Coronavirus Lounge

@budoslavic, maybe you are right. It would make sense to do the same excuse of "the-mail-ins-are-just-all-the-people-sheltering" again.

I keep thinking they can't possibly pull off the pandemic thing again with the increased voices of criticism out there with the current iteration of twitter, Musk, RFK jr, and more emboldened conservatives but I'm probably underestimating what's possible.

There is going to have to be some new spin to shame voices of criticism again.

Then again, they did just go with Kamala and have been successful with super low tier ideas.
 
@budoslavic, maybe you are right. It would make sense to do the same excuse of "the-mail-ins-are-just-all-the-people-sheltering" again.

I keep thinking they can't possibly pull off the pandemic thing again with the increased voices of criticism out there with the current iteration of twitter, Musk, RFK jr, and more emboldened conservatives but I'm probably underestimating what's possible.

There is going to have to be some new spin to shame voices of criticism again.

Then again, they did just go with Kamala and have been successful with super low tier ideas.
Not only that, note the coordination and timing by the Globalists' plan to get rid of (censor) "free speech" based on "hate speech" or "misinformation" before the upcoming elections - i.e., foreign governments like Germany, France, Brazil, etc. are going after social media companies such as Telegram's Pavel Durov, Gab's Andrew Torba, X's Elon Musk, Rumble's Chris Pavlovski, etc.

Globalists are desperately trying to stop the rise of worldwide populism, which has been influenced through social media platforms. They do not want Trump to win this November.

Mike Benz was on the Tucker Carlson Podcast where he went into details on government projects, what government agencies are involved, who is involved, etc. It is a fascinating interview to learn about the major players, organizations and alphabet agencies involved.
 
Reminder that posting unpopular opinions is not against the forum rules.

If you disagree with another poster's take, you can respectfully engage with them and point out their error, or ignore them. Do not report people you disagree with just because you don't like what they're saying.
 
My friend if you didn't take jab you can be excluded from public services and lose your job. This depend on the oblast but in many oblast this was policy.

No fines just lose your job and no government services.

The people that can be prosecuted are people that break the law. So this means they don't follow lockdown orders, manufacture fake vaccine certificate, spread misinformation on vaccine online.

Those are the people in trouble.

Here is for instance Russia anti terror police stopping illegal party in restaurant, arresting people inside for night and giving them fines



Also before I speak about heretic monk nikolai Romanov, he tell his followers to not follow rules and laws, and keep his church open. He is now in jail for 4 years.


View attachment 11998


Your tweet is from 2019 when it first hit and many nations succumbed to the notion to be overzealous rather than regret it later.

The latter is a corruption of your court system. I don't know all the circumstances around the jailed schemamonk, but to accuse a priest of inciting people to suicide for saying that you should be ready to die for your faith is rather disgusting and looks quite bad on the courts.


From the article, most here would find this man reasonable.

"Judging by his actions, Sergius is rather skeptical towards the leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church. The situation around the coronavirus pandemic has clearly demonstrated this. Sergius openly, in a video message, cursed everyone who called for the closure of churches during self-isolation.

In addition, shegumen Sergius criticized the digital identification of individuals, the collection of biometric data, calling it the path to the "satanic regime." “Gazeta.ru” reports that a criminal case was instituted against Father Sergius by the Center for Combating Extremism of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the Sverdlovsk Region under article 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation “Incitement to hatred or enmity, as well as humiliation of human dignity”.

In the end, the leadership of the diocese forbade Sergius to serve, but he did not obey this decision. Cleric George Viktorov, who was appointed to the place of Sergius, was not allowed into the monastery. The sheikhumen himself flatly refuses to leave the monastery, although he is prescribed by the diocesan authorities in the St. John the Theological male monastery."

Really the only thing he did wrong was seize and retain power. But I can't completely fault the man, for according to the article he founded the monastery.
What are these measures? First, the observation a social distance in a church, obligatory masks for worshippers, disinfection of the communion spoon after each partaker, interim refusal of some traditional Orthodox ways of expressing the worship of God and veneration of saints, for instance, kissing icons. And in case of the kissing does take place, a church worker should rub the surface of the icon with spirits after each one who kissed it (certainly, in such a case, an icon should be placed under a glass icon case). There is a whole set of restricting measures which we seek to observe.

Now, I don't know the circumstances around this former Metropolitan, but again, . In June 2022, following a meeting of the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church, Hilarion was removed from his position as president of the Department of External Church Relations of the Patriarchate of Moscow and dismissed as Metropolitan of Volokolamsk. He was appointed to the Metropolis of Budapest-Hungary, then suspended in July 2024. This article is from around July 8-10 2021, and with opinions this Metropolitan expressed, he's functionally not Orthodox but an atheist.

Why do you constantly post half truths? Post things in context.
Pride is biggest sin my friend, you are prideful thinking you know better then your spiritual and national leaders.


Orthodoxy has never been, nor shall ever be blind obedience to authority, as St John Chrysostom has said "The road to hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts"

Pot calling the kettle black. If you can find some humility and want to read some scientific literature that shows you that masks don't work, and that the pandemic measures killed more people than they saved, and the vaccine campaigns corresponded to an increase in deaths then you can get started here.

