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Lounge of The Russian-Ukrainian War

With the current generation of young men, you just won't be able to mobilise a general army like you were able to do in world war 2.

I work with this generation of 'men' a lot and they just en masse would refuse to go I think. They wouldn't go because they don't believe in dying for Globohomo or anything but I think they would refuse to go because they are just so self involved. They have no concept of doing something for the greater good.
 
Ukraine can draft as many men as they want, and it won't change anything on its own. Sure, they can plug the holes in the front with meat, but to regain combat capabilities they'll need much more than just the meat: training, equipment, and most importantly a surplus of munitions - and at the moment there's no spare military-industrial capability in the west. The latest military aid package provides some ammo from hand to mouth but not enough for the ukrainians to save and accumulate it for any offensive operations. Most of that money will go for new contracts which won't be fulfilled anytime soon. So You'll need to push this 3-5 months timeframe further.

People have been saying that about both sides this entire war. That both sides will run out of missiles or whatever. It's all nonsense so far, because there is plenty of industrial output worldwide.

The USA is buying drones from China, lol, to send to Ukraine. There is South Korea producing for the west and North Korea producing for the east.

I've yet to see a single shred of evidence that industrial output is a limiting factor. No one accounts for the fact that global production levels are higher than they've ever been.


The drone war in Ukraine is constantly evolving and forcing both sides to innovate quickly. But for Ukraine, a key partner is having trouble keeping up and letting rivals fill the void.

American-made drones haven't excelled on the battlefield, prompting Ukraine to turn to buying Chinese-made drones.
 
People have been saying that about both sides this entire war. That both sides will run out of missiles or whatever. It's all nonsense so far, because there is plenty of industrial output worldwide.

The USA is buying drones from China, lol, to send to Ukraine. There is South Korea producing for the west and North Korea producing for the east.

I've yet to see a single shred of evidence that industrial output is a limiting factor. No one accounts for the fact that global production levels are higher than they've ever been.


Ukraine has already lost the war. Now it's just a question of how much territory they will be able to retain after Russia forces them to capitulate. Most likely that'll take place after the Biden administration gets relegated to the dustbin of history. In the interim the U.S. uniparty and Eurocrats are going to throw the kitchensink into saving face and prolonging the conflict until after election season.
 
Ukraine has already lost the war. Now it's just a question of how much territory they will be able to retain after Russia forces them to capitulate. Most likely that'll take place after the Biden administration gets relegated to the dustbin of history. In the interim the U.S. uniparty and Eurocrats are going to throw the kitchensink into saving face and prolonging the conflict until after election season.
But what will happen in the event that Biden 'wins' again?
 
People have been saying that about both sides this entire war. That both sides will run out of missiles or whatever. It's all nonsense so far, because there is plenty of industrial output worldwide.

The USA is buying drones from China, lol, to send to Ukraine. There is South Korea producing for the west and North Korea producing for the east.

I've yet to see a single shred of evidence that industrial output is a limiting factor. No one accounts for the fact that global production levels are higher than they've ever been.


Didn't say that they will completely run out of ammo - I said, that with the current industrial output it's impossible for ukraine to accumulate ammunition for any future offensive operations (definitely not in a 3-5 month timeframe). The daily ammo consumption varies greatly between defense and offense - last year during the summer of the great ukrainian counteroffensive, Russia was using around 2k artillery shells/day (not counting other munitions such as mortar shells, rocket artillery, etc.), but in the fall, when they started the Avdiivka operation, that number went up to 10k shells/day. The US currently produces 30k artillery shells/month.

"The U.S. defense industrial base has more than doubled its output of 155 mm artillery ammunition since December 2022. U.S. companies are currently producing about 30,000 shells a month, and the Army hopes to increase that tally to 60,000 rounds per month by September 2024, and to 100,000 rounds per month by the end of 2025." - Foreign Policy.

And we have the largest military-industrial complex in the west, sure we should account for other nations: Brits, Koreans, Czehs, Poles, Germans, etc. But at the same time, we need to remember that ukraine doesn't receive 100% of artillery shells manufactured in the western aligned world - there are other customers (such as Israel, but its not the only one) and our militaries need ammo for both: training and to replenish depleted stocks.
Meanwhile Russia is already manufacturing 250k artillery shells/month.

