Cosmology Debate Thread ("Space Is Fake")

Reminder: Flat Earth conspiracy is a psy-op intended to distract people with naturally inquisitive, freethinking and anti-authoritarian mindsets in order to prevent them from focusing their attention on actual conspiracies and government cover-ups, and to destroy their credibility and create division within dissident communities.

The fact that an obviously passionate and intelligent guy like MusicForThePiano has written the beginnings of an entire book on the subject in this thread is the perfect example of the evil genius behind this psy-op. I shudder to think how much time and energy has been squandered on the Flat Earth topic by him and others. It's depressing to consider. Even as someone who is adamantly in favor of open debate and discussion and who abhors censorship of ideas, I'm beginning to understand why Roosh banned this topic on the RVF.
 
Reminder: Flat Earth conspiracy is a psy-op intended to distract people with naturally inquisitive, freethinking and anti-authoritarian mindsets in order to prevent them from focusing their attention on actual conspiracies and government cover-ups, and to destroy their credibility and create division within dissident communities.

The fact that an obviously passionate and intelligent guy like MusicForThePiano has written the beginnings of an entire book on the subject in this thread is the perfect example of the evil genius behind this psy-op. I shudder to think how much time and energy has been squandered on the Flat Earth topic by him and others. It's depressing to consider. Even as someone who is adamantly in favor of open debate and discussion and who abhors censorship of ideas, I'm beginning to understand why Roosh banned this topic on the RVF.
Cooper kept posting this ad nauseum and I had to explain to him why this is not the case with cosmology. However, this is the case with very particular conspiracies like 9/11 and US Foreign Policy in the Middle East, as well as the astroturfing of "white supremacy" in the mainland USA by intelligence agencies. This statement is indeed in the Cass Sunstein report, however from what proof we have seen with active and moonlighting federal involvement in dissenting beliefs, it is clear that they do not care about flat earth because most of the people who are pushing it already have horrible optics and don't attract a large enough audience.

Even if a critical mass of people were to disbelieve in the globe and space, the most it would ever change in the near future is that people would protest their tax dollars going to NASA and the governments would have to get wiser and make another scam agency to vulture off their citizens. More people with edgier personalities would attempt their own rocket launches and surveying. We do not have the technology to actively prove a mathematical model one way or the other, so the best thing the institutions do is to roll with one model that they can siphon as much money from people off of while pretending to pursue something humanitarian and LARP as frontiersman. There is no interest in the US federal government, or any other Five Eyes agencies, or Western European intelligentsia to waste their time on cosmology when they have arrest quotas to fill and terrorists to create. It is the primary interest of occult types (I know everyone is tired of hearing this but that doesn't change it not being true) to create and maintain a dichotomy of information they are privy to but everyone else is not. Unfortunately, cosmological models are in many of these dichotomic purgatories of esoteric versus exoteric.

The main target for division in dissident communities would be antigovernment militias, people advocating for increasing birth rates (especially among Whites) and those who seek to undermine or rival Washington's press-media mouthpieces by placing truthful news above what their opponent's financiers ordered.

I do see similar grifters latching onto the flat-earth consensus selling people who are not aware of human nature false ideas. There are people with websites hawking fake flat earth maps and selling them on apps to unsuspecting people. There are vermin in every conspiracy who are in it just for themselves. I am completely against this.

The tarnishing of low IQ people who don't believe in the globe model is tantamount to banishing them and ridiculing them and not trying to reach them or simply dismissing them.

I do appreciate your appropriate and impartial moderator behavior though, it is refreshing. Roosh was pressured into banning it because of certain people who would act vehemently in the discussion. 911 would swoop in like Captain Save-a-Ho for a globular mistress to immediately stomp out any discussion of this subject the second someone brought it up, and many people were banned for simply bringing it up. To this day we may never know if he the Globe ever repaid him for his efforts. I hope we can continue to discuss cosmological phenomena without resorting to models in the simple expressions and curiosities of true philosophers.

