Lounge of The Russian-Ukrainian War

[Droughtmeat]

I think you both have valid points. Though, personally, I doubt the Ukrainians and Poles would habe issues that, say, Kosovo Albanians and Serbs would have, were they to officially reunite.

My concern as a Pole in their situation would be having 10 million new people while my own population is only roughly 35 million.

Though Ukrainians would surely accept the great living conditions, there would still be separatist ideology and, on the other hand, more people from the actual Ukrainian state and newly formed Russian part would want to join Poland too.

That said, I have no idea how badly Poland wants that land back and to what extent they'd be willing to accept some of the potential negative consequences of a polish expansion.

 

[magoo]

Trump's team mulls postponing Ukraine's NATO membership for at least 20 years, WSJ reports

One idea within U.S. President-elect Donald Trump's team for ending Russia's war involves delaying Kyiv's NATO membership for at least 20 years in exchange for continued arms supplies, the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) reported on Nov. 6, citing three sources close to Trump.

kyivindependent.com

Wall Street Journal: Trump's team is discussing a new plan to end the conflict in Ukraine, which proposes:

- freezing hostilities;

- securing about 20% of the occupied territories for Russia and forcing Ukraine to refuse to join NATO for at least 20 years;

-The US, in turn, will continue to supply Ukraine with weapons to "contain" Russia. A demilitarized zone of 1,200 km will also be created.

 

[Pointy Elbows]

Trump's team mulls postponing Ukraine's NATO membership for at least 20 years, WSJ reports

One idea within U.S. President-elect Donald Trump's team for ending Russia's war involves delaying Kyiv's NATO membership for at least 20 years in exchange for continued arms supplies, the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) reported on Nov. 6, citing three sources close to Trump.

kyivindependent.com

Wall Street Journal: Trump's team is discussing a new plan to end the conflict in Ukraine, which proposes:

- freezing hostilities;

- securing about 20% of the occupied territories for Russia and forcing Ukraine to refuse to join NATO for at least 20 years;

-The US, in turn, will continue to supply Ukraine with weapons to "contain" Russia. A demilitarized zone of 1,200 km will also be created.

Let the negotiations begin. Basically, this is a Minsk III offering. I doubt Putin will accept it, but it is time to break bread and talk. Trump can prevail, so long as he doesn't do anything rash or select subversive neocon types. May cool heads and steady hands prevail. The world really could use a long-thinking statesman from the West. Trump's SecState and security appointees are critical. Can't screw those up.

 

[Caduceus]

Trump's team mulls postponing Ukraine's NATO membership for at least 20 years, WSJ reports

One idea within U.S. President-elect Donald Trump's team for ending Russia's war involves delaying Kyiv's NATO membership for at least 20 years in exchange for continued arms supplies, the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) reported on Nov. 6, citing three sources close to Trump.

kyivindependent.com

Wall Street Journal: Trump's team is discussing a new plan to end the conflict in Ukraine, which proposes:

- freezing hostilities;

- securing about 20% of the occupied territories for Russia and forcing Ukraine to refuse to join NATO for at least 20 years;

-The US, in turn, will continue to supply Ukraine with weapons to "contain" Russia. A demilitarized zone of 1,200 km will also be created.

This will be Putin's answer to that lousy proposal

 

[homersheineken]

I've said this before....the most permanent and secure solution is to carve up (partition) Ukraine like a thanksgiving turkey into different pieces adding each piece to a neighbouring country, with a cultural and linguistic autonomy guaranteed, or leaving a small rump state of Ukraine in the middle. That way everyone wins.


Examples

I don't see the Israel portion listed?

 

[analyst_green]

I dunno man...those Ukrainians who become part of Poland would immediately have higher wages and as new EU citizens immediate access to live and work anywhere in the EU, as well as the "reassurance" of living in a "safe" NATO country. Provided they can keep their culture and language in their areas, not sure why they would be hostile to becoming part of Poland.

European states with large ethnic minorities do not have a good track record. Serbs, Bosniaks, and Croats were very happy to live in the same country and play basketball together... Until they weren't. Especially when the money runs out and the good times end, things heat up quickly.