"Russia is producing about 250,000 artillery munitions per month, or about 3 million a year, according to NATO intelligence estimates of Russian defense production shared with CNN, as well as sources familiar with Western efforts to arm Ukraine. Collectively, the US and Europe have the capacity to generate only about 1.2 million munitions annually to send to Kyiv, a senior European intelligence official told CNN." - CNN.

And this is just Russia alone, when You add munitions imported from Iran and North Korea, the gap becomes even greater. According to Boris Pistorius - German minister of defense - Russia is making enough munitions, not only for their operations in ukraine, but to stockpile them for a possible, future confrontation with NATO.

"Russia is already producing more arms and military equipment than it needs for its war against Ukraine, and is filling its weapons warehouses, German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said, as reported by the German television channel n-tv on April 25.
Despite Western efforts to undermine Russia's industrial and military output, the country is only increasing its investment into arms production, allocating a record portion of its 2024 federal budget for military needs.
As Russia switches into a war economy mode, "a large part or part of what is newly produced no longer goes to the front, but ends up in warehouses," Pistorius said on air of the ARD program Maischberger."
- Kiev Independent.

As You can see, without an increase in the western military-industrial output, it will be difficult for ukraine to save up enough ammunition to launch an offensive - they would have to keep the daily consumption as low as possible despite the renewed US supplies. And it ain't that easy to increase the military production: there's only one plant - the Scranton Army Ammunition Plant - capable of making artillery shells in the US, they can work 24/7, in 3 shifts, and they still won't be able to catch up to the Russians. Not without building new ammo plants. And while there are plans to build new weapons factories, both here and in Europe, they won't be built overnight. This is something that even ukrainians themselves have been forced to acknowledge.

"Kuleba said the west needed to increase arms production, as Ukraine had, because it had been outpaced by Russia. Russia is out-shelling Ukraine by a ratio of about 10 to one, while Ukraine is running short of air defences.
“When I see what Russia achieved in building up its defence industrial base in two years of the war and what the west has achieved, I think something is wrong on the part of the west,” Kuleba said."
- ukrainian foreign minister for the Guardian.

And those are just artillery shells we're talking about, the overmatch of Russian industry becomes even greater when it comes to other weapon systems, partly because we closed down many of our production lines completely (we are sending Bradleys but we're not making new ones anymore) and laid off skilled workers, and partly because of the for-profit nature of private, publicly traded, weapon manufacturers.
So, as I said before, ukraine needs time - much more time than just 3-5 months - to regain their combat potential.
 
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So, as I said before, ukraine needs time - much more time than just 3-5 months - to regain their combat potential.

I don't believe Ukraine will regain combat potential in 3-5 months, I think they will regain enough ammo and weapons to slow down the Russian advance back to crawl speeds.

Right now Ukraine is in a weak position, until the next batch of fresh troops arrive. That is all I am saying. They won't be going on any offensives for the rest of this year, easily, maybe not until 2026.

Right now Team Ukraine has to focus on trying not to lose anything beyond the Dnieper River. It doesn't look like they will be able to do much other than mine and shell the advancing Russian tide due to manpower issues.

But since this war is going to last decades, the next year of Russian advances will probably be just one of many ebbs and flows to the war. Without a doubt though, the next 3-5 months will be among the easiest for Russia so if they do not take advantage then they are not playing to win.
 
Well according to western media folks, Putin has no intention of stopping at the Dnieper. Part of the problem with this whole conflict is there are two lines of thought, one that is based in reality and one that is not. One side is playing by a form of rules with a gentleman's agreement and the other side is not.

