Is it Worth Busting Your Ass in a Career?

[It_Is_My_Time]

This "responsibility burden" is very real in the workplace. The system will try to pull every ounce it can from your soul and body to extract monetary value from you.

Children increases this burden but helps in the mindset that you now have a greater purpose for the sacrifice. This helped me a lot.

At my weekend job, I am often asked if I am the manager. I am 12 years older than one manager and 20 years older than the other. I have been there for a LONG time, and people know me/recognize me/like me. They all assume I am the manager, they will come to me with an issue and then I say "let me get the manager". When they are confused and ask "why are you not the manager", I have referenced this movie many times.

I enjoy that job, I have very little responsibility. I don't make a lot, but then again, I don't do a lot, other than have a good time and stay busy. Responsibility is not rewarded with good pay nor the rights to defend yourself, it becomes a needless burden in the west.

 

[Blade Runner]

You can still suck it up, be miserable, and your kids survive but also be miserable. That isn't how I want to live and that isn't how I want my children to live either.

The miserable part is point of view. Everybody's baseline is different. I think the worst generations overall will have been people born from 2005 on, since they will have experienced a bizarre, confused world and a lot of spoiling on top of it, given the generations of parents that have been around for a while (and spoiling grandparents. The only thing good for them will be inheriting some money or a house, and even that won't be "good" for them since they didn't achieve something to get it as a reward.

What's more, can you really say life isn't worth living? That's sort of a leftist mindset, thinking that if life isn't "the way I think it should be" justifies not having kids, aborting them, etc.

I don't have those ideas, but I do consider the idea of it marriage and family are "worth it" from a quality point of view. Notice the difference: I'm willing to put in the work to do it, but the situation and genes, or suitable wife part has to be there. If not, I'm OK with "losing out" on that part of life because more and more I see that although family formation is an important part of life, in the long run and in the Kingdom of God, there are and will continue to be many types of new creation. The only reason I don't like part of that, though I do think it's the truth, is because I'm competitive and it seems silly to have a lot of gifts and abilities to be a good family man, while many have kids who are at least relatively, a joke. But hey, the whole thing is a mystery, indeed.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

The miserable part is point of view. Everybody's baseline is different. I think the worst generations overall will have been people born from 2005 on, since they will have experienced a bizarre, confused world and a lot of spoiling on top of it, given the generations of parents that have been around for a while (and spoiling grandparents. The only thing good for them will be inheriting some money or a house, and even that won't be "good" for them since they didn't achieve something to get it as a reward.

What's more, can you really say life isn't worth living? That's sort of a leftist mindset, thinking that if life isn't "the way I think it should be" justifies not having kids, aborting them, etc.

I don't have those ideas, but I do consider the idea of it marriage and family are "worth it" from a quality point of view. Notice the difference: I'm willing to put in the work to do it, but the situation and genes, or suitable wife part has to be there. If not, I'm OK with "losing out" on that part of life because more and more I see that although family formation is an important part of life, in the long run and in the Kingdom of God, there are and will continue to be many types of new creation. The only reason I don't like part of that, though I do think it's the truth, is because I'm competitive and it seems silly to have a lot of gifts and abilities to be a good family man, while many have kids who are at least relatively, a joke. But hey, the whole thing is a mystery, indeed.

Great points all around, and you are correct.

I guess by "a life I wouldn't want to live", I mean constantly working a job you hate, your time off being consumed with worry from the job you hate, and not being able to enjoy anything due to returning to the job you hate. That has been my life for about 25 years. The only thing that keeps me going is that I was born early enough, and with enough, to know I can retire out soon. If I was in the same position, but had the lack of head start that most of those younger than me have, I have no idea what I would do to keep on going.

Just my way of viewing things, we are all different. I just absolutely hate my job with a level in intensity that is hard to compare to almost anything else. I pray the rest of you don't deal with this in your life.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Great points all around, and you are correct.