The purest example I can use here is that if someone posts something and it is something unknown, new, or uncertain, they are not positing that because of this unknown that our world is flat, but the other side HAS to come in and say that whatever this unknown is is fake, junk, garbage, and that we must adhere to the heliocentric model and all the knowns within it and stop searching for answers elsewhere. The intended discourse of certain people here is to keep enforcing the flawed heliocentric model as a carrot and stick, either you eat the carrot or you get the stick (ban), and not discuss any of the bountiful subjects of the cosmos that do not adhere to it's rigidity.

I am looking into this subject with many hours and intensity from a spiritual and Scriptural perspective, not a geometric perspective, and that is why I do not think it is a waste. There are many things we do not know about our cosmology and we never will during this lifetime, and to assume we do because of a flawed model is vainglorious. Always remember the Scripture.

"Let nothing be done through contention, neither by vain glory: but in humility, let each esteem others better than themselves: Each one not considering the things that are his own, but those that are other men's." - Philippians 2:3-4
 
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-There is no complete picture of Antarctica from the concept of outer space.
-There is still no actual pictures of the earth in its complete and alleged globular shape from the concept of outer space.
-There is no visual proof of earth curvature, only conceptual mathematics.
-There is no proof of gravity beyond theoretical equations.
-There is no proof for the proposed size of the sun and the moon, their alleged distances from earth, and whether they are physical bodies or something beyond our understanding of celestial mechanics and chemical/geological composition.

There is proof for density and buoyancy which can completely explain all phenomena that gravity attempts to do.
There is visual proof for a farther horizon than the globular mathematics dictate possible.
There is proof that the celestial poles are generating magnetic fields and rotating their surrounding stars around the earth.
There is visual and measurable proof that the sun and the moon are not what we are told, specifically with their paths, size, and distance.
There is no "ice wall" like a frozen rim but rather a vast expanse that does not have a known boundary.

We already went over the linguistics of the firmament, and you said you were going to talk with your Bishop about it. The word in ancient Hebrew did not translate to expanse but a barrier. For the sake of making shorter posts I will just reference anyone to re-read earlier parts of this thread if they want a lesson in languages.

It is not beyond absurd, it is a legitimate debate. If you cannot see how human-contrived control systems are affecting our reasoning, then I don't know how to explain it to you otherwise. Only a willing soul can truly break free of all of these layers of deceit.



Errors according to what, Newtonian Mechanics? I am waiting for someone to break down my wrongs and not just reference some alternative model that says otherwise without proving anything.

-Compasses do not point into the ground, they must be held flat and level to receive a proper magnetic bearing. So any video you post that posits a compass "pointing into the ground" is incorrect. Again these people think they understand magnetism but they do not. The behavior of compasses are be governed by the local magnetic field. Near the celestial poles, the magnetic field lines may become more vertical, causing the compass needle to dip downward. This would occur regardless of whether the Earth is flat or spherical. The downward dip of the compass needle near the celestial poles is a result of the orientation of the local magnetic field lines, not the shape of the Earth itself. So essentially one a cannot use a compass to prove the shape of the Earth and it is not a valid argument for either.

-The idea of circumnavigation from north to south means a complete revolution around a globular earth that bypasses both poles and returns to the point of origin along that north-south route. It has not been done. All sea-bound circumnavigation efforts were around major continents and had a consistent path of hugging the land so they could stop port to port to restock.

What you think is a false premise is due to your understanding of only one framework.

The idea that something is better understood if it is simpler is something I have been arguing for, and it goes against all the layers of advanced mathematical models that Newtonian physics and its offshoots gives to us. I invite you again to read Ebenezer Breach's 20 reasons against Newtonianism, specifically point ten which you are agreeing with completely here, something you "dismissed" the other day because you believed an earlier premise to be false:

"10. Because the primitive idea of simplicity is a just one, founded in nature and adopted in reason, the real objective true science should be to make the laws of nature simple, sublime, and self-evident to the people. The Creator would not direct to a bright consideration of His works, knowing that they were inconsiderable and unapproachable, except by the very learned, who have mystified them by their outrageous mathematical calculations, General Draison rightly accuses scientific professors of arrogant and ignorant exclusiveness."

So essentially the same logic can be said for your premises, because some of them are false, therefore the rest of them are false. I don't say this. I am open to investigating any and everything one would ask of this subject because no truth fears to be scrutinized.