So honestly I would say you are probably both correct. Yes, the war will continue to grind slowly after Russian has acquired all of the buffer zone/territory it needs, but they will probably just switch to a defensive posture and heavily fortify the border. If the west decides to throw troops against said wall, the war will probably escalate but if not, it will probably just end in a "stalemate" like East & West Germany or N & S Korea. The west will blather on about how "Putin has been stopped!" (Remember, he wants all of Europe right?) and memory hole all mentions of regaining territory. They will declare themselves the winners and pat each other on the back, all while slipping off to tropical islands to enjoy their $$$ skimmed off the top of these massive aid packages.
 
Biden then has to deal with the collapse of Project Ukraine. It is not certain that Ukraine will even hold until the election, a sudden collapse could happen on Biden's watch, which would be devastating.
Devastating to whom? Most normies are gonna be glued to the .gov vs student protesters goings on.
 
Didn't say that they will completely run out of ammo - I said, that with the current industrial output it's impossible for ukraine to accumulate ammunition for any future offensive operations (definitely not in a 3-5 month timeframe). The daily ammo consumption varies greatly between defense and offense - last year during the summer of the great ukrainian counteroffensive, Russia was using around 2k artillery shells/day (not counting other munitions such as mortar shells, rocket artillery, etc.), but in the fall, when they started the Avdiivka operation, that number went up to 10k shells/day. The US currently produces 30k artillery shells/month.

"The U.S. defense industrial base has more than doubled its output of 155 mm artillery ammunition since December 2022. U.S. companies are currently producing about 30,000 shells a month, and the Army hopes to increase that tally to 60,000 rounds per month by September 2024, and to 100,000 rounds per month by the end of 2025." - Foreign Policy.

And we have the largest military-industrial complex in the west, sure we should account for other nations: Brits, Koreans, Czehs, Poles, Germans, etc. But at the same time, we need to remember that ukraine doesn't receive 100% of artillery shells manufactured in the western aligned world - there are other customers (such as Israel, but its not the only one) and our militaries need ammo for both: training and to replenish depleted stocks.
Meanwhile Russia is already manufacturing 250k artillery shells/month.

"Russia is producing about 250,000 artillery munitions per month, or about 3 million a year, according to NATO intelligence estimates of Russian defense production shared with CNN, as well as sources familiar with Western efforts to arm Ukraine. Collectively, the US and Europe have the capacity to generate only about 1.2 million munitions annually to send to Kyiv, a senior European intelligence official told CNN." - CNN.

And this is just Russia alone, when You add munitions imported from Iran and North Korea, the gap becomes even greater. According to Boris Pistorius - German minister of defense - Russia is making enough munitions, not only for their operations in ukraine, but to stockpile them for a possible, future confrontation with NATO.

"Russia is already producing more arms and military equipment than it needs for its war against Ukraine, and is filling its weapons warehouses, German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said, as reported by the German television channel n-tv on April 25.
Despite Western efforts to undermine Russia's industrial and military output, the country is only increasing its investment into arms production, allocating a record portion of its 2024 federal budget for military needs.
As Russia switches into a war economy mode, "a large part or part of what is newly produced no longer goes to the front, but ends up in warehouses," Pistorius said on air of the ARD program Maischberger."
- Kiev Independent.

As You can see, without an increase in the western military-industrial output, it will be difficult for ukraine to save up enough ammunition to launch an offensive - they would have to keep the daily consumption as low as possible despite the renewed US supplies. And it ain't that easy to increase the military production: there's only one plant - the Scranton Army Ammunition Plant - capable of making artillery shells in the US, they can work 24/7, in 3 shifts, and they still won't be able to catch up to the Russians. Not without building new ammo plants. And while there are plans to build new weapons factories, both here and in Europe, they won't be built overnight. This is something that even ukrainians themselves have been forced to acknowledge.

"Kuleba said the west needed to increase arms production, as Ukraine had, because it had been outpaced by Russia. Russia is out-shelling Ukraine by a ratio of about 10 to one, while Ukraine is running short of air defences.
“When I see what Russia achieved in building up its defence industrial base in two years of the war and what the west has achieved, I think something is wrong on the part of the west,” Kuleba said."
- ukrainian foreign minister for the Guardian.