 
Your tweet is from 2019 when it first hit and many nations succumbed to the notion to be overzealous rather than regret it later.

The latter is a corruption of your court system. I don't know all the circumstances around the jailed schemamonk, but to accuse a priest of inciting people to suicide for saying that you should be ready to die for your faith is rather disgusting and looks quite bad on the courts.


From the article, most here would find this man reasonable.

"Judging by his actions, Sergius is rather skeptical towards the leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church. The situation around the coronavirus pandemic has clearly demonstrated this. Sergius openly, in a video message, cursed everyone who called for the closure of churches during self-isolation.

In addition, shegumen Sergius criticized the digital identification of individuals, the collection of biometric data, calling it the path to the "satanic regime." “Gazeta.ru” reports that a criminal case was instituted against Father Sergius by the Center for Combating Extremism of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the Sverdlovsk Region under article 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation “Incitement to hatred or enmity, as well as humiliation of human dignity”.

In the end, the leadership of the diocese forbade Sergius to serve, but he did not obey this decision. Cleric George Viktorov, who was appointed to the place of Sergius, was not allowed into the monastery. The sheikhumen himself flatly refuses to leave the monastery, although he is prescribed by the diocesan authorities in the St. John the Theological male monastery."

Really the only thing he did wrong was seize and retain power. But I can't completely fault the man, for according to the article he founded the monastery.


Now, I don't know the circumstances around this former Metropolitan, but again, . In June 2022, following a meeting of the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church, Hilarion was removed from his position as president of the Department of External Church Relations of the Patriarchate of Moscow and dismissed as Metropolitan of Volokolamsk. He was appointed to the Metropolis of Budapest-Hungary, then suspended in July 2024. This article is from around July 8-10 2021, and with opinions this Metropolitan expressed, he's functionally not Orthodox but an atheist.

Why do you constantly post half truths? Post things in context.



Orthodoxy has never been, nor shall ever be blind obedience to authority, as St John Chrysostom has said "The road to hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts"

Pot calling the kettle black. If you can find some humility and want to read some scientific literature that shows you that masks don't work, and that the pandemic measures killed more people than they saved, and the vaccine campaigns corresponded to an increase in deaths then you can get started here.

My friend the tweet is from December 19 2020, please go to optician.

Russian orthodox church is very clear on Coronavirus and covid vaccine, don't have to slander metropolitan Hilarion to prove your point. Calling Metropolitan Hilarion an atheist?! My friend until my article you didn't know him and now you are name-calling.

Very very bad behavior my friend, orthodox unworthy. Who are you to talk about one of highest persons in Russian Orthodox church like this?

Russian orthodox church from beginning say 'vaccines work, we support vaccination, anti vaxx opinion is disinformation but people have right to make their decisions'

People that convert one year ago now going to lecture me on Orthodox religion. My friend please don't do this.

Here is Orthodox Church roundtable document on ethical aspects of vaccinations.

 
Last edited:
My friend the tweet is from December 19 2020, please go to optician.

Russian orthodox church is very clear on Coronavirus and covid vaccine, don't have to slander metropolitan Hilarion to prove your point. Calling Metropolitan Hilarion an atheist?! My friend until my article you didn't know him and now you are name-calling.

Very very bad behavior my friend, orthodox unworthy. Who are you to talk about one of highest persons in Russian Orthodox church like this?

Russian orthodox church from beginning say 'vaccines work, we support vaccination, anti vaxx opinion is disinformation but people have right to make their decisions'

People that convert one year ago now going to lecture me on Orthodox religion. My friend please don't do this.

Here is Orthodox Church roundtable document on ethical aspects of vaccinations.


Imho the church (Catholic or Orthodox) has no right regarding the statement "vaccines work". This is a scientific standpoint not a theological one.

And when then the Pope suggested that taking the vaccine was good for your neighbor, we discovered that taking the vaccine provided no protection for your neighbor. So completely debunked. And eliminated this being a decision based on any type of morality. It was whether you understood the risks vs benefits. Bottom line.
 
People that convert one year ago now going to lecture me on Orthodox religion. My friend please don't do this.

I'm not even converted yet and people who have so much faith in science and vaccines etc give me pause. I mean, really, vaccines are absolutely nothing compared to the Eucharist. nothing.

Russian orthodox church from beginning say 'vaccines work, we support vaccination, anti vaxx opinion is disinformation but people have right to make their decisions'

It's too bad that people give so much value to completely modern materialistic things like vaccines but I get it, "the West", if that's what you want to call it, has won over the world. Everyone wants to be modern. It's shiny, it's "respectable".

Very very bad behavior my friend, orthodox unworthy. Who are you to talk about one of highest persons in Russian Orthodox church like this?

Russian orthodox church from beginning say 'vaccines work, we support vaccination, anti vaxx opinion is disinformation but people have right to make their decisions'

What do the Saints say? I've heard what they've warned of.
 
My friend the tweet is from December 19 2020, please go to optician.

