Caduceus
Heritage
No one in this thread has claimed this except 1 of the 2 trolls.
-
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Cosmology Debate Thread ("Space Is Fake")
- Thread starter Andy Dufresne
- Start date
No one in this thread has claimed this except 1 of the 2 trolls.
Caduceus
Heritage
I was on RVF since 2017 and had just under 3000 posts there when it closed last month.
Ok... So what is the actual argument being made/what is in question?
And where does your intolerance end? Because in another thread you posted that you want to see 'moon landing denial', 'dinosaur denial' (LOL, on a Christian board no less) and a list of other Verboten topics banned.
Notice the phrasing, bytheway. One step away from 'Holocaust denial', 'man made climate change denial' and 'vaccine denial'
As has been said before, nobody forces you to read or participate in any of this.
The only point of criticism I have is that the sceptics have failed to provide evidence or logical reasoning (bar one or two). It's mostly 'Yup, space is fake. Haha what ya gonna do about it?' type of points
A serious write up with key points or criticisms would be nice
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Caduceus
Heritage
That most you see in the sky and heavens with the naked eye (or through a telescope) is totally different from they say it is.
There is obviously something there, but it is not what we are told.
Also, that human travel outside of low earth orbit is not actually possible, and footage which allegedly shows this is either faked or altered in some way to make it seem it is possible.
Finally that the evidence from the powers that be present for "outer space" is severely lacking, and is unconvincing.
Unfortunately 99% of humanity cannot got there to verify the evidence.
Notice I never said in any of my posts that I believe it's all fake....just that there are lots of questions that need to be discussed in a calm rational way.
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There is still no way to hide threads, however. This was asked about on the "nukes are fake" thread as well.
Over 600 people from 46 different countries have been in space. Any one of us could've become an astronaut with the right talents and motivation. We have plenty of eyewitness testimony and photo/video evidence of space that has no signs of tampering.
What more evidence could convince the skeptics? Even if all the astronauts are in in the scam, you would have to either collaborate with or fool all the people involved in the space agencies training the astronauts, preparing the shuttles, planning the flight path, and so on. That's thousands of people we're talking about. It's virtually impossible to keep a secret with that many people involved.
What more evidence could convince the skeptics? Even if all the astronauts are in in the scam, you would have to either collaborate with or fool all the people involved in the space agencies training the astronauts, preparing the shuttles, planning the flight path, and so on. That's thousands of people we're talking about. It's virtually impossible to keep a secret with that many people involved.
El Dorado
Other Christian
^THIS^ As the old saying goes: "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead."
It seems these sort of topics tend to draw in a good amount of new members that seem to only participate in threads of this nature . I'm guessing the theory is that there's people that basically want to fire off a missile and then step back and watch the carnage that ensures is correct. Whether it's just trolling or something more insidious, I'm not sure.
Just my 2 cents, but I like the low moderation and letting threads like this fly. It's a high IQ community and people on both sides of any issue here always bring up good points. They are also quick to band together to deal with trolls. Also, threads that have no benefit or interest will eventually die of their own accord.
In addition, often the intention behind someone starting a thread (no matter how irrelevant or ludicrous I think it may be at the onset) does not have the effect on me that the OP intended. A poster may be trying to get me to be serious, but instead they make me laugh (RIP Little Dark). Or two posters may be arguing back and forth in a thread about one thing, and this makes makes me think about a parallel, but different second thing.
Anyhow, even though I believe that space is real I like this thread. I think the troll added some weird, twisted value. Although I don't like the troll, I laughed out loud at his writing. It was funny and he rudely made some good points. I was just surprised that anyone took the bait.
In addition, often the intention behind someone starting a thread (no matter how irrelevant or ludicrous I think it may be at the onset) does not have the effect on me that the OP intended. A poster may be trying to get me to be serious, but instead they make me laugh (RIP Little Dark). Or two posters may be arguing back and forth in a thread about one thing, and this makes makes me think about a parallel, but different second thing.
Anyhow, even though I believe that space is real I like this thread. I think the troll added some weird, twisted value. Although I don't like the troll, I laughed out loud at his writing. It was funny and he rudely made some good points. I was just surprised that anyone took the bait.