And those are just artillery shells we're talking about, the overmatch of Russian industry becomes even greater when it comes to other weapon systems, partly because we closed down many of our production lines completely (we are sending Bradleys but we're not making new ones anymore) and laid off skilled workers, and partly because of the for-profit nature of private, publicly traded, weapon manufacturers.
So, as I said before, ukraine needs time - much more time than just 3-5 months - to regain their combat potential.
This is what every serious commentator has been laying out for the last two years. It comes down to simple math, industrial capacity and manpower with a will to fight.

Because of how corrupt countries are run, many numbers are hidden away conveniently and it's often far too late to stem the tide once the truth is revealed. The Ukraine has being bled blue since day one, but because of lying about the numbers, such as amount of deaths, number of shells and true cost of doing business, a lot of folks are in for a rude awakening as the truth comes out. Of course, they can still do a lot of damage on the way out but it's reaching critical mass. Something has to give, and it currently looks like that something is the front line.
 
Curious to know y'all's thoughts about what happens with the Ukraine conflict if Trump 'wins' the election. Trump rings up Putin and tells him to stop it??

(I write 'win' for both Biden and Trump because at this point, I'm not sure if any of it is real.)

Trump has backpedaled on Ukraine, and doubled down on the vaccines, he's been in full boomercon mode the last few months.


Samseau wrote:
I don't believe Ukraine will regain combat potential in 3-5 months, I think they will regain enough ammo and weapons to slow down the Russian advance back to crawl speeds.

Right now Ukraine is in a weak position, until the next batch of fresh troops arrive. That is all I am saying. They won't be going on any offensives for the rest of this year, easily, maybe not until 2026.

Right now Team Ukraine has to focus on trying not to lose anything beyond the Dnieper River. It doesn't look like they will be able to do much other than mine and shell the advancing Russian tide due to manpower issues.

But since this war is going to last decades, the next year of Russian advances will probably be just one of many ebbs and flows to the war. Without a doubt though, the next 3-5 months will be among the easiest for Russia so if they do not take advantage then they are not playing to win.

Ukraine's ammo position is worse than it looks, because in the last year they've mostly relied on ammo stockpiles from countries like Pakistan, S. Korea, Egypt, Morocco, etc. These countries have built up their inventories over several decades, and are unable to replenish them in the short or even medium term, we are talking 5+ years here. By then it will be all over.


Right now Team Ukraine has to focus on trying not to lose anything beyond the Dnieper River. It doesn't look like they will be able to do much other than mine and shell the advancing Russian tide due to manpower issues.

Kiev is on the Dniepr, if the Russians take it, it's GG. The Ukies would spend most of their remaining forces to defend it. If the Russians get close to Kiev, they would destroy all the bridges, leaving the Ukrainians on the left bank of Kiev without supplies, an untenable position.
 

Biden Looks To Prevent Future President From Ending Ukraine War With 10-Year Agreement​


"We are discussing the specific foundations of our security and cooperation. We are also working on fixing specific levels of support for this year and the next 10 years."

He indicated it will likely include agreements on long-term support centering on military hardware and joint arms production, as well as continuing reconstruction aid. "The agreement should be truly exemplary and reflect the strength of American leadership," Zelensky added.

But ultimately a key purpose in locking such a long-term deal in would be to keep it immune from potential interference by a future T
rump administration
.

Below is what The Wall Street Journal spelled out last year:


We and others have previously underscored that NATO and G7 countries are desperately trying to "Trump-proof" future aid to Ukraine and the effort to counter Russia.
Might as well just join the Union. It's already a welfare state and soon to be a bound defense obligation.

Medvedev or another Russian high up recently had a comment along the lines of "in May Zelensky becomes illegal, so he better expect anything" (referring to the expiration of his term, and further performance in the Ukraine Presidency after that date will be an illegitimate gov't).

That aligns with some prior comments from Putin wherein he was adamant about foreigners staying out of Ukraine and allowing them to manage their own gov't according to their constitution. He had some verbiage that hinted that an un-constitutional Ukraine gov't wouldn't be treated with kid gloves. Maybe he'll start to truly target "decision making centers" after that day.