Russian orthodox church is very clear on Coronavirus and covid vaccine, don't have to slander metropolitan Hilarion to prove your point. Calling Metropolitan Hilarion an atheist?! My friend until my article you didn't know him and now you are name-calling.

Very very bad behavior my friend, orthodox unworthy. Who are you to talk about one of highest persons in Russian Orthodox church like this?

Russian orthodox church from beginning say 'vaccines work, we support vaccination, anti vaxx opinion is disinformation but people have right to make their decisions'

People that convert one year ago now going to lecture me on Orthodox religion. My friend please don't do this.

Here is Orthodox Church roundtable document on ethical aspects of vaccinations.


You're absolutely right, the first lockdowns didn't start until early 2020 so the date I posted wouldn't have made sense. In that light, then the Russian government was doing no different than the Western nations, acting in defiance of all reasonable conclusions, thank you for that.

Is whatever a hierarch says truth because he occupies an office? That's Roman Catholicism, not Orthodoxy. It's not slander if the words that you posted were accurate, if he believes the body of Christ can transmit disease, he would be double minded saying that source of Life also transmits disease and thus blaspheming God, and is acting like an faithless atheist. I expect better from a hierarch. It matters little to me what position a man holds, I only care if what he says reflects reality.

From that Roundtable you posted.


The Russian Orthodox Church has consistently adhered to the principles of the protection of defending the individual’s right to choose to use or not to use new and rapidly developing technologies, including in the field of medicine. In particular, the Bases of the Social Concept of the Russian Orthodox Church emphasizes that “the doctor-patient relationships should be built on respect for the integrity, free choice and dignity of the personality. It is inadmissible to manipulate him even for the best purposes” (XI.3). In following the aforementioned principle and at the same time recognizing the importance of supporting initiatives for defeating the pandemic, including the widespread use of vaccines, the round table participants believe it vital to guarantee peoples’ freedom to chose in relation to taking the vaccination against the COVID-19 infection and to exclude all forms of open or secret discrimination of people who refuse this vaccine for whatever reason. It should be noted that cases that have come to light of manipulating people forcibly into taking the vaccine and other actions aimed against the aforementioned freedom of choice evoke a negative reaction and merely serve to bolster rumours and anxiety among those who have taken measures to protect their health.

The concern of a part of society in relation to using a vaccine, including the vaccine for the COVID-19 infection, has been conditioned, among other reasons, by fears of post-vaccine complications and the routine approach to immune-prophylactics which does not taken into account the individual peculiarities of people. The round table participants, in noting that an evaluation of the effectiveness and degree of risk of side effects of medicines is not within the Church’s competence and is not one of her tasks, nonetheless emphasize the importance of a broad expert and publica debate on the side effects, including delayed ones, as well as on the certification of these medicines. No less important is the complete and accessible imparting of information to people who have decided to take the vaccine and the degree of how necessary it is and its possible effects. There is also a need for a clear and public resolution of the issue of adequate medical aid and social support for people in instances wh ere serious and long-term post-vaccine complications arise.

There is nothing wrong with that, there's nothing in there that says that "Vaccines work" or "We support vaccination", the only part about anti-vax is this
At the same time, the round table participants regard as impermissible and sinful the spread of false evidence identifying the vaccine as “the seal of the antichrist” as well as conspiracy theories on the supposed use of vaccines as a secret means of introducing micro-chips into the human race."

All they are condemning on here is theories and not justifiable evidence, and they even admitted,

The round table participants, in noting that an evaluation of the effectiveness and degree of risk of side effects of medicines is not within the Church’s competence and is not one of her tasks, nonetheless emphasize the importance of a broad expert and publica debate on the side effects,

So this, the participants of that roundtable should have no problem with

Which you're convieniently ignoring, which shows there is no evidence of any large vaccine rollouts in the past 5 years ever being associated with reductions in excess all-cause mortality, in any country. Period, the data doesn't exist.

There is no systematic or statistically significant general or apparent trend that the large vaccination campaigns in 2021 and 2022 are associated with any reduction in excess all-cause mortality. Many countries have no excess mortality until the vaccines are rolled out. Several countries show temporal associations between vaccine rollouts and peaks or increases in all-cause mortality.

This means that rather than Covid killing people, vaccines did, and you should consider changing your tune, that is, if you are my friend. Because only my friends would change their opinion in the face of contrary evidence.

He who denies evidence is not my friend, but has the demons for friends.
 
Last edited:
Reminder that posting unpopular opinions is not against the forum rules.

If you disagree with another poster's take, you can respectfully engage with them and point out their error, or ignore them. Do not report people you disagree with just because you don't like what they're saying.

Well the discourse has devolved quite a bit recently and not everyone has the time to deal with the recent influx of new posters. Now suggesting that reporting those obvious agents or lunatics makes the whole reporting button seem useless.
 
You're absolutely right, the first lockdowns didn't start until early 2020 so the date I posted wouldn't have made sense. In that light, then the Russian government was doing no different than the Western nations, acting in defiance of all reasonable conclusions, thank you for that.

