Donald Trump: Criticism & Debate Thread

Calm down, FrancisK. Trump is a divisive figure, so Trump threads always get a little heated. The man has his cult fans and his intractable critics, and I expect it will always be thus, long after he's gone. It is what it is. If you expect otherwise... well, as you said:

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I hear you but it's a bit much to be criticized for not criticizing someone enough, not the first time...
 
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I'm seeing the same arguments that have been repeating since at least 2018. In six years the discourse hasn't changed much while the clear downward trajectory of western civilization holds steady.

In politics, whether mainstream or so called "dissident", everyone's got a brand to sell, but no one can seem to take the reigns and correct course.

There are no winners in politics no matter what side you're on. Leftists aren't happy, their lives haven't improved, and they know it. The trannies, deviant perverts, the waves of immigrants that are being raised up on a pedestal are simply being used as a cudgel to destroy the last remnants of societal cohesion, and will receive the same treatment or worse once their usefulness has run out.

Those in power are using every available attack vector to beat people down, keep them stratified and fighting amongst themselves, and competing with each other for scraps, while they print money out of thin air to fund their operation.

Without societal cohesion, investing too much into politics is like putting money in an arcade claw machine.
 
I'm seeing the same arguments that have been repeating since at least 2018. In six years the discourse hasn't changed much while the clear downward trajectory of western civilization holds steady.

In politics, whether mainstream or so called "dissident", everyone's got a brand to sell, but no one can seem to take the reigns and correct course.

There are no winners in politics no matter what side you're on. Leftists aren't happy, their lives haven't improved, and they know it. The trannies, deviant perverts, the waves of immigrants that are being raised up on a pedestal are simply being used as a cudgel to destroy the last remnants of societal cohesion, and will receive the same treatment or worse once their usefulness has run out.

Those in power are using every available attack vector to beat people down, keep them stratified and fighting amongst themselves, and competing with each other for scraps, while they print money out of thin air to fund their operation.

Without societal cohesion, investing too much into politics is like putting money in an arcade claw machine.
I think what might be irritating people this go around with trump is how he doesn't really have any clear message this time.

In 2015 you could really rally behind his messages. This time he seems to just be all over the map.
 
I hear you but it's a bit much to be criticized for not criticizing someone enough, not the first time...
I would try to reframe your understanding of the criticism. I would that this criticism somehow finds it's way into Trump's ear and that it would be constructive. I don't like pledging unyielding support because it takes the force away from the criticism. Our support of any candidate can't just be a gimme, that kind of attitude has gotten us where we are now, it's time to approach this whole thing more critically. Trump has certainly earned his share of criticism and he needs the voices out there to pull him further to the right.
 
I dont get the "buy us some time" argument for voting Trump. First of all, what is four years in the history of a nation/civilization. And are you really so sure that this won't result in the opposite? I mean Covid started in 2019, so it didn't buy us time the last go around.

A lot of things can happen in four years. If Trump is able to get some things done who knows how many doors that will open for people willing to fight for the future. The next generation. In battle, which is what life is, you have to think long term and try to make the battlefield as advantageous as possible for your successors.

If a Trump defeat would be better in the long term I'd like to hear a rational argument for that.
 
I dont get the "buy us some time" argument for voting Trump. First of all, what is four years in the history of a nation/civilization. And are you really so sure that this won't result in the opposite? I mean Covid started in 2019, so it didn't buy us time the last go around.
I see the only fast-track forward to saving the nation is if Trump can get vital cases pushed through the Supreme Court, where the conservatives at least still have a majority. That might be the only lasting thing of consequence he could get done in four years. Everything else can just be reversed in the next administration/regime.
 
In battle, which is what life is, you have to think long term and try to make the battlefield as advantageous as possible for your successors...
Right. The US political process is a blend of long term and short term effects because of the potential for new players after every term of office, and the fact that usually there are only 2 choices of who will be in office each term. If you want to think long term, you have to see it as a stair-step process that never ends, rather than as waiting for the "perfect" office holder who will do all the things one would, ideally, want to see done.

