Did Pope Francis Allow Priests to Bless Same-Sex Relationships?

BasilSeal said:
I think we should all agree that the the title of this post is misleading. There is no blessing for such relationships.

Hot take: Couples in such a relationship may greatly benefit from being blessed by a priest.
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This handy little chart explains in easy-to-see format the difference between blessing same-sex COUPLES and blessing their UNIONS. See your local 'popesplainer' for details!
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BasilSeal said:
Should a priest ever be permitted to knowingly and specifically bless an unrepentant sinner?
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Should a priest bless someone who is unwilling to repent of their sin?

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is a sexually immoral person, or greedy, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Are you not to judge those who are within the church? 13But those who are outside, God will judge. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.
 
BasilSeal said:
Suppose the answer is yes. Which sins please, and under what conditions?
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It's a tricky question. What does a blessing mean? I believe in the priesthood of believers. I think I, or any Christian, can pray for absolutely anyone, that God would bless them, not only by bringing them to salvation, but in earthly terms of health, security, freedom from depression, dread, horror, terror, fear, hopelessness, despair, etc. Like what you would pray for a lost adult child of yours.

On the other hand, a blessing can also convey some kind of approval. If your daughter comes to you and asks for your blessing on her marrying Dennis Rodman, can you really give it? Should you? I'd say no. A father cannot in good conscience give his blessing to an extremely bad marriage choice by his daughter.

You are presenting priestly blessings as the former, but you know the whole world, including many Catholics, are taking it as the latter. It is not at all being viewed as a prayer for sinners, by the gays or priests in question. It is being viewed by both, and by anti-gay Christians of all kinds, as approval.
 
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I wouldn't say that the whole world is taking it the second way. And really, why should people of faith accept worldly definitions of sacramental words? As a person of faith, should you form an answer to a question based on what the world may do?
 
BasilSeal said:
@Genealogist who leads the Catholic church? Do I need to ask the question in meme format?
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You keep asking this. Clearly the most recent person elected by the cardinals to the office of Pope is seen by many as being un-Pope-like. It's not the first time it's happened in history. The Catholic church currently has a pope problem.

Some say the office of Pope is currently technically vacant, which would be their answer to your question. Many would say the current office holder is in error. Therefore, that one who is in error is still the Pope. Others would say if he holds the office, he must for the most part be God's true servant, so any doubts about him are wrong by definition.

I would say the current holder of the office is in error, like other Popes in the past. This appears to be what a number of other Catholics are deciding, such as the Polish priests.
 
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I wouldn't say that the whole world is taking it the second way. And really, why should people of faith accept worldly definitions of sacramental words? As a person of faith, should you form an answer to a question based on what the world may do?
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Words have meaning. Asking someone for their blessing, such as your bride's father, clearly carries a meaning of approval.
 
How did Catholics not see this coming with the huge amount of gay priests? If you got rid of the gay priests there would be churches empty because there aren’t priests to say mass. That’s a near exact quote from a Church Militant video from a Bishop.



Funny enough the guy speaking in this video is also gay.
 
When you blend worldly and spiritual definitions together, or use whichever definition you like to justify your point of view, that is when words lose their meaning.

In this context, we are certainly not talking about approval. But the world is more than happy to.
 
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TruthTeller said:
How did Catholics not see this coming with the huge amount of gay priests? If you got rid of the gay priests there would be churches empty because there aren’t priests to say mass. That’s a near exact quote from a Church Militant video from a Bishop.



Funny enough the guy speaking in this video is also gay.
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I would say this is a natural consequence of not allowing married men to be priests. Homosexuals do not have to give anything up to become a Catholic priest, because they already can't have sexual relations in any case. But a straight man must give up intimacy and the family which he otherwise could have had outside the priesthood. Few straight men are willing to do this. You will see in Orthodox and Protestant churches there is no such problem, because they're not asking the priests to make an additional sacrifice. A sacrifice which is really only suited for monastics.
 
analyst_green said:
I would say this is a natural consequence of not allowing married men to be priests. Homosexuals do not have to give anything up to become a Catholic priest, because they already can't have sexual relations in any case. But a straight man must give up intimacy and the family which he otherwise could have had outside the priesthood. Few straight men are willing to do this. You will see in Orthodox and Protestant churches there is no such problem, because they're not asking the priests to make an additional sacrifice. A sacrifice which is really only suited for monastics.
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Correct. It’s also supply and demand. You tend to get more undesirables as priests because of the celibacy clause or just sociopaths like this guy:

Note (explicit wording)


How do guys like this slip through the cracks? I’ve rarely heard of these types of scandals in the Orthodox or Protestant churches.
 
BasilSeal said:
Let me know when you're all ready to get back on the actual thread topic.
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BasilSeal said:
You keep saying you're not trying to derail the thread. Not try harder.
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You keep dancing around the Fiducia Supplicans issues and refused to acknowledge the connection between Pope Francis and Father James Martin of Catholic Outreach group. Can't you admit that's why The Vatican came out with the Fiducia Supplicans based on last October synod meeting?

U.S. priest who runs outreach for LGBTQ+ Catholics tapped by pope to join major Vatican gathering​

Published July 7, 2023 9:25 a.m. EDT

ROME - An American Jesuit who runs outreach ministry for LGBTQ Catholics has been tapped by Pope Francis on Friday to be among participants at a major Vatican gathering of bishops and laypeople later this year.