I guess by "a life I wouldn't want to live", I mean constantly working a job you hate, your time off being consumed with worry from the job you hate, and not being able to enjoy anything due to returning to the job you hate. That has been my life for about 25 years. The only thing that keeps me going is that I was born early enough, and with enough, to know I can retire out soon. If I was in the same position, but had the lack of head start that most of those younger than me have, I have no idea what I would do to keep on going.

Just my way of viewing things, we are all different. I just absolutely hate my job with a level in intensity that is hard to compare to almost anything else. I pray the rest of you don't deal with this in your life.

Why don't you find a job you like?

Seems like this a product of your own action/inaction.

I work my butt off but I love my job. I've worked in a job I hated. I left as soon as possible and have continued an upward trajectory.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

Why don't you find a job you like?

Seems like this a product of your own action/inaction.

I work my butt off but I love my job. I've worked in a job I hated. I left as soon as possible and have continued an upward trajectory.

In this economy, I am just happy to have a job that pays well and seems to have job security. We have had layoffs, but they have been limited.

I honestly don't see anything out there that interests me. Physical labor is out, due to back and age. Sitting in an office for 40 hours a week in torture. I don't have the super high IQ to get a sweet gig from home and work in a high demand/high skill job. I just have to rough it out a few more years. I've done about 25 years of this prison sentence, if I can only make it a few more.

I pray everyone else finds some good/satisfaction in whatever they do for a job. If it provides you with a comfortable life and a family but also gives you satisfaction/drive/desire/accomplishment, then you have won at life.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

In this economy, I am just happy to have a job that pays well and seems to have job security. We have had layoffs, but they have been limited.

I honestly don't see anything out there that interests me. Physical labor is out, due to back and age. Sitting in an office for 40 hours a week in torture. I don't have the super high IQ to get a sweet gig from home and work in a high demand/high skill job. I just have to rough it out a few more years. I've done about 25 years of this prison sentence, if I can only make it a few more.

I pray everyone else finds some good/satisfaction in whatever they do for a job. If it provides you with a comfortable life and a family but also gives you satisfaction/drive/desire/accomplishment, then you have won at life.

I mean this with respect, but the issue is your outlook not the job itself.

I mean if you could do anything what would it be?

If your answer is nothing then there's not a lot to say.

Retirement should not be in your mind when you're chosing your job. Sure it's something you want to work for, but when you're in your working years you should be pursuing things you're passionate about ...

Better advice to young men is to be calculated when you're in a miserable situation and seek a way out.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

You really just need a job you're content with, and pays enough to accomplish the lifestyle you want. Don't mind waking up in the morning, don't hate Sunday night/dread Monday, etc.

I have had some miserable bosses in all different kinds of jobs, especially the type of work I do now. Many of them take it home with them and end up divorced. It's better to take less money if you have to, and be with a woman that's ok with that. The good thing about not having a family or mortgage right now is the ability to walk away and find something better.

 

[bubs]

For a guy approaching the final 1/3 of his career, my advice to myself today still applies to my advice at 23…find the highest paying job you can with the least amount of work and least amount stress and I’ll be my most happy person I can be. With a free peaceful mind, you can be present for your family, be creative with your spare time, pursue hobbies etc. If you mind is constantly wrapped around work, then your are enslaving a large portion of your years on this earth to being work focused, then you are selling your life for chasing money. But everyone is wired differently. I feel if a person is high energy, good at negotiating and has strong people skills, then starting a business or getting into sales is probably a good route to go. If you are naturally low energy and don’t have stong people skills, get a Govt job to maximize your wealth without having to do very much.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

I mean this with respect, but the issue is your outlook not the job itself.

I mean if you could do anything what would it be?

If your answer is nothing then there's not a lot to say.

Retirement should not be in your mind when you're chosing your job. Sure it's something you want to work for, but when you're in your working years you should be pursuing things you're passionate about ...

Better advice to young men is to be calculated when you're in a miserable situation and seek a way out.