Why do you want to dismiss everything without investigating it and only rely on the sources that claim they've done something without offering any actual proofs or explanations? I've already debunked one flat-earth model here myself, one that real snake oil salesman are peddling to people curious about the truth, but that doesn't mean that the concept is ridiculous because there are all these people claiming they have traipsed across Antarctica when our own instruments and methods are capable of great errors, and there are a slew of other unknowns about Antarctica.

The stars tell many things that the earth does not. The inclusion of the celestial magnetic fields, which extends to the sun and the moon (though they are almost an entirely separate subject from the stars because of the specific roles God made them for) could very well situate Antarctica surrounded by water, but that doesn't mean that there is nothing beyond it, whether that be a barrier or a wall or a vast expanse that man has not passed. There is no honest independent non-governmental non-controlled experiments and proofs done on Antarctica. Yes they are lying, and I think this is where we diverge. I do not see proofs from any of these institutions, they only beget more questions with their endeavors.

So was this expedition fake then?

 
If you want to definitely disprove flat earth, just examine the coriolis effect.

Its used in calculating artillery and something I've done first hand with tabular firing tables, map plotting, and other instruments which account for azmith and other components.

It is factored in the 5 requirements of accurate predictive fire in the computation if firing data.

If it weren't true or necessary... It would be omitted.
 
Simple question, not so simple answer. I could just say "no," but then that would beget an explanation, so I'll just include a brief one.

Sir Ranulph Fiennes certainly is an explorer and an achiever, and there is no doubt that he has been across all areas of the Earth in his passions for explorations. However, the Transglobe Expedition primarily relied on surface travel, including overland trekking and sailing. While they did cross the Arctic and Antarctic regions, the precise route and whether it followed a continuous path around the alleged globe's circumference can be easily scrutinized. When this occurred, there were several notable and knowledgeable people who questions the authenticity of Fiennes claims.

-he famed mountaineer and polar explorer Sir Edmund Hillary expressed skepticism about the Transglobe Expedition's claim to a complete circumnavigation. He questioned the definition of circumnavigation used by the expedition and suggested that it did not meet the criteria for a true north-south pole-to-pole journey. Also Geoffrey Kent, a seasoned explorer and founder of the adventure travel company Abercrombie & Kent, raised doubts about the validity of the Transglobe Expedition's claim. He argued that the expedition's route did not satisfy the standard definition of circumnavigation, as it did not pass through both poles and cross all meridians of longitude.

The Transglobe Expedition's route seemed to avoid the treacherous polar ice caps, particularly in Antarctica. Rather than crossing directly over the continent or traversing its ice fields, the expedition skirted around the edges of Antarctica, raising doubts about the thoroughness of its polar exploration.

Fiennes claims were not independently verified by neutral third parties or international authorities. The expedition's documentation and evidence were primarily self-reported, leaving room for skepticism about the accuracy and completeness of its achievements. Quite a feat for one to report about themselves with all of this uncertain data out there.
 
If you want to definitely disprove flat earth, just examine the coriolis effect.

Its used in calculating artillery and something I've done first hand with tabular firing tables, map plotting, and other instruments which account for azmith and other components.

It is factored in the 5 requirements of accurate predictive fire in the computation if firing data.

If it weren't true or necessary... It would be omitted.
This has been mythologized as a heliocentric proof. So much of this mythology is like the 1950's Milgram experiments for proof of submission.

Sharpshooters factor in humidity, wind speed, elevation, the weight of the bullet, sight aperture, barometric pressure, but not what direction he is facing or whether or not it contradicts "the spin of the earth." The spin of the earth is allegedly 1000mph at the Equator, and basically 0 at the pole. You have to consider your latitude and need a computerized calculator to factor in these variables if one was using the coriolis effect to figure out the correction. There is no factoring in the spin of the earth, or the curve of the earth at all.

Field artillery factors in longitude and latitude as a target, not with spin. My cousin was infantry, he spent a lot of time around the howitzers and the M1s and had been around multiple different weapons, none whatsoever factors in a non-existing curve or rotation. Ask any nuclear engineer on a submarine (if you can find any) for the truth about sonar and periscopes, the curve is non-existence. Many professional snipers have stated unequivocally that they never have to factor or compensate for this supposed coriolis effect. There's a video of a navy seal scout sniper himself confirming that the coriolis effect is bs.