The US wants Ukraine to stay committed to their suicide letter. Ukraine needs to have the US's support if they want to continue the facade of joining NATO/EU. Problem is, Z is soon an illegit leader - damaging any treaties signed after his exp. date.

It all sounds bizarre, but very Putinesque in his manner of laying out legal basis.
 
Currently in the U.S. there is a single powder mill, Olin in Florida. A huge amount of gunpowder powder consumed in the U.S comes from a plant in Australia and the St. Marks plant in Canada. Environmental regs surrounding explosives production in the U.S. are nuts which is one of the main reasons no one has stood up a new mill. That and high demand plus limited supply means powder companies can charge whatever they want. Reloading powder jumped 20% last month. A big indicator that these proxy wars will expand is when new powder mills are opened in the U.S. along with at least one new artillery shell factory. Right now GloHo is just muddling by with the facilities left over from the Cold War.
 
I don't trust Trump on any issue. All personal issues aside (and there are many), he is easily manipulated by appealing to his ego. The few areas where I feel slightly less concerned are cases where he has some personal interest in the issue (he apparently likes Putin and Kim Jong Un) so perhaps he wouldn't sign off on some insane escalation against either of them. But I still think he probably would if pressured hard enough by a Jew. Anyway, the US is working on making a 10 year long future pact with Ukraine.



According to Southfront, Ukraine had over 1,000 losses April 29.

  • Russian forces eliminated 40 servicemen, two armoured fighting vehicles, and three motor vehicles in the Kupyansk area;
  • Russian forces eliminated 395 servicemen, three tanks, four armoured vehicles, two motor vehicles, one M198, one D-30 howitzer in the Donetsk area;
  • Russian forces eliminated 370 servicemen, two armoured personnel carriers, and four motor vehicles in the Avdeevka area;
  • Russian forces eliminated 125 servicemen, three pickup trucks, one M777 howitzer, two Msta-B howitzers in the Southern Donetsk area;
  • Russian forces eliminated 45 servicemen, two motor vehicles, and one Anklav-N electronic warfare station in Kherson region;
  • Up to 370 servicemen, two armoured personnel carriers, and four motor vehicles were destroyed in the Avdeevka area
That is unsustainable. Ukraine supposedly had around a million armed forces; losing a thousand a day takes almost a third of them out in a year. An army collapses before that happens. Ukraine has already lost tens of thousands, and remember a good portion of troops aren't front line soldiers but armament guys, logistics, medics, military police, recruiters, trainers, staff, etc. If you lose a third of your army you essentially have zero fighting units left.
------------------------------------------
Kyles%20Memorial%20Revised.png

Finally,
There is a story that I've been rather puzzled and upset about. If you're aware of the history of Rhodesia, it was one of the last European societies in Africa who held out against communists in the Rhodesian Bush War. The Rhodesian Light Infantry and its Selous Scouts are legendary fighters, and were probably the #1 group featured in Soldier of Fortune magazine over the years. They developed new and effective Fireforce fighting techniques, squadrons of former enemy that they turned to their side, and integrated black/white fighting forces, and achieved superior kill ratios of any modern army. The ridiculous loss of the country due to mostly British but also American evil meant the end of a successful and prosperous multicultural nation and led to the violent regime of Robert Mugabe and the death of over a million people, along with the outright destruction of a once prosperous nation, replaced with a failed state issuing trillion dollar notes.

There was a Canadian army lad called Kyle Porter who became so enamored with Rhodesia and its history that he opened a store selling Rhodesian army reproductions, clothing, flags, and kits. He named it FireForce Ventures, after the military tactic of vertical envelopment of the same name, invented by the Rhodesian military.


Exactly one year ago, this 27 year old founder of the Rhodesian historical company died fighting FOR UKRAINE, killed in a Russian artillery bombardment.

I cannot understand how a man who knows and understands the history of Rhodesia, and is fascinated by them to the point that he opens an entire store to its glorious memory, can go volunteer to fight for Zog in a pointless mission. This has upset and mostly confused me for most of the past day.


