Is it Worth Busting Your Ass in a Career?

[MusicForThePiano]

I would find a field where you work with machines, computers, equipment, vehicles, nature, more than you work with people. Being around people less helps greatly. The less interactions you have with people in your work, the less bitter you are. I've been surrounded by people constantly in some previous fields, the micromanagement and the non-stop interaction forced my social skills to be savvy and quick, but it wears out one's patience. There is no greater joy I've known being away from a crowd of people like praying alone in a Cathedral, or being at home in your downtime with just your thoughts to keep you company.

Familiarity always breeds contempt, but we will not thrive without social contact. If we surround ourselves with our own people and as many like-minded souls as possible, then this double-edged sword becomes duller.

 

[Australia Sucks]

I would find a field where you work with machines, computers, equipment, vehicles, nature, more than you work with people. Being around people less helps greatly. The less interactions you have with people in your work, the less bitter you are. I've been surrounded by people constantly in some previous fields, the micromanagement and the non-stop interaction forced my social skills to be savvy and quick, but it wears out one's patience. There is no greater joy I've known being away from a crowd of people like praying alone in a Cathedral, or being at home in your downtime with just your thoughts to keep you company.

Familiarity always breeds contempt, but we will not thrive without social contact. If we surround ourselves with our own people and as many like-minded souls as possible, then this double-edged sword becomes duller.

I think in general that is true, but I would say by and large interacting with customers is okay. Interacting with coworkers and in particular management is where most of the problems tend to occur. If you can be in some kind of job where you interact with many customers but rarely ever see management then it can be quite pleasant. Management are the bain of employees existence. Most corporate management employees are soulless, immoral, low IQ kiss-asses who would sell their own mother down the river to earn a few extra sheckels. I compare corporate management employees to politicians. Its rare to find one who isn't a scumbag.

 

[analyst_green]

Work can be a great part of your spiritual practice and it can also help you to cultivate obedience, which is one of the greatest virtues. I do what my boss tells me, I don't complain, and I don't care about the grand scheme of things in the company. I just put in an honest eight hours and get out of there and disconnect at the end of the day.

The amount of mental anguish it would take me to work my way up the corporate ladder is just so discouraging, I'm happy staying where I am. As a skilled technical professional I'm paid well enough, and if I am to advance it will likely be by learning new skills rather than working the corporate political machine. You really have to be a "people person" and, as others have said, be ready to push through a ton of BS in order to advance in management.

 

[Hannibal]

I do electrical and mechanical maintenance, my boss doesn't care at all about what I do or how as long as things are getting done. The skill required is about a foot deep and ten miles wide, a literal jack of all trades kind of job, an anti doctorate. I never do the same thing every day so it doesn't get boring. The paper pushers never bother me. They know that if I'm not happy, I can just leave and get hired anywhere else. This lends itself to a very polite and jovial work environment.

I spent five years learning everything I could from people who knew more than me. Every day I learn new things. I'm not making six figures, but I genuinely enjoy my line of work and the best part is, I don't deal with people.

I don't know much about greenskeeping, but maybe you could leverage that knowledge into something else? I grew up on a farm, so my background in repairing farm equipment, welding, and redneck fabrication lent itself well to what I do now.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

I didn't say "don't improve yourself", just follow what makes you fulfilled. I think 20 years ago the advice of "suck it up and provide a better future for your children" was solid advice. My parents were able to do that, as were my grandparents and so on. We just can no longer take for granted that we still live in a vacuum and if we work hard our kids will have a better future. The future is very dim, especially in the USA. Heck, the present is very dim, I shudder to think of the future.

I work in a field I find no joy or pleasure in at all. It leads to deep depression at times, and I am just constantly counting the days until I think I can get out of the field. I can't imagine being of this mindset and trying to create a happy/stable home for children. I couldn't do it. At the same time, I don't see anything else that interests me enough to jump ship. Everything is full of sky high barriers, such as DEI hiring practices, criminally high education prices, unstable work environment/economy, and the constant influx of change making the job more and more challenging.

