and to see if it is a good fit. Otherwise, a student who enrolled without trying a class will quit or lose interest within three to six months. Small children have short attention span and gets bored pretty quickly in doing the same thing in a class - i.e., repeating the same technique, form, etc. - over and over.
 
budoslavic said:
Do they offer a free class to try?

Typically most martial art schools offer free "introductory classes" for anyone who is interested in trying a martial art. This allows parents to decide whether to enroll their children or not and to see if it is a good fit. Otherwise, a student who enrolled without trying a class will quit or lose interest within three to six months. Small children have short attention span and gets bored pretty quickly in doing the same thing in a class - i.e., repeating the same technique, form, etc. - over and over.
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Yes, they offer free initial classes and even said he could go a few times before they'd need a commitment.

Maybe I could try them both a couple times each and see what he's more attracted to?

Losing interest is definitely something I'd be concerned about, especially starting at such a young age. It's pretty expensive and quite a commitment, but I want to get him around other boys.

Appreciate the advice.
 
Brebelle3 said:
Yes, they offer free initial classes and even said he could go a few times before they'd need a commitment.

Maybe I could try them both a couple times each and see what he's more attracted to?
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Try both and go from there. This way, you could gauge your son's interest level.

Brebelle3 said:
Losing interest is definitely something I'd be concerned about, especially starting at such a young age.
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Yep, that is what you need to watch out for. But don't stress over it. From my experience in 30 plus years of martial arts, children sometime return to martial arts to try again when they get older into their teen years or adulthood for self-defense, exercises, etc. Martial arts won't go away.

I had taught many different martial art classes for children; I had seen kids dropped out pretty quickly. But some of them came back years later.

Brebelle3 said:
It's pretty expensive and quite a commitment, but I want to get him around other boys.
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Yes, it is very expensive if/when a contract is involved, which is extremely common in the BJJ world. This is why I don't believe in contract.

From my experience working as a full-time karate instructor for a former popular karate school in the 1990's, my ex-instructor (karate school owner) pushed people to sign a contract (1 year, 3 years, etc.). It led to some petty conflicts and disagreements as well as negative reviews by disgruntled students.

However, it all comes down to finding a good high quality instructor so it is worth an investment. Of course, making new like-minded friends in the martial arts world is a bonus.

Brebelle3 said:
Appreciate the advice.
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Yep, good luck!
 
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