Catholicism: Criticism & Debate Thread

[Rational1]

I converted to Orthodoxy because I was utterly and completely convinced that it is the true church, via historical and theological arguments, but primarily through the lives of the Saints further cemented by my own experience of the Orthodox life and the Grace of God. i do not believe the Catholic Church has the truth, no matter how based or conservative. To say “come on you’re a Westerner! Orthodoxy isn’t for you” demonstrates a failure to understand. The truth is neither western or eastern.

You are correct in theory that the truth has no geography. The issue with Orthodoxy in the US is the ethnic component. It’s extremely off putting to enter a church and be the only non Greek or non Romanian or whatever nationality exists in that church. Services are in a different language sometimes.

Certain Greek Orthodox churches especially, and I don’t mean to be facetious seem like a total joke. Guys are rolling into church wearing gold chains and driving a white Benz, the girlfriend or wife is dressed in tons of makeup. A friend of mine got married to a Greek woman and told me the priest was watching soccer games during their discussions about marriage.

 

[Rodion]

You are correct in theory that the truth has no geography. The issue with Orthodoxy in the US is the ethnic component. It’s extremely off putting to enter a church and be the only non Greek or non Romanian or whatever nationality exists in that church. Services are in a different language sometimes.

Certain Greek Orthodox churches especially, and I don’t mean to be facetious seem like a total joke. Guys are rolling into church wearing gold chains and driving a white Benz, the girlfriend or wife is dressed in tons of makeup. A friend of mine got married to a Greek woman and told me the priest was watching soccer games during their discussions about marriage.

Yes, it can be off-putting and challenging and you will encounter sinful and negligent people in Orthodox Churches. But none of this is really relevant to whether or not it’s true and shouldn’t be an obstacle to somebody who sincerely desires Orthodoxy.

It’s not an ideal situation, and English liturgies are becoming more common and should be encouraged, but I do think it selects for serious and zealous people. Orthodoxy feels like some underground counter-revolutionary movement in Gay Britain at least.

 

[GoodShepherd]

Not trying to point any fingers, but I suspect this "rootlessness" is a remnant of our sinful past. It seems that the PUA days and the excessive semen loss through self-abuse and fornication during this time left many of us with some form of permanent brain damage or mental disease. I noticed this in myself too - for a long time I used to despise my own heritage and family and thought my own background "sucked". Grass always appeared greener on the other side. It's an illusion, like a Fata Morgana.

Before RVF 2.0, people used to search for exotic hookups in foreign countries. Now, many want to convert (or already have converted) to a religion like Orthodoxy that is exotic to our ancestors because they secretly desire to marry a devout slavic wife from ROCOR church, or go wife-hunting in some remote Eastern European village. Slavs may be Christians, but they are genetically and culturally different from Germanics, more mongoiloid or Asian shifted. Not as bad as taking a Buddhist Thai wife, but still...

It's basically a milder version of the same mental disease that causes European leftifts to promote "anti-racism" and "open border"-policies for their home countries. After years of unhinged sexual sinning and accompanying insanity, men suddenly find that all they really want is Love and Peace, do Yoga and convert to fancy Buddhism. Some become Anime fans who seek to race-mix with a cute girl from Asia. Other westerners say "our women are useless; Polish and Russian women are more traditional/better", convert to Orthodoxy and basically abandon their own women. Shame on us, we should stay faithful to our sisters and defend them. They belong to us no matter what - not to the muslim and African men invading our home countries! Also, it would not be fair for us to steal women from Polish and Russian men.