I guess, all in all, my advice is to find your path. The days of just sucking it up and your kids will live better is over. You can still suck it up, be miserable, and your kids survive but also be miserable. That isn't how I want to live and that isn't how I want my children to live either.

If anyone sees a specific path out of this cyclical nightmare, please feel free to share. If there is a field/investment that escapes these pitfalls, I am all ears. It may not work for me, but at least I will feel comfortable giving advice to young people again. When young people ask me for advice today, I tell them medical, because that is one field that will only grow. I wouldn't want to do it myself, so maybe that is the path forward for many others.

I guess it just goes back to, is it worth it to bust your ass? Depends 100% on the rewards of doing so. I know people who have been rewarded for it and others who have been taken advantage of. I have been taken advantage of, so I am now at a point where I am doing as little as possible and counting the days. It isn't a great way to live, but it beats working on my few vacation days, losing vacation days, and waking up at 4:00 AM to get to the office first, all to get 0 promotions in 20 years.

I have been getting some likes on this post and reading back over it and discovering a few things since the time I posted this, I had some more insight I wanted to share.

At the end of the day, I think our goal is to find purpose in life. I hear the term "find our purpose" and for each of us it is different. Though, I think many men don't find "their purpose", because at the very base of it all, a man's purpose is to defend his family, and we don't really defend our families in a traditional sense. We do so financially, as afforded to us, in a self-destructing society where we are mostly powerless to stop the self-destruction.

If your career gives you purpose. And you will know it when you feel it, it makes you excited to get out of bed, put in extra time to growing in that field, a real passion, then yes, it pays greatly to bust your ass. It is bigger than money at that point, go for it. For most of us, a job is just a slow grind that is a necessary evil. IF busting your ass will give you little in return, outside of money, I suggest you do your minimum requirements and spend your time finding something that excites you more. That might take years, be patient with his process of finding an more meaningful existence. I feel I am now just discovering this better path, I don't even know if it will give me a better financial option, but it feels right and I am going for it, and that feels great. It is outside my current professional field, so eventually I will make a move, if things prove to work well. If not, I don't have too many more years to tough it out in my career.

Working a job/career you loath is tough. Getting out of that situation is a big win, don't give up on it, put your extra energy into getting out v. trying to climb the corporate ladder and end up having to push diversity mandates on your subordinates and feeling sick about it after 5 PM.

I post on this for two reasons...

#1) Getting up and grinding it out for 45 years is admirable, it will give your children and opportunity to have a better life, and it is commendable. But, at the same time, if you don't give up on yourself, you are capable of more than just grinding it out for 45 years. You are capable and deserving of a life that offers more and a job that will give you more than a paycheck in exchange for most your waking hours. I highly suggest looking for this more rewarding path and be VERY patient with the process. As you age, and financial security becomes more realistic, the opportunities to leave behind the grind will increase.

#2) We all have a shared purpose, of serving our Lord and Savior and fighting the satanic evil that is taken ahold of the western world. And every little thing we do is a small battle we win against this satanic elite. And finding a purpose and sharing that with the world is a big battle won against these satanic elites. I'm not a capitalist, but capitalism is the engine my enemies chose to use over us, so let's flip it on them. Find something that makes you really want to push, where money will just appear without you even realizing how or why and use that against the satanic elites. Spreading this motivation and confidence to the next generation is a big win.

 

[Droughtmeat]

Yes, that's what I was saying. What's worse is that they'll forego their value years to both try to double dip AND shoot higher than reasonable, thus making their late 20s and 30s a joke for other men to consider. One of the things that's worst about the whole situation is that they have zero insight into just how invisible they are at 40+, while guys are pretty much the same, and worth more, from 30-60.

Yep, this is so true. Women end up disqualifying themselves and other men in the process. The man a career woman is looking for at age 30+ is simply not looking for women in that age bracket.

In addition, she most likely hasn't honed truly desirable skills, like cooking. Therefore, there's no incentive for a rich 35 to 40 year old guy to be with her.