Here is what he said:

"The theory is with that the earth spinning on its axis on a direction of east to west, you would have to compensate for the spin of the earth for shooting in a westerly or easterly direction, when the bullet would reach the target, the target would either have risen or have dropped due to the spin of the earth. Shooting north or south would have no difference, it wouldn't have an effect. On a mission, if that were true, I would have to compensate at varying degrees whether shooting between north and east, east and south, south and west, or west and north. Never once did I compensate for the coriolis effect, and we driving nails at least hitting a man-sized target in the kill-zone at 1800 yards consistently every time. Along with other lies told about our universe and our nature about it, the coriolis effect is total bs. Certainly a bullet drops when at distance dramatically because the velocity is decreasing. But as far as the spin of the earth goes, no effect."

Another from Snipershide.com said:

"I've shot at 2000 meters, and whoever says coriolis effect is a factor, is full of it. Wind, wind, and more crosswinds will play games with your bullet more than anything else."

And from sniperforums.com another said:

"I shoot from distances up to 3000yards, yet I have never experiened the need to compute for coriolis effect. I've killed deer up to 1000 yards and never had something go awry that could be attributed to coriolis."

What are the 5 variables you claim to have used for these calculations?
 
This has been mythologized as a heliocentric proof. So much of this mythology is like the 1950's Milgram experiments for proof of submission.

Sharpshooters factor in humidity, wind speed, elevation, the weight of the bullet, sight aperture, barometric pressure, but not what direction he is facing or whether or not it contradicts "the spin of the earth." The spin of the earth is allegedly 1000mph at the Equator, and basically 0 at the pole. You have to consider your latitude and need a computerized calculator to factor in these variables if one was using the coriolis effect to figure out the correction. There is no factoring in the spin of the earth, or the curve of the earth at all.

Field artillery factors in longitude and latitude as a target, not with spin. My cousin was infantry, he spent a lot of time around the howitzers and the M1s and had been around multiple different weapons, none whatsoever factors in a non-existing curve or rotation. Ask any nuclear engineer on a submarine (if you can find any) for the truth about sonar and periscopes, the curve is non-existence. Many professional snipers have stated unequivocally that they never have to factor or compensate for this supposed coriolis effect. There's a video of a navy seal scout sniper himself confirming that the coriolis effect is bs.

Here is what he said:

"The theory is with that the earth spinning on its axis on a direction of east to west, you would have to compensate for the spin of the earth for shooting in a westerly or easterly direction, when the bullet would reach the target, the target would either have risen or have dropped due to the spin of the earth. Shooting north or south would have no difference, it wouldn't have an effect. On a mission, if that were true, I would have to compensate at varying degrees whether shooting between north and east, east and south, south and west, or west and north. Never once did I compensate for the coriolis effect, and we driving nails at least hitting a man-sized target in the kill-zone at 1800 yards consistently every time. Along with other lies told about our universe and our nature about it, the coriolis effect is total bs. Certainly a bullet drops when at distance dramatically because the velocity is decreasing. But as far as the spin of the earth goes, no effect."

Another from Snipershide.com said:

"I've shot at 2000 meters, and whoever says coriolis effect is a factor, is full of it. Wind, wind, and more crosswinds will play games with your bullet more than anything else."

And from sniperforums.com another said:

"I shoot from distances up to 3000yards, yet I have never experiened the need to compute for coriolis effect. I've killed deer up to 1000 yards and never had something go awry that could be attributed to coriolis."

What are the 5 variables you claim to have used for these calculations?
N of 1 from sniper forum does not evidence make. My uncle was a sniper for a large police department and has the total opposite point... Even so, what one may get away with at 1000 yards, is not the same thing as shooting at 20 kilometers. With respect to your cousin, he is ignorant of what he's talking about, Even Mortarmen (I've been a mortar platoon commander also) use a ballistic computer that factors this in to the data when they conduct fire-missions.

Rather than talk of anecdotal expereinces of small arms practitioners. Let me educate you/and all on this matter.