We only get the two choices, and one way or another the process will march onward, relentlessly. Maybe one person is a bit better or maybe moderately better or maybe it is the savior of our republic we have all been waiting for. In my lifetime there has never been the latter who had a remote chance of getting into office. The best I have ever seen has been a moderately better candidate which Trump is. Maybe if he gets in he will halt some bad things and start some good things, and for four years we have a leveling or even upward process in some areas. Maybe he gets into office and pulls an about-face on Israel (presidents doing an about-face are pretty common in American history). Trump undoubtedly will be the only possible office holder offering a chance at anything good.
 
A lot of things can happen in four years. If Trump is able to get some things done who knows how many doors that will open for people willing to fight for the future. The next generation. In battle, which is what life is, you have to think long term and try to make the battlefield as advantageous as possible for your successors.

If a Trump defeat would be better in the long term I'd like to hear a rational argument for that.
I am not saying to vote for Trump, nor I am saying to vote for Biden/DNC candidate. I have realized in the big picture it doesn't matter. But to field this question, of why voting against Trump is better long term and keep the thread moving, I will put up an answer towards this angle.

- The Cult of Personality Trump carries is beyond anything I have seen. I don't get it. Probably 30 to 40% of Trump supporters are hypnotized by his weird speech pattern. This is both dangerous and damaging long term to getting the conservatives to do what is right to save this country. Right now these hypnotized drones are supporting the LGBTQ movement, because "the DNC are the real bigots". And this is the scary thing, Trump is able to mainstream a lot of fringe far left ideas because "he has to appeal to all to win the election". I don't' think anyone here is this way, but we all see it and have to shake our heads at seeing fellow conservatives act like mindless liberals.

- Israel. Israel is losing their war against Hamas and Hezbollah. The Houthi's are still sinking ships despite us droppings 10's of millions in bombs on them. Iran is more powerful than ever and a real threat with their advanced weapons. And Russia/China see's a chance to sink the USA in the Middle East. There are rumors than Israel plans to start a full-scale war with Hezbollah to push them back into Lebanon. I think everyone here is well aware that Israel is behaving in an immoral fashion, committing heinous war crimes in our name, and losing at the same time in remarkable fashion. Israel is criticizing Biden for not helping them enough. Trump vows to help them more. If there is a chance at a new war breaking out, it will be in the Middle East and Trump is proudly far more likely to cause/support it.

- Trump wants to increase legal immigration. Legal immigration is a much bigger threat to the middle class and destructive of the nation that illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is bad, but they do keep low skill labor affordable, keeping small businesses alive, and they can be removed easily when needed. Legal immigrants come here and day 1 start to steal from you and your family and destroy the middle class. Illegal immigrants also help give immigration a bad name and gets color-blind Whites to realize that they are only 9% of the world's population and their homelands are being destroyed. Legal immigration causes Whites to say, "they are all just like me" and welcome more to feel good about themselves.

The other issues I see little to no difference in the two parties.

The economy was wrecked by Trump printing $5 trillion and handing it to Blackrock while mismanaging the country during Covid. It can't be fixed without a true fascist uprising that takes that stolen money back and gives it to the people. No one running for office will do this, thus the economy cannot be fixed.

The social fabric of this country was wrecked when BLM burned down half the country and went unpunished and then handed money from the same Wall Street entities Trump bailed out. Trump is still specifically pandering to Blacks and ignores that Whites exist, so Trump's poll numbers among Whites is decreasing.

Obviously, the DNC has done nothing to fix these things in 4 years, but Trump is just as guilty as they are in this mess.

Trump was a Democrat as a personal businessman. Trump is taking ideas that were considered "extreme left wing" when Clinton ran in the 1990's and main streaming it into the hearts and minds of the average conservative voter. No one has done more to legitimize the far-left ideas among the right-wing voters than Trump has done. If Romney or Bush was running on "most pro-Israel" or "increase immigration" or "hand Blacks and Hispanics even more of our tax dollars despite them already being a major drain on the system", they would be boo'ed off the stage and have a 25% voting support. But due to Trump, being Trump, he will win this election based on these premises.

Don't take my word for it, take Trump's own words

 
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Trump's pandering to his audience is getting out of control. At this rate, the next time he gives a speech to a Muslim crowd he will end by declaring Jihad on the West.


