Lifter's Lounge

[Batman]

It's pretty relative to your overall strength level. What sort of numbers are we talking about here?


If your bench was 225 and all the sudden you take 250 of test a week (which is like 2.5x what your body produces naturally) and you lift, you'll make gains... probably get to 255 lbs with lifting 1 x a week if you're eating. But if you were already benching 405 and then take test and don't work out it's not the same ball park.

relatively novice numbers (in terms of absolutely strength display ) are easily increased by gear. Once you're in the intermediate club, it's a little harder.

But yeah the only guaranteed side effect of test.... Is that it works.

So here are my 5RM PRs before TRT First # is at my heaviest bodyweight (~225lbs) and second # is at my average bodyweight (~180lbs). Also note all of these are based on perfect form, so no cheating like arching my back in bench press, full ROMs, ATG squats with no belt, complete stop with deadlifts, etc.

• Bench: 225 / 195 lbs
• Squats: 295 / 265 lbs
• Deadlift: 345 / 325 lbs (not 100% sure on these #s, could be off by 10%)
• OHP: 155 / 130 lbs

New PRs on TRT, weighing 190lbs

• Bench: 225 lbs - (after benching 5-6 days in the past 6 months)
• Squat: 295 lbs (after squatting 20-30 days in the past 6 months)
• Deadlifts: 375 lbs (after DLing 4-5 days in the past 6 months)
• OHP: 145 lbs (after OHPing 10-15 days in the past 6 months)

This part is highly revelant, so I'll say it again: when I was natty, I had consistent, solid routines and a highly optimized diet, with supplements like creatine, citrulline, preworkout, etc. As of now, I do none of this. My current diet, while fairly healthy, is lacking not just in calories, but protein and carbs. When I workout now I do it in the evening fasted after not eating for 24 hours and with no preworkout or supplements at all. And like I said, I have zero consistency and structure in my workouts, and sometimes even going 2+ weeks without lifting.

In spite of this, I am continually setting new PRs relative to my bodyweight without even trying. In fact, I am even starting to surpass the PRs I set when I weighed more, with extremely minimal effort compared to before. And note, that I started lifting again in May of this year after an entire year off, and it would normally take me months just to get to my average, but I was able to meet or exceed my all time PRs after doing them just a handful of days.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

So here are my 5RM PRs before TRT First # is at my heaviest bodyweight (~225lbs) and second # is at my average bodyweight (~180lbs). Also note all of these are based on perfect form, so no cheating like arching my back in bench press, full ROMs, ATG squats with no belt, complete stop with deadlifts, etc.

• Bench: 225 / 195 lbs
• Squats: 295 / 265 lbs
• Deadlift: 345 / 325 lbs (not 100% sure on these #s, could be off by 10%)
• OHP: 155 / 130 lbs

New PRs on TRT, weighing 190lbs

• Bench: 225 lbs - (after benching 5-6 days in the past 6 months)
• Squat: 295 lbs (after squatting 20-30 days in the past 6 months)
• Deadlifts: 375 lbs (after DLing 4-5 days in the past 6 months)
• OHP: 145 lbs (after OHPing 10-15 days in the past 6 months)

This part is highly revelant, so I'll say it again: when I was natty, I had consistent, solid routines and a highly optimized diet, with supplements like creatine, citrulline, preworkout, etc. As of now, I do none of this. My current diet, while fairly healthy, is lacking not just in calories, but protein and carbs. When I workout now I do it in the evening fasted after not eating for 24 hours and with no preworkout or supplements at all. And like I said, I have zero consistency and structure in my workouts, and sometimes even going 2+ weeks without lifting.

In spite of this, I am continually setting new PRs relative to my bodyweight without even trying. In fact, I am even starting to surpass the PRs I set when I weighed more, with extremely minimal effort compared to before. And note, that I started lifting again in May of this year after an entire year off, and it would normally take me months just to get to my average, but I was able to meet or exceed my all time PRs after doing them just a handful of days.

Yeah and you're taking 250 mg of test a week. That's a steroid cycle and isn't trt at all. That's 1.75 to 2.5x what you would produce in your peak at 16-23 years old.

And respectfully... Those lifts are not impressive for someone whose been seriously training "for strength" but are better than your average bear no doubt.

Of course it makes it easy to grow on limited calories, it's your brain chemistry ECT.

My point is that this too will end and you'll have to increase the dose for more gains or get serious about your training again when you want to progress.