This a great question. I honestly don't know. I mean I work a weekend job I love, but even if I worked it 60 hours a week, it wouldn't pay for a family. And the hours are extremely late and the pay is only if you are there and the total hours in a week max would be 40. So, it is more so "what would you like to do that would also pay enough to afford a family" and to that, I can't say.

That is part of the crux of this, when I started in my field, I figured I could get to X amount, quit, and do something lower key and be happy. But today, those low-key jobs don't even pay enough to pay the bills. Our economy is such a disaster.

I don't know enough about other fields, the pluses and minuses. Not much interests me, mostly due to burnout and we live in such a disgusting society. TBH, I enjoyed what I do for a living when I first started in it. Thank goodness I was not good with women at that age, or I would have ended up trapped in a bad place.

There are many reasons I went from enjoying what I do to hating it so much it paralyses every second on my existence. To sum it up, as our society got more disgusting, so did my job, it was a very parallel fall between the two.

As for young guys, you are correct, if you are miserable, try to calculate how to get out. I am too old and too far down the road to get out and I am close enough to retirement to just tough it out. But try to not do this, the burnout is very real, so try to calculate how to get out.

For young guys, you have two choices...

#1) Find yourself first, then find a wife. The issue here is that finding yourself could take the rest of your life. It is a very tough thing to accomplish for some, for others it come easy.

#2) Just accept you will be a slave, work away, and have a family young. This is also very tough, the first 10 or even 20 years will not be so bad, but as you age, and things start to hurt the grind really will wear on you.

Choose wisely.

 

[Batman]

If you are self employed and/or own the business yourself - YES.
If you work for someone else - NO.

Exactly, glad this was said in the first reply. Though I'd take it a step further and say even in the context of self-employment/freelancing/owning your own business, hard work is a small part of your actual success, and in some cases might not even be a factor at all.

"Working hard" your whole life for a company is great goal if your only goal in life is to work hard.

This is the "just world hypothesis" / "puritan work ethic" in action, one of the most effective gaslighting campaigns ever, and it's pervasiveness is in part due to families like Rockefellers.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

When taking advice from anyone...
Consider the source.

If the person telling you to work hard has the lifestyle and the things you want ... Listen.

If the person telling you to just wear the bare minimum prices of flare has the life you want..
Listen to them.

I wouldn't take financial advice from a bum, not would I take marriage advice form a 4x divorced guy.

So keep that in mind.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

When taking advice from anyone...
Consider the source.

If the person telling you to work hard has the lifestyle and the things you want ... Listen.

If the person telling you to just wear the bare minimum prices of flare has the life you want..
Listen to them.

I wouldn't take financial advice from a bum, not would I take marriage advice form a 4x divorced guy.

So keep that in mind.

Well, there some important points you have missed.

#1) I am pretty well off financially from extremely hard work. Not many here will be able to say they can retire before 50. I have put in a lot of hours, some of them sick, missed out on a lot of things others just take for granted, and always looked for investment opportunities.

#2) What works today or 10 years ago likely will not work in 10 more years. For anyone here that will have or has children, they will likely have it a lot tougher than you had it. So, don't grow into a boomer and just tell them to "work hard". There will be a lot of moving parts going forward.

#3) I've not told anyone to work hard or not to work hard. I said if the opportunity is there, then go for it and go hard. For many that opportunity never comes in our disgusting DEI system, where legal and illegal immigrants flood in and destroy the middle class. When those opportunities are not there, then pay yourself first. In other words, the company comes last, because they will still promote that 90 IQ DEI and think they can farm the work over to you for less pay.

#4) Back to #1, the things I say, I say with experience on both sides of the fence. I have both worked hard and said "to hell with it". The hard work for me didn't really pay off. The company I was at took it for granted. Should I have left? I don't know, I could have left and done better, I could have left, gotten laid off, ended up in a cycle of being on and off the bench, and never gotten anywhere. We never know. In my field it is just getting tougher and tougher, with less and less pay per COL.