Now what would be the best solution to stop Europe's downfall? Sure it has to be returning to Christianity in general, but I'm not sure about Orthodoxy as it's foreign to NW Europe. Stick to your roots and take an example from the way your ancestors used to live. If all your known ancestors were Protestants, you would be a "traitor" for switching to Orthodoxy.​

All over western Europe there are Orthodox churches the men dont have to go to Russia to get a wife just attend a local church and you can find a local Orthodox wife

 

[GoodShepherd]

This doesn´t make much sense. It reeks of elitism. And some kind of sense of superiority. They are more pure. What a crock of shit! We are better than you, so you stay out.
I do that to my cat and dog, you know. Keep them out of the house. The dog doesn´t even attempt to enter anymore. The fucking cat always tries to eat our food. The fucker eats bread. Which cat eats bread? FFS. The dog knows how to hunt rabbits. When I arrive home, there´s a dead rabbit in the garden. Living on a farm sure has its perks...

And Roosh seems to be on drugs. He looks awful. He suffered a lot of pressure and cave in. He was really lost. Even though he didn´t kill or steal anyone, There's been too much criticism of him. Like he was a big-time sinner. He exaggerated by banging whores. But come on. Snap out of it. And the idea that everybody has to become some kind of monks. It wasn´t the death of sister only. But the end of an era. PUA had gone. Trump had gone. Now christian. And from this something else would come. But he was already old and worn out. To pull his next thing. Also maintaning the forum didn´t made any utilitarian sense to him. Costs outweighed benefits. If he wasn´t selling books. Why keep this.

Anyway, as for the Catholic Church. Despite the obvious criticism of the current Pope, Who is doing Jesuit work by trying to merge Protestants into the Catholic Church. That´s why he has this position on fags.

Let me tell you a story about Catholics. A relative of mine was asked to house two cath families. He said OK. 16 people showed up. 16. Each couple had six kids. But the house was clean after. So when someone asks you to house a cath family ask how many people first.

Another story. There´s a place like Lourdes in France. The priests go around with a van. And if they find a beggar they force them inside and take them to another village.

There´s hipocrisy. I find it in all christian churches.

The current idea I heard at lunch from some cath who are close to jesuits. Is to accept fags as long as they remain a small number. Something like it´s Ok as long as they are little. It´s a prot thing. We have a jesuit pope. Of course this goes against the Bible. But prot are a bad influence. And the jesuit wants them back into church. With this pope gone. This influence will be gone also. The black cardinal of the silence video is ok. He could be a pope. Or the guy who is in hidding.

Orthodoxy could make sense for Roosh since he had Armenian roots. From his mother, I think. Strangely, he never went into Islam. Which might make more sense. It had something to do with his father. Always something to do with his dad. Some rebellion against him.

But westerners converting into ortho. It seems like you're forcing something. It´s not a western thing. It´s as if you are learning Russian and decide to speak Russian with each other. In the west, you have the Catholic Church. Inside the Catholic Church, you have really conservative groups. Why not attend those? SSPX, or Opus. Maybe inside prots there´s conservative groups. I have a friend from SSPX, and if you told him, a woman could marry three times. He would spit on you. Guy is a fanatic. But I like to talk with him. Every six months. SSPX is french. OPUS is spanish.

I didnt feel that way when I found out that there was only 1 and I wasnt in it, its not a prideful statement if its a factual statement, there was only 1 church for the first 1000 years we all have options, Im a Portuguese decendant I have a Portuguese passport and even in Portugal thats as west you can go there are Orthodox churches there and I heard they are all full. You can deposit fake money at an ATM or bank they not being prideful or mean by rejecting monopoly money they just maintaining that theres only 1 genuine currency even though it all looks the same

 

[magoo]

Didn’t saw any in France or Spain. Only in Finland I think there was a really big beautiful church. In the area where I’m currently living there’s one small tiny church. If I would go there people would probably think I’m some kind of Putin spy. Looll.

Woman from ortho countries are also not really what I would be looking for marriage. Never met a devout one however.

Orthodoxy is fine it seems. You have similar hardcore in catholic. I don’t see enough differences to make the change.
Caths and ortho used to be the same. The most strange I have is a friend from SSPX. But he is half Belgian. Most of my friends are normal catholic. Some Opus Dei. Some jesuit. Jesuits they hide they’re jesuits. At least the English.

I use to know a Opus Dei priest 100% cool guy.