I was an instructor at the Field Artillery School, with the Marine Detachment there. I am an expert on this.

There are 5 requirements for Accurate Predictive Fire. These are all found in the FM 6.40 which is the doctrinal publication



They are:
Accurate Target Location and Size
Accurate Firing Unit Location
Accurate Ammunition/Propellant Information
Accurate Meteorological Conditions
Accurate Computational Procedures.


Chapter 3 BALLISTICS has all your info on this outlined.

1711161122044.png

Rotation of the Earth) is one of the factors computed for. In the Tabular Firing Tables, there is a distance - Drift offset factor, as well as deflection offset for earth rotation to apply to the deflection you apply to the howitzer when sending information to the Gunline. It also varies based off position of the Gun to Position of the Target or the "Gun Target Line" and depending on the Azimuth from the Gun Target Line to the Target, there are different offsets....which is based off the curvature/rotation of the earth.

We would not be factoring this into our long rage artillery calculations if it was not a valid requirement for first round Fire For Effect Accuracy.

Period.


Additionally, I've been an instructor Precision Strike Suite Instructor and Target Mensuration Only Instructor. This is a targeting system using classified data that factors in Geographic Informational Systems data and maps them to the earth... to pull map data for targeting that is very very very precise.... With out describing much more than that, I can assure you that curvature of the earth is absolutely used in this process as satellites have to project different grid lines and data across scales to generate these grids. Cartographers have to do special overlay techniques intorder to get high degree of fidelity data. There is different map data (WGS 84 (World Geodetic System) vs other map systems)

You dont have to take the military word for it. Go speak with any GIS (Geographic Information Systems) analysts that work in Energy sector. They have to apply map datum to products. My brother does this for a large energy company. He too, is under the impression that Flat Earth = full on retard.


The idea that the earth is flat from anyone who's spent any significant time conducting target mensuration/targeting and understands the process of how geographic data is applied to these systems is ignorant at best and frankly full on retarded.
 
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Additionally, I've been an instructor Precision Strike Suite Instructor and Target Mensuration Only Instructor. This is a targeting system using classified data that factors in Geographic Informational Systems data and maps them to the earth... to pull map data for targeting that is very very very precise.... With out describing much more than that, I can assure you that curvature of the earth is absolutely used in this process as satellites have to project different grid lines and data across scales to generate these grids. Cartographers have to do special overlay techniques intorder to get high degree of fidelity data. There is different map data (WGS 84 (World Geodetic System) vs other map systems)

Post about how satellites aren't real and how there's no objects in space coming in 3...2..1......
 
Post about how satellites aren't real and how there's no objects in space coming in 3...2..1......
I'm sure someone will tell me that my experiences were fake, and not real and that I was lied to.... or some weird conflation of that.... but...At a certain point.... all one can do is laugh and smile.

Or even better, they'll tell me "Hey Yo! Quit being a Mark for the Round Globe"
 
Not just that, anyone who's had basic pilot training would never even doubt the 'globe model'.

I'm checking out of this thread but I do appreciate @MusicForThePiano 's behaviour and information on this forum in general.

Music for the piano, Guitar and Bird are great posters, this is what makes this thread so disappointing.

Every time I scan through one of MFTP's megaposts above, I see the image of Cass Sunstein rubbing hands. The people who put this psyop together are brilliant, got to hand it to them.
 
Music for the piano, Guitar and Bird are great posters, this is what makes this thread so disappointing.

Every time I scan through one of MFTP's megaposts above, I see the image of Cass Sunstein rubbing hands. The people who put this psyop together are brilliant, got to hand it to them.

:ROFLMAO:

You are much kinder than I. If someone espouses flat earth nonsense and keeps on trying to defend it despite all the massive evidence to the contrary, nothing they write can be taken seriously. It clearly shows they have no reasoning capacity, or more likely they are trolls wasting everybody’s time.

The most precious commodity is time, so I ask again to never respond to any post that directly or indirectly mentions flat earth. The topic will be gone in a few months, but they might come up with another whopper, wasting people’s time again. Or they will ‘come around’ and admit they were wrong, only to continue to troll. Time will tell.