OP right now with zero posts after creating the thread and watching it from afar
And gents, I have to apologise, for my vision became reality (see #2)
I fear that I inadvertently created this monster through my underestimated powers of predictive programming
Sorry guys!
And gents, I have to apologise, for my vision became reality (see #2)
Add this to the list of topics that never end well
1. A WW2 leader called Mr. H and why he was the ultimate hero
2. Space is fake and if you don't agree you are a blue pill sheep that believes everything NASA says
3. Roosh and how he hurt me online
I fear that I inadvertently created this monster through my underestimated powers of predictive programming
Sorry guys!
StanWildman
Orthodox Inquirer
Be prepared to be surprised. VERY surprised:
The Israelis Who Push the Ultimate Conspiracy Theory
The Israelis Who Push the Ultimate Conspiracy Theory
StanWildman
Orthodox Inquirer
Here is some background that I found genuinely informative, and I thought I had the flat-earth-globe-sized-slide-thread phenomenon figured out. Ryan Reeves is very good at what he does.
Jeremiah Branch
Orthodox Catechumen
Reeves' history of Christianity series on Youtube is great.
There is a consistent theme on here, and in other conspiratorial discussion circles, that certain theories are really jew-contrived theories used to "poison the well" of natural skepticism against a lying system. I can buy this idea, but this cognitive infiltrative work done by counter-intel agents mainly spreads to investigations that directly interfere with the moneyed power structure of the Rothschild banking system, the countries it controls, and those countries militaries. JFK and 9/11 are topics that get more "well poisoning" than something like this. Whether or not space is fake (or gay) satellites are fake (and really gay) or the nature of the earth is truly discovered, does not position the key to removing the shackles from the devils spawn one inch closer unless it behooves people to rise up in the here and now in a simple rebellion away from sin towards God.
Let us examine the consequences of arriving at the truth about the shape of the earth, round, flat, oblong, honeycombed, hologram, or any other model:
-If the earth truly is a spinning ball moving in an orbital pattern as defined in heliocentrism, a spinning ball that water magically clings to by the as of yet unexplained force of gravity and the unknown magnetic nature of the earth's core, which we are told is molten, and there are 4 primary oceans with 7 primary land continents, a consistent equatorial night and day cycle, inconsistent arctic and antarctic night and day cycle, hemispherical seasonal changes, and a textbook-explained definition of the "atmosphere" then this would beget both a deep dive into the scientific measurements for some, and a lack of it for others who believe that everything in their universe has already been defined and out of their normal-mindedness would not seek to question the established secularist dogma.
-If the earth however, is not a spinning ball covered in water, with the vast measurements in error that exist in many of the topographies, then it merely means the model that is superimposed onto the collective consensus is a lie, whether by force or by short-sighted pridemongers who revel in their claim of knowing their world, removing the mysteries of creation and of God's power, then it begets simply a change in following the previous dogma. If "flat earth" or another model is finally superseded from the ball model and all of its pseudo-scientific offshoots, which is full of satanic kabbalistic numerology, then it would generally only mean less people follow the system on a spiritual sense. The "strange beliefs" that Roosh said the flat earthers have is usually related to new age spiritualism, not forensic Biblical and geographical study.
Here's something people seem afraid to touch on here. If anyone here other than Brother Augustine has knowledge of occult circles, or knows of the material they read and teach to their initiates, occult physics, occult chemistry, occult astronomy, which I doubt anyone here does, then they would know that these people, who are intrinsically what we would call evil, do not believe in any of the goy-nonsense that their freemasonic counterparts peddle to the masses through education and indoctrination centers called modern "schools." I profess the sacred blood of Christ, the messiah and savior, in prayer, reverence, and confession, as my redemption, and I trust in Him, so I'm not afraid to look at the enemy's tactics. Orwell, a known insider, explains his reasoning here, similar to how many initiated occult do:
Here is an example of what I am talking about, neither round nor flat:
"Freemason draws hollow earth with masonic compass"
Not that this blasphemer is correct on everything, but remember their game, to acquire knowledge, feed the uninitiated lies, and usurp control of all narratives.