Women essentially work themselves into a hole where they're only wanted by men who earn the same amount as them or even less OR they actually end up getting the majority of their validation and positive feedback from refugees, McDonald's employees, young guys looking for a milf adventure etc.

 

[δούλος του Χριστού]

I have been consistently employed since about the age of 13 or 14 and I spent a lot of years working somewhat hard, at times 70+ hours a week. Later in life I had a pretty decent career & income going for a single man and more than enough money for my lifestyle and I prioritized freedom and recreation. I could have gone on that way forever and been content however when I got married I suddenly felt the need to push a lot harder, and I doubled my salary in less than 3 years. When I look back on my life now I wish I had done that sooner, if only to provide a better life for my family and to retire a bit sooner, however at the time I was in delusion and not thinking about God or family and enjoying myself a bit too much.

However this doesn't really answer the question in the OP. Is it worth it to work hard in a career? I would say yes, if you want to be "successful" in life. I worked much harder and longer hours for much less pay earlier in my life, and as my skills and experience increased I've been able to work less hard and fewer hours for a lot more money.

I would say don't be one of those people who stays in one job/company for 20 years. My biggest career advancements have come from working in one place for maybe 2-3 years and then moving somewhere else. I stayed in one job for almost 10 years because it was convenient and not too demanding and it paid ok, but I now realize I stayed too long. In my experience you need to always be looking at the next step and trying to figure out how you are going to get there, don't get complacent, and don't be afraid to take risks because otherwise it will seriously limit your advancement and earnings potential.

 

[Blade Runner]

Yep, this is so true. Women end up disqualifying themselves and other men in the process. The man a career woman is looking for at age 30+ is simply not looking for women in that age bracket.

In addition, she most likely hasn't honed truly desirable skills, like cooking. Therefore, there's no incentive for a rich 35 to 40 year old guy to be with her.

Women essentially work themselves into a hole where they're only wanted by men who earn the same amount as them or even less OR they actually end up getting the majority of their validation and positive feedback from refugees, McDonald's employees, young guys looking for a milf adventure etc.

That becomes one of the hardest things about the late 30s or early 40s for a guy, especially in the west since in other countries that isn't really even considered old, and you can still easily get younger women who aren't catered to or even have jobs where they make really meaningful money regarding how much they'd like, to improve their lives.

The sick plan is that they take women out of the early and attractive years, then they simultaneously propagandize the society to limit or shame age gaps so that the successful men at the "older ages" can't get the young women they weren't able to get, for both women career and their career reasons (as they take a while to make more). I've talked about it a lot, the easy fix is just let the silly women follow career and get stranded, but if you want couples and babies, then at least promote some portion of the younger ones to get married to older men. The problem is that the messaging is against all of this too, so the only option for the successful older guy at that point is going overseas. Either that or just trying (sadly) to use the older ones for sex since he can't take them seriously anyway at that point. That happens a lot, actually, since few are going to leave their home environments.

In a certain sense the Kevin Samuels of the world are right when they say the 35-45 year old man with wealth and single is platinum, but the problem then becomes the society in general, since it is so anti-male and even if you can get a young woman, legally there might be issues (especially if considering marriage) and then we have the fattening and the small % of women that are actually even not fat and 6+at all.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

I don't know much about greenskeeping, but maybe you could leverage that knowledge into something else? I grew up on a farm, so my background in repairing farm equipment, welding, and redneck fabrication lent itself well to what I do now.

Yeah my plan is to move on to something else related to landscaping, turf, horticulture, etc. I really enjoy that part of the job, just not the golf industry side of turf maintenance. I've actually made peace with not wanting to be a golf course superintendent anymore and it's made me be content with the greenskeeping job again. It can lead to other things, especially since I'm in a program for turf management too.

Your job sounds great. I might look into things like that too. We also have several different kinds of electrical apprenticeships around here.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Hannibal]

Yeah my plan is to move on to something else related to landscaping, turf, horticulture, etc. I really enjoy that part of the job, just not the golf industry side of turf maintenance. I've actually made peace with not wanting to be a golf course superintendent anymore and it's made me be content with the greenskeeping job again.

