Who does this? People throw this charge around yet literally no one does it. Just imaginary nonsense from the TDS folks
Donald Trump: Criticism & Debate Thread
- Thread starter Caduceus
- Start date
-
- Tags
- public figures zionist
Who does this? People throw this charge around yet literally no one does it. Just imaginary nonsense from the TDS folks
Thank you for proving my point.
Zero examples again, the best you can do is find some random on twitter or something... I'm talking about people here, on this board, who do what you claim. Or ordinary people in the real world even, not internet trolls.
The syllogism must have gone over my head.
If you want to start lying and accusing others of things that are not true, go ahead, I am a patient man, but do remember, I am not tolerant.
There is no large voice on the right who has not enjoyed or at least seen Trumps victory as preferable, even Fuentes was pleased and I suspect more went on in his meeting with Trump and Kanye than we know.
If you will start lying and accusing others, I will cease holding back my paranoia, and start making assumptions.
The only purpose of this behaviour would be either to attack others out of frustration, or to deliberately sow division and discontent. The latter is the act of a leftist infiltrator, not a good person.
See that you don't do the lefts job for them.
This is a false dichotomy. Catholic and Orthodox teaching both affirm that individual moral agency extends into all spheres of life, including political decisions. The quotes are self-evident, and there is no shortage of them pertaining to this moral conundrum.
St. Basil the Great: “He who allows oppression shares in the sin of the oppressor.” This applies to political systems that perpetuate evil. By endorsing them through “compromise,” we risk complicity in their sin.
Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 1778): “Conscience is a judgment of reason whereby the human person recognizes the moral quality of a concrete act.”
Politics is not exempt from this judgment. Supporting a lesser evil remains an evil act if it perpetuates injustice or opposes God’s law.
This is a misreading of Matthew 5:39, where Christ teaches us to avoid personal vengeance, not to passively accept systemic evil.
James 4:7: “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” We are called to resist evil in all its forms, including political systems that oppose God’s law. Passive acceptance of evil is contrary to the Gospel.
St. John Chrysostom: “It is not only permissible but necessary to resist evil that threatens the souls of others. To do otherwise is to partake in their destruction.”
Christ’s teaching in Matthew 22:21 “Render to Caesar what is Caesar’s” is not an endorsement of all earthly governance. It is a call to discern what belongs to God versus what belongs to human systems.
Paying taxes is an involuntary obligation imposed by the state and does not equate to endorsing its actions. Voting, however, is a voluntary act that signifies moral approval of a candidate or system.
Yes I do agree with you here. We cannot be sinless but through prayer and the sacraments and a strong commitment to God's laws we can keep the presence of evil away from our personal thoughts and actions and intentions.
Choosing the lesser of two evils perpetuates a cycle of moral compromise that normalizes sin.
St. Maximus the Confessor: “To choose evil, even the lesser, is to align oneself with sin. The path of the Christian is to reject evil altogether, no matter the cost.”
Expediency is a rejection of the Christian call to holiness. Matthew 5:48: “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” The Christian duty is not to compromise but to witness against evil, working to replace corrupt systems with those rooted in God’s law.
The goal is not utopia but faithful witness. St. John of Kronstadt: “Christians are not called to make the world perfect but to make it better through their example, actions, and resistance to sin.”
Augustine’s City of God acknowledges the imperfection of earthly governance but does not endorse perpetual compromise with evil. Instead, he calls for Christians to strive for the highest good within their societies: “Justice being taken away, then, what are kingdoms but great robberies?”
Augustine does not advocate choosing “lesser evils” but working to align earthly systems with divine justice whenever possible.
Regarding expediency directly, St. Nicholas of Serbia wrote: “The goal of a Christian society is not expediency but the alignment of its laws and governance with the law of God.”
To choose expediency over righteousness is to abandon the transformative mission of Christianity in the world. Expediency may be the default for fallen human systems, but it is not the standard for Christians. Our call is to reject evil, witness to the truth, and work toward governance that reflects God’s law, even if it means abstaining from participation in corrupt systems.
Yes, Christ’s Kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36), but Christians are called to act as “salt of the earth” (Matthew 5:13) to preserve goodness and resist corruption. Orthodox saints such as St. Mark of Ephesus resisted political compromises that endangered the entire faith, showing that Christians must strive for righteousness even in imperfect circumstances.