 

[Batman]

Yeah and you're taking 250 mg of test a week. That's a steroid cycle and isn't trt at all. That's 1.75 to 2.5x what you would produce in your peak at 16-23 years old.

And respectfully... Those lifts are not impressive for someone whose been seriously training "for strength" but are better than your average bear no doubt.

Of course it makes it easy to grow on limited calories, it's your brain chemistry ECT.

My point is that this too will end and you'll have to increase the dose for more gains or get serious about your training again when you want to progress.

You would think 250mg/week is a lot, but because my prolactin, albumin, and SHBG are so high, it's effectively not that much more. I'll be doing a full blood panel test soon and I can show you what I mean, even taking this much Test, my free and bioavailable is still pretty low due to SHBG, those are the ones that matter. Again, the fact that i've had ZERO gyno symptoms despite doing nothing to modulate aromization/estrogen also kind of demonstrates how critical SHBG is.

Anyway, I never said that I had impressive lifts, nor did I say I was doing TRT for gains. But my actual point here is to be taken in context.

I consider myself to be naturally weak and not genetically wired to gain strength/mass, is that really such a radical idea? If you want some proof, when I first started lifting ten years ago I could barely even deadlift 135lbs, and certainly couldn't squat or bench that much. It took me like 2 years to be able to deadlift 225lbs and another 1-2 years to do 315, and I continually struggled to improve my bench press max by any meaningful amount.

So, my point still stands: The fact that taking high dose bioidentical Test by itself let me surpass my previous PRs with almost no effort says a lot, does it not?

 

[FrancisK]

Rapid gains when going on gear is common as your receptors are nice and fresh among many other variables, it levels off.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

You would think 250mg/week is a lot, but because my prolactin, albumin, and SHBG are so high, it's effectively not that much more. I'll be doing a full blood panel test soon and I can show you what I mean, even taking this much Test, my free and bioavailable is still pretty low due to SHBG, those are the ones that matter. Again, the fact that i've had ZERO gyno symptoms despite doing nothing to modulate aromization/estrogen also kind of demonstrates how critical SHBG is.

Anyway, I never said that I had impressive lifts, nor did I say I was doing TRT for gains. But my actual point here is to be taken in context.

I consider myself to be naturally weak and not genetically wired to gain strength/mass, is that really such a radical idea? If you want some proof, when I first started lifting ten years ago I could barely even deadlift 135lbs, and certainly couldn't squat or bench that much. It took me like 2 years to be able to deadlift 225lbs and another 1-2 years to do 315, and I continually struggled to improve my bench press max by any meaningful amount.

So, my point still stands: The fact that taking high dose bioidentical Test by itself let me surpass my previous PRs with almost no effort says a lot, does it not?

No body is saying it don't work homie. Of course it works. And it does make things really easy. You're effectively experiencing newbie gains

Rapid gains when going on gear is common as your receptors are nice and fresh among many other variables, it levels off.

Exactly

What are the numbers? Total and free test are both important and both matter for comparison. Just because you don't have gyno doesn't mean you're not high. That's a product of several factors including body fat. Lower body fat generally results in lower aromatization. Doesn't mean you don't have a total t of 2500 and a free T of 300.

Also apologize if I came off like I'm ragging on you, not my intent. Just trying to set a realistic expectation. You're experiences are not necessarily standard data for all.

 

[Batman]

No body is saying it don't work homie. Of course it works. And it does make things really easy. You're effectively experiencing newbie gains

Exactly

What are the numbers? Total and free test are both important and both matter for comparison. Just because you don't have gyno doesn't mean you're not high. That's a product of several factors including body fat. Lower body fat generally results in lower aromatization. Doesn't mean you don't have a total t of 2500 and a free T of 300.

Also apologize if I came off like I'm ragging on you, not my intent. Just trying to set a realistic expectation. You're experiences are not necessarily standard data for all.

I know that nobody is saying it doesn't work lol. What I'm confused on is how with almost no effort, I'm hitting new PRs that I could never dream of when I actually worked hard and optimized everything. I was gaslit my whole life to believe that hormones matter less than diet/workout routines, but clearly this is 100% false.

I'll post results soon. But like I said i've done tests before multiple times and my SHBG was always so high that it was actually past the reference range, at times it was as high as 70nmol/L with the ref range of 10-50.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

I know that nobody is saying it doesn't work lol. What I'm confused on is how with almost no effort, I'm hitting new PRs that I could never dream of when I actually worked hard and optimized everything. I was gaslit my whole life to believe that hormones matter less than diet/workout routines, but clearly this is 100% false.