Is whatever a hierarch says truth because he occupies an office? That's Roman Catholicism, not Orthodoxy. It's not slander if the words that you posted were accurate, if he believes the body of Christ can transmit disease, he would be double minded saying that source of Life also transmits disease and thus blaspheming God, and is acting like an faithless atheist. I expect better from a hierarch. It matters little to me what position a man holds, I only care if what he says reflects reality.

From that Roundtable you posted.




There is nothing wrong with that, there's nothing in there that says that "Vaccines work" or "We support vaccination", the only part about anti-vax is this


All they are condemning on here is theories and not justifiable evidence, and they even admitted,



So this, the participants of that roundtable should have no problem with

Which you're convieniently ignoring, which shows there is no evidence of any large vaccine rollouts in the past 5 years ever being associated with reductions in excess all-cause mortality, in any country. Period, the data doesn't exist.



This means that rather than Covid killing people, vaccines did, and you should consider changing your tune, that is, if you are my friend. Because only my friends would change their opinion in the face of contrary evidence.

He who denies evidence is not my friend, but has the demons for friends.
Haha my friend you never heard of this document before today?

Am I right?

I will post article here so people can read themself. Anti vaxxer nonsense has no room in Russian Orthodox Church, it is only strange foreign recent converts that try to use our Russian Orthodox Church for their own anti vaxxer agenda.

I don't allow this, I won't let it happen.

Round Table Final Document on the Ethical Aspects of Vaccination in the Light of Orthodox Teaching​

There was held on 20 May 2021 at the Sretensky Theological Academy a round table on the ethical problems of vaccination in the light of Orthodox teaching. At the conclusion of the event the participants issued a final document which stated the following:

“The participants of the round table on the ethical problems of vaccination in the light of Orthodox teaching – the members of the Inter-conciliar Presence of the Russian Orthodox Church, specialists in the field of medicine and biology and representatives of Orthodox public opinion – discussed issues which arose, including among the faithful of the Russian Orthodox Church, concerning the vaccination against the COVID-19 infection.

Deserving of our gratitude and respect are the scientists and doctors who have exerted every effort to combat the effects and to avert the further spread of COVID-19 virus which has taken the lives of many people and caused significant disruption to peoples’ lives. Today, as in the past, thanks to the achievements of medical science, including in the field of vaccine prophylactics, it has become possible to warn of and lower the spread of many diseases, to alleviate the suffering which they bring to people and to reduce the mortality rate to zero after the use of vaccines for these diseases.

The historical experience of the Russian Orthodox Church has given us examples of the active participation of clergy in extending the practice of vaccination as a medical procedure aimed at preserving the lives and health of people. In particular, the decree of the Holy Governing Synod of 1804 recommended that bishops and priests should explain to the people the benefits of vaccinations fr om smallpox. At the time, clergy had to study as part of their general education the basic means of applying vaccinations from this disease. The spread of vaccination programmes was supported, for example, by the ruling bishop of Moscow Innocent.[1]

It is erroneous to think that a firm refusal to take a vaccine as such can be justified by Orthodox teaching. The right to choose a vaccine or the right to refuse it is the individual decision of each person (with regards to a child, his or her parents or legal representatives) taken on the basis of personal beliefs, knowledge and experience of life, as well as by taking into account information from medical workers, the scientific community and vaccine manufacturers.

The Russian Orthodox Church has consistently adhered to the principles of the protection of defending the individual’s right to choose to use or not to use new and rapidly developing technologies, including in the field of medicine. In particular, the Bases of the Social Concept of the Russian Orthodox Church emphasizes that “the doctor-patient relationships should be built on respect for the integrity, free choice and dignity of the personality. It is inadmissible to manipulate him even for the best purposes” (XI.3). In following the aforementioned principle and at the same time recognizing the importance of supporting initiatives for defeating the pandemic, including the widespread use of vaccines, the round table participants believe it vital to guarantee peoples’ freedom to chose in relation to taking the vaccination against the COVID-19 infection and to exclude all forms of open or secret discrimination of people who refuse this vaccine for whatever reason. It should be noted that cases that have come to light of manipulating people forcibly into taking the vaccine and other actions aimed against the aforementioned freedom of choice evoke a negative reaction and merely serve to bolster rumours and anxiety among those who have taken measures to protect their health.

The concern of a part of society in relation to using a vaccine, including the vaccine for the COVID-19 infection, has been conditioned, among other reasons, by fears of post-vaccine complications and the routine approach to immune-prophylactics which does not taken into account the individual peculiarities of people. The round table participants, in noting that an evaluation of the effectiveness and degree of risk of side effects of medicines is not within the Church’s competence and is not one of her tasks, nonetheless emphasize the importance of a broad expert and publica debate on the side effects, including delayed ones, as well as on the certification of these medicines. No less important is the complete and accessible imparting of information to people who have decided to take the vaccine and the degree of how necessary it is and its possible effects. There is also a need for a clear and public resolution of the issue of adequate medical aid and social support for people in instances wh ere serious and long-term post-vaccine complications arise.