For Protestants it could make more sense. Protestantism is a problem. Which will drag the Western Hemisphere down. It’s the weak part of our spiritual defense. It will be plundered.

What I don’t like in catholic is rich people there who are only going to see and be seen. The parking lot of a Opus Dei mass is full of BMWS and Mercedes. I used to go to churches before mass. And leave because of the rich people who go there just because I don’t like people who pretend.

This Easter the church was packed full of bimbos. I used to pray in a Jesuit church. I felt good there. Churches are really great places. I like to do that. Just go there alone and pray. Will listen to mass if the crowd is normal. If I see rich bimbos checking people I leave.

 

[GoodShepherd]

Didn’t saw any in France or Spain. Only in Finland I think there was a really big beautiful church. In the area where I’m currently living there’s one small tiny church. If I would go there people would probably think I’m some kind of Putin spy. Looll.

Woman from ortho countries are also not really what I would be looking for marriage. Never met a devout one however.

Orthodoxy is fine it seems. You have similar hardcore in catholic. I don’t see enough differences to make the change.
Caths and ortho used to be the same. The most strange I have is a friend from SSPX. But he is half Belgian. Most of my friends are normal catholic. Some Opus Dei. Some jesuit. Jesuits they hide they’re jesuits. At least the English.

I use to know a Opus Dei priest 100% cool guy.

For Protestants it could make more sense. Protestantism is a problem. Which will drag the Western Hemisphere down. It’s the weak part of our spiritual defense. It will be plundered.

What I don’t like in catholic is rich people there who are only going to see and be seen. The parking lot of a Opus Dei mass is full of BMWS and Mercedes. I used to go to churches before mass. And leave because of the rich people who go there just because I don’t like people who pretend.

This Easter the church was packed full of bimbos. I used to pray in a Jesuit church. I felt good there. Churches are really great places. I like to do that. Just go there alone and pray. Will listen to mass if the crowd is normal. If I see rich bimbos checking people I leave.

So the old Roman Catholics were more similar to the Orthodox even in artwork, the changes were gradual and slight, Im still going to study the Roman Catholic side a bit more deeply since I wasnt a Roman Catholic but from what I know and the things I disagree with is the fact that they claim they were the once who did the 1054 excommunication but thats supposed to be done with a proper church council you can just excomunicate on your own and neither did the majority of the Christian world go along with Rome they were the minority, the slight changes I see are things like the sign of the cross, the direction in which the altar stands the differences in the artwork, the difference in the creed Roman Catholics added the words "and the son" regarding the Holy Spirit, the way you guys do lent not as serious, the priests not getting married or having beards, the filoque and infalability of the pope thats a serious one for me that dangerous to give just 1 man all that power and authority with no one else to check and balance him, whats gonna happen when satan succeeds in tempting him, who is gonna correct him? The eucharist is also different, iv also seen some Catholic churches becoming like protestant churches with music and going soft on things, the modern Catholisim and the blessing of gays and all that, thats a problem to me, when my protestant pastor started with his support for things like BLM and apologising when people called him racist and stuff like this thats when I started having serious problems with them and I left, I like that when I go to my Orthodox church it feels like iv gone back a thousand years in time, the power could go off (and many times it has) and nothing really changes and nobody notices

 

[analyst_green]

Bro this poll is a joke for Orthodox, they polled 182 Orthodox to get their numbers for an entire religion and nation??? How can they even release this in good faith, total fake news.

That's why they don't put the margin of error there except in some appendix. In fact, you can calculate it yourself or use this tool. At a 95% confidence level, the gold standard, the margin of error is +- 7%. Because the study found 9% of Orthodox are divorced, this means there is a 95% chance the true proportion of divorced orthodox is between 2% and 16% of the population. So that's not a very useful statistic. A 3% margin of error is generally considered the acceptable limit and you'd have to increase the sample size to 800 Orthodox to get there.