If you have the opportunity to start/take over a small business you are passionate about, then give it your all. Not just for the money, but for something much bigger, a purpose in life. If not, and hard work isn't rewarded where you are at, look elsewhere and do as little as possible for those who take you for granted.

Really, at the end of the day, finding a purpose is the goal of life. That used to be simply being a good dad, a good neighbor, going to church, helping others, working your 40 hours and enjoying time with family. That is largely disappearing and the search to replace this first world society with a purpose in a growing degenerate world is going to be a huge obstacle to overcome. I'm closing in on 50 and still looking for that purpose.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Well, there some important points you have missed.

#1) I am pretty well off financially from extremely hard work. Not many here will be able to say they can retire before 50. I have put in a lot of hours, some of them sick, missed out on a lot of things others just take for granted, and always looked for investment opportunities.

#2) What works today or 10 years ago likely will not work in 10 more years. For anyone here that will have or has children, they will likely have it a lot tougher than you had it. So, don't grow into a boomer and just tell them to "work hard". There will be a lot of moving parts going forward.

#3) I've not told anyone to work hard or not to work hard. I said if the opportunity is there, then go for it and go hard. For many that opportunity never comes in our disgusting DEI system, where legal and illegal immigrants flood in and destroy the middle class. When those opportunities are not there, then pay yourself first. In other words, the company comes last, because they will still promote that 90 IQ DEI and think they can farm the work over to you for less pay.

#4) Back to #1, the things I say, I say with experience on both sides of the fence. I have both worked hard and said "to hell with it". The hard work for me didn't really pay off. The company I was at took it for granted. Should I have left? I don't know, I could have left and done better, I could have left, gotten laid off, ended up in a cycle of being on and off the bench, and never gotten anywhere. We never know. In my field it is just getting tougher and tougher, with less and less pay per COL.

If you have the opportunity to start/take over a small business you are passionate about, then give it your all. Not just for the money, but for something much bigger, a purpose in life. If not, and hard work isn't rewarded where you are at, look elsewhere and do as little as possible for those who take you for granted.

Really, at the end of the day, finding a purpose is the goal of life. That used to be simply being a good dad, a good neighbor, going to church, helping others, working your 40 hours and enjoying time with family. That is largely disappearing and the search to replace this first world society with a purpose in a growing degenerate world is going to be a huge obstacle to overcome. I'm closing in on 50 and still looking for that purpose.

Wasn't addressing my comments at you specifically.

Just a general comment... That is all

 

[Batman]

When taking advice from anyone...
Consider the source.

If the person telling you to work hard has the lifestyle and the things you want ... Listen.

If the person telling you to just wear the bare minimum prices of flare has the life you want..
Listen to them.

I wouldn't take financial advice from a bum, not would I take marriage advice form a 4x divorced guy.

So keep that in mind.

Sort of. This idea of "practice what you preach" has limitations. Seneca, the Roman Stoic philosopher, was criticized for not fully practicing what he preached (particularly, for having great wealth). But he directly addressed these criticisms by saying his philosophical beliefs on virtue were genuine, and the struggle to achieve the ideal "Stoic Sage" was a part of the journey itself. Related to this is the idea that "a fool who persists in his folly will become wise"... The information should not matter where it comes from. If two people gave the exact same advice, and one followed it, but the other didn't, does that change the information? I would say, judge the information itself, not the source.

Not sure if that's where you were going with that. On a more surface level I would still disagree to some extent though. I think you should take some advice from successful people with a grain of salt, often their own ego/arrogance doesn't allow them to admit all the moving parts that were a part of their success. The idea that "hard work" alone amounts to success is a ridiculous oversimplification. Surely there is plethora of other people who work just as hard and do the same things, but fail. And that's fine, life isn't fair, and i'm not saying that's a reason to ever give up. But to not acknowledge this is not taking in the full picture.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

When I started working, older guys would always tell me to work smarter, not harder. Great advice that should always be remembered. Sometimes working harder is smarter, but the older I get the more I'm realzing that's usually not the case (at least as an employee).