Seems like everybody is doing this with the best intentions trying to educate them, but in my opinion you are simply being played and pulled into stupid arguments by trolls. So, if the mods are going to allow the topic, just ignore them and their posts. These trolls are like females who are crying for attention with this flat earth nonsense, so deprive them of any attention.
 
I agree with Samseau, that if an idea or proposition cannot be explained succinctly, it is junk. Long meandering posts, peppered with lengthy videos and dodgy infographics, are a massive red flag.

They can't simply explain why in the flat earth model with the sun moving on a circular track above it (as it was some kind of a giant light fixture stuck on a circular rail fixed on an imaginary ceiling) you can't see the sun at night, though you can still see it in those edges of the crescent of daylight!


i-ran-into-this-explanation-of-the-24h-sun-in-antarctica-v0-g872vs7etp2c1.jpg



In their model, the Arctic region should be one of the hottest areas on earth because it is constantly under the sun rays at high angles. The north pole in that model would get more that 10x as much sun, at a much higher angle, as South Africa or Argentina.

The flat earth crew were also reluctant to post flat earth map because the basic distances don't work at all on that map: non-stop flights between Chile and Australia are actually shorter (14hrs on Qantas from Santiago to Sydney) than non-stop flights between San Francisco, CA and Australia (15 hours flight from SF to Sydney on United). On flat earth map, we can clearly see that the distance from Chile to Oz (Yellow line) is a whole lot longer than that from SF to Oz (blue line):
Flat_earth.webp

Those are very basic aspects of the flat earth model, ignoring kooky assumptions like the water on that plate being held by an ice wall acting like a perpetual giant dam stretching thousands of miles across the entire perimeter of disk earth, even though Antarctica has several coastlines without ice, why all the other planets, moons and sun are globes, why the basic distances don't work on flat earth map and so forth.
 
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Some of you are still missing the point of this discourse. The point of looking into cosmology is not to promote the guaranteed concept of an earth model, but to look at our universe and think on the things that we do not know. When we are presented with an alleged complete and working model, finding things within that model that are not accurate is a perfectly normal endeavor. There are plenty of mathematical inaccuracies and visual impossibilities with the globe model, and there are plenty of conceptual constructions that are flat-out incorrect with the immediate alternative of the flat-earth proposed by detractors. The ancient world was certainly less ignorant than we are today, and that is why most of my studies focus on what I can find from then.

Why does it bother some of you what an adult does with their spare time in their own interests, hobbies, and pursuits? And for those of you who say that this subject is a psy-op I am still waiting for any proof that government agencies are actively involved in the promotion of it. I have disproved this several times already in this thread, so unless you can bring in proof that the main proponents of alternate cosmology are either paid informants with a criminal record, intelligence assets, or active agents on the GS pay scale, then you are posting lies when saying this.

Also every single post here ripping on the flat earth model, yes, all of your posts, are ripping on the one that I already dismissed and debunked. None of you are looking into the antediluvian concept that was shared across all ancient civilizations, which is not the half-dome discus. It is based on the star-tunnel and the spherical celestial rotating over a level plane Earth surface with an undistinguished underworld and no definitive boundary (hence no ice wall). That may sound even crazier than the flat-earth model that everyone here keeps talking about while I have already dumped that in the rubbish bin, but this is where true astronomical and cosmological studiers should place their efforts if they wish to begin an undertaking of the laws of nature and decipher through what we have been told versus what adds up in all measures of reality.

I at least have the humility to admit that I do not put my faith in all bad models, including the Copernican beach ball and the Gleason pancake, and I examined all of them and the concepts that begot them before I begin to believe in something. The only thing in my life that I never needed an explanation to believe in was God, whom I was both loving and fearing from a young age. Some other topics I knew were lies based on that spiritual antenna which I believe is just more attuned in some people than others.

People will always question their surroundings, it is in our nature. You can't forcibly take this from them, you can't call them kooks and retards enough to make them drop this, and you can't shame them onto a shanghaied belief system to suit your own comfort in the subject. We can talk about flight times and cardinalities and equations ad nauseum, but none of these are actual proofs. Just think about this. Each one of these two models can disprove the other based on the frameworks that those models are derived in. Even flat earthers do not see this dialectic trap.