Overall, Trump's proposal is not ideal, but it's a big improvement over what we have now.

First of all, almost always, foreigners pay out of pocket for our overpriced university degrees. They do not get Federal loans 99% of the time, as far as I am aware. This means that the amount of people who will be able to pay for a 4-year degree, find a job, and stay, will be less damaging than the H1-B program, since H1-Bs do not need to have graduated from the USA - they can go some dirt poor college with no loans, then come in and take an American job.

Additionally, America will be pulling in children of rich foreigners, since it's not cheap to pay for a university here out of pocket. As such, these college immigrants won't be gang-raping kids and causing mass crime like the open borders illegals do because they are from well-to-do families. On top of this, illegal immigrants vote in huge numbers, because voting laws aren't enforced, which is why Demonrats love them so much.

Currently, America has close to 750K foreign students each year: https://www.statista.com/statistics/237689/international-students-in-the-us-by-academic-level/

Nearly all of these students pay out of pocket, and are probably 60-80% women. Furthermore, at least 1/3 to 1/2 are from Europe if I had to guess. So it's not like we're substantially changing demographics. BUT, if we consider 1/4 of these students to graduate each year, it means we'll be adding around 250K greencards per year. It will create more competition in the American job market for high paying jobs.

Additionally, since most college graduates are women, by giving college degree holders a green card we will be importing huge numbers of young, well-off, educated women into the USA. By comparison, H1-B are mostly men from poor black and brown countries. This is an improvement.

2-year undergraduate degrees for a green card seems like a joke, wide open for abuse, and that should be thrown out. But in for 4-year degrees, and graduate degrees, that's a big improvement over the H1-B system which takes low-skilled slaves from around the world at random.

If Trump's immigration policy were to be put into place fully, where zero illegals can come, but college degree holders are given greencards, we would still see a net reduction in immigration to America by over 95%. However, it is unclear if Trump would make any changes to the normal greencard process which is open to all kinds of abuse, but I assume Trump would want changes since Stephen Miller is Trump's immigration Czar.

That said, despite how Trump's immigration policy would just import tons of college educated women at the expense of the rest of the world (which is a positive for American men, no matter how you slice it), we all know that Democrats will fight this tooth and nail in Congress because there is no way they will relinquish the massive immigration hordes pouring over the border right now.

Trump is merely offering a compromise on the immigration issue to win over moderate voters, and conservatives who reject this because they cannot become dictators and get everything they want are dooming themselves and their country by rejecting common sense. I would much rather have hordes of hot young babes immigrating to American than barbarian rapeugees by the millions.
 
I dont get the "buy us some time" argument for voting Trump. First of all, what is four years in the history of a nation/civilization. And are you really so sure that this won't result in the opposite? I mean Covid started in 2019, so it didn't buy us time the last go around.

From the time of Trump's first election to the end of COVID, tons of dangerous people died off, like John McCain or Henry Kissinger. In 4-more years of Trump we may even see the deaths of George Soros or Joe Biden himself.

Time is NOT on our enemy's side. Time is a weapon we can use against the gerontocracy. Conversely, if they continue to rule over us until their death, they will be able to do untold damage to us via war and illegal immigration.

- Israel. Israel is losing their war against Hamas and Hezbollah. The Houthi's are still sinking ships despite us droppings 10's of millions in bombs on them. Iran is more powerful than ever and a real threat with their advanced weapons. And Russia/China see's a chance to sink the USA in the Middle East. There are rumors than Israel plans to start a full-scale war with Hezbollah to push them back into Lebanon. I think everyone here is well aware that Israel is behaving in an immoral fashion, committing heinous war crimes in our name, and losing at the same time in remarkable fashion. Israel is criticizing Biden for not helping them enough. Trump vows to help them more. If there is a chance at a new war breaking out, it will be in the Middle East and Trump is proudly far more likely to cause/support it.

We don't know what Trump means by "helping Israel." From what I gather, Trump believes these wars in the Middle East are bad for Isreal's image, and therefore, Trump wants to end these wars to help their image. Trump will still likely be the anti-war candidate because he is seeing that these wars are hurting Israel, and not actually helping them.

