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Marriage / Established Relationships

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Steady Hands

Steady Hands

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The idea of this thread is to discuss anything related to marriage or other established relationships characterised by commitment and longer-term intentions.

This could include ideas, experiences, situations, plans on the development and maintenance of marriage/relationships, alongside sharing of resources, entertainment or humour.

To my knowledge both men and women can post here and thus perspectives from both genders are welcome.

Discussions relating to men's interest in seeking, selecting, and courting women in the earlier stages of the relationship can be shared in the Courtship sub-forum.
 
I'll start with a bit of cross posting from public threads on RVF given it's the final day of operation there.

Please note this is not my post, but has some interesting points and lists several resources at the end.

[Warning: language]


Tytalus said:
Married 13 years now, 3 children. Marriage is hard. Fact is, any long term relationship where you live with someone is, HARD. Here's what I see leading to a happier, (not necessarily happy) marriage:

(0) Pick a suitable woman who pleases you. It's hard to fix the wrong pick, and I speak from personal experience.

(1) Emotional regulation is key. Getting upset, angry, shouting, and being critical is very destructive. An immature woman will provoke you to make herself horny. A mature woman will resist that temptation. Tone of voice is so critical, and so hard to notice unless you've trained yourself to hear it. You know the whole "Stop shouting at me!" when you're not even raising your voice? Your tone is too violent/angry to women.

(2) Households generate a LOT of work, especially with little kids. Even homemakers need help. If you want to be happy, you can't sit on your ass and do nothing in the evenings or weekend. Set aside at least an hour a day to stay on top of your house once you have kids. PLAN your week.

And for fucks sake clean up after yourself - after 18 you're not a monkey who walks around taking a dump wherever they feel like it. Grown men are not children who can't clean anything.

(3) You get out what you put in. If you keep waiting for her to improve or change before you change, your relationship will never change.

(4) When you make a mistake, own up to it. And, try to as much as possible to never severely fuck up and neglect/abuse your wife. She won't forget and it will take years to recover from.

(5) You will have friction in your marriage. Period. You don't need to "fight" (yell/scream) but disagreements will happen, feelings will be hurt. What defines your relationship is how you REPAIR from these moments.

(6) Regular action. I speak as a person with dissociative/addiction problems in the form of constant reading, computer use, porn, etc. The less you avoid reality the easier your reality will be to live in.

(7) Leadership and assertiveness. So critical to do this firmly, but not angrily. (Frame.)

(8) Study in some fashion, relationship skills. As you get older, you just get more set in your ways. Good skills requires daily effort, and periodic studying of things. You will forget things.

(9) Study some Modern parenting books. Fucking up your kid young causes a lot of stress later in life. Don't play whack a mole when they misbehave, recognizing good behavior incentivizes that more than incessant correction. Being an asshole to your kids does not impress your wife, and, years later, your kids will like you in return.

(10) Keep being romantic and pursuing your woman. It never stops, it's a never ending treadmill. Constant vigilance, never rest on your laurels.

(11) Don't use her as a social secretary, servant, or especially a mother figure. If she is bossing you around like your mother did, chances are she doesn't want to have sex with you, or stay married much longer, either. I've seen a couple marriages implode from this from guys who I thought knew better.

(12) Whenever she does something you like, or want her to keep doing, recognize that! Catch her being "good." Zero recognition for the little daily things she does for you breeds resentment and contempt.

(13) Porn will fuck you, and your marriage up. Avoid it, and substitutes, at all costs.

(14) Always stay on top of your social skills. Your wife seeing you do well, and interact in a charismatic fashion with other men and women will enhance her interest in you.

(15) Going to the doctor, physiotherapist, chiropractor does not make you a giant pussy. Stay on top of your health and treat your body with respect. If you have a problem, FIX IT. That is what men do, FIX their own problems, not pretending they aren't there like a fucking pansy.

(16) Stay physical, eat well, avoid gaining excess weight. Women aren't as visual as men are, but they still have EYES. Don't be a fool.