 

[Batman]

When I started working, older guys would always tell me to work smarter, not harder. Great advice that should always be remembered. Sometimes working harder is smarter, but the older I get the more I'm realzing that's usually not the case (at least as an employee).

Eventually you probably do have to work hard for some stretches of time, but it's not a lifelong goal or virtue to strive for by default. Most men end up having heart attacks right around the time they retire because they sacrificed so much in the name of hard work and their entire life slipped by only for them to die once it's over.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Sort of. This idea of "practice what you preach" has limitations. Seneca, the Roman Stoic philosopher, was criticized for not fully practicing what he preached (particularly, for having great wealth). But he directly addressed these criticisms by saying his philosophical beliefs on virtue were genuine, and the struggle to achieve the ideal "Stoic Sage" was a part of the journey itself. Related to this is the idea that "a fool who persists in his folly will become wise"... The information should not matter where it comes from. If two people gave the exact same advice, and one followed it, but the other didn't, does that change the information? I would say, judge the information itself, not the source.

Not sure if that's where you were going with that. On a more surface level I would still disagree to some extent though. I think you should take some advice from successful people with a grain of salt, often their own ego/arrogance doesn't allow them to admit all the moving parts that were a part of their success. The idea that "hard work" alone amounts to success is a ridiculous oversimplification. Surely there is plethora of other people who work just as hard and do the same things, but fail. And that's fine, life isn't fair, and i'm not saying that's a reason to ever give up. But to not acknowledge this is not taking in the full picture.

My point was simply that to consider someone worthy of advice in a category... Make sure they demonstrate the personification of the lifestyle you want to live.

I am super lucky, I've got a mentor that was a senior military officer and an executive of a fortune 100 company. I've sought his advice weekly and listened to him since he convinced me to go to my college and join the military.

His advice to me has always been to bust your ass early on, build a reputation, and leverage that to climb the ladder.

That's aligned with my goals and mentality. So it makes sense.

 

[Batman]

My point was simply that to consider someone worthy of advice in a category... Make sure they demonstrate the personification of the lifestyle you want to live.

I am super lucky, I've got a mentor that was a senior military officer and an executive of a fortune 100 company. I've sought his advice weekly and listened to him since he convinced me to go to my college and join the military.

His advice to me has always been to bust your ass early on, build a reputation, and leverage that to climb the ladder.

That's aligned with my goals and mentality. So it makes sense.

Yeah that's kind of what I figured you were getting at. I'm sure helpful mentors exist but it always struck me as a weird dynamic/relationship. But if you can find one who's actually insightful and articulate and gives good actionable advice that's obviously something everyone would benefit from.

Relevant 144p Seinfeld clip:

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

The one thing, and it is a big reason I am happy I don't have children yet, is the advice is to have kids and then work your butt off to provide for them. What about the fact that everything in the west is going right off the cliff and turning yourself into a slave so that your kids can have a decent life will barely make a dent in the hellscape of a world they will inherit?

Can't speak personally, but the Christian answer is to place your trust in God, and that He will provide. You could always be richer, you could always work more to provide your kids with more, but God will provide for your needs and theirs. This is what has been told to me when I asked your same question.

 

[Sandalwood Peak]

@It_Is_My_Time

The way we live molds us. If you say you hate your job, you hate society which are both valid opinions then you’re going to be molded by that. So what are you going to do when you no longer have the job you hate? Who are you going to be as a person? What is going to be your focus then?

In my personal opinion you’re at a very high risk of retreating into a bubble in your “retirement”. The easiest option for you is going to be to become a hermit. I don’t really see how at 50 a person just transforms into a family man after 30 years of a prison sentence that beat the life out of him.

We should always be seeking glory or at the very least to witness the glory of God. That’s what’s going to give you life so you can share it. If you’re not making people feel alive then you will hit a brick wall in all pursuits. You gather life or you can also say joy from your environment and you pass it on.