I'll post results soon. But like I said i've done tests before multiple times and my SHBG was always so high that it was actually past the reference range, at times it was as high as 70nmol/L with the ref range of 10-50.

Respectfully, again the diet and training do matter. Don't confuse your relatively novice experience as the norm and the context of the claims you're making. You are absolutely taking a steroid cycle. No judgement of course. But yeah of course you can be lazy and lift less often and still make some gains when you're taking 2x to 2.5x the height of your peak production in your youth.

I guarantee you're program was significantly less than optimal.
I guarantee your diet was sub optimal
I guarantee your sleep was sub optimal.

You can continue to grow now because of fresh androgen receptors and your body adjusting to all the new exogenous test. Eventually this will stop.

Sure it doesn't matter for someone whose not serious... And very casual.

Imagine if you actually did all that other stuff right and took the test and had your diet locked in and all that.

Also sometimes people just grow by reducing volume and healing and eating.

There's tons of things behind the why there that isn't just " all I gotta do is take steroids and lift 1x a week and I'm gonna become a monster"

But if someone is serious, say they want to get to be 250lbs at 8 percent body fat, diet and training are more important by an order of magnitude than just adding a little gear.

The fundamentals are more important than the gear. But the gear helps and allows you to be sloppier than a natural athlete.

Again, I'm not judging. I take 200 Mgs of test a week right now usually, I split it into 2 shots. Sometimes I travel or miss a shot or something I work late and forget. I haven't been able to get the 5 work outs a week I usually do, heck right now I'm lucky if I get a full 3. Im still pretty strong and still look like I lift. After 5 years on testosterone therapy, I'm not pr ing just by lifting 1x a week. Ain't happening. I have to get back to more volume and a periodized training program.

Anytime you do something new, you'll get a stimulus. Eventually that will end.

Thats all I'm saying.

 

[Batman]

I guarantee you're program was significantly less than optimal.
I guarantee your diet was sub optimal
I guarantee your sleep was sub optimal.

What an incredible statement.

I never said that diet and programming don't matter, my claim is that your genetics (including hormones) may be more deterministic than anything else for how strong/big you get. I'm not disagreeing with anything else you're saying.

What, in your estimation, is the optimal diet and workout routine for building strength, assuming everything else equal?

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

What an incredible statement.

I never said that diet and programming don't matter, my claim is that your genetics (including hormones) may be more deterministic than anything else for how strong/big you get. I'm not disagreeing with anything else you're saying.

What, in your estimation, is the optimal diet and workout routine for building strength, assuming everything else equal?

Genetics are the undisputed king. I don't think anyone here would deny that. But we can't do anything about our genetics, we can control how we behave. Getting enough sleep, eating the right diet for your body, training for your goals, are all things we can do to maximize our genetics.

And yes, I often marvel at the vast difference in genetics in humans. Then again, a tea cup pomerium is a dog, just as much as a Great Dane is.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

What an incredible statement.

I never said that diet and programming don't matter, my claim is that your genetics (including hormones) may be more deterministic than anything else for how strong/big you get. I'm not disagreeing with anything else you're saying.

What, in your estimation, is the optimal diet and workout routine for building strength, assuming everything else equal?

Agree genetics are the trump card .

On the training and diet, a combination of conjugate method for strength and power development as popularized by Louie Simmons has been scientifically proven to be optimal mathematically and from clinical results.


Diet sleep and other components you should look at what Charles Poliquin teaches. Or Stan Efferdines vertical diet.

 

[Uzisuicide]

mid 30s, my total T levels were fairly high, but my prolactin, albumin, and SHBG in particular were quite high also which offset it; my free/bioavailable T were on the low end since my T was bound up in SHBG and the prolactin was counteracting it, too. So instead of messing with SHBG/prolactin (which is risky) i figured my free/bioavailable was too low which means I simply need higher total Test. Every "professional" i've been to completely glossed over this insight, so, I took it upon myself to experiment, and I've never felt better, and to be honest I'm not sure if I ever want to come off now.

You might want to research 25mg of Proviron a day while you're on. It binds to the SHBG which will increase your free Test numbers. It doesn't convert to estrogen either and in fact also has a certain affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme which helps mitigate Test converting to estrogen. You might be able to lower your Test dosage with it if that's what you are looking to do. I was running 750mg per week of Test and threw in 50mg of Proviron/day. Blood tests showed a major decrease in SHBG and a resulting increase in free test. I had stellar results! Check the pros and cons, it might work for you.

