Marriage: Virgins vs Non-virgins

[Australia Sucks]

Personally if I were to get married in the future marrying a non-virgin woman would be unacceptable to me. I would only look for a virgin woman. I just want to see how other male members feel about this and if they would marry a non-virgin or would insist on a virgin woman.

Is there a way we can do a poll on the topic?

 

[Caduceus]

Good luck finding a (non muslim) girl in the western world over 19 years old who is still a virgin.
It's something like less than 1% of the whole female population.

 

[SeaEagle]

I can't expect a woman to be a virgin as I lived my earlier years as a "slutmaker" myself.

If she's had a few partners and has repented like I have, good enough.

Not ideal obviously, but it is what it is.

 

[Lawrence87]

Given the state of things, its probably better to put it on the 'desirable but not essential' list of criteria, because frankly good luck if you insist on finding a virgin in the west, unless you have zero standards in terms of beauty.

Better to make 'genuine repentance' an essential criteria. I'm not saying bagging yourself a virgin for a wife is impossible, but, especially if you're over 30, you ought not make it a hill to die on. Unless you're comfortable with the possibility of remaining celibate...

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Given the state of things, its probably better to put it on the 'desirable but not essential' list of criteria, because frankly good luck if you insist on finding a virgin in the west, unless you have zero standards in terms of beauty.

Better to make 'genuine repentance' an essential criteria. I'm not saying bagging yourself a virgin for a wife is impossible, but, especially if you're over 30, you ought not make it a hill to die on. Unless you're comfortable with the possibility of remaining celibate...

This is pretty much my suggestion.

If you're not a virgin, you can ask and want until the cows come home, but it's unlikely you'll be finding this unicorn...and if you're not a virgin, frankly you don't deserve one either.

What is desirable and what is attainable are often not the same thing.

 

[GoodShepherd]

If you are a virgin its quite possible you will find another virgin to be matched up with and its what you would naturally desire, especially if you going to church and so is the girl, if you are not a virgin yourself or have been divorced I dont think its right to want to marry a virgin because its also not fair to your potential wife.

 

[Lawrence87]

If you are a virgin its quite possible you will find another virgin to be matched up with and its what you would naturally desire, especially if you going to church and so is the girl, if you are not a virgin yourself or have been divorced I dont think its right to want to marry a virgin because its also not fair to your potential wife.

I think this is a good point. It's not reasonable to expect a standard from someone that you yourself have not met. Fornication damages both men and women. Maybe not in exactly the same way, but its true nonetheless that it damages you. I think bringing that and offering it to someone who is pure in that regard is not really fair on them

 

[Iacobus]

Some very wise takes ITT already. All I can say is if I passed up the chance to marry my wife because I was autistic about her virginity/lack thereof then it would have been the biggest mistake of my life.

We are imperfect men living in an imperfect world and so we can't expect perfect wives. Beauty, youth, fertility, virginity, modesty, fear of God, loyalty, diligence, motherly affect, pureness of heart, willingness to serve the husband... some of those qualities are going to have to be compromised on. I can't say virginity would make my top 3 or even my top 5 if I was ranking that list of attributes in terms of importance.

 

[Rational1]

I can't expect a woman to be a virgin as I lived my earlier years as a "slutmaker" myself.

If she's had a few partners and has repented like I have, good enough.

Not ideal obviously, but it is what it is.

My take as well. Realistically the numbers of virgins are extremely low, past say age 25. A few long term relationships that didn’t work out is the happy medium.

 

[clarencesd]

I can't say virginity would make my top 3 or even my top 5 if I was ranking that list of attributes in terms of importance.

Well said.
Let's also not forget that about two thirds of women in western countries have received mRNA or vector vaccines.
This is something that noone will really be able to erase from their bodies and souls.

 

[SeaEagle]

I'm starting to realize my perceived lonliness is just yet another manifestation or spiritual disease.

Living according to God's plan for me in the present moment, discarding my own worries and fears is the only way. If He wants to give me a wife, he will make it happen.

Every time I've been desperate in business dealings, I've gotten bad deals. The same has been true in my "romantic" life.

 

[Sandalwood Peak]

Not to say sexually active women are "good" but this concept of "innocent" women roaming around is a trap. They're also aware of how they're perceived.