Winding the clocks back a bit. Until the last few hundred years, the world unanimously believed the planet looked something like this:
All of these various mythologies and ancient religions / cultures shared virtually the same collective human story. A universal story with universal elements told from many different perspectives and in many different "babbled" tongues.
Only the pre-Christian Hebrew that became true Israel (not jewish) concept of the universe is the accurate and correct interpretation and that includes not only the cosmology but also the history, although the many various mythologies of earth may all agree that the world was shaped generally the same, and that there were "wisdom serpents" or what we would call Fallen Angels, who descended upon mankind and taught us sin, or in their case, "knowledge". We all agree that there was a man who survived a great flood with his three sons in an ark.
The similarities are unending, because these are various languages and twists in nephilim perspectives of human history. Yet nowhere do we find more detail and accuracy than the Christian Bible, whose ancient conception of the universe absolutely holds up to modern scientific method scrutiny, although scientism will never tell you this. As some posters here have chided the flat earthers for their "pancake model," the Biblical explanations clearly do not indicate a heliocentric (pagan-derived) model.
Here is the only real space we should be concerned with:
Nehemiah 9:6:
"You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you."
Deuteronomy 26:15:
"Look down from Your holy dwelling, from heaven, and bless Your people Israel and the land You have given us as You swore to our fathers, a land flowing with milk and honey."
and my favorite:
Psalms 104:2-3:
"The Lord wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent and lays the beams of his upper chambers on their waters. He makes the clouds his chariot and rides on the wings of the wind."
We could get into an analysis of scriptural passages, but then the thread itself would devolve into further bickering. I propose to make threads like these for members who have only attained a certain post count, 100 minimum and several months on the forum, before "contributing" to. Very few replies on this thread have contributed anything factual.
The wonder of God's creation cannot be contained in a manmade mathematical model under the guise of scientism. When I see Christian men simply spouting acceptance of the pagan heliocentric model because of a principled argument they view as being against something that Obama-jew Cass Sunstein wrote that allegedly applies to all fringe subjects, and not because they have explored it fully, filtered through all the hyper-sensationalism for both models, it begets me to question their inquisition on faith. Why not look into it's origins, and explore more deeply? To at least acknowledge that the model we are told is a lie, or the obvious that aspects of it reflect demonic phenomena?
Back to the thread's title, "space" is not fake, it is a part of creation, it is the realm of God as depicted above, and nothing like the jewish sci-fi conception of "outer space" as seen in everything their sorcery production companies in Hollywood and NASA have created, even in the other countries that allegedly believe in the same fantasy, never show the true nature of space. "Space" to the model, is a vast empty expanse, full of un-Godly things, and quasi-spiritual ponderings at best. It is the direct opposite of what God is.
So here are some questions to others who claim to be followers of Christ who do not take the Bible literally, why does the Bible not describe life in outer space? The idea of aliens should be as alien to Christians as the idea of accepting demons. The way they teach space in education systems attempts to make God look small, to replace God with this nebulous secular concept of the universe.
Having been up past 60,000ft myself in a previous part of my life, I can confirm it is cold up there, and windy, but that's about it, and I didn't have a fishbowl lens in my cockpit. The theories we're told about the temperature gradient was never always accurate, and from personal experience I could definitely see how Don Pettit's "Tyranny of the Rocket Equation" notion holds more water than any theory of escape velocity that those launderers at NASA peddle.
I will relate one more scriptural passage, not about the description of the earth or the heavens, but about the description of the men who place their belief elsewhere.
Ezekiel 8:16 tells the story:
"And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD’s house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east."
As far as I'm concerned, believing in any aspect of heliocentrism is worshipping the sun. From Babylon to Pergamos to pagan Rome all the way to the present fallen democracies of Europe and the freemasonic jewnited States of America.