St. Augustine’s City of God does not endorse the notion of “choosing the lesser of evils.” Instead, it emphasizes that earthly kingdoms, even at their best, are imperfect shadows of God’s Kingdom. Augustine calls Christians to prioritize the eternal City of God over the temporal City of Man: “The two cities were created by two kinds of love: the earthly city by love of self, even to the contempt of God; the heavenly city by love of God, even to the contempt of self.” (City of God, Book XIV, Chapter 28). Choosing the “lesser evil” perpetuates the City of Man by normalizing moral compromise and aligning the Christian conscience with systems contrary to God’s justice.
Yes it is correct that politics involves a battle between good and evil, but you misrepresent the Christian response. We are called to act as witnesses to truth and righteousness, not to perpetuate cycles of moral compromise because its pragmatic. St. Maximus the Confessor warns against this kind of pragmatism: “Compromise with evil, no matter how small, corrupts the soul and blinds it to the greater good.”
By repeatedly choosing the lesser of evils we normalize evil in our societies. Over time, the “lesser evil” becomes the new standard, and the moral horizon shifts further away from God’s law. This is mentioned in Proverbs 14:12: “There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death.”
Instead of choosing the lesser evil we should work to build systems and structures that reflect God’s law. This includes abstaining from participation in corrupt systems when no righteous option exists.
St. John Chrysostom: “The greatest kindness one can show to a city is not to tolerate its vices but to root them out.”
By rejecting the lesser evil doctrine, we refuse to allow Satan’s dominion over the world to dictate our choices. Instead, we align our actions with Christ, who overcame evil not through compromise but through steadfast righteousness.
Keeping this relevant to Donald Trump and the Republicans, supporting the “lesser evil” does not eliminate evil; it institutionalizes it under a different guise. The Republican Party has mastered the art of pandering to Christian conservatives while advancing the same ultimate goals of spiritual and demographic replacement.
St. Basil the Great: “A small evil tolerated opens the door to greater ones. He who seeks Heaven must walk steadfastly in the way of Christ, not the crooked paths of expediency.”
Republican leaders never even acknowledge White Americans as a legitimate demographic with cultural and spiritual concerns, except to scold them as “supremacists” for resisting these changes. Supporting Republicans who perpetuate the same long-term harms as Democrats, albeit more slowly, enacts the systemic erosion of Christian values.
The modern Republican version of Christianity has its roots severed from its historical and theological foundation. Spawned from Theodor Herzl’s zionist vision, it has been hijacked into a tool for serving the modern state of israel rather than Jesus Christ. We all know this here. These so-called Christians worship the political interests of jews over the Gospel, ignoring the entire history of Christianity before the zionist state. This blasphemous distortion reduces faith to agitprop, creating soldiers for israeli wars rather than disciples of Christ. True Christianity must reject this severed-root servitude and return to the fullness of its faith rooted in Christ and the Church,not in the political machinations of modern zionism. Your lesser-evil choice would kill all of us the world over before even thinking of abandoning its zionist overlord.
Your dismissive tone does a disservice to the richness of this discussion. Matters of theology and conscience require thoughtful engagement, not reductive jabs. The time has long passed the necessity for Christians to abandon this system that perpetuates their replacement and destruction. Instead of voting for the lesser evil, and encouraging others to do the same, we must work to create an alternative grounded in Christian values, resisting both parties’ agendas.
I’m not advocating for utopia but for something far more grounded. A return to Christian leadership in Christian lands, guided by biblical principles, not the compromises of those who pander to agendas that erode faith and heritage. It’s not about creating perfection but restoring order where leaders serve God first, not the demands of jews, shabbos manipulators, LGBT ideologues, or the heathen dark hordes. The Kingdom of Heaven is not of this world, but our lands and leaders should still reflect its values. Prior to the second half of the 20th century, we still had that. We can have a better deal than this jewish serfdom we currently suffer under, but in the realities of the 21st century, it will not be won by voting and complicity.
Pretty sure the sentiment around here is that Trump is simply better than the alternative so in that vein he should have support, not much more than that this isn't 2016. The divide here is between the men that have something to lose and would like things to get better and those that just want everything to burn to the ground as if it will somehow make their lives better.....which it will not. The third group are non Americans and honestly I can't even figure out what their deal is other than to say they don't like the idea of trump doing things which are good for the USA and may hurt their countries, apparently they are allowed to be patriotic but we as Americans are not, or they just are so bombarded with liberal propaganda against trump in their home countries as there is no counter balance and they don't know what the actual situation is here in the USA.
Actually, that's not too unlikely. The propaganda is insane, especially in Europe. It's nonstop too. I don't really get it. Why do they hate Trump so much? Maybe it actually is making them money, so they are profiteering off the propaganda and walking it back would hurt their pockets?