At the same time, the round table participants regard as impermissible and sinful the spread of false evidence identifying the vaccine as “the seal of the antichrist” as well as conspiracy theories on the supposed use of vaccines as a secret means of introducing micro-chips into the human race.

The church community is alarmed at the fact that in the creation of certain vaccines, including vaccines against the COVID-19 infection, there have been used stem cells grown from embryonic human cells obtained as a result of abortions, even if they occurred a half century ago or more. As the Bases of the Social Concept notes, the Russian Orthodox Church believes to be wrong “the extraction and use of the tissues and organs of a human foetus aborted at an early stage of development as a means of curing various diseases and illnesses” (XII.7). It should be noted that according to information published by vaccine manufacturers the vaccines do not contains embryonic stem cells and that the aforementioned stem cells have been used for many years for the creation of vaccines. However, representatives of the scientific community (the participants of the round table) noted that in testing the stages of development of other vaccines and many other medicines there had been used similar embryonic human stem cells. The round table participants, in taking note of this situation, believe it necessary for pharmaceutical companies to explore the possibility of using technologies that would exclude the use of the aforementioned stem cells.

In taking into account all of the above, the round table participants believe that at the present time, in view of the absence of an accessible alternative and bearing in mind the threat to the health and lives of people that COVID-19 poses, the Orthodox Christian, in taking the vaccine against the disease, made or tested by using embryonic human stem cells, is not a participant in the sin of the abortion as a result of which this stem cell was made. If it is possible to choose between this type of vaccine and a vaccine developed without the use of embryonic human stem cells, the round table participants speak out in favour of the use of the latter type of vaccine as ethically more acceptable.

The round table participants call upon people to treat with respect those who consider it possible to take for themselves or for their children a vaccine prepared using embryonic human stem cells, as well as those who refuse to take it.

The round table participants believe it important to continue debate on the moral aspects of the broad application in medicine of cell cultures grown from embryonic human stem cells.
 
Haha my friend you never heard of this document before today?
Tell us. What is in the vaccine?

Am I right?
Are we wrong to question what kind of ingredients are in the COVID vaccine?

...Anti vaxxer nonsense has no room in Russian Orthodox Church, it is only strange foreign recent converts that try to use our Russian Orthodox Church for their own anti vaxxer agenda.
The COVID vaccine used the following ingredients: aborted fetal cells, which present moral problems. If you support aborted fetal cells in a vaccine, then you are a pro-abortion supporter. Christians do not support abortion.

Also, mRNA vaccine technologies involve an alteration of human DNA at the cellular level, which is an immoral change to our humanity.

In conclusion, take your pro-vaccine agenda and shove it. You are clearly a troll who is pretending to be an "Orthodox".
 
Tell us. What is in the vaccine?


Are we wrong to question what kind of ingredients are in the COVID vaccine?


The COVID vaccine used the following ingredients: aborted fetal cells, which present moral problems. If you support aborted fetal cells in a vaccine, then you are a pro-abortion supporter. Christians do not support abortion.

Also, mRNA vaccine technologies involve an alteration of human DNA at the cellular level, which is an immoral change to our humanity.

In conclusion, take your pro-vaccine agenda and shove it. You are clearly a troll who is pretending to be an "Orthodox".
Patriarch Kirill was vaccinate at least three times with sputnik vaccine.

You are mad because your themepark fantasy image of the world got destroyed by me. The Russian Orthodox Church support covid vaccination, understands the serious nature of covod and is against online misinformation.

This forum is big chicken farm, everybody cackling but nobody is listening to what our church leaders are saying.

Are you saying you know better then Patriarch Kirill?


My friend I am Orthodox, I was raised in Orthodox family. Unlike others here who see the religion as vehicle for their agenda and think it is fashion to become Orthodox.

But I will stop posting in coronavirus thread, it is too big issue for many people. I will pray for them but not talk to them any more.
 
Last edited:
Haha my friend you never heard of this document before today?

Am I right?

I will post article here so people can read themself. Anti vaxxer nonsense has no room in Russian Orthodox Church, it is only strange foreign recent converts that try to use our Russian Orthodox Church for their own anti vaxxer agenda.

I don't allow this, I won't let it happen.

Round Table Final Document on the Ethical Aspects of Vaccination in the Light of Orthodox Teaching​

There was held on 20 May 2021 at the Sretensky Theological Academy a round table on the ethical problems of vaccination in the light of Orthodox teaching. At the conclusion of the event the participants issued a final document which stated the following:

“The participants of the round table on the ethical problems of vaccination in the light of Orthodox teaching – the members of the Inter-conciliar Presence of the Russian Orthodox Church, specialists in the field of medicine and biology and representatives of Orthodox public opinion – discussed issues which arose, including among the faithful of the Russian Orthodox Church, concerning the vaccination against the COVID-19 infection.

Deserving of our gratitude and respect are the scientists and doctors who have exerted every effort to combat the effects and to avert the further spread of COVID-19 virus which has taken the lives of many people and caused significant disruption to peoples’ lives. Today, as in the past, thanks to the achievements of medical science, including in the field of vaccine prophylactics, it has become possible to warn of and lower the spread of many diseases, to alleviate the suffering which they bring to people and to reduce the mortality rate to zero after the use of vaccines for these diseases.