I would invite all of you to look into deeper cosmology and not just A: what you have been told your entire life and B: what the skeptics immediately supplant for that belief.
 
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Some of you are still missing the point of this discourse.
I can assure we are not missing the point at all. We have said, endlessly, that we know it is a psyop. No amount of lengthy junk posts will ever change that, not that anyone reads them.

The perpetrators of the Cass Sunstein Flat Earth psyop know that 'winning' the argument is never necessary for success, just the discourse. Too bad you have fallen for it so badly.

This is why Flat Earth posts should be banned outright, and immediately deleted. This thread, if not deleted, should be locked and allowed to disappear down the page listings. The 'Space is Fake' topic was obviously intended to be a stepping stone to Flat Earth.
 
Some of you are still missing the point of this discourse. The point of looking into cosmology is not to promote the guaranteed concept of an earth model, but to look at our universe and think on the things that we do not know. When we are presented with an alleged complete and working model, finding things within that model that are not accurate is a perfectly normal endeavor. There are plenty of mathematical inaccuracies and visual impossibilities with the globe model, and there are plenty of conceptual constructions that are flat-out incorrect with the immediate alternative of the flat-earth proposed by detractors. The ancient world was certainly less ignorant than we are today, and that is why most of my studies focus on what I can find from then.

Why does it bother some of you what an adult does with their spare time in their own interests, hobbies, and pursuits? And for those of you who say that this subject is a psy-op I am still waiting for any proof that government agencies are actively involved in the promotion of it. I have disproved this several times already in this thread, so unless you can bring in proof that the main proponents of alternate cosmology are either paid informants with a criminal record, intelligence assets, or active agents on the GS pay scale, then you are posting lies when saying this.

Also every single post here ripping on the flat earth model, yes, all of your posts, are ripping on the one that I already dismissed and debunked. None of you are looking into the antediluvian concept that was shared across all ancient civilizations, which is not the half-dome discus. It is based on the star-tunnel and the spherical celestial rotating over a level plane Earth surface with an undistinguished underworld and no definitive boundary (hence no ice wall). That may sound even crazier than the flat-earth model that everyone here keeps talking about while I have already dumped that in the rubbish bin, but this is where true astronomical and cosmological studiers should place their efforts if they wish to begin an undertaking of the laws of nature and decipher through what we have been told versus what adds up in all measures of reality.

I at least have the humility to admit that I do not put my faith in all bad models, including the Copernican beach ball and the Gleason pancake, and I examined all of them and the concepts that begot them before I begin to believe in something. The only thing in my life that I never needed an explanation to believe in was God, whom I was both loving and fearing from a young age. Some other topics I knew were lies based on that spiritual antenna which I believe is just more attuned in some people than others.

People will always question their surroundings, it is in our nature. You can't forcibly take this from them, you can't call them kooks and retards enough to make them drop this, and you can't shame them onto a shanghaied belief system to suit your own comfort in the subject. We can talk about flight times and cardinalities and equations ad nauseum, but none of these are actual proofs. Just think about this. Each one of these two models can disprove the other based on the frameworks that those models are derived in. Even flat earthers do not see this dialectic trap.

I would invite all of you to look into deeper cosmology and not just A: what you have been told your entire life and B: what the skeptics immediately supplant for that belief.
Music, I agree with you doubts of the current cosmic model. I don't think we ever were in space, we can not grasp light and I do't buy the sun is 400 times larger than the sun (and the same size for us)

-There is no complete picture of Antarctica from the concept of outer space. (and not even with balloons / check google maps)
-There is still no actual pictures of the earth in its complete and alleged globular shape from the concept of outer space. (no proof indeed)
-There is no proof for the proposed size of the sun and the moon, their alleged distances from earth, and whether they are physical bodies or something beyond our understanding of celestial mechanics and chemical/geological composition. (100% agree)
- There is visual proof for a farther horizon than the globular mathematics dictate possible. (anyhow this is true, and we have no good model to explain this)

I don't know what it is, but the mathematics are not sound.

Though I think you should drop the level plane. As we can literally proof this as @Cooper shared and myself. Explain us how distance works. (the flight time) and the day and night cycle. The globe earth model is the best predictor of that.