I don't think it's nefarious, sure we may have a few unhinged bad apples but we also have many more good men here I'm not going to say just because you're not an American and you don't like trump there is something else behind it. We all think we're intelligent men and we are impervious to manipulation but there was a time when I myself hated ALL muslims and thought they were my enemy, there was a time when I thought we should go to war and nuke anyone and everyone that the media called our enemy, there was a time that even though I didn't vote for him I thought obama being elected could be a good thing because it would calm black people down, in that same breath there was even a time when I supported Bush......it's not so easy to see through things when EVERYTHING around you is telling you to think a certain way. Labeling yourself a conservative or a Christian doesn't make you impervious to it.
I always think back to the group of canadian girls I encountered in Mexico a few years ago at my resort who out of nowhere started telling me how horrible trump is thinking it would endear themselves to me and when I laughed and told them not to worry about my countrys politics they lost their minds and couldn't understand how a person who presented myself as I did could possibly support him.....they just automatically assumed everyone in the USA who had positive standing in the world also hated trump. Mind you in the next breath these girls started telling me about how happy they are to be away from the "stinky indians" who have taken over their country, they just didn't have any sense of what was going on in the USA beyond the propaganda as that is all they knew.
In the end I do believe we're all on the same side, most of us anyway.
@MusicForThePiano
You continue to confuse individual agency with collective compromise. You or I cannot change the wills of others. They will do evil no matter what we do, and, as such, we can only help them as much as possible by choosing the lesser of evils whilst arguing for something even better.
But to do nothing fails our responsibilities Christ gave us, and Chrysostom explains to us (right from your quote...):
St. John Chrysostom: “It is not only permissible but necessary to resist evil that threatens the souls of others. To do otherwise is to partake in their destruction.”
Thus, we fail to vote, and Democrats get in, and end up killing billions with WW3, then that is our fault for not voting to try and prevent it. This is not choosing the lesser of evils within our personal life, which only involves our singular will, but, involves the wills of millions is therefore not something whose outcome we can be fully held accountable for. We can only choose the most practical option as pertains public life, since to not participate endangers our Neighbors. Likewise, the bad side effects of any party are also negated by the fact that we did not choose them, but they instead foisted upon us.
These are the same principles as to why we must pay the tax. Paying the tax is not only the lesser evil with regards to public life, and, in addition, no one is responsible for how those taxes are misused.
As for the evils that come in with any party, as all men are sinners and therefore all parties will be sinful, it is something we willfully submit ourselves to so that we may overcome it. Democracy is an evil and good Christians submit themselves to that evil in order to overcome it.
You are wrong about what it means to not resist evil, it is far more than mere vengeance, more from Chrysostom:
catenabible.com
Thus, all of your other points are moot, the central premise revolves around individual agency vs. collective compromise, which with voting means we have to vote for the least of evils or else our Neighbors suffer even more. As for the other evils, we suffer them for our Neighbors sake as well.
You continue to confuse individual agency with collective compromise. You or I cannot change the wills of others. They will do evil no matter what we do, and, as such, we can only help them as much as possible by choosing the lesser of evils whilst arguing for something even better.
But to do nothing fails our responsibilities Christ gave us, and Chrysostom explains to us (right from your quote...):
St. John Chrysostom: “It is not only permissible but necessary to resist evil that threatens the souls of others. To do otherwise is to partake in their destruction.”
Thus, we fail to vote, and Democrats get in, and end up killing billions with WW3, then that is our fault for not voting to try and prevent it. This is not choosing the lesser of evils within our personal life, which only involves our singular will, but, involves the wills of millions is therefore not something whose outcome we can be fully held accountable for. We can only choose the most practical option as pertains public life, since to not participate endangers our Neighbors. Likewise, the bad side effects of any party are also negated by the fact that we did not choose them, but they instead foisted upon us.
These are the same principles as to why we must pay the tax. Paying the tax is not only the lesser evil with regards to public life, and, in addition, no one is responsible for how those taxes are misused.
As for the evils that come in with any party, as all men are sinners and therefore all parties will be sinful, it is something we willfully submit ourselves to so that we may overcome it. Democracy is an evil and good Christians submit themselves to that evil in order to overcome it.
