Did Pope Francis Allow Priests to Bless Same-Sex Relationships?

Ok to those arguing it’s not a big deal, easy question…does what the pope did help or hinder the full on acceptance of homosexuality in the Catholic Church?

I mean do you not see how we went from ‘It’s none of my business what people do in the privacy of their home’ to transgender story hour at your local high school?

Wasn’t overnight was it?

15 years from now:

Pope declares homosexuality no longer a sin.
 
But, what about the sinner? Or is the substance of a person his sins?
After getting several perspectives and calming down, I realize the actual document affirms that same-sex relationships are sinful, but the wording of "couple" is dangerously ambiguous, and seems synonymous with union.

The MSM seems to think this means a blessing of a sinful union, which is unfortunate.

The Papacy should be a source of clarity, and failed in the regard. The Pope is human and this document doesn't fulfil the conditions for infallibility. The modernists scored a win here, but God will prevail. We get the leaders we deserve. Pray the rosary please.
 
I keep wondering as I read this thread if there's a distinction between blessing repentant sinners and blessing unrepentant sinners. No idea if that's the case or not but to me it seems like that's an underlying issue... we are all sinners, but the repentant mindset is typically a prerequisite for participation in the divine powers of the Church. In the case of that priest doing the photo op blessing the gay couple holding hands, they seem pretty clearly unrepentant. But this may not apply to priestly blessings, I don't know what the actual policy for Orthodox let alone for Romans.
 
I've never shared what I think about it, one way or another.
Staying silent and not sharing what you think about in regarding to the concerning SF document issues while the LGBQT+ groups continue to infect The Vatican is not going to help.

But, what about the sinner? Or is the substance of a person his sins?
Should a same-sex married couple (or individual) who continue to engage in homosexual lifestyle without repenting for their sins be allowed to receive some kind of a blessing from a priest?

Edit. Or put it another way: Should a former homosexual male/female who repented for his/her LGBQT+ lifestyle sins be allowed to receive a blessing from a priest?

I keep wondering as I read this thread if there's a distinction between blessing repentant sinners and blessing unrepentant sinners. No idea if that's the case or not but to me it seems like that's an underlying issue... we are all sinners, but the repentant mindset is typically a prerequisite for participation in the divine powers of the Church. In the case of that priest doing the photo op blessing the gay couple holding hands, they seem pretty clearly unrepentant. But this may not apply to priestly blessings, I don't know what the actual policy for Orthodox let alone for Romans.
It was a photo op, without a doubt. Media propaganda is very coordinated and organized because it started with Fr. James Martin and spread from there. Expect to see more confusion and misleading information about the SF document in the media as well as same-sex couples and/or individuals receiving some type of blessing for photo-op - i.e., "lesbian married priests" in England.
 
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After getting several perspectives and calming down, I realize the actual document affirms that same-sex relationships are sinful, but the wording of "couple" is dangerously ambiguous, and seems synonymous with union.

The MSM seems to think this means a blessing of a sinful union, which is unfortunate.

The Papacy should be a source of clarity, and failed in the regard. The Pope is human and this document doesn't fulfil the conditions for infallibility. The modernists scored a win here, but God will prevail. We get the leaders we deserve. Pray the rosary please.

Where does this principle come from, that "we get the leaders we deserve" as it relates to the pope? It seems like it is simply asserted as the foundation for the semi-trad explanation as to what is wrong in the Church. But God does not give us what we deserve. He gives us what is conducive to salvation and what is according to His promises. A 'Pope' that leads souls to hell by his official magisterium is incompatible with His promises for the Papacy.
 
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Where does this principle come from, that "we get the leaders we deserve" as it relates to the pope? It seems like it is simply asserted as the foundation for the semi-trad explanation as to what is wrong in the Church. But God does not give us what we deserve. He gives us what is conducive to salvation and what is according to His promises. A 'Pope' that leads souls to hell by his official magisterium is incompatible with His promises for the Papacy.
Haven't there been corrupt or worldly popes in the past, like in the middle ages? Not all popes have been paragons of Godliness. I'm sure it's upsetting and disappointing if it happens, but surely it is within the realm of possibility.
 
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Bad popes, oh yes, sure. Heretics? Never. Impossible.
If a pope teaches a heresy such as Monothelitism, would he be a heretic?

The bad popes of the middle ages had a magisterium that was faultless — unlike Jorge Bergoglio.
The middle ages once had three popes at the same time, all anathematizing each other.
 