My list of recommended reading:

i. Married Man's Sex Life by Athol Kay (red pill)
ii. Nice Card Mean Card by Athol Kay (red pill lite)
iii. NSFW! Sex God Method by Daniel Rose NSFW! (red pill, and the Most effective book you can ever read, EVER, on how to have sex.)
iv. For His Eyes Only by Shaunti Feldhahn (Christian-lite)
v. For Her Eyes Only by Shaunti Feldhahn (Christian-lite)
vi. What Women Want When they test Men by Bruce Bryans - (red pill) absolutely essential for understanding how to pass tests in a calm fashion.
vii. The Surprising Secrets of Highly Happy Marriages by Shaunti Feldhahn (Christian-lite)
ix. No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover. (red pill lite) There's a strong chance you have some of this in you.
x. Study Empathy. More and more it's becoming critical to study this in some form.
xi. Practical Female Psychology for the Practical Man (red pill)
xii. Women's Infidelity. SUPER red pill.
xiii. Study Charisma. Charisma Myth is a good starter, and Charisma On Command, while pricey, is worth it.

And I speak on this as someone who struggles with many of these things. So, I'm going to call it a night and do some family time with my kids before bed. :D
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This is a good idea. There is a lot of focus on finding a spouse and things of that sort. But, as those of us who have been married for a while know, there is a lot of work to do throughout the relationship: The ride never ends.

As Tolstoy famously wrote: "All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." An extrapolation from this is that, in most cases, marriage does require that one work on oneself and really struggle in order to achieve a harmonious union. I have known some married couples who were truly made for each other and achieve a sort of effortless marriage bliss. But in many (most?) cases, marriage is -- to a greater or lesser extent -- a cross to bear for both sides.
 
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I cannot find any disagreement with Tytalus's post above. I might just add a quote:

“No man should bring children into the world who is unwilling to persevere to the end in their nature and education.” - Plato
 
Christos_NIKA said:
I only recently discovered this woman's channel. She is a so on-point and talks so straight about men and relationships, it's almost bizarre to hear it said. After watching many of her videos, I can't find anything I disagree with yet. Worth checking out, especially for those who are struggling in troubled marriages.

Click to expand...

Nice find. I look forward to checking out these clips.

Do you have a favourite video/s of those you have seen so far?
 
My problem stems from the fact that my wife hid a lot of undesirable beliefs from me early on to snag me.

I told her very early on my political proclivities, red pill beliefs, and religious beliefs. She either bit her tongue or believed them herself.

The biggest thing that pisses me off is her lack of faith. When we started dating, I specifically picked a Lutheran synod that specifically forbad female/gay clergy, abortion, and homosexual weddings.

Nowadays post kids, she has started speaking out about that. She argues like every Christian liberal idiot who doesn't understand that the old testament is Jewish law and refuses to listen to biblical sources. We're not talking nuanced stuff but basic Christianity 101 that almost every non pozzed Christian denomination would agree on.

Thankfully she was indeed chaste when I met her and married her because I felt she would be a good mother.

She (mostly) delivers on that front though she likes to undermine the tough father hand that I provide which infuriates me. When she does that I just let her deal with the kids until she gives up, I laugh, and then come in with the strong arm which I can tell she silently appreciates.

I had aspirations to go to seminary which she initially was excited for but she didn't state that she didn't like the life style change.

She shortly there after became an incredibly miserable pain in the ass. I almost rung up a divorce attorney but instead found a counselor.

That saved my marriage and what unfortunately has helped further is my traveling for work where distance makes the heart grow fonder. Regardless, I resent her for her continued drug use (weed) and how she doesn't speak up when she doesn't like something that has to include us both.

I've contemplated divorce on and off since then but the consequences of this outweigh the benefits. When I was on a trip, I had an opportunity to revert to bad ways but I didn't do it out of immense guilt. I don't think I could realistically have an affair before a divorce and I don't think I could have a divorce because of the vows I made before God.
Or if I did get a divorce, the consequences then would be chasteness till death.

I pray on this often and I figure this is standard marriage pains post kids. Praying and church soothes the anger within so I know Christ is at least listening and grants me the patience I need to navigate this.
 
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the beast1 said:
My problem stems from the fact that my wife hid a lot of undesirable beliefs from me early on to snag me.

I told her very early on my political proclivities, red pill beliefs, and religious beliefs. She either bit her tongue or believed them herself.

