Discussing Hell and Eternal Damnation

[BrotherAugustine]

Is there any specific writings on what the experiences of virtuous pagans in their afterlife state that you would recommend to study on this topic? I was wondering how church fathers of the past that esteemed thinkers like Plato, Plotinus and Aristotle and use of their writings to argue for the faith have thought about their fate post death.

I haven’t seen any specifics on that. It may be that it’s too speculative, or it may be that I just haven’t seen those particular quotes.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Wouldn't a logical outcome of this line of thought be it that it's better to never have children and instead live like the Shakers or some of the Gnostic influenced sects from the Middle Age did?

I could see the comparison to Gnosticism, yeah. If you're naturally endowed with salvation, and it's only yours to lose, then it is better to snuff your life out while you still have it, the sooner the better.

It doesn't work because it is a total inversion of what the Gospel is: God saving you despite your sin and guilt.

 

[Blade Runner]

The difficulty with the family question is that it can lead to your salvation or to idol worship (longevity, lineage, kids). Similarly, not having a family can also be a cause of suffering, but I can see how that can also be used for a man's salvation. I can see it with a woman, but not as much, since the point of the married woman is to submit, and if they don't submit it's also more dangerous for them not being married - since it's so easy by nature for them to be married if they just desire it at a youthful age.

Having said all that, slightly off topic is a question regarding funerals and what people say in general as far as eulogizing the person who has just died. I find it not only strange but funny (since it's sad) that so many people say that "He's in a better place". Is he? How would they know? Didn't he fight with all his might to not go to the other place? This applies to at least half the people I come across, if not more.

Acting like we're very aware at all of the condition of a person (unless he's a saint) at death is one of the weirdest things. We should just remember the best that we can of that person, and hope. We humans have this social and emotional frailty that seems sort of sad to me. Since so few see the world the way we do around here, we're hugely outnumbered too, so it serves little purpose to try to remind people of the more important things, which are not the temporal things of this decaying, passing age.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

So what proportion of people go to hell?

We are not told. The general consensus has been that there will be more in hell than heaven.

However, there are convincing arguments that go the other way. For example, Romans 5 says that the free gift [of Christ] is not like the trespass [of Adam], and that where sin abounded, grace abounded all the more.

It is very possible that by the eschaton, those in Christ will outnumber those in Adam.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

I don't hear a lot of hellfire preaching these days and that isn't surprising. Hell is one of the most unpopular doctrines of the Christian faith. Some have tried to explain away hell. I find them to be out of their gourd, as it is a divinely revealed truth of the faith once for all delivered to the saints.

We wrestle with hell because we recognize, due to being created in the image of God, that we have marred the image of God in us with our sin, and that we all deserve the wrath of God as a result. But thanks be to God who has given us His Son to deliver us from destruction.

The lie of the devil: do as thou wilt, looks more enticing in comparison but it is an empty promise, one that leads straight into the fires of hell.

 

[Blade Runner]

I don't hear a lot of hellfire preaching these days and that isn't surprising.

Yes, there isn't much of it because there isn't much fear of God and as we know, most serve up what "sells" well.