Your job sounds great. I might eventually look into stuff like that too. We also have several different types of electrical apprenticeships around here.

Thanks for the advice.

If you go in that direction, easiest way to get started is to make a list of all the warehouses and factories within comfortable driving distance and apply for warehouse maintenance or maintenance technician.

Depending on the area, the barrier to entry is not terribly high. We had all kinds of guys with all kinds of backgrounds at my old job, 25 to 65 years old, carpenters, bodyworkers, car mechanics, lawnmower repair guys, welders and everything else in between. Some of those places are more stressful than others of course, but the fact is that there isn't a ton of competition for these jobs in the 30 and under crowd. Some factories are more specific and require boiler tech licenses, etc.

A lot of these places also have groundskeeper roles, but they don't tend to pay as high. However at all the ones I've seen, the groundskeeper had normal hours 5 days a week whereas a lot of the maintenance tech jobs would do 3/2/2 or evening/night shifts. Depends entirely on what you want, you might also find a smaller company where they don't run the place 24/7 and you're more of a one man show, which is what I currently have.

 

[TheSurveyor]

Honestly I’m a believer of FIRE( financial independence retire early). Just save up your money as much as you can for like 10 years, don’t make any major purchases right away (house, car, etc.)

While you’re saving your money up invest it into low stress assets (stocks, bonds, hysas). Let’s say you save up like 300k at 6% return that’s like 18k a year. It might not seem like a lot, but that’s 18k less that you have to work for.

For me it’s all about working the least amount of working hours possible while keeping myself at self-sustaining range. If you want to make a modest 50k/year without having to work, go for it. But if you want 100k/year without having to work then you’re gonna have to push hard.

Every job sucks after a while is what I’m learning. Generation Z realized this much faster than us Millenials and Gen X did. Except their just maximizing pleasure with no concern for the consequences of not working in their youth.

Given the US, declining population the only way corporations can keep wages low is by lobbying politicians to keep importing immigrants on the taxpayers’ tab.

Don’t slave yourself to the system, save up enough in passive income that you can participate in the workforce in a healthy manner and more importantly ON YOUR OWN TERMS!!

 

[Blade Runner]

Every job sucks after a while is what I’m learning. Generation Z realized this much faster than us Millenials and Gen X did. Except their just maximizing pleasure with no concern for the consequences of not working in their youth.

Great post. You've got it. The reason why they figured it out earlier, by the way, (and the spoiling from parents also helped this) is that it was already obvious that no house, girl, etc was going to be available for over 90% of people, or certainly the average, even above average Joe.

I've advocated no one use dating apps for years now, because it's just reinforcing a broken system, one that is bad for people anyway. I don't know how one could not advocate for young men to just check out, and hasten the demise, since that's all anyone will respond to. Of course, boomers don't want you to do this, they need your tax and ponzi dollars. I'm not saying give up entirely, but I am saying go minimalist and 1099, give the parasites (women and government) as little as possible.

One could look at hoe_maths' number chart and even he admits that a "7" male has pretty much no options, considering how valuable he is, and it's really sad. He spoke about a girl telling someone to "just be more selective" as if a man has that option. He stated that a man can go a decade with only 1 or 2 girls even remotely viable. It's so true. When you realize that, you understand that this culture just needs to die and you need to water the grass in some other location (overseas), if at all possible.

 

[Christos_NIKA]

If you are single, no family, no kids, no responsibilities, then I would say no, it's not worth busting your @$$. Why?
If you are non-religious, just pursue hobbies, maybe help the poor in some way, travel the world.
If you are religious, pursue spiritual goals, get right with Christ, focus on the eternity to come.
If you are Orthodox, most priests/bishops/monks will tell you that single men have 2 choices: 1) find an Orthodox woman, get married, have a family or 2) join a monastery. Men like me don't fit well into either of those, so I have heard other priests (including my own) advise 3) live a life of celibacy, be as active in church as possible, pray often, read the Bible and the Lives of the Saints, and live a godly life. For option 3, spiritual life would come before career, for certain. Basically "monk-mode" while still in the world. Personally, after retirement I have considered doing some sort of missionary work abroad.