You might also want to look into Cabergoline to lower prolactin levels in your blood. I stayed on Nandralone too long and had prolactin levels just on the line of normal-high. I used Cabergoline three times a week and the resulting blood test showed that my prolactin levels crashed. Powerful stuff so you don't need much. It can be difficult to source so it's good to find the right doctor who understands what men are trying to accomplish with their hormones (which can be tough).

 

[Get2choppaaa]

You might want to research 25mg of Proviron a day while you're on. It binds to the SHBG which will increase your free Test numbers. It doesn't convert to estrogen either and in fact also has a certain affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme which helps mitigate Test converting to estrogen. You might be able to lower your Test dosage with it if that's what you are looking to do. I was running 750mg per week of Test and threw in 50mg of Proviron/day. Blood tests showed a major decrease in SHBG and a resulting increase in free test. I had stellar results! Check the pros and cons, it might work for you.

You might also want to look into Cabergoline to lower prolactin levels in your blood. I stayed on Nandralone too long and had prolactin levels just on the line of normal-high. I used Cabergoline three times a week and the resulting blood test showed that my prolactin levels crashed. Powerful stuff so you don't need much. It can be difficult to source so it's good to find the right doctor who understands what men are trying to accomplish with their hormones (which can be tough).

Excellent post.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

 

[El Chaderino]

Doping is against the laws of nature, just like homosexuality.

As someone who has been training for more than 15 years and being natty I have a special contempt for drug addicts.

I see you as balloons filled with air. Once you stop the juice, you deflate.

Don't roid rage on me, amigos.

To say something positive, I would say that someone who's on juice but stop it for the love of God and humble himself is doing a very good deed but I'm not in that position. It's a good challenge to start again without juice, isn't it ? (being positive is definitely harder than trolling)

Just stay off the juice you fags.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Doping is against the laws of nature, just like homosexuality.

As someone who has been training for more than 15 years and being natty I have a special contempt for drug addicts.

I see you as balloons filled with air. Once you stop the juice, you deflate.

Don't roid rage on me, amigos.

To say something positive, I would say that someone who's on juice but stop it for the love of God and humble himself is doing a very good deed but I'm not in that position. It's a good challenge to start again without juice, isn't it ? (being positive is definitely harder than trolling)

Just stay off the juice you fags.

You're entitled to your opinions, but comparing someone who takes testosterone to homosexuality is pretty dense and pretty arrogant from you.

We are talking about people going through doctors and taking testosterone through a medically supervised view. Not people getting gear from their buddy at the gym with out any knowledge of what they are doing.

But more importantly...why do you care what other men do regarding their own health and fitness? These are personal decisions that don't have anything to do with you.

Do you have something to contribute other than conjecture and your personal opinion?

 

[BehindTheLines]

What an incredible statement.

I never said that diet and programming don't matter, my claim is that your genetics (including hormones) may be more deterministic than anything else for how strong/big you get. I'm not disagreeing with anything else you're saying.

What, in your estimation, is the optimal diet and workout routine for building strength, assuming everything else equal?

Looking over your last few posts, you’re kinda all over the place. I’m not sure what message you’re trying to convey here.

If I was sticking to this with the same adherence to lifting routines and diet, the PRs would have probably increased by over 50%.

In a previous post, you mentioned that had you stuck with more consistent training program, your 5RM(?) PRs would be up by 50%, with a lot of credit going to the TRT.

So here are my 5RM PRs before TRT First # is at my heaviest bodyweight (~225lbs) and second # is at my average bodyweight (~180lbs). Also note all of these are based on perfect form, so no cheating like arching my back in bench press, full ROMs, ATG squats with no belt, complete stop with deadlifts, etc.

• Bench: 225 / 195 lbs
• Squats: 295 / 265 lbs
• Deadlift: 345 / 325 lbs (not 100% sure on these #s, could be off by 10%)
• OHP: 155 / 130 lbs

New PRs on TRT, weighing 190lbs

• Bench: 225 lbs - (after benching 5-6 days in the past 6 months)
• Squat: 295 lbs (after squatting 20-30 days in the past 6 months)
• Deadlifts: 375 lbs (after DLing 4-5 days in the past 6 months)
• OHP: 145 lbs (after OHPing 10-15 days in the past 6 months)

Looking at the numbers you listed comparing your previous 5RM(?) PRs-to-bodyweight ratios (using the 180-pound body weight) and current numbers (lifts-to-190 pounds), your lifts went up anywhere from 5.5 to 9.5 percent (my math sucks; check me if you need to).

