Lifter's Lounge
- Thread starter Hannibal
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I've been introduced to the world of super-sets, so far I'm really loving it. Pushes you hard, and I feel like while I'm lifting weight, I'm getting cardio in there too. Any one else doing them?
I was in the gym 6-7 days per week, but at 49, my body can't handle that much training. I have been overtraining.
Has anyone tried more of the Mike Mentzer style of training, 1 max set to true failure and only spending 30 minutes in the gym?
I'm considering finally dropping squats and deadlifts and just being happy with being in better shape than 99% of my peers.
Has anyone tried more of the Mike Mentzer style of training, 1 max set to true failure and only spending 30 minutes in the gym?
I'm considering finally dropping squats and deadlifts and just being happy with being in better shape than 99% of my peers.
Mike Mentzer just showed up in my suggested videos a couple of months ago so I did some research and am considering his Heavy Duty program for my next lifting cycle. I too would definitely be interested in anyone's thoughts who has done his programming.
My current program is per week:
- 3x lift (1.5 - 2 hrs per session; Day 1 Max strength, Day 2 Hypertrophy, Day 3 Power)
- 1x 30lb ruck (30 - 45 mins)
- 1 - 2x interval runs (10x 100m, 70 - 80% effort)
Major focus on recovery vs trying to max out every single day.
My favourite style of training is something similar, but a top set, then take 10% of the weight off and do a second set with at least one more rep. On accessory exercises I sometimes would do more traditional volume.
I found my strength progressed way faster training like this and I didn’t have to go to the gym an hour plus every day. I probably trained a total of 2.5 hours a week, a lot of people are wasting their time in the gym imo. For a long time I trained full body, twice a week like this and my progress was excellent. I doubt I could go back
I perform only 3 sets per exercise (one warm up set and two working sets) using a Push - Pull - Legs split for the week.
I did it for a little over a year.
Tried a few different splits
1 day a week
Horizontal push
Horizontal pull
Vertical push
Vertical pull
Leg press
Curl
Tricep extension
Then did 2 days a week
Day 1
Horizontal push
Horizontal pull
Vertical push
Vertical pull
Curl
Tricep extension
Day 2
Leg press
Leg extension
Leg curl
Calf raise
I think it works much better if you are coming off a high volume routine, works better than well if you spent years doing high volume.
I gained a fair amount everywhere, but my upper body presses stalled hard after six months.
Upper body pulls slowed down growth but never stopped.
Lower body movements gained every week and gained the most. Ended up with slow 500lb leg presses for 20 reps before I stopped.
Lately I have been messing around with isometrics. Not long enough to really comment much, I am still figuring it out.
Yeah you mean HIT? I did this exclusively, apart from BJJ, for about 18 months before I got married. There's a lot of debate about the veracity of the claims but for me it worked and I got stronger and bigger. I was a total novice at that time and also younger so I had those factors on my side.
If you've been training 6-7 days per week well first of all hats off to you; not sure I could sustain that except by dialing volume and effort way back. Secondly, HIT may well provide all the bang you need for your buck, given the requirement for longer recovery between sessions, if you are already quite close to your genetic potential.
Dr Kevin Vost was a Catholic apologist who wrote several introductory books to Thomist philosophy and virtue ethics. He was also a bodybuilder and wrote Fit for Eternal Life which was based around Mentzer's HIT. It's written for a popular audience and you've probably therefore read much more advanced treatments of exercise-related concepts but, honestly, if you are looking to follow Mentzer's HIT path you could do much worse than picking up an ebook copy of Fit for Eternal Life for a few bucks.
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Has anybody here seen or used Prilepin's chart?
Basically it's a programming tool where you use a % of your 1RM to target how heavy to train. I'm not a particularly advanced lifter but not terrible either, and I've found it a useful tool. The way I use it is as escalating from a deload in the 3-6 rep range and every week I increase my intensity until I feel like I could benefit from a rest or deload week, usually about once every 6-8 weeks. I've only been using it for a year so far but I've found it pretty sustainable; lifting sessions are demanding but I'm not totally knocked out after them. I test my 1RMs probably 2-3x a year.
Basically it's a programming tool where you use a % of your 1RM to target how heavy to train. I'm not a particularly advanced lifter but not terrible either, and I've found it a useful tool. The way I use it is as escalating from a deload in the 3-6 rep range and every week I increase my intensity until I feel like I could benefit from a rest or deload week, usually about once every 6-8 weeks. I've only been using it for a year so far but I've found it pretty sustainable; lifting sessions are demanding but I'm not totally knocked out after them. I test my 1RMs probably 2-3x a year.
New Harry Potter spinoff lifters may be interested in watching!
Long post but I've been getting into the weird stuff again.
Lately I have been experimenting with yielding and overcoming isometrics.
Yielding isometric would be like doing a plank and holding the position as long as you can.