The historical experience of the Russian Orthodox Church has given us examples of the active participation of clergy in extending the practice of vaccination as a medical procedure aimed at preserving the lives and health of people. In particular, the decree of the Holy Governing Synod of 1804 recommended that bishops and priests should explain to the people the benefits of vaccinations fr om smallpox. At the time, clergy had to study as part of their general education the basic means of applying vaccinations from this disease. The spread of vaccination programmes was supported, for example, by the ruling bishop of Moscow Innocent.[1]

It is erroneous to think that a firm refusal to take a vaccine as such can be justified by Orthodox teaching. The right to choose a vaccine or the right to refuse it is the individual decision of each person (with regards to a child, his or her parents or legal representatives) taken on the basis of personal beliefs, knowledge and experience of life, as well as by taking into account information from medical workers, the scientific community and vaccine manufacturers.

The Russian Orthodox Church has consistently adhered to the principles of the protection of defending the individual’s right to choose to use or not to use new and rapidly developing technologies, including in the field of medicine. In particular, the Bases of the Social Concept of the Russian Orthodox Church emphasizes that “the doctor-patient relationships should be built on respect for the integrity, free choice and dignity of the personality. It is inadmissible to manipulate him even for the best purposes” (XI.3). In following the aforementioned principle and at the same time recognizing the importance of supporting initiatives for defeating the pandemic, including the widespread use of vaccines, the round table participants believe it vital to guarantee peoples’ freedom to chose in relation to taking the vaccination against the COVID-19 infection and to exclude all forms of open or secret discrimination of people who refuse this vaccine for whatever reason. It should be noted that cases that have come to light of manipulating people forcibly into taking the vaccine and other actions aimed against the aforementioned freedom of choice evoke a negative reaction and merely serve to bolster rumours and anxiety among those who have taken measures to protect their health.

The concern of a part of society in relation to using a vaccine, including the vaccine for the COVID-19 infection, has been conditioned, among other reasons, by fears of post-vaccine complications and the routine approach to immune-prophylactics which does not taken into account the individual peculiarities of people. The round table participants, in noting that an evaluation of the effectiveness and degree of risk of side effects of medicines is not within the Church’s competence and is not one of her tasks, nonetheless emphasize the importance of a broad expert and publica debate on the side effects, including delayed ones, as well as on the certification of these medicines.
No less important is the complete and accessible imparting of information to people who have decided to take the vaccine and the degree of how necessary it is and its possible effects. There is also a need for a clear and public resolution of the issue of adequate medical aid and social support for people in instances wh ere serious and long-term post-vaccine complications arise.

At the same time, the round table participants regard as impermissible and sinful the spread of false evidence identifying the vaccine as “the seal of the antichrist” as well as conspiracy theories on the supposed use of vaccines as a secret means of introducing micro-chips into the human race.

The church community is alarmed at the fact that in the creation of certain vaccines, including vaccines against the COVID-19 infection, there have been used stem cells grown from embryonic human cells obtained as a result of abortions, even if they occurred a half century ago or more. As the Bases of the Social Concept notes, the Russian Orthodox Church believes to be wrong “the extraction and use of the tissues and organs of a human foetus aborted at an early stage of development as a means of curing various diseases and illnesses” (XII.7). It should be noted that according to information published by vaccine manufacturers the vaccines do not contains embryonic stem cells and that the aforementioned stem cells have been used for many years for the creation of vaccines. However, representatives of the scientific community (the participants of the round table) noted that in testing the stages of development of other vaccines and many other medicines there had been used similar embryonic human stem cells. The round table participants, in taking note of this situation, believe it necessary for pharmaceutical companies to explore the possibility of using technologies that would exclude the use of the aforementioned stem cells.

In taking into account all of the above, the round table participants believe that at the present time, in view of the absence of an accessible alternative and bearing in mind the threat to the health and lives of people that COVID-19 poses, the Orthodox Christian, in taking the vaccine against the disease, made or tested by using embryonic human stem cells, is not a participant in the sin of the abortion as a result of which this stem cell was made. If it is possible to choose between this type of vaccine and a vaccine developed without the use of embryonic human stem cells, the round table participants speak out in favour of the use of the latter type of vaccine as ethically more acceptable.

The round table participants call upon people to treat with respect those who consider it possible to take for themselves or for their children a vaccine prepared using embryonic human stem cells, as well as those who refuse to take it.

The round table participants believe it important to continue debate on the moral aspects of the broad application in medicine of cell cultures grown from embryonic human stem cells.

Calm down, and re-read the bolded parts. I have not said anything out of line with this, why are you mad when I post the studies that comes to the conclusions that the Covid measures killed more than they saved?

The only irrational parts of that document that comes to view immediately is the part I italicized/underlined, as self-interested sources cannot be a valid source of information for obvious reasons, this includes the scientific community when the "science" is funded by the same self-interested people.
The COVID vaccine used the following ingredients: aborted fetal cells, which present moral problems. If you support aborted fetal cells in a vaccine, then you are a pro-abortion supporter. Christians do not support abortion.