Let us examine the consequences of arriving at the truth about the shape of the earth, round, flat, oblong, honeycombed, hologram, or any other model:
-If the earth truly is a spinning ball moving in an orbital pattern as defined in heliocentrism, a spinning ball that water magically clings to by the as of yet unexplained force of gravity and the unknown magnetic nature of the earth's core, which we are told is molten, and there are 4 primary oceans with 7 primary land continents, a consistent equatorial night and day cycle, inconsistent arctic and antarctic night and day cycle, hemispherical seasonal changes, and a textbook-explained definition of the "atmosphere" then this would beget both a deep dive into the scientific measurements for some, and a lack of it for others who believe that everything in their universe has already been defined and out of their normal-mindedness would not seek to question the established secularist dogma.
-If the earth however, is not a spinning ball covered in water, with the vast measurements in error that exist in many of the topographies, then it merely means the model that is superimposed onto the collective consensus is a lie, whether by force or by short-sighted pridemongers who revel in their claim of knowing their world, removing the mysteries of creation and of God's power, then it begets simply a change in following the previous dogma. If "flat earth" or another model is finally superseded from the ball model and all of its pseudo-scientific offshoots, which is full of satanic kabbalistic numerology, then it would generally only mean less people follow the system on a spiritual sense. The "strange beliefs" that Roosh said the flat earthers have is usually related to new age spiritualism, not forensic Biblical and geographical study.
Here's something people seem afraid to touch on here. If anyone here other than Brother Augustine has knowledge of occult circles, or knows of the material they read and teach to their initiates, occult physics, occult chemistry, occult astronomy, which I doubt anyone here does, then they would know that these people, who are intrinsically what we would call evil, do not believe in any of the goy-nonsense that their freemasonic counterparts peddle to the masses through education and indoctrination centers called modern "schools." I profess the sacred blood of Christ, the messiah and savior, in prayer, reverence, and confession, as my redemption, and I trust in Him, so I'm not afraid to look at the enemy's tactics. Orwell, a known insider, explains his reasoning here, similar to how many initiated occult do:
Here is an example of what I am talking about, neither round nor flat:
"Freemason draws hollow earth with masonic compass"
Not that this blasphemer is correct on everything, but remember their game, to acquire knowledge, feed the uninitiated lies, and usurp control of all narratives.
Winding the clocks back a bit. Until the last few hundred years, the world unanimously believed the planet looked something like this:
All of these various mythologies and ancient religions / cultures shared virtually the same collective human story. A universal story with universal elements told from many different perspectives and in many different "babbled" tongues.
Only the pre-Christian Hebrew that became true Israel (not jewish) concept of the universe is the accurate and correct interpretation and that includes not only the cosmology but also the history, although the many various mythologies of earth may all agree that the world was shaped generally the same, and that there were "wisdom serpents" or what we would call Fallen Angels, who descended upon mankind and taught us sin, or in their case, "knowledge". We all agree that there was a man who survived a great flood with his three sons in an ark.
The similarities are unending, because these are various languages and twists in nephilim perspectives of human history. Yet nowhere do we find more detail and accuracy than the Christian Bible, whose ancient conception of the universe absolutely holds up to modern scientific method scrutiny, although scientism will never tell you this. As some posters here have chided the flat earthers for their "pancake model," the Biblical explanations clearly do not indicate a heliocentric (pagan-derived) model.
Here is the only real space we should be concerned with:
Nehemiah 9:6:
"You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you."
Deuteronomy 26:15:
"Look down from Your holy dwelling, from heaven, and bless Your people Israel and the land You have given us as You swore to our fathers, a land flowing with milk and honey."
and my favorite:
Psalms 104:2-3:
"The Lord wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent and lays the beams of his upper chambers on their waters. He makes the clouds his chariot and rides on the wings of the wind."
We could get into an analysis of scriptural passages, but then the thread itself would devolve into further bickering. I propose to make threads like these for members who have only attained a certain post count, 100 minimum and several months on the forum, before "contributing" to. Very few replies on this thread have contributed anything factual.
The wonder of God's creation cannot be contained in a manmade mathematical model under the guise of scientism. When I see Christian men simply spouting acceptance of the pagan heliocentric model because of a principled argument they view as being against something that Obama-jew Cass Sunstein wrote that allegedly applies to all fringe subjects, and not because they have explored it fully, filtered through all the hyper-sensationalism for both models, it begets me to question their inquisition on faith. Why not look into it's origins, and explore more deeply? To at least acknowledge that the model we are told is a lie, or the obvious that aspects of it reflect demonic phenomena?