A modern woman frame of reference is whores because they're the only ones who get anything. They're the ones with decent jobs, on billboards, out clubbing having fun, getting dolled up in salons, going on dates with fun, well dressed or dangerous men.

So obviously your average "innocent" might not be imagining porno scenarios, maybe she does, regardless she still sees plenty of things she finds harmless and fun in the whore world that eludes her for one or another reason.

An innocent woman is also going to have pressures to settle. Other women will tell her to get a boyfriend because she's always alone. Random below average guys are going to be smiling at her since she looks like a good starter girlfriend or something at their level. She's going to get a complex since it will feel like she's being pigeonholed in life to be a nobody. We're talking women who decided not to settle and are available.

So right of the bat you need to be several degrees higher than her to get her interested which can only happen overseas at this point and the time is running out by the day. There may or may not be a beautiful honeymoon period where she's enjoying her new circumstances but it will end and who she truly is as a person will take over.

Then we get to ourselves. We have two choices. Pretend that we were sexually pious our whole life or... Tell her you were a complete degenerate who one day just up and decided you didn't like that "lifestyle" and now expect everyone else to live by your standards. Worse yet you can hide behind God, even though you chose not to listen to him for decades.

So I make it easier on myself. I dont look for virgins specifically, all I care about is how I'm treated and whether a woman is displaying outright hypergomous and promiscuous behaviors like flirting with all potential suitors. When a woman is into you there's no doubt. 9/10 this is going to to line up with this desire of "innocence" or low body count anyway or at the very least "decent moral character".

 

[Douglas Quaid]

So my confidence is finally back and I've been making the effort to meet more women recently. There's a very noticeable difference between virgin women, like they wouldn't be a liability down the line. I think virgin is absolutely the way to go if you want a peaceful future. The only exception is a woman that's only been with one man that was a long-term boyfriend.

But modern women really are crazy and it's like dodging bullets left and right out there. And the amount of women with boyfriends or "seeing" someone and trying to monkey branch is also infuriating. I'm getting better at filtering them out.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

Good luck finding a (non muslim) girl in the western world over 19 years old who is still a virgin.
It's something like less than 1% of the whole female population.

This is true but still possible if you go to church/hang around Christian women that take it seriously. Much better odds.

 

[Lawrence87]

I'm starting to realize my perceived lonliness is just yet another manifestation or spiritual disease.

Living according to God's plan for me in the present moment, discarding my own worries and fears is the only way. If He wants to give me a wife, he will make it happen.

Every time I've been desperate in business dealings, I've gotten bad deals. The same has been true in my "romantic" life.

I think in some ways for all us men who maybe have gone astray in our youth with fornication and so forth (I don't know if this is the case with you personally, but its true of a lot of us here) are being taught a few lessons by God.

1. Women are not the most important thing in life. God is. Ultimately I think realising this is key to finding a godly woman.

2. That we need to overcome the conditioning we have recieved from an over-sexualised culture. A lot of us have been inclined to idolize sexual relationships above all other kinds of relationships. I believe in these times we are called to realise the depth and importance of our other relationships; being a son, a brother, being a spiritual son of our priest, being a brother in Christ, a friend and so forth.

3. That we need to develop chastity. Again, our culture has taught us that the orgasm is the highest aim and many of us have destroyed ourselves in the pursuit of this and gained many bad habits. If we are to be truly prepared for marriage we are to be in control of ourselves. Marriage is not a licensed outlet for our urge to coom that has been given the stamp of approval by God. It's a sacrament of God and is salvific first and foremost. I believe many of us will continue to be taught this the hard way so long as we think of marriage as license to coom.

I think its important not to be despondent about the state of things in terms of relationships because these things could shift in unexpected ways and I think the more decent men repent and lead godly lives the more women will follow, or will not even go down the road that many women have in our society. Making a sincere effort to be men of God is the best option we have, both in finding a suitable wife, and in coping with the worst outcome.

 

[Australia Sucks]

Given the state of things, its probably better to put it on the 'desirable but not essential' list of criteria, because frankly good luck if you insist on finding a virgin in the west, unless you have zero standards in terms of beauty.