Overcoming isometric would be like pressing upward on a door frame as hard as you can.
From reading the literature, it seems like there are some things to consider.
Biggest advantage of isometric training is that they don't take a lot of time and they don't wreck your joints, at all. They likely strengthen tendons if performed properly.
Disadvantage - you do not get the same metabolic benefit as moving through the whole range of motion. I also notice that when I do apply my strength with a full range of motion lift after not doing it for a while, I get sore very easily. This is somewhat alleviated by doing yielding isos for minutes at a time.
If you perform the movement at the moment of greatest stretch, they seemingly carry over in strength through the entire movement. The 15 degrees forward and back has been proven to be a myth, apparently. So if you do a pushup plank, the most advantageous position is the one where your chest about touches the floor and you just hold that as long as you are able. Time will tell if it has actually been "debunked" or not, but I am willing to dink around with it. If it doesn't work, at least I know. If it does work, I just figured out how to get as big and strong as I'll ever get with a 20 dollar tow strap and a few other portable pieces of equipment.
Overcoming isometrics - you should use an object that has a slight amount of stretch to override the nervous system reflex to lower your exertion. So I use a tow strap for these. There is an apparatus that I made, it is basically a big cutting board, hockey pucks on the bottom for height, and a pipe or hooked handles. I loop the towstrap under this for my pulls, presses, squats, deadlifts etc.
General recommendation for overcoming isometric is 6 sets of 6 second max effort for strength, 3 sets of 20 to 45 seconds for hypertrophy, and upwards of 2 minutes for endurance. Allegedly, you can train upwards of every day.
There are devices for isometrics that can measure your strength like an isomax from dragondoor, but I currently have no interest in them, as they cost hundreds of dollars and a towstrap is 20 dollars and does nearly the same thing. If I wanted to, I could get a crane scale and mount it somewhere to figure out my strength of pull or push.
Yielding isometrics - they can be used for either strength, hypertrophy, or endurance. They are much easier to scale. The planche and front lever would be a fine example of a yielding isometric that makes you enormously strong over time. Lsit, handstands etc all good for strength in the beginning and endurance as you become more adept. I do mostly endurance work with these. Pushup plank at the bottom position, chinup at bottom slightly flexed and top of the movement, and horse stance for legs. Horse stance looks lame but I have worked up to only a little over 2 minutes and I notice that my legs never tire from normal activities anymore. I also crush a hand gripper and hold it for sets of 30 seconds to a minute. Muscles develop a weird density to them when you train for endurance. It is a very useful strength to have for general life.
Of these, I highly recommend the horse stance. Youtube is a good resource for it. It develops a stability and endurance in the legs that I did not have before.
Lately I have been experimenting with yielding and overcoming isometrics.
Yielding isometric would be like doing a plank and holding the position as long as you can.
Overcoming isometric would be like pressing upward on a door frame as hard as you can.
From reading the literature, it seems like there are some things to consider.
Biggest advantage of isometric training is that they don't take a lot of time and they don't wreck your joints, at all. They likely strengthen tendons if performed properly.
Disadvantage - you do not get the same metabolic benefit as moving through the whole range of motion. I also notice that when I do apply my strength with a full range of motion lift after not doing it for a while, I get sore very easily. This is somewhat alleviated by doing yielding isos for minutes at a time.
If you perform the movement at the moment of greatest stretch, they seemingly carry over in strength through the entire movement. The 15 degrees forward and back has been proven to be a myth, apparently. So if you do a pushup plank, the most advantageous position is the one where your chest about touches the floor and you just hold that as long as you are able. Time will tell if it has actually been "debunked" or not, but I am willing to dink around with it. If it doesn't work, at least I know. If it does work, I just figured out how to get as big and strong as I'll ever get with a 20 dollar tow strap and a few other portable pieces of equipment.
Overcoming isometrics - you should use an object that has a slight amount of stretch to override the nervous system reflex to lower your exertion. So I use a tow strap for these. There is an apparatus that I made, it is basically a big cutting board, hockey pucks on the bottom for height, and a pipe or hooked handles. I loop the towstrap under this for my pulls, presses, squats, deadlifts etc.
General recommendation for overcoming isometric is 6 sets of 6 second max effort for strength, 3 sets of 20 to 45 seconds for hypertrophy, and upwards of 2 minutes for endurance. Allegedly, you can train upwards of every day.
There are devices for isometrics that can measure your strength like an isomax from dragondoor, but I currently have no interest in them, as they cost hundreds of dollars and a towstrap is 20 dollars and does nearly the same thing. If I wanted to, I could get a crane scale and mount it somewhere to figure out my strength of pull or push.