Between family parties last night Christmas Eve and Christmas Day this topic has been the main topic of conversation. Most of my extended family are Catholic. Quite the arguments all around. The timing of this release is interesting. I'm sure they would have known this would happen.

That being said, at least the arguments aren't about jabbies or sportsball.
 
If a pope teaches a heresy such as Monothelitism, would he be a heretic?

This question actually came up at the First Vatican Council, which defined the dogma of papal infallibility in 1870. The case of Pope Honorius in particular was debated up and down before and during the Council. Here are the findings: https://novusordowatch.org/2017/07/case-of-pope-honorius/
IMG_2783.webp

The Fathers of Vatican I concluded, after extensive research, investigation, and debate, that no Pope had ever been a heretic — not Honorius, not Liberius, not Stephen VII, not Nicholas I, not John XII, not John XXII, nor any other name that is typically brought up in association with the accusation of "papal heresy". But beyond the Pope Honorius issue, the Church's doctrines on the Papacy and Church are binding - and they make it impossible for Francis to be a true Pope.

The middle ages once had three popes at the same time, all anathematizing each other.

Don't assume the Pope question is merely a case of mistaken identity, like in the Great Western Schism. It's not. While it is true that there was confusion and doubt about who was the true pope in the Great Western Schism, there is objectively no confusion or doubt about the Vatican II popes (including "Francis"). In the Great Western Schism, all claimants were Catholics; the problem was one of election, not one of faith. There was no question of their orthodoxy. Any of the two false claimants *could* have been Pope, and those who believed them to be valid, certainly did not 'resist' them and their magisterium.
 
Here is Fr. Josiah Trenhams take ..and it's not very flattering.



Bottom line, affirming a homosexual relationship, ensures people walk further from chastity and repentance.

He likens it to:

No priest with would bless a man or his mistress. Or people living together in fornication (something I had to work through during the catechism period... by getting civilly married before the before baptism and then sacramental ceremony.)


I notice none of the Catholics in this thread have actually bothered to reply to a real authority, instead Catholics are busy debating laymen who still have much to learn. Conversely Fr. Trenham is a highly educated and respected Presbyter who represents his Bishop faithfully, he wouldn't be saying this on video if his Bishop did not approve of everything.

This means the Antiochian Church (2nd oldest Church in the world) is fully against this latest innovation by the heretical Popes, who have been heretics and law breakers since the original schism.

Personally I wish Catholics would have more concern and love for their Church. Because if I was Catholic I'd be up in arms about this, since I love my Church. I think Catholics who excuse evil do a great disservice to their Church, I don't see how or why it is loving not to call out evil when you see it.

At the same time, I do not necessarily subscribe to the idea that one should abandon his or her Church when it struggles, the struggle is part of salvation, Orthodox Churches have all had their own crosses to bear at times. From our perspective it is baffling when the Catholics do the "defend a lousy Pope at all costs" thing, the Orthodox have at times defrocked a bad Patriarch in the past.

We are no strangers to controversy within the clergy but at the end of the day the Bishops hold power. If a supermajority of Bishops decide against someone, even a Patriarch, that person can be stripped of power or even defrocked. This is true even within the Catholic Church, as it is clear from St. Ignatius and others that the Bishops are the highest vested authority. The point of Popes (Latin for Patriarch) is to help run the organization by having one esteemed man handle disputes or punish lawbreakers, especially between Bishops, but the idea they are beyond reproach or infallible is of course ridiculous.

I would just point out that the Apostle Peter himself was not infallible, for example see how Apostle Paul and others rejected his position that Christians needed to be circumcised. Anyone claiming to be at the seat of Peter (highly questionable for Rome to claim this seat, given that Peter was the Pope of Jerusalem) is automatically fallible, just as St. Peter was.

The only infallible figure is Jesus Christ, and his guiding hand is always present at Holy Councils making them infallible. No where else is there any reasonable claim to infallibility.
 
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I notice none of the Catholics in this thread have actually bothered to reply to a real authority, instead Catholics are busy debating laymen who still have much to learn. Conversely Fr. Trenham is a highly educated and respected Presbyter who represents his Bishop faithfully, he wouldn't be saying this on video if his Bishop did not approve of everything.

This means the Antiochian Church (2nd oldest Church in the world) is fully against this latest innovation by the heretical Popes, who have been heretics and law breakers since the original schism.

Personally I wish Catholics would have more concern and love for their Church. Because if I was Catholic I'd be up in arms about this, since I love my Church. I think Catholics who excuse evil do a great disservice to their Church, I don't see how or why it is loving not to call out evil when you see it.