Back to the thread's title, "space" is not fake, it is a part of creation, it is the realm of God as depicted above, and nothing like the jewish sci-fi conception of "outer space" as seen in everything their sorcery production companies in Hollywood and NASA have created, even in the other countries that allegedly believe in the same fantasy, never show the true nature of space. "Space" to the model, is a vast empty expanse, full of un-Godly things, and quasi-spiritual ponderings at best. It is the direct opposite of what God is.
So here are some questions to others who claim to be followers of Christ who do not take the Bible literally, why does the Bible not describe life in outer space? The idea of aliens should be as alien to Christians as the idea of accepting demons. The way they teach space in education systems attempts to make God look small, to replace God with this nebulous secular concept of the universe.
Having been up past 60,000ft myself in a previous part of my life, I can confirm it is cold up there, and windy, but that's about it, and I didn't have a fishbowl lens in my cockpit. The theories we're told about the temperature gradient was never always accurate, and from personal experience I could definitely see how Don Pettit's "Tyranny of the Rocket Equation" notion holds more water than any theory of escape velocity that those launderers at NASA peddle.
I will relate one more scriptural passage, not about the description of the earth or the heavens, but about the description of the men who place their belief elsewhere.
Ezekiel 8:16 tells the story:
"And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD’s house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east."
As far as I'm concerned, believing in any aspect of heliocentrism is worshipping the sun. From Babylon to Pergamos to pagan Rome all the way to the present fallen democracies of Europe and the freemasonic jewnited States of America.
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Here's some perspective, at least for me anyway.
Laying in bed this morning I was thinking about or, more precisely, reminding myself of the true nature of the times we are living in. Right now we are 3 years into the biggest mass murder event in documented history, yet during the course of the day I will mostly be thinking about relatively trivial and frivolous matters, rather than the mass sterilisation of our young men and women, the destruction of immune systems, the suffering, the spiralling mortality rates. It upsets me that I can't seem to fully comprehend the full meaning of the mass extinction that is playing out, but that's testament to how deeply evil and Satanic this worldwide operation is. It's like my instinctual alarm has been switched off and I have to force myself to remember the details of this horror that doesn't want to fully register in my consciousness.
I read recently this phenomenon described as Satan's lullaby. How perfect that description by a Muslim convert to Christianity living in the US. That has to have come from the Holy Spirit. That couple went back to the Middle East and to assured persecution rather than risk their souls and their salvation by living comfortably in their American idyll.
My friend recently went out and got double jabbed, mRNA & flu. I said nothing. I'd already tried to get through to them months before. X 30 or so and counting. I haven't as yet found the armour piecing rhetoric to switch people on to the dangers. I can only pray that they see reason.
We flatter ourselves on this forum on being red-pilled, but I do wonder if this constant, questioning of things (all too often frivolous and unprofitable things such as this thread) is actually detrimental to our spiritual lives. Perhaps that's the conclusion Roosh came to in the end. It's good to question, necessary even, but how many minutes, hours even, do people want to devote to whether space is fake when the things that are so terribly real are escaping our full attention.
Laying in bed this morning I was thinking about or, more precisely, reminding myself of the true nature of the times we are living in. Right now we are 3 years into the biggest mass murder event in documented history, yet during the course of the day I will mostly be thinking about relatively trivial and frivolous matters, rather than the mass sterilisation of our young men and women, the destruction of immune systems, the suffering, the spiralling mortality rates. It upsets me that I can't seem to fully comprehend the full meaning of the mass extinction that is playing out, but that's testament to how deeply evil and Satanic this worldwide operation is. It's like my instinctual alarm has been switched off and I have to force myself to remember the details of this horror that doesn't want to fully register in my consciousness.
I read recently this phenomenon described as Satan's lullaby. How perfect that description by a Muslim convert to Christianity living in the US. That has to have come from the Holy Spirit. That couple went back to the Middle East and to assured persecution rather than risk their souls and their salvation by living comfortably in their American idyll.