The biggest thing that pisses me off is her lack of faith. When we started dating, I specifically picked a Lutheran synod that specifically forbad female/gay clergy, abortion, and homosexual weddings.

Nowadays post kids, she has started speaking out about that. She argues like every Christian liberal idiot who doesn't understand that the old testament is Jewish law and refuses to listen to biblical sources. We're not talking nuanced stuff but basic Christianity 101 that almost every non pozzed Christian denomination would agree on.

Thankfully she was indeed chaste when I met her and married her because I felt she would be a good mother.

She (mostly) delivers on that front though she likes to undermine the tough father hand that I provide which infuriates me. When she does that I just let her deal with the kids until she gives up, I laugh, and then come in with the strong arm which I can tell she silently appreciates.

I had aspirations to go to seminary which she initially was excited for but she didn't state that she didn't like the life style change.

She shortly there after became an incredibly miserable pain in the ass. I almost rung up a divorce attorney but instead found a counselor.

That saved my marriage and what unfortunately has helped further is my traveling for work where distance makes the heart grow fonder. Regardless, I resent her for her continued drug use (weed) and how she doesn't speak up when she doesn't like something that has to include us both.

I've contemplated divorce on and off since then but the consequences of this outweigh the benefits. When I was on a trip, I had an opportunity to revert to bad ways but I didn't do it out of immense guilt. I don't think I could realistically have an affair before a divorce and I don't think I could have a divorce because of the vows I made before God.
Or if I did get a divorce, the consequences then would be chasteness till death.

I pray on this often and I figure this is standard marriage pains post kids. Praying and church soothes the anger within so I know Christ is at least listening and grants me the patience I need to navigate this.
Click to expand...
If only more married women would read Ephesians 5:22-33 and act on it.
 
the beast1 said:
My problem stems from the fact that my wife hid a lot of undesirable beliefs from me early on to snag me.

I told her very early on my political proclivities, red pill beliefs, and religious beliefs. She either bit her tongue or believed them herself.

The biggest thing that pisses me off is her lack of faith. When we started dating, I specifically picked a Lutheran synod that specifically forbad female/gay clergy, abortion, and homosexual weddings.

Nowadays post kids, she has started speaking out about that. She argues like every Christian liberal idiot who doesn't understand that the old testament is Jewish law and refuses to listen to biblical sources. We're not talking nuanced stuff but basic Christianity 101 that almost every non pozzed Christian denomination would agree on.

Thankfully she was indeed chaste when I met her and married her because I felt she would be a good mother.

She (mostly) delivers on that front though she likes to undermine the tough father hand that I provide which infuriates me. When she does that I just let her deal with the kids until she gives up, I laugh, and then come in with the strong arm which I can tell she silently appreciates.

I had aspirations to go to seminary which she initially was excited for but she didn't state that she didn't like the life style change.

She shortly there after became an incredibly miserable pain in the ass. I almost rung up a divorce attorney but instead found a counselor.

That saved my marriage and what unfortunately has helped further is my traveling for work where distance makes the heart grow fonder. Regardless, I resent her for her continued drug use (weed) and how she doesn't speak up when she doesn't like something that has to include us both.

I've contemplated divorce on and off since then but the consequences of this outweigh the benefits. When I was on a trip, I had an opportunity to revert to bad ways but I didn't do it out of immense guilt. I don't think I could realistically have an affair before a divorce and I don't think I could have a divorce because of the vows I made before God.
Or if I did get a divorce, the consequences then would be chasteness till death.

I pray on this often and I figure this is standard marriage pains post kids. Praying and church soothes the anger within so I know Christ is at least listening and grants me the patience I need to navigate this.
Click to expand...
Does your wife by any chance consume TikTok, Instagram, or Netflix? And if she works, does she work with other women who enable bad / non-traditional behavior and live trainwreck lives?

From my own experience, and talking to married friends and family, each day is the world propagandizing their wives to be demonic homewreckers and then the gent has a brief hour or two at the end of his work day to try to undo it (while having far less social proof than the other figureheads pushing her in the opposite direction).