The Vatican unveiled the names of bishops, priests, nuns and laypersons who will take part in the weeks-long meeting that the pope has called for in October. Among those chosen is the Rev. James Martin, who has long been a prominent advocate of greater inclusion of the LGBTQ community in the Catholic church.

Official Catholic teaching considers any sexual act outside of marriage between a man and a woman sinful.

Ahead of the gathering, known as a synod, there was an unprecedented canvassing of Catholics worldwide, which found that the faithful want to see concrete steps to promote women to decision-making posts as well as a "radical inclusion" of the LGBTQ+ community in the Church.

After the pope, in an interview with The Associated Press in January, decried as "unjust" laws that criminalize homosexuality and declared that "being homosexual is not a crime," Martin, who is a Jesuit like Francis, asked him for clarification, given the church's teaching on the subject. Francis then clarified that he should have said that any sexual act outside marriage is a sin.

Throughout his 10-year-old papacy, Francis has upheld Catholic teaching on sexuality but has made outreach to LGBTQ+ people a priority.

Earlier this year, Pope Francis decided to give women the right to vote at the gathering, which runs from Oct. 4 till Oct. 29. That reform reflected his wider hopes to give women greater decision-making responsibilities and make it possible for laypeople to have more say in the life of the Catholic Church.

Among those expressing gratitude to the pope for his attention to women's roles was Sheila Leocadia Pires, a journalist with experience in Catholic media who was appointed as secretary of the commission for information at the synod.

"Certainly as an African woman from Mozambique living and serving the Church in South Africa, I do think that Pope Francis is giving a good sign to all women in the global south, especially in Africa," she said in a written statement Friday.

The synod process continues in 2024 with a second phase. After its conclusion, Francis is expected to issue a document considering the proposals that have been put to him by the delegates.
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"...faithful want to see concrete steps to promote women to decision-making posts as well as a "radical inclusion" of the LGBTQ+ community in the Church."

Well, there you go. That underlined part sounds interesting. Let's keep digging, shall we?

Pope to LGBT Catholics: 'God is Father who does not disown any of his children'​

Pope Francis answers three questions put to him by Jesuit Father James Martin whose pastoral ministry involves the LGBT community.

09 May 2022, 17:28

“God’s style is closeness, mercy and tenderness” Pope Francis said answering three questions put to him by Jesuit Father James Martin who ministers to LGBT Catholics.

On 5 May Father Martin had written to the Pope in Spanish asking him to answer some questions that he is most commonly asked by LGBT Catholics and their families.

He received a hand-written response a couple of days afterward, that was published in the form of a short interview on Father Martin’s website “Outreach”.

“With respect to your questions,” the Pope wrote, “a very simple response occurs to me.”

Outreach: What would you say is the most important thing for LGBT people to know about God?

Pope Francis: God is Father and he does not disown any of his children. And “the style” of God is “closeness, mercy and tenderness.” Along this path you will find God.

Outreach: What would you like LGBT people to know about the Church?

Pope Francis: I would like for them to read the book of the Acts of the Apostles. There they will find the image of the living Church.

Outreach: What do you say to an LGBT Catholic who has experienced rejection from the Church?

Pope Francis: I would have them recognize it not as “the rejection of the church,” but instead of “people in the church.” The church is a mother and calls together all her children. Take for example the parable of those invited to the feast: “the just, the sinners, the rich and the poor, etc.” [Matthew 22:1-15; Luke 14:15-24]. A “selective” church, one of “pure blood,” is not Holy Mother Church, but rather a sect.

Pope's words in July 2021
Last year in July Pope Francis had sent Father Martin a letter on the occasion of the webinar “Outreach 2021” in which he said that “God is close to and loves each and every one of his children. His heart is open to all. He is the Father.”

"Thinking about your pastoral work," the Pope wrote, "I see that you continually try to imitate this style of God. You are a priest for everyone, as God is Father of everyone. I pray for you that you may continue in this way, being close, compassionate and full tenderness."

"I pray for your faithful, your 'parishioners,'" the Pope had concluded, "for all those whom the Lord has placed beside you so that you may care for them, protect them and make them grow in the love of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Father Martin's questions to Pope Francis were pathetic. He should have asked the Pope the following questions:
  • Is same-sex relationship/marriage and homosexual behavior consider a sin or acceptable in the Catholic Church? If acceptable, should same-sex couple be blessed?
  • Is homosexuality beside fornication, adultery, abortion and abusive sexual behavior consider immoral and inappropriate forms of behavior in and of themselves in the Catholic Church?
  • Does the Catholic Church believe that homosexuality attack the institution of marriage and the family?
  • Does the Catholic Church approve same-sex parents raising children without traditional values?
  • Should the Catholic Church perform or recognize same-sex marriages?
  • Should the Catholic Church ordain openly LGBQT+ people?
Whenever I read or see Father Martin in the media, all I can think of is Matthew 7:15-20. Also, I was thinking of a St. John Chrysostom quote:

"Did you commit sin?
Enter the Church and repent for your sin;
for here is the physician, not the judge;
here one is not investigated, one receives remission of sins"
-St. John Chrysostom
 
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