Better to make 'genuine repentance' an essential criteria. I'm not saying bagging yourself a virgin for a wife is impossible, but, especially if you're over 30, you ought not make it a hill to die on. Unless you're comfortable with the possibility of remaining celibate...

Nobody is talking about finding a virgin in the west. Obviously you would need to go to a non-western country to look for a virgin.

 

[Australia Sucks]

Also to the guys saying its not fair to expect a virgin woman when you are not a virgin I disagree. Because historically a man's value was never predicated on his virginity and still isn't today. Very few women even prefer a virgin guy. In fact most of them would prefer if the guy is not virgin because they expect the man to take the lead in the bedroom and also they want a man that other women desire.

It seems like feminist logic to say only a virgin man should expect a virgin.

A man should be in good shape, be wise and financially and emotionally stable to look after a woman.
A woman should be young, beautiful, fertile and virgin.
Different traits are desirable in women vs men.

Just to reinforce the point I have met plenty of men who want (or wanted) virgin wives but I have never personally met a woman who wanted specifically a virgin husband.

 

[Rational1]

Also to the guys saying its not fair to expect a virgin woman when you are not a virgin I disagree. Because historically a man's value was never predicated on his virginity and still isn't today. Very few women even prefer a virgin guy. In fact most of them would prefer if the guy is not virgin because they expect the man to take the lead in the bedroom and also they want a man that other women desire.

It seems like feminist logic to say only a virgin man should expect a virgin.

A man should be in good shape, be wise and financially and emotionally stable to look after a woman.
A woman should be young, beautiful, fertile and virgin.
Different traits are desirable in women vs men.

Just to reinforce the point I have met plenty of men who want (or wanted) virgin wives but I have never personally met a woman who wanted specifically a virgin husband.

This is correct. My take on accepting non virgins is just because of the insanely low availability of virgins, overseas it may be better, I am in the US. I agree with you that a man’s value is not predicated on being a virgin and it is a hindrance with even conservative women. Something about women wanting a guy above them or more experienced that fits into the leader/follower dynamic.

There is also real world data, where I have witnessed some of the most degenerate men eventually stop the playboy lifestyle and bag a virgin or close to it. These were usually foreign guys, like Latin men or even Muslims who view western women as whores to be abused, then head back to their own country and find a virgin wife. I’m not saying that it is right, but it is possible. Their advantage is the strong cultural forces. Rarely have I seen a western guy do this successfully in the west, usually because the skew is so bad. Western guys will just settle for the first girl who is into them, virgin/non virgin, fat, bitchy, current or former whore or whatever. It is really a degenerate sight to behold.

 

[cosine]

A man should be in good shape, be wise and financially and emotionally stable to look after a woman.
A woman should be young, beautiful, fertile and virgin.
Different traits are desirable in women vs men.

I think financially and emotionally stable should be added to your woman list too, everyone needs that. Sure, she probably won't always be emotionally stable, but she can be relatively stable.

Also it's crucial that both people actually communicate well. I've seen marriages end where the differences seemed really easy to reconcile but there was little to no communication about it until there was some massive resentment buildup.

 

[Rax Moscow]

Also to the guys saying its not fair to expect a virgin woman when you are not a virgin I disagree. Because historically a man's value was never predicated on his virginity and still isn't today.

Not only that, but we aren't doomed to something in another person because we also sinned. If a man becomes addicted to drugs, is it wrong for him to marry a girl who shuns drugs?

Just because we have sinned, does not mean we are doomed to only court women who have similarly sinned. Sinning is going to hurt your chances of finding a chaste / teetotaling / clean wife, of course.

Very few women even prefer a virgin guy. In fact most of them would prefer if the guy is not virgin because they expect the man to take the lead in the bedroom and also they want a man that other women desire.

It has nothing to do with what women desire, and entering into a marriage because of things women want is a disaster. Of course, no one should fornicate, male or female, married or single.

And women should absolutely not choose a man because of what he's going to do in the bedroom. Sex is not rocket science. Like every other mammal on the planet, when it comes time for that, the husband and wife will figure it out.

I suppose if you are coming at things from an atheistic point of view you won't understand the biblical virtue of chastity. But just keep in mind every major religion in the world reinforces this virtue.