Kyle Ronald Porter was one of the Fireforce Ventures Corporation's original founders. He was killed in action in the vicinity of Bakhmut as an attached LSSG member of the 92nd Mechanized Brigade of the Ukrainian Ground Forces on 26 April 2023. He had been engaged in sustained combat in Ukraine since December 2022.

WTF, man.
W
T
F
 
I don't believe Ukraine will regain combat potential in 3-5 months, I think they will regain enough ammo and weapons to slow down the Russian advance back to crawl speeds.

Right now Ukraine is in a weak position, until the next batch of fresh troops arrive. That is all I am saying. They won't be going on any offensives for the rest of this year, easily, maybe not until 2026.

Right now Team Ukraine has to focus on trying not to lose anything beyond the Dnieper River. It doesn't look like they will be able to do much other than mine and shell the advancing Russian tide due to manpower issues.

But since this war is going to last decades, the next year of Russian advances will probably be just one of many ebbs and flows to the war. Without a doubt though, the next 3-5 months will be among the easiest for Russia so if they do not take advantage then they are not playing to win.

The decisive factor of the Russian offensive will be the electronic warfare equipment.
Right now Russia has, probably, the best EW umbrella in the world, just days ago Pentagon was forced to admit that another wunderwaffe - this time the GLSDB (HIMARS launched glide bombs) - failed to deliver, because of Russian jamming.
But Russian troops will have to leave this protective umbrella to advance, and they will become targets of drone attacks. To deal with this, they will have to implement electronic warfare equipment on the platoon, and preferably even on the squad level - this would mean a jammer on every single vehicle.
Without it Russian troops won't be able to gain momentum, and the offensive will have to pause regularly to repair damaged vehicles, and won't be able to push the front far enough.
 
Curious to know y'all's thoughts about what happens with the Ukraine conflict if Trump 'wins' the election. Trump rings up Putin and tells him to stop it??

(I write 'win' for both Biden and Trump because at this point, I'm not sure if any of it is real.)

I don't trust Trump on any issue. All personal issues aside (and there are many), he is easily manipulated by appealing to his ego. The few areas where I feel slightly less concerned are cases where he has some personal interest in the issue (he apparently likes Putin and Kim Jong Un) so perhaps he wouldn't sign off on some insane escalation against either of them. But I still think he probably would if pressured hard enough by a Jew. Anyway, the US is working on making a 10 year long future pact with Ukraine.

I don't expect any major policy change from Trump. Even if he genuinely opposes this war, he might be left without any choice. We can already see the attampts to make long term, "Trimp-proof" commitments:


Biden Looks To Prevent Future President From Ending Ukraine War With 10-Year Agreement​


"We are discussing the specific foundations of our security and cooperation. We are also working on fixing specific levels of support for this year and the next 10 years."
He indicated it will likely include agreements on long-term support centering on military hardware and joint arms production, as well as continuing reconstruction aid. "The agreement should be truly exemplary and reflect the strength of American leadership," Zelensky added.
But ultimately a key purpose in locking such a long-term deal in would be to keep it immune from potential interference by a future Trump administration.
Below is what The Wall Street Journal spelled out last year:
We and others have previously underscored that NATO and G7 countries are desperately trying to "Trump-proof" future aid to Ukraine and the effort to counter Russia.
And if this approach doesn't work, we should expect another entrapment similar to the Russian collusion hoax of Trump's first term. Back then he was forced to change his Russia policy from rapprochement to containment (Nord Stream sanctions, military aid for ukraine). So I won't be surprised if this happens again. He might try to withdraw American military "advisors" from ukraine, and limit American ISTAR activities over the Black Sea, but then again we've already seen DoD officials lying to Trump about the US military presence in Syria.
 
I'm pretty sure the next Congress is going to be very Democrat since half of the current Republicans aren't worth a damn.

Trump could easily be looking at a Congress that is 2/3s Democrat. If Trump doesn't toe the line on Russia he'll be impeached, and so will his VP. The next Speaker of the House is probably going to be President.

America is toast. It's being sucked dry to run wars all over the world. Full steam ahead to WW3 and nothing the people say will matter. Unless there is a revolution, this doesn't stop.
 
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