- Trump wants to increase legal immigration. Legal immigration is a much bigger threat to the middle class and destructive of the nation that illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is bad, but they do keep low skill labor affordable, keeping small businesses alive, and they can be removed easily when needed. Legal immigrants come here and day 1 start to steal from you and your family and destroy the middle class. Illegal immigrants also help give immigration a bad name and gets color-blind Whites to realize that they are only 9% of the world's population and their homelands are being destroyed. Legal immigration causes Whites to say, "they are all just like me" and welcome more to feel good about themselves.

This is just plain wrong, the illegals suck up public services, cause mass traffic, skyrocket housing and rental prices, pollute the landscape, cause giant crimewaves, and, worst of all, vote by the millions completely ensuring our slavery if this is not stopped.

Your TDS is so bad you've completely lost touch with reality at this point.
 
This is just plain wrong, the illegals suck up public services, cause mass traffic, skyrocket housing and rental prices, pollute the landscape, cause giant crimewaves, and, worst of all, vote by the millions completely ensuring our slavery if this is not stopped.

Your TDS is so bad you've completely lost touch with reality at this point.
Legal immigrants do all the same things, other than greatly increase crime directly but then it increases indirectly by them lowing middle class wags and opportunities for native born Americans who then turn to crime.

Both legal and illegal immigration are bad, and largely for the very same reasons.
 
Legal immigrants do all the same things, other than greatly increase crime directly but then it increases indirectly by them lowing middle class wags and opportunities for native born Americans who then turn to crime.

Both legal and illegal immigration are bad, and largely for the very same reasons.

I think the staff at ICE and the CBP and citizens on the border would disagree with that. There's a difference between having some control over who comes in and having none. And one is a crime and the other isn't.

But I agree that there needs to be an overhaul of legal immigration.
 
I think the staff at ICE and the CBP and citizens on the border would disagree with that. There's a difference between having some control over who comes in and having none. And one is a crime and the other isn't.

But I ageee that there needs to an overhaul of legal immigration.
Both are a crime against humanity, in that it is against Christianity (Tower of Babel) and is done to enrich the satanic elites at the expense of the former Christian middle class. Just our satanic "justice" system says one is legal and says the other is "illegal" so they can treat them like literal slaves.

There should be a complete immigration moratorium, but that would mean that the middle class would have some recovery and the satanic elites will never allow it.
 
I dont get the "buy us some time" argument for voting Trump. First of all, what is four years in the history of a nation/civilization. And are you really so sure that this won't result in the opposite? I mean Covid started in 2019, so it didn't buy us time the last go around.
The buy us some time argument is personal. If he gets in it will give us personally more time to make money and prepare.

I just need a bit more time before the deep state crashes the economy out of spite. I don't give a damn about the bigger political picture at this point. It's too far gone.
 
The buy us some time argument is personal. If he gets in it will give us personally more time to make money and prepare.

I just need a bit more time before the deep state crashes the economy out of spite. I don't give a damn about the bigger political picture at this point. It's too far gone.

If you're preparing to move from the states I might see that point. But if you want to save the US it's not gonna make any difference. I support the choice to move/live in Switzerland, as I see it as a haven for the super-rich. And they won't destroy that since they need places to live and stash their wealth etc. It's an eye of the hurricane you might say.
 
If you're preparing to move from the states I might see that point. But if you want to save the US it's not gonna make any difference. I support the choice to move/live in Switzerland, as I see it as a haven for the super-rich. And they won't destroy that since they need places to live and stash their wealth etc. It's an eye of the hurricane you might say.
I'm already here in Switzerland and established here.

I just want to be more prepared than I currently am. Despite the decline the US is still the forerunner for what is to come worldwide.
 
Prove this point.
Prove that bringing in more middle-class people, increases COL, decreases wages, and which then causes more stress, more resentment and eventually more violence?

52% of legal immigrant households use welfare. So, we bring them here, destroy our civilization in the process, then our taxes go to pay them to exist while our roads and bridges go unmaintained and elderly people have to choose between electricity and doctor visits on their fixed income.

 
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