Just answer these 2 questions as I feel you have been skipping them.
 
Not just the distances, but the areas on the flat earth map are completely out of whack: Australia looks bigger than Russia, South America much bigger than North America etc.
 
Some of you are still missing the point of this discourse. The point of looking into cosmology is not to promote the guaranteed concept of an earth model, but to look at our universe and think on the things that we do not know. When we are presented with an alleged complete and working model, finding things within that model that are not accurate is a perfectly normal endeavor. There are plenty of mathematical inaccuracies and visual impossibilities with the globe model, and there are plenty of conceptual constructions that are flat-out incorrect with the immediate alternative of the flat-earth proposed by detractors. The ancient world was certainly less ignorant than we are today, and that is why most of my studies focus on what I can find from then.

Why does it bother some of you what an adult does with their spare time in their own interests, hobbies, and pursuits? And for those of you who say that this subject is a psy-op I am still waiting for any proof that government agencies are actively involved in the promotion of it. I have disproved this several times already in this thread, so unless you can bring in proof that the main proponents of alternate cosmology are either paid informants with a criminal record, intelligence assets, or active agents on the GS pay scale, then you are posting lies when saying this.

Also every single post here ripping on the flat earth model, yes, all of your posts, are ripping on the one that I already dismissed and debunked. None of you are looking into the antediluvian concept that was shared across all ancient civilizations, which is not the half-dome discus. It is based on the star-tunnel and the spherical celestial rotating over a level plane Earth surface with an undistinguished underworld and no definitive boundary (hence no ice wall). That may sound even crazier than the flat-earth model that everyone here keeps talking about while I have already dumped that in the rubbish bin, but this is where true astronomical and cosmological studiers should place their efforts if they wish to begin an undertaking of the laws of nature and decipher through what we have been told versus what adds up in all measures of reality.

I at least have the humility to admit that I do not put my faith in all bad models, including the Copernican beach ball and the Gleason pancake, and I examined all of them and the concepts that begot them before I begin to believe in something. The only thing in my life that I never needed an explanation to believe in was God, whom I was both loving and fearing from a young age. Some other topics I knew were lies based on that spiritual antenna which I believe is just more attuned in some people than others.

People will always question their surroundings, it is in our nature. You can't forcibly take this from them, you can't call them kooks and retards enough to make them drop this, and you can't shame them onto a shanghaied belief system to suit your own comfort in the subject. We can talk about flight times and cardinalities and equations ad nauseum, but none of these are actual proofs. Just think about this. Each one of these two models can disprove the other based on the frameworks that those models are derived in. Even flat earthers do not see this dialectic trap.

I would invite all of you to look into deeper cosmology and not just A: what you have been told your entire life and B: what the skeptics immediately supplant for that belief.
I refer to my previous statement about using first hand map data to conduct target mensuration with satellite imagery that the model of the Earth, as a globe.... is correct.

There are PLENTY of other conspiracies which I am willing to entertain (JFK Assassination, Moon landing oddities, Covid Vaccines, Project Mockingbird, ect ect ect....) its just this one is pretty much empirically solved from folks who've spent time doing the things in real life with lives on the line.

As I've stated.... if those assumptions of spherical modeling weren't accurate, we would not have used them in precision targeting, with literal lives on the line and needing to remove as much extraneous information as possible to expedite target acquisition.

I'm all for challenging the status quo, and looking for new insight into things. But Again, this is one that there stands enough common sense - real world legitimacy to.

It's like Q tardery. Same boat, same category. We all WANT to believe in the possibility there... but its a fool's errand.
 
Not just the distances, but the areas on the flat earth map are completely out of whack: Australia looks bigger than Russia, South America much bigger than North America etc.
Because they might actually be that big? Conversely, Greenland on Larry's page map, has visually about the size of Africa and even a bit bigger than S America. Then, go to Wikipedia and find out the square meters of those, especially Greenland, see if its comparable in size to Africa or S America. You guys are falling into your own traps 🙂

For the CIA ops and feds reading this thread and sipping a fresh coffee, Barbara Bush was a man 😂For rest there is Mastercard.
 
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