Then the kicker is that when the chick is out in the world all day "playing male", she exhausts what little feminine energy she has left, then upon arriving home needs to go "be horizontal to decompress", takes a gummy edible, then passes out with all the lights on while scrolling on her cell phone and has sweet dreams of whatever the algos decide to blast in her ear from autoplay for hours... so the sleep schedule is also completely messed up, leading her to be more irritable, having to use more weed/edibles, and having to "decompress" (aka run the click/scroll dopamine train) even longer.
 
TooFineAPoint said:
Does your wife by any chance consume TikTok, Instagram, or Netflix? And if she works, does she work with other women who enable bad / non-traditional behavior and live trainwreck lives?

From my own experience, and talking to married friends and family, each day is the world propagandizing their wives to be demonic homewreckers and then the gent has a brief hour or two at the end of his work day to try to undo it (while having far less social proof than the other figureheads pushing her in the opposite direction).

Then the kicker is that when the chick is out in the world all day "playing male", she exhausts what little feminine energy she has left, then upon arriving home needs to go "be horizontal to decompress", takes a gummy edible, then passes out with all the lights on while scrolling on her cell phone and has sweet dreams of whatever the algos decide to blast in her ear from autoplay for hours... so the sleep schedule is also completely messed up, leading her to be more irritable, having to use more weed/edibles, and having to "decompress" (aka run the click/scroll dopamine train) even longer.
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Yup there's Netflix and IG consumption. I've seen some of the shows and her IG feeds and it isn't too far fetched but it definitely doesn't help.
She works remote and her job has her managing a team though it's a female dominated industry and that doesn't particularly help because the women are antinatalist.

But yes, right before bed she smokes weed and watches these shows until about 11pm. For me I'm typically eyes closed and asleep by 10pm. She'll then bitch about being exhausted. Gee, I wonder why.

She complains that the only time I talk to her is when I'm traveling and that I don't when in around. But the truth is, I don't want to talk about it it work when I'm home, just really watch the kids do cute kid stuff.

It is what it is at this point. She is looking for new work because her job treats her like crap.
 
Orthodox priest answers a question on polygamy and why it was allowed in the Old Testament era but is now forbidden. According to him, marriage had a different goal prior and after the new covenant


And many other great personages of the Old Testament had multiple wives and concubines. However, the primary reason for all of this mating was not the gratification of lust, but the desire for descendants. Sexual promiscuity was in no wise condoned by God in Old Testament times any more than He condones it in our own times, But He also condescends to human weaknesses. He allowed such institutions as polygamy because He knew that man was still unable to understand his own original destiny and to live in accordance with it. Marriage in the Old Testament was considered as a temporal contract, which could be dissolved at any time. Nevertheless, the ideal of a true marital relationship was not completely lost, and the Old Testament prophets were concerned about the purity of marriage.. Gradually we see that God condemned polygamous marriages, concubines, and the practice of marrying one's brother's widow. He began to shift the focus of marriage from procreation to a higher, spiritual level.
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With the coming of Christ, marriage no longer had as its primary goal the reproduction of human beings and the continuation of the family line, although procreation was still regarded as an important part of marriage. But Christ had come to the world and brought with Him the proof and guarantee of the resurrection of the dead, therefore giving to Christian marriage a new primary goal - the attainment of eternal life by husband, wife, and all children.
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After some contemplation I came to realize that even if I had come into my marriage free of porn and lust it wouldn't have made a difference in the long run concerning my married sex life. Part of what made the red pill popular with blue pill males was in how it acknowledged that women also have sexual lust. My wife's own lust wasn't dealt with before she met me and she didn't deal with it at all during our marriage. Without providing unnecessary details, our sex life dissolved and ended and I had always thought it was my own fault, that I hadn't pursued her enough, hadn't loved her enough. But I don't believe it would have mattered because she was even more damaged by her lusts for the typical degenerate type of men that is often memed about by incels.

Women also confuse lust for love and I think if a woman's sex drive disappears it's just as concerning as if a man turns into a coomer and develops erectile dysfunction. If a woman can't give herself to her husband or feels no desire for him because he isn't jacked or covered with tattoos or has a chiseled jawline then that's no different than a man who can't get it up for his wife because she doesn't have abnormally perky breasts or exaggerated shapely buttocks and fake lips, etc.