You are wrong about what it means to not resist evil, it is far more than mere vengeance, more from Chrysostom:
John Chrysostom on Matthew 5:39 - Catena Bible & Commentaries
For this reason Jesus has also added, “But I say to you, do not resist the evil one.” He did not say “do not resist your brother” but “the evil one”! We are authorized to dare to act in the presence of evil through Christ’s influence. In this way he relaxes and secretly removes most of our anger...
catenabible.com
Thus, all of your other points are moot, the central premise revolves around individual agency vs. collective compromise, which with voting means we have to vote for the least of evils or else our Neighbors suffer even more. As for the other evils, we suffer them for our Neighbors sake as well.
It's because the oligarchy fear a Trump like character the most in Europe.
He's probably just confusing them because, technically, they are the same thing.
Matthew 17:20
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Somewhat related to the debate above, I have a friend who is married to a Syrian Christian woman. I was asking who her family voted for in this election and she said it was Trump. I asked if Trump's big Israel support bothered them and she said that while they generally view Israel unfavorably, they also realized that the US is going to be biased in favor of Israel no matter what and given that isn't going to change they decided to vote for the candidate that was closer to their views in other areas.
If I was going to write something to support her position, I would say that with US politics there are certain issues where there is broad agreement among the ruling class and the consensus isn't going to change barring something drastic happening or the zeitgeist shifting in the long term. Israel support is one of them. Not only does who you vote for not matter when it comes to these issues, you choosing to not vote out of a sense of principle will not change anything either. The evil will happen whether you vote or not vote, it is something that is already baked into the end-result. If you are not voting out a principle that you refuse to participate in any sort of government that is a monarchy, it will exactly zero impact on preventing evil from happening. However, there are certain issues where you can have an impact depending on your vote even if that impact is a magnitude of .00000000001. I do not think it's a sin in the theological sense or bad in a non-spiritual sense to vote in this case.
If I was going to write something to support her position, I would say that with US politics there are certain issues where there is broad agreement among the ruling class and the consensus isn't going to change barring something drastic happening or the zeitgeist shifting in the long term. Israel support is one of them. Not only does who you vote for not matter when it comes to these issues, you choosing to not vote out of a sense of principle will not change anything either. The evil will happen whether you vote or not vote, it is something that is already baked into the end-result. If you are not voting out a principle that you refuse to participate in any sort of government that is a monarchy, it will exactly zero impact on preventing evil from happening. However, there are certain issues where you can have an impact depending on your vote even if that impact is a magnitude of .00000000001. I do not think it's a sin in the theological sense or bad in a non-spiritual sense to vote in this case.
Does Scripture actually endorse monarchy? The Israelites asked the prophet Samuel to anoint a king for them and he warned them about the negatives that would result from having a king rule over them. When they insist they want a king he relents but I would hardly see this as an enthusiastic endorsement of monarchy. It seems more like "okay fine but don't say I didn't warn you" type of thing.
Should Orthodox clergy in Russia be allowed to bless Putin or perform actions that might be interpreted as supportive of the current Russian state given that even if Russia isn't a liberal democracy, it still is far from being a monarchy and Putin isn't King or Emperor Putin but is rather President Putin and still derives his power from claiming that he is being voted for by the mass majority voting of Russians instead of having an archbishop crowning him.
The cool thing is, that Trump's first term was so bad, and his campaign so Reagan watered down garbage and his appointees anti-White traitors, that he is going to crash and burn and either have to actually do something right or it will collapse on his watch.
Last edited:
The guy in charge of AI is not the guy in charge of immigration, what are you ranting about?
Either we shut down immigration or we crash the middle class and the country. Trump has to make that final decision. I am happy, the fake Reaganism conservatism is over, the can has been kicked to the end of the road, and too many know and have righteous anger towards the traitors.
The country was a lot better during Trump's first term. Everything wasn't so damn expensive either.
I don't believe Trump will save the US and he has surrounded himself with bad people in the past. But I'm glad he will be President again and would take him over almost everyone else. At least he isn't a pussy like most Republicans.
I don't believe Trump will save the US and he has surrounded himself with bad people in the past. But I'm glad he will be President again and would take him over almost everyone else. At least he isn't a pussy like most Republicans.
Well, if you take out the worst year in the country's history, 2020, then this is accurate. Much less massive inflation caused by him bailing out Blackrock Financial in the spring of 2020. What will he do to fix inflation? Bringing more people here, like he is bragging about doing, will bring down wages and bring up COL, so that will only make things worse. What are his other plans? Does he have any plan to fix healthcare and the insane costs of it? Or the situation in the Middle East where we are getting our asses kick and going bankrupt fighting for his favorite country, Israel? What about the situation with farmers going under, and knowing Ag is the largest business sector in the USA, knowing if he doesn't do something quick the entire economy will crumble when that domino falls.