Are you contending that getting more protein and carbs would have 5 to 10 x’d these results? If this is the case, it would appear as though a good protein/carb supplement would do MUCH more for the body than TRT does.

Also note all of these are based on perfect form, so no cheating like arching my back in bench press, full ROMs, ATG squats with no belt, complete stop with deadlifts, etc.

Also wondering what the deal with “cheating “ is. Do you really think using a belt to squat is cheating? If so, why not all the supps and, in recent times, the TRT you’re taking? I personally don’t think any of this is “cheating”; just curious about the belt logic.

I'm sure some low-bar squatters would also question how hitting parallel is cheating vs. ATG.

When I workout now I do it in the evening fasted after not eating for 24 hours

Why are you training fasted (like SERIOUS, 24-hours fasted)? If you’re serious about adopting an strength-gaining diet, these types of fasts, especially prior to training, aren’t the way to go.

What, in your estimation, is the optimal diet and workout routine for building strength, assuming everything else equal?

I’m into different types of training than the vast majority of the more powerlifting-focused lifters here, but assuming you want to stick around 180 pounds, I’d suggest aiming for between 185-195 grams of protein a day and between 2500 and 2700 total calories (depending on your activity levels. If you're content to lift once every 2 weeks, I don't know what to tell you). If you shoot for that and actually get something in your stomach 20-30 minutes prior to training, you’ll be good to go; no need to overcomplicate things.

 

[Batman]

You might want to research 25mg of Proviron a day while you're on. It binds to the SHBG which will increase your free Test numbers. It doesn't convert to estrogen either and in fact also has a certain affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme which helps mitigate Test converting to estrogen. You might be able to lower your Test dosage with it if that's what you are looking to do. I was running 750mg per week of Test and threw in 50mg of Proviron/day. Blood tests showed a major decrease in SHBG and a resulting increase in free test. I had stellar results! Check the pros and cons, it might work for you.

You might also want to look into Cabergoline to lower prolactin levels in your blood. I stayed on Nandralone too long and had prolactin levels just on the line of normal-high. I used Cabergoline three times a week and the resulting blood test showed that my prolactin levels crashed. Powerful stuff so you don't need much. It can be difficult to source so it's good to find the right doctor who understands what men are trying to accomplish with their hormones (which can be tough).

I did research Proviron and was very close to buying it, but then i saw too many user reports about hair loss. As a mid 30s male with zero signs of balding (or any other signs of aging poorly for that matter) i unshamefully admit that I very much would like to keep my hairline so I can maintain the possibility of dating early 20s women into my 40s. That said, Proviron would be the logical choice since my high SHBG is the actual issue. I avoid stuff like that since it's not something natural your body has ever dealt with, and the side effects are very unpredictable.

I did do a trial of Cabergoline, but the 65 hour half life + side effects are a bit scary for me; it impacted my sleep and it felt way too powerful even at .25mg a week so I stopped. It really felt like a dirty stimulant more than a hormone optimization tool. I had actually tried it to help with my brutal refractory periods which was noticeable, but the side effects didn't seem worth it.

Doping is against the laws of nature, just like homosexuality.

As someone who has been training for more than 15 years and being natty I have a special contempt for drug addicts.

I see you as balloons filled with air. Once you stop the juice, you deflate.

Don't roid rage on me, amigos.

To say something positive, I would say that someone who's on juice but stop it for the love of God and humble himself is doing a very good deed but I'm not in that position. It's a good challenge to start again without juice, isn't it ? (being positive is definitely harder than trolling)

Just stay off the juice you fags.

#1 TRT is not in steroid territory, imo. Steroids are things like Deca, Tren, etc. TRT is bioidentical testosterone that your body recognizes as the same as the stuff produced by your testes, you just get more of it.

#2 Being on TRT, or arguably even most steroids does not make someone a "drug addict", that's an absurd statement. In the case of obsessive bodybuilding who use aggressive amounts of gear, I do agree they have a pathology of self-image and homoeroticism going on. And no, I don't think it's a "slippery slope".

#3 You know what's also against nature? Xenoestrogens. You can try, but they're simply unavoidable now, and it's why men's Test levels have been declining steadily for *decades*. Eventually I realized because of how ubiqitous xenoestrogens are, it's almost a requirement to get on TRT.