If I had a point it would be this: men who seek a good long-term satisfaction in marriage absolutely must figure out if their future wife or existing wife is struggling with lust. Because if a marriage develops problems in the bedroom this spills over into everything else and then she feels like she isn't in love anymore or can't deal with her partner and then destroys what God has brought together because of her unrepented sin.
 
Wutang said:
Orthodox priest answers a question on polygamy and why it was allowed in the Old Testament era but is now forbidden. According to him, marriage had a different goal prior and after the new covenant

Click to expand...

He seems to suggest that by the time Christ came the idea of be fruitful and multiply is essentially vestigial, which actually fits with what we see, as many things in the Old Testament are similar and don't make much sense in light of the much higher calling of Christ and his advanced teachings. One reason this makes some sense is that, in accordance to what Fr. is teaching, you don't need to "live forever" through your line, as those ancient people perhaps thought (or modern day "jews" might think). It also fits with the Orthodox view that marriage is just a form, a way of living in this world that can lead to your salvation. I think the problem we have with this in the modern day is that we see how things used to be, and they aren't anywhere near that any longer, so monk/single living and family or marriage currently (in the developed world but it's expanding) both seem to be unrealistic concepts for the materialized/atomized person. It could be that these population things don't matter as much as we think they do, as I've pointed out (the 20th century was allowed after all, and all its horrors) ... but it's hard to see family formation as not a proper or important phase of life, either.

thinkreadwritecode said:
Women also confuse lust for love and I think if a woman's sex drive disappears it's just as concerning as if a man turns into a coomer and develops erectile dysfunction. If a woman can't give herself to her husband or feels no desire for him because he isn't jacked or covered with tattoos or has a chiseled jawline then that's no different than a man who can't get it up for his wife because she doesn't have abnormally perky breasts or exaggerated shapely buttocks and fake lips, etc.
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You make good points, and few focus on the truth overall due to our innate biological instincts to just ... blame men. Women's hypergamy and instinct for chaos is so high, if they aren't restricted, we see exactly what we are experiencing right now. Of this (to me) there is no doubt any longer. That's why I always found the defense of women as a group, in some egalitarian sense on other threads, as so dangerous because it's obviously silly and clearly disproven. And I'm not attacking them, I'm just stating what we know will happen if things aren't very clear, shaped, and structured for their own good. I really don't think it's "lust" per se for the woman, so much as it is just instinct for hypergamy and progeny selection. That's why sampling is so dangerous for them (Eve archetype). For a man, lust is just wayward activity that distracts his attention from his family, but doesn't necessarily ruin his marriage or the family in itself. For women, once she strays, the entire situation is blown up and she doesn't want anything to do with that family (the man as head) any longer. There's a huge difference.
 
For both men and women, the concept of maintaining "custody of the eyes" is very important. If we do not proactively practice this approach, our lusts will be constantly fed: by advertising, by tv and movies, by the way people dress on the street, etc. Unless you live in the country AND do not consume tv, Internet video and similar content, then you have to be engaged in a nearly constant battle to avoid exposing yourself to images that will stir the passions. We tend to think of this as a man's problem. But reading thinkreadwritecode's post above, I'm reminded that women are also subject to it, and the onslaught and sheer volume of salacious content that everyone is exposed to does take its toll.

In a truly traditional life, one's wife (or husband) may well have been the only person of the opposite sex one saw naked almost ever. When you look at old societies, and the average number of children that a couple would usually produce, clearly there was very rarely any issue of "performance", or even of sexual attraction. In my view, the lack of excessive stimulation outside of the marriage context is a major factor that made this possible.
 
Blade Runner said:
He seems to suggest that by the time Christ came the idea of be fruitful and multiply is essentially vestigial, which actually fits with what we see, as many things in the Old Testament are similar and don't make much sense in light of the much higher calling of Christ and his advanced teachings. One reason this makes some sense is that, in accordance to what Fr. is teaching, you don't need to "live forever" through your line,
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There is a danger in taking this "higher calling" to the extreme, as we saw in the USA with the Shaker (Shaking Quakers) movement, which is basically extinct at this point. They lived communal lives, completely celibate, and focused on spiritual and Biblical living. They only grew their numbers through converts, as they couldn't have children. They tried adoption in their later years, but that became blocked by the government.
 
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