At the same time, I do not necessarily subscribe to the idea that one should abandon his or her Church when it struggles, the struggle is part of salvation, Orthodox Churches have all had their own crosses to bear at times. From our perspective it is baffling when the Catholics do the "defend a lousy Pope at all costs" thing, the Orthodox have at times defrocked a bad Patriarch in the past.

We are no strangers to controversy within the clergy but at the end of the day the Bishops hold power. If a supermajority of Bishops decide against someone, even a Patriarch, that person can be stripped of power or even defrocked. This is true even within the Catholic Church, as it is clear from St. Ignatius and others that the Bishops are the highest vested authority. The point of Popes (Latin for Patriarch) is to help run the organization by having one esteemed man handle disputes or punish lawbreakers, especially between Bishops, but the idea they are beyond reproach or infallible is of course ridiculous.

I would just point out that the Apostle Peter himself was not infallible, for example see how Apostle Paul and others rejected his position that Christians needed to be circumcised, so anyone claiming to be at the seat of Peter (highly questionable for Rome to claim this seat, given that Peter was the Pope of Jerusalem) is automatically fallible, just as St. Peter was.

The only infallible figure is Jesus Christ, and his guiding hand is always present at Holy Councils making them infallible. No where else is there any reasonable claim to infallibility.

I would add... Even in the Antiochian Jurisdiction here in the US, we recently had a Metropolitan resign over allegations of impropriety with a woman parishioner (promoted by a very liberal "news/faith" out let that has been sued for libel and lost (so we don't know if there's truth to these allegations at all))... In which Fr. Trenham, and my priest's response was to say something to the effect of, "Woe to those who bring scandal to the Church... And Woe to those who spread that scandal!"... I don't think that's purely and Orthodox position.

I ask my best friend, a devout Catholic, why he won't just come over to the Orthodox Church... And like your sentiment, he is very keen on staying s Catholic and fighting through the issues within his Church so I respect and appreciate that.
 
I ask my best friend, a devout Catholic, why he won't just come over to the Orthodox Church... And like your sentiment, he is very keen on staying s Catholic and fighting through the issues within his Church so I respect and appreciate that.
Catholics don't have backup churches.

Roman Catholicism is the true religion. "Orthodox" churches are schismatic and heretical.
 
Catholics don't have backup churches.

Roman Catholicism is the true religion. "Orthodox" churches are schismatic and heretical.
Well... We will have to disagree here... I could just as easily say the same thing that Post 1054 the Catholics solidified their self proclaiming of heresy from the rest of the Apostolic Churches.

I'm not going to say the Catholics are heretics. They're an apostolic church.... just in err on several key issues. And I'm saying that they should come in communion with the Orthodox...but this will not happen as there's be too many things the Catholics accept that they'd now have to reject for both Churches to join together.
 
Catholics don't have backup churches.
What's stopping the Catholics for no backup churches?

Roman Catholicism is the true religion. "Orthodox" churches are schismatic and heretical.
Since you brought it up...
Heretical and Schismatic Members

But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.
Rejects a divisive man after the first and second admonition,
knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

Titus 3:9-11
 
I would add... Even in the Antiochian Jurisdiction here in the US, we recently had a Metropolitan resign over allegations of impropriety with a woman parishioner (promoted by a very liberal "news/faith" out let that has been sued for libel and lost (so we don't know if there's truth to these allegations at all))...

I know who you are talking about but I won’t name him here out of respect. I met him in person. As to the allegations, I lean towards them being true. If you do some digging you can find real estate records where him and woman accusing him owned property together. Not a smoking gun, but suspicious. I say he did the right thing by resigning. He felt it was the best thing to do for the church.

The takeaway should be we are all fallible and capable of falling into sin no matter what our position in the church is. Always to realize this, be vigilant, and examine ourselves.


In which Fr. Trenham, and my priest's response was to say something to the effect of, "Woe to those who bring scandal to the Church... And Woe to those who spread that scandal!"... I don't think that's purely and Orthodox position.

I ask my best friend, a devout Catholic, why he won't just come over to the Orthodox Church... And like your sentiment, he is very keen on staying s Catholic and fighting through the issues within his Church so I respect and appreciate that.

It’s not easy with family pressure and tradition. Further if you don’t have an ethnic connection it becomes even more difficult as you are seen as an outsider. It happened to me, I didn’t feel at home. I respect the Orthodox greatly though and my priest was a very welcoming and kind man. I just wish the rest of the parish was like him!
 
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