Also, mRNA vaccine technologies involve an alteration of human DNA at the cellular level, which is an immoral change to our humanity.

In conclusion, take your pro-vaccine agenda and shove it. You are clearly a troll who is pretending to be an "Orthodox".
In the document he posted, (I italicized and underline the paragraph) the conclusion is irrational due to the fact for if one version is more ethically acceptable, the other is admittedly more sinful, and the only way "the round table" absolves this is by the special pleading.

If you'd prefer the data i posted in video form, the author presents it here.


There is blood on the hands of those that promoted vaccines and other covid measures. Being a hierarch of the church does not absolve you of guilt but amplify it.
 
Last edited:
Patriarch Kirill was vaccinate at least three times with sputnik vaccine.
You don't get it, do you? Your country's vaccine's ingredients are not the same as Western countries' vaccine's ingredients. Capisce?

You are mad because your themepark fantasy image of the world got destroyed by me. The Russian Orthodox Church support covid vaccination, understands the serious nature of covod and is against online misinformation.
You are clueless. Western's Orthodox Churches and Russia's Orthodox Churches made their own choice in whether priests and parishioners support vaccination. Every church is different. *sighs* :rolleyes:

This forum is big chicken farm, everybody cackling but nobody is listening to what our church leaders are saying.
You do you. (y) The difference between Western countries and Russia is we did our due diligent in researching the drug companies' vaccines - Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Moderna, etc. During COVID Pandemic, all of the pharmaceutical companies were protected from immunity - a major red flag - when they started making the vaccines.

The old RVF site had wealth of information on COVID-related topics. We paid attention to everything - i.e., vaccines, COVID passport, digital passport, media propaganda, etc. - during the COVID Pandemic. Of course, we looked at how the vaccines were made, whether if spike proteins were possible, whether if clinical safety trials were done, whether if there were adverse reactions, etc.

Are you saying you know better then Patriarch Kirill?
No, I am not saying that. Knock it off.

Each diocese and/or church in Western countries made their own decision (or choice) on whether to get vaccinated or not.

My friend I am Orthodox, I was raised in Orthodox family. Unlike others here who see the religion as vehicle for their agenda and think it is fashion to become Orthodox.
"Fashion"? :rolleyes: This is not a competition. Just stop it.

I grew up in an Orthodox Church environment. My late grandparents brought their Orthodox religion with them from Eastern Europe. One of my cousins is an Orthodox priest - who can speak fluent Russian and Old Slavonic - for more than 40 years in a tiny Russian Orthodox Church in small town America.

You are the one with an agenda due to your pro-vaccine stance and thinks everybody in the West is a fool for not being vaccinated.

There is a reason why God created natural immunity. Look around...most of the CIK members are unvaccinated because we prefer God's natural immunity over vaccines.

But I will stop posting in coronavirus thread, it is too big issue for many people. I will pray for them but not talk to them any more.
That is due to your lack of knowledge and understanding of how the Globalists Regime operate and what they are capable of. They are downright evil.
 
You don't get it, do you? Your country's vaccine's ingredients are not the same as Western countries' vaccine's ingredients. Capisce?


You are clueless. Western's Orthodox Churches and Russia's Orthodox Churches made their own choice in whether priests and parishioners support vaccination. Every church is different. *sighs* :rolleyes:


You do you. (y) The difference between Western countries and Russia is we did our due diligent in researching the drug companies' vaccines - Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Moderna, etc. During COVID Pandemic, all of the pharmaceutical companies were protected from immunity - a major red flag - when they started making the vaccines.

The old RVF site had wealth of information on COVID-related topics. We paid attention to everything - i.e., vaccines, COVID passport, digital passport, media propaganda, etc. - during the COVID Pandemic. Of course, we looked at how the vaccines were made, whether if spike proteins were possible, whether if clinical safety trials were done, whether if there were adverse reactions, etc.


No, I am not saying that. Knock it off.

Each diocese and/or church in Western countries made their own decision (or choice) on whether to get vaccinated or not.


"Fashion"? :rolleyes: This is not a competition. Just stop it.

I grew up in an Orthodox Church environment. My late grandparents brought their Orthodox religion with them from Eastern Europe. One of my cousins is an Orthodox priest - who can speak fluent Russian and Old Slavonic - for more than 40 years in a tiny Russian Orthodox Church in small town America.

You are the one with an agenda due to your pro-vaccine stance and thinks everybody in the West is a fool for not being vaccinated.

There is a reason why God created natural immunity. Look around...most of the CIK members are unvaccinated because we prefer God's natural immunity over vaccines.


That is due to your lack of knowledge and understanding of how the Globalists Regime operate and what they are capable of. They are downright evil.
It is capiche better not use language you don't understand my friend.

Also Russia Gamalaya Institute work together with Astra Zeneca for long time. Astra Zeneca and Sputnik vaccine very similar. Yes there is war and political problems but our scientists have big cooperation with scientists from West


Also you must understand that Pfizer, Moderna and Astra Seneca are acceptable vaccines in Russia and have been approved by the Russian Ministry of Health for work. So this means they are effective.