 

[Blade Runner]

If you are Orthodox, most priests/bishops/monks will tell you that single men have 2 choices: 1) find an Orthodox woman, get married, have a family or 2) join a monastery.

One of the things I'm suspicious about, that has been talked about a bit on the board but not that much, is what I feel (I don't know this) is the issue with Orthodox people trying to find their way in the west: we don't have a culture of age gap and it's too informed by modernity and feminism that people are willing to admit. Most decent priests will still be traditional and red pill, but they still don't really "get it" because they are traditionalists that got married but don't really know or admit that that's just not the case anymore, and hasn't been for 30+ years, regarding all younger or single women. That gets to what my feeling is: the older Orthodox priest would recommend some companion for you as a 40 year old man, for example, not a wife that's younger, and like we say on the forum, what's the point or what's in it for me if I'm not getting a family or someone who is attractive anymore? I don't think they really get this. A priest in Russia or Romania might be red pilled like we are, but I'm uncertain. All I know is that he'd likely be more realistic since there are probably a high percentage of significant age gaps in those countries, though they may only be 20%. That may or may not help an outsider, though, even if he is Orthodox and is seeking an Orthodox woman for marriage, for presumably the right reasons.

Personally, after retirement I have considered doing some sort of missionary work abroad.

That's great. I think helping certain Orthodox communities in the US and the world would be great, but I also don't consider "retirement" to be until age 60, which may be a flaw of mine, ha.

 

[Christos_NIKA]

That's great. I think helping certain Orthodox communities in the US and the world would be great, but I also don't consider "retirement" to be until age 60, which may be a flaw of mine, ha.

Well, 60 is not far around the corner for me, but due to new laws here I cannot retire until 67, so I've got more to do before then. I'll probably start spending more "vacation" time at that point, doing pilgrimages and perhaps volunteer work with mission groups. I'll need to research this.

 

[Kiwi]

If you are single, no family, no kids, no responsibilities, then I would say no, it's not worth busting your @$$. Why?
If you are non-religious, just pursue hobbies, maybe help the poor in some way, travel the world.
If you are religious, pursue spiritual goals, get right with Christ, focus on the eternity to come.
If you are Orthodox, most priests/bishops/monks will tell you that single men have 2 choices: 1) find an Orthodox woman, get married, have a family or 2) join a monastery. Men like me don't fit well into either of those, so I have heard other priests (including my own) advise 3) live a life of celibacy, be as active in church as possible, pray often, read the Bible and the Lives of the Saints, and live a godly life. For option 3, spiritual life would come before career, for certain. Basically "monk-mode" while still in the world. Personally, after retirement I have considered doing some sort of missionary work abroad.

As a younger man I spent quite a bit of time in the mission field. I'm not sure there's ever a right time to do it, but if you're retired and financially stable that would be a great option. It's possible leaving it that late might make you feel a tinge of regret that you didn't do this with your life sooner.

I would work and save, then go. Largely doing it my own way. I followed that pattern quite a bit for a number of years. It wasn't the best plan financially because I was constantly "rebuilding" in a sense. It also made the job back home become a grind and less meaningful due to the deep, meaningful challenges and adventure of the mission field. In a way it kind of ruins you for "normal life".
I'd tasted a way of life that wasn't rewarding financially - quite the opposite - but looking back it was easily the most rewarding time of my life as a single man.

There is a danger in that I couldn't find meaning in my normal work upon returning. I often think God wants us to rise above those feelings in our work. Mike Rowe talks about this kind of attitude quite a bit. People doing the jobs nobody else wants to do, and being content - and also making great money. Which is admirable. Also coming to the realisation the mission field is really where you are.

On the other hand, as already discussed in the thread, we should pursue that meaningful work and not settle. Gordon Ramsay has said "Whenever the job becomes too comfortable it's time to leave". It's clear to see he's lived out that principle with how many different things he does.
That way of looking at the world seems to have a lot of risk and courage required, yet also being aware of opportunity - something a comfortable job can prevent you from seeing i've found.