Looking over your last few posts, you’re kinda all over the place. I’m not sure what message you’re trying to convey here.

See below

In a previous post, you mentioned that had you stuck with more consistent training program, your 5RM(?) PRs would be up by 50%, with a lot of credit going to the TRT.

^ That is what I'm trying to convey. Pointing out that hormones rule our lives.

Looking at the numbers you listed comparing your previous 5RM(?) PRs-to-bodyweight ratios (using the 180-pound body weight) and current numbers (lifts-to-190 pounds), your lifts went up anywhere from 5.5 to 9.5 percent (my math sucks; check me if you need to).

Are you contending that getting more protein and carbs would have 5 to 10 x’d these results? If this is the case, it would appear as though a good protein/carb supplement would do MUCH more for the body than TRT does.

I didn't do the math either, so I probably was off saying 50%. I think I am underemphasizing how poor my strength training regimen and even diet is lately.

#1 I often don't even consume 100g of protein per day, with maybe 50-150g of carbs at most, and I fast every day too (not good for strength).

#2 In the past 6 months I've probably only been to the gym 30 times, and sometimes had short workouts of only 1 or 2 compound lifts. For the first month of TRT, I didn't even lift and hadn't for months already, yet literally in my first couple of weeks back at the gym I was able to start at my typical range immediately, which would normally take several weeks of training to reach.

In spite of all this, 10-20 sets was enough to improve all my major compound lifts (except rows which I haven't done at all) and set new PRs in spite of what I just mentioned with regards to diet and lack of training.

Also wondering what the deal with “cheating “ is. Do you really think using a belt to squat is cheating? If so, why not all the supps and, in recent times, the TRT you’re taking? I personally don’t think any of this is “cheating”; just curious about the belt logic.

I never said that it was cheating and didn't mean to imply it. I was just pointing out that I was doing ATG squats with no belt to give context to the numbers, since if I used a belt and did parallel or above, I could easily have added another 50+ lbs.

Why are you training fasted (like SERIOUS, 24-hours fasted)? If you’re serious about adopting an strength-gaining diet, these types of fasts, especially prior to training, aren’t the way to go.

Because I never have an appetite during the day. I'm not trying to, and I know it's not optimal.

I’m into different types of training than the vast majority of the more powerlifting-focused lifters here, but assuming you want to stick around 180 pounds, I’d suggest aiming for between 185-195 grams of protein a day and between 2500 and 2700 total calories (depending on your activity levels. If you're content to lift once every 2 weeks, I don't know what to tell you). If you shoot for that and actually get something in your stomach 20-30 minutes prior to training, you’ll be good to go; no need to overcomplicate things.

Yes I agree, I know I need way more protein, carbs, and cals in general.

 

[El Chaderino]

You're entitled to your opinions, but comparing someone who takes testosterone to homosexuality is pretty dense and pretty arrogant from you.

I said fags as a manner of speaking, I could have said pussies or something like that.

I said that doping (and homosexuality) is against the laws of nature, not that taking testosterone is gay.
It was deliberately provocative.

I consider taking testosterone as unnatural and unholy.

Do you have something to contribute other than conjecture and your personal opinion?

I tried :

To say something positive, I would say that someone who's on juice but stop it for the love of God and humble himself is doing a very good deed but I'm not in that position. It's a good challenge to start again without juice, isn't it ? (being positive is definitely harder than trolling)

 

[Get2choppaaa]

I said fags as a manner of speaking, I could have said pussies or something like that.

I think your message would be better for teenagers at the gym than grown men who are making informed decisions based off of their understanding of the hormone system, their own life predicament.

I said that doping (and homosexuality) is against the laws of nature, not that taking testosterone is gay.
It was deliberately provocative.

What does that even mean basil?

It's natural to die at age 30.

It's not natural to wipe your ass with toilet paper.

it's also not natural to have micro plastics, and xenoestrogens, and TBI as very common for a large portion of men as we do now.

I consider taking testosterone as unnatural and unholy.

I tried :

We've heard your hypothesis, message received. Clearly this isn't for you. And that's great. No one's telling you to do them.

Now as far as unholy... I don't think you're able to make any prognostications here with validity.

 

[El Chaderino]

You seem to have been triggered by my first post so I just wanted to spare your feelings with my second one.

Anyway, you're on drugs.

Now as far as unholy... I don't think you're able to make any prognostications here with validity.

It's true, I am nobody.

You're still on drugs.