Only a few ethnically mixed states remain in Europe, like Belgium, Spain, and North Macedonia. None of these is a shining beacon of ethnic harmony.

 

[Caduceus]

 

[Pointy Elbows]

 

[Caduceus]

Trump apparently had a phone call today with the "Ukrainian" midget emperor (((Zelenski))) with Elon Musk participating.

 

[Cooper]

Russian gold reserves almost doubled in the last 2 years.

 

[Caduceus]

 

[dicknixon72]

Heavy Reagan/Iran Hostages vibes coming from Putin on this. I like it. Strength attracts strength and Putin is clearly willing to discuss terms with someone who is at the very least interested in a non-partisan, emotionless, and anodyne 'deal' versus shoving culture and beliefs down another nation's throat via a proxy like Ukraine like Nuland, Blinken, et al have been orchestrating.

I also believe Putin and Trump share this at heart - they want people to stop dying.

I feel this heavily ever since Trump resisted the urging of his circle to attack Iranian radar installations after we lost that Global Hawk. I believe he did not want people who he viewed as innocent soldiers - different than our own only in uniform - to needlessly die for a robot plane.

 

[homersheineken]

False.

As Obama showed, you can only win the Nobel Peace prize by increasing war; specifically bombing brown people, especially their children.

 

[Caduceus]

 

[Caduceus]

 

[Labienus]

I think many people are about to be disappointed by Trump (again).

He's probably going to hire a bunch of neocons once again. Names like Pompeo and Brian Hook are being thrown around for his potential picks for Secretary of State.

Trump thinks he can sit down with Putin and magically convince him to freeze the conflict. Not going to happen. This war will end once the attrition has been fully accomplished and the Ukrainians have no more men to send to the meat grinder or the Ukrainian army decides to stop fighting. We're not there yet, but it is going to happen eventually.

 

[Caduceus]

Trump thinks he can sit down with Putin and magically convince him to freeze the conflict. Not going to happen. This war will end once the attrition has been fully accomplished and the Ukrainians have no more men to send to the meat grinder or the Ukrainian army decides to stop fighting. We're not there yet, but it is going to happen eventually.

Without american money, weapons and support, the entire Ukrainian armed forces will collapse in less than a week.

 

[Labienus]

Without american money, weapons and support, the entire Ukrainian armed forces will collapse in less than a week.

Mike Pompeo's plan is to give Ukraine another $500 billion.

Trump has already said that if Russia refuses his plan that he will flood Ukraine with money and weapons. He might resort to the Pompeo plan if his plan A (charm Putin with his irresistible deal making ability) fails.

The problem for him is that it's an empty threat as far as weapons are concerned. They can send Strykers and Bradleys, but as far as missiles, air defense, and shells, they are tapped out unless they want to use the US' critical strategic weapons reserves.

Cutting all aid to Ukraine would indeed lead Ukraine to collapse quickly, but I doubt Trump wants such debacle on his hands (think of the Afghanistan debacle but ten times worse).

People forget Trump actually helped Mike Johnson get the last huge Ukraine aid bill through congress.

 

[Giordano Bruno]

I think many people are about to be disappointed by Trump (again).

He's probably going to hire a bunch of neocons once again. Names like Pompeo and Brian Hook are being thrown around for his potential picks for Secretary of State.

Unlikely. He admitted in his Joe Rogan interview that he made a lot of mistakes hiring people last time, and that he intends to do better this time.

I'd also note that he's aligned himself with people like Vance and RFK, people who are very much not Neocons.

 

[Labienus]

Unlikely. He admitted in his Joe Rogan interview that he made a lot of mistakes hiring people last time, and that he intends to do better this time.

I'd also note that he's aligned himself with people like Vance and RFK, people who are very much not Neocons.

Trump talks a lot, but talk is cheap.

His campaign received $100 million from Miriam Adelson. Brian Hook is aligned with Adelson's faction and its foreign policy goals (Israel first, maximum pressure on Iran), plus is a hardliner on Ukraine.

See below:

Pro-Israel leaders encouraged by Brian Hook’s role on State Department transition team

Hook helped oversee Trump’s muscular pressure campaign against Iran

jewishinsider.com