Yielding isometrics - they can be used for either strength, hypertrophy, or endurance. They are much easier to scale. The planche and front lever would be a fine example of a yielding isometric that makes you enormously strong over time. Lsit, handstands etc all good for strength in the beginning and endurance as you become more adept. I do mostly endurance work with these. Pushup plank at the bottom position, chinup at bottom slightly flexed and top of the movement, and horse stance for legs. Horse stance looks lame but I have worked up to only a little over 2 minutes and I notice that my legs never tire from normal activities anymore. I also crush a hand gripper and hold it for sets of 30 seconds to a minute. Muscles develop a weird density to them when you train for endurance. It is a very useful strength to have for general life.
Of these, I highly recommend the horse stance. Youtube is a good resource for it. It develops a stability and endurance in the legs that I did not have before.
Prilepins chart is used in powerlifting very heavily.
In the Powerlifting thread I'll post some articles on it's use.
I've got a Louie Simmons article somewhere on this.
Re: isometrics
I've found these really to be best for strength building, but a large part of muscular development is accumulated by being stronger.
I will do Isometrics in the following way:
135 lb Bench pressed from by chest to a pin around my sticking point (about 4 inches to 6 inches above my chest) Held all out for 5 seconds
then I take immediately walk over to my second bench station and bench 225 (~55% - 60% of 1 RM) for a speed set of 5.
These are powerlifting coaches.... but the science/data is applicable in both strength and hypertrophy pursuits:
Dave Tate longer explanation on Isometrics.
RE: Prilepin's Chart:
Here's a T NATION article on this for Hypertrophy
Found an interesting tool that is useful for tracking purposes.
Type your specs in and it'll tell you, more or less, how muscular you are and how much further you can go.
I also enjoyed this calculator, it requires fewer measurements. This will tell you your Fat Free Mass Index.
Type your specs in and it'll tell you, more or less, how muscular you are and how much further you can go.
I also enjoyed this calculator, it requires fewer measurements. This will tell you your Fat Free Mass Index.
Batman
Heritage
If this is true it reveals something, most of the guys who fuck are benching normal, respectable natty level weights in the 225-250 range, but the guys OVER 300 lbs aren't getting pussy. Why? Because most guys on gear are doing it to impress people, at first women, at which point they find out women don't like roided up men, so they end up doing it purely for ego to impress other men, which leads to arrogance -> homoeroticism -> body dysmorphia -> mental illness, which means no pussy.
The guy with 550 is probably a powerlifter (who may be on gear, maybe not) and probably isn't a narcisstic, image obsessed douchebag.
I've been working out for almost ten years and I only managed to bench press 225 for 5 clean reps ONCE in my life and that was after doing a dirty bulk. But the types of guys on places like BB.com or /fit/ would say 225 is weak and go on to say they bench 225 as a warmup and you're a weakling etc.
The toxicity of these men are self-evident, because apparently when you exceed 250-300 lbs or so you don't get pvssy anymore.
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Yes, in my experience there is a lot of mental illness and extreme lack of social skills in both the bodybuilding and powerlifting scenes. The powerlifters will often say that physical strength is the single most important thing in life which is such a bizarre idea that I don't know where to start with them. This wasn't even true in the caveman days, but nowadays we have dollies and forklifts for lifting things heavier than our bodyweight in the real world.
Would it be cool to be able to bench, say, twice my bodyweight? I guess it would. How would my life improve? I can't really think of any significant way. The amount of energy, time, and probably drug use I'd need to get there would require severely neglecting my family and my career, and probably my health, so it would probably make my life overall considerably worse.
Batman
Heritage
Yeah, I have noticed that mindset as well. If you're doing it purely for aesthetics, hey, I can get that. But the idea that you should be as strong/big as possible at the cost of overall health/fitness is retarded. A lot of guys will be happy with >20% body fat and >34" waists as long as they have high PRs....the "builtfat" look is almost as bad as the skinnyfat look imo, especially if you're short you just look like a complete clown.
Persnally, I refuse to get stronger if it requires me to put on additional fat. You can do a "body recomp" where you gain muscle with almost no fat (possibly even losing fat) but it takes incredible discipline and patience and if you're a natty you will probably reach your limit quickly unless you have good genes. I'm fine with that. When I hit my limits I focus on maintenance and other things such as HIIT sprints, zone 2 cardio, flexibility, etc.
I'm happy being less strong if it means I get to keep my waist size at 31" and still be strong and fit enough to easily do any physical activities like hiking or rock climbing or sports.
If we're talking about what attracts women, they absolutely prefer the lean and mean look anyway. Think Brad Pitt in Fight Club. High vascularity, visible abs, wide shoulders relative to waist size is hyper attractive to almost all women (because it signifies health) and you can literally be that at 5'10 160lbs (iirc Pitts height/weight in the film) which people don't seem to understand.
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If you are an adult male and you’ve been lifting consistently for ten years, then yes, 225 for 5 is weak. Sorry.