Also you must understand that Russia is leading world in MRNA vaccine development. Another scientific field Russia is surprising world in. We are developing MRNA cancer vaccine and also MRNA coronavirus vaccine. Our scientists are best in the world.

Two main Gamalaya vaccine scientists Alexander Gintsburg and Anatoliy Altstein are now working om cancer vaccine and will save millions of people from death

The cancer vaccine name is Satellite V. It is therapeutic vaccine and not preventive vaccine.

https://www.gazeta.ru/science/2024/06/06/19202191.shtml

https://tass.ru/obschestvo/15890073

IMG_20240713_055553_979.webp

Also I don't like you misrepresenting position of Russia Orthodox Church in this thread my friend, so I say it again Russian Orthodox Church says that covid is very real and serious disease, vaccines work, anti vaccine misinformation is sinful and people have right to make own decision
 
Last edited:
You don't get it, do you? Your country's vaccine's ingredients are not the same as Western countries' vaccine's ingredients. Capisce?


You are clueless. Western's Orthodox Churches and Russia's Orthodox Churches made their own choice in whether priests and parishioners support vaccination. Every church is different. *sighs* :rolleyes:


You do you. (y) The difference between Western countries and Russia is we did our due diligent in researching the drug companies' vaccines - Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Moderna, etc. During COVID Pandemic, all of the pharmaceutical companies were protected from immunity - a major red flag - when they started making the vaccines.

The old RVF site had wealth of information on COVID-related topics. We paid attention to everything - i.e., vaccines, COVID passport, digital passport, media propaganda, etc. - during the COVID Pandemic. Of course, we looked at how the vaccines were made, whether if spike proteins were possible, whether if clinical safety trials were done, whether if there were adverse reactions, etc.


No, I am not saying that. Knock it off.

Each diocese and/or church in Western countries made their own decision (or choice) on whether to get vaccinated or not.


"Fashion"? :rolleyes: This is not a competition. Just stop it.

I grew up in an Orthodox Church environment. My late grandparents brought their Orthodox religion with them from Eastern Europe. One of my cousins is an Orthodox priest - who can speak fluent Russian and Old Slavonic - for more than 40 years in a tiny Russian Orthodox Church in small town America.

You are the one with an agenda due to your pro-vaccine stance and thinks everybody in the West is a fool for not being vaccinated.

There is a reason why God created natural immunity. Look around...most of the CIK members are unvaccinated because we prefer God's natural immunity over vaccines.


That is due to your lack of knowledge and understanding of how the Globalists Regime operate and what they are capable of. They are downright evil.

@budoslavic
You know you are arguing with a troll....right ?
 
@budoslavic
You know you are arguing with a troll....right ?
Yep, I had to call him out to expose his B.S. posts. He's already on my ignored list.

Meanwhile...


Kevin Sorbo on the Results of 'Trusting the Science'

"I know an American Airlines pilot who would not take it, and he's now trying to protect all these other pilots that have taken it. There's so many pilots that they call brain fog, ones that have got myocarditis and died...I know personally a friend, his wife was pregnant, and I said don't take the shots because I know they're left leaning...She went and took the shots, seven months pregnant. Baby died three weeks later. They did an autopsy, filled with blood clots. You tell me that's a coincidence."

@ksorbs @triggerpod @KonstantinKisin @francisjfoster


Evolutionary Biologist Colin Wright Shares His Terrifying Experience Following the COVID mRNA Vaccine

"My heart was beating faster and harder than it has ever beat in my life. With every single beat of my heart it felt like it was literally going to explode. There was a pain in each of the heart beats...It was one of the scariest moments in my life."

@SwipeWright @Ravarora1 @DrJBhattacharya @elonmusk @TheIllusionC


NEW – Kansas AG Kris Kobach Announces a Lawsuit Against Pfizer for 'Misleading & Deceptive Statements Made in Marketing Its COVID-19 Vaccine'

"It is part of a multi-state effort in which more suits may follow depending on Pfizer's reaction...The federal government conferred immunity on the vaccine manufacturers for tort suits seeking damages from injuries they received, but that did not free any of the vaccine manufacturers from their obligation to not mislead the public or make deceptive statements in marketing."

@KSAGOffice
 
Last edited:
It is erroneous to think that a firm refusal to take a vaccine as such can be justified by Orthodox teaching. The right to choose a vaccine or the right to refuse it is the individual decision of each person (with regards to a child, his or her parents or legal representatives) taken on the basis of personal beliefs, knowledge and experience of life, as well as by taking into account information from medical workers, the scientific community and vaccine manufacturers.

This pretty much sums up the Church's position: Informed Consent.

What's the big deal? If someone wants to be an Anti-Vaxxer than then Church has no problem with anyone as such.

Some individual Clergy, like the former Metropolitan Hilarion may have a problem, but that's not the position of the Church. That's just one man. Patriarch Kirill has spoken on the right for an individual to refuse the vax many times, and he has also said the Church will never discriminate on who can attend based on immunity status.
 
Back
Top