 

[Wutang]

Men like me don't fit well into either of those, so I have heard other priests (including my own) advise 3) live a life of celibacy, be as active in church as possible, pray often, read the Bible and the Lives of the Saints, and live a godly life. For option 3, spiritual life would come before career, for certain. Basically "monk-mode" while still in the world. Personally, after retirement I have considered doing some sort of missionary work abroad.

In the evangelical Protestant world traditionally (insert joke here about evangelicals not having tradition) there was typically a big emphasis on the importance of getting married and starting a family with a lot of the ministries within a church centered around this. In recent years, there's been a trend of these churches recognizing that in the current society there's going to be a big portion of people who aren't going to start families in both the secular as well as in the church world. I've been seeing an uptrend in talk in the last few years in these churches about how to live as a single person and how a single person can still glorify God and serve both the church and community sans family. I was at a service a few months ago where they profiled a member of the church who is a single guy in his 40s and serves as a small group leader. In the service they mentioned how even he spends a lot of time checking up on the other people in his small group, praying with and for them, counseling them when they come to him for help or advice on something, etc.

I think there definitely are some churches out there that have their pulse on the culture and know what's going on. What the single guy they profiled is doing I think is a good life path for a lot of Christians out there that are going to be walking the single life. This life will have challenges but so does the married life - as can be seen by the high amount of divorces. You can't avoid challenges no matter what path in life you take - the only thing that will change is what sort of challenges you will encounter. What I got from hearing this guy's story and the rest of the sermon was that it's important to still have a spiritual community and to be in fellowship with other believers. There's some special rare that can be a hermit and still be intimately connected with God but they are quite special - hence why quite a few saints are drawn from this set of people.

 

[Blade Runner]

Well, 60 is not far around the corner for me, but due to new laws here I cannot retire until 67, so I've got more to do before then. I'll probably start spending more "vacation" time at that point, doing pilgrimages and perhaps volunteer work with mission groups. I'll need to research this.

Yes, these ages are different for different people. I don't know what your situation is, but life does change. Did you find your 50s significantly different from your 40s?

 

[Blade Runner]

You can't avoid challenges no matter what path in life you take - the only thing that will change is what sort of challenges you will encounter. What I got from hearing this guy's story and the rest of the sermon was that it's important to still have a spiritual community and to be in fellowship with other believers.

I think the main problem is that you tend to be not treated as well socially. I'm not blaming anyone, but at least in America the married people do their thing with other community or neighborhood people, and regardless of whether they like them (in reality) or not.

The atomization part, therefore, is the hardest. That and the mundane of life once you've pretty much seen how work life isn't all that meaningful, big picture. I think that's why we've had the back and forth on the women and company ideas, since that kills two birds with one stone. But is disallowed largely in the west or USA, where all people try to do is act like you're even in the same ballpark as an old woman.

 

[analyst_green]

My intuition tells me living for decades as a single person outside a monastic community is going to be insanely difficult, especially in this day and age with temptation on every corner. Marriage is hard and monasticism is hard, but this takes some of the most difficult aspects of each path and puts them together. There's a reason it has never been part of our Orthodox tradition. The Church is even very skeptical of single men becoming parish priests, and they are rare because they tend to cause problems. If even a priest who has devoted himself to God
struggles so much, what are our chances?

Married men have a family and monks have their own "family". An unmarried man in the world will not have any family and will feel lonely and isolated. Monks struggle with lust but they are not around women so it's easier. Married men struggle with lust but at least they have their wives to help avoid fornication. An unmarried man in the world will both be tempted and have no outlet for his desire.

I doubt many of us are drawn to monasticism here, so that leaves marriage. But with the rarity of good women these days, compromises will likely be made in our selection of wife. We need to be careful that we don't reject the right woman if she comes along because she doesn't meet our ideal. I think that's the bottom line here, because I don't see many options. The other option is of course going overseas, but even there there's no guarantee.