My friend recently went out and got double jabbed, mRNA & flu. I said nothing. I'd already tried to get through to them months before. X 30 or so and counting. I haven't as yet found the armour piecing rhetoric to switch people on to the dangers. I can only pray that they see reason.
We flatter ourselves on this forum on being red-pilled, but I do wonder if this constant, questioning of things (all too often frivolous and unprofitable things such as this thread) is actually detrimental to our spiritual lives. Perhaps that's the conclusion Roosh came to in the end. It's good to question, necessary even, but how many minutes, hours even, do people want to devote to whether space is fake when the things that are so terribly real are escaping our full attention.
Please don't bash me - I know I am an ignoramus on this topic.
However, my intuition tells me that the question of understanding SPACE is fundamental.
SPACE does not exist as a thing. The word "space" is akin to the word "shaddow" - both space and shaddows cannot exist without something else.
Shaddows are the lack of light, space is a lack of matter. Nobody runs around pondering the nature of shaddows, because we knnow it's not a thing in of itself. However, "SPACE" has been elevated by clown-physicists to something that can bend, expand and whatnot.
The clown-trick used here is to conflate clown-space (e.g. space can bend and has properties) with space-lack-of-matter by using sophisticated mathematics. However, once you understand that math is DESCRIPTIVE, but not EXPLANATORY, the clown-trick falls appart. You can discard all math and demand a real explanation. An explanation of how things work must be given without math.
There is this Nikola Tesla quote relevant to this topic ―
“I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can have no properties. It might as well be said that God has properties. He has not, but only attributes and these are of our own making. Of properties we can only speak when dealing with matter filling the space. To say that in the presence of large bodies space becomes curved is equivalent to stating that something can act upon nothing. I, for one, refuse to subscribe to such a view.”
TLDR:
> the bending and expanding clown-space is fake, because space cannot have properties
> space exists in the sense of lack of matter, but is not a thing in itself
However, my intuition tells me that the question of understanding SPACE is fundamental.
SPACE does not exist as a thing. The word "space" is akin to the word "shaddow" - both space and shaddows cannot exist without something else.
Shaddows are the lack of light, space is a lack of matter. Nobody runs around pondering the nature of shaddows, because we knnow it's not a thing in of itself. However, "SPACE" has been elevated by clown-physicists to something that can bend, expand and whatnot.
The clown-trick used here is to conflate clown-space (e.g. space can bend and has properties) with space-lack-of-matter by using sophisticated mathematics. However, once you understand that math is DESCRIPTIVE, but not EXPLANATORY, the clown-trick falls appart. You can discard all math and demand a real explanation. An explanation of how things work must be given without math.
There is this Nikola Tesla quote relevant to this topic ―
“I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can have no properties. It might as well be said that God has properties. He has not, but only attributes and these are of our own making. Of properties we can only speak when dealing with matter filling the space. To say that in the presence of large bodies space becomes curved is equivalent to stating that something can act upon nothing. I, for one, refuse to subscribe to such a view.”
TLDR:
> the bending and expanding clown-space is fake, because space cannot have properties
> space exists in the sense of lack of matter, but is not a thing in itself
Mods; I suggest that we create a separate Conspiracy section under Culture, so these kinds of threads can only be posted there. That way it won't take over the forum and also not create as much animosity. I don't mind that people discuss this at all, only that it makes the forum look like Alex Jones basement if it spreads everywhere. But you have to be firm in shutting down any threads that fit the description elsewhere then! What do you think?
A bunch of word salad here. Speak clearly: what exactly is to be gained by concealing from the mass of the population that the world is flat? And assuming the world was flat, how would that actually change anything for how we live our lives day to day? How would it change the manner in which the forces of evil continually strive to exert their influence and obtain ever-more power?
I don't see how it would change anything. In other words, there is simply no point to maintaining a conspiracy that the world is flat. Contrast this with conspiracies around something like 9/11, in which there is a very obvious motive at play to maintain secrecy about the truth. So not only is there no evidence that the world is flat, there is utterly no reason that some shadowy cabal would have been suppressing this information for literally centuries, up through the modern era, and in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary.
Human beings require motives to act. And there is no rational motive that explains a multi-generational conspiracy to conceal a flat earth.