That being said, we have to keep in mind most American Orthodox Christians live in large, liberal cities in the North East and Great Lakes regions due to historical immigration patterns from Eastern Europe. It would not surprise me if many are not particularly pious and are just Orthodox by name, and so don't take marriage seriously.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/mp/margin-of-error-calculator/

 

[magoo]

So the old Roman Catholics were more similar to the Orthodox even in artwork, the changes were gradual and slight, Im still going to study the Roman Catholic side a bit more deeply since I wasnt a Roman Catholic but from what I know and the things I disagree with is the fact that they claim they were the once who did the 1054 excommunication but thats supposed to be done with a proper church council you can just excomunicate on your own and neither did the majority of the Christian world go along with Rome they were the minority, the slight changes I see are things like the sign of the cross, the direction in which the altar stands the differences in the artwork, the difference in the creed Roman Catholics added the words "and the son" regarding the Holy Spirit, the way you guys do lent not as serious, the priests not getting married or having beards, the filoque and infalability of the pope thats a serious one for me that dangerous to give just 1 man all that power and authority with no one else to check and balance him, whats gonna happen when satan succeeds in tempting him, who is gonna correct him? The eucharist is also different, iv also seen some Catholic churches becoming like protestant churches with music and going soft on things, the modern Catholisim and the blessing of gays and all that, thats a problem to me, when my protestant pastor started with his support for things like BLM and apologising when people called him racist and stuff like this thats when I started having serious problems with them and I left, I like that when I go to my Orthodox church it feels like iv gone back a thousand years in time, the power could go off (and many times it has) and nothing really changes and nobody notices

Yeah it´s a problem. Protestants/jewish filth will reach all churches. It´s a matter of time. Orthos are probably left alone because they are still irrelevant.

I´m not so connected to catholic church like I was in 2000´s. So most of what I say is based in this time. Just today I had to leave my oldest kid in the sports team bus at 05:45 am. Had to wake up at 05:00. Fucking savages. My time is for my children. The rest comes after. I asked him if he wanted us to pick him up after. He said no he wanted to come back in the team bus with his friends. So sad. One day he will leave the house. Need to have more.

Anyway back then. Some of my hardcore catholic friends made jokes of protestant priests being fags all the time. There was a priest in Australia who was a raging homo. They are called inverted people. There´s no tolerance for gays. Unless it´s in jesuits circles. And it´s not a given. Jesuits are connected to arts. And were infiltrated by jews. They were the most conservative wing of the church. And they managed to break them.

Catholic church as many factions. Jesuits are the most pro gay. They´ve been heavily infiltrated by jews. But a lot of power of the catholic church is on it´s schools. And the reason we pay heavy fees is so no faggotry is taught. If they would start teaching faggotry in schools. Half of them would close. Real catholic families will rather send their kids overseas than listen to any homo talk. I would send my kids to an ortho school if my kids were being teached fagness.

As we stand in western societies. And the violent attack on man and family. Catholic institutions are still the real last bastion against madness. Orthos are irrelevant. Also to be honest and I believe this is a fair critic. Ortho churches didn´t manage to stop communism. I don´t think they stand a chance. Both protestants and orthos don´t stand a chance against heavy infiltration. But orthos are the same. Brothers. Reconciliation would be easy. I honestly thought orthos were catholic russians before Roosh. I knew of protestants as those fucked up crazy sects. Nobody knows what they do.

The Pope is a man. With his weaknesses. I don´t think the chair is empty and all that. I think we just have someone who is not so enlightened. But he IS STILL A MAN. He has balls. Priests are still man. There´s an established hierarchy. Jesuits want wealth and conquer protestants. They don´t care about the church. They´re goal is to defeat protestantism. And accumulate wealth in the process.

Priests are single because Christ was. I think the real reason is for the Church to take all their estate when they die. But they are not fags. There used to be rumors jesuits had tunnels to nuns. And normally if a priest leaves the church it´s because he is getting married. And will have 10 kids. I had a teacher who was a priest. And when he left the church he had 12 kids. But I think some tertium gens would make sense. The church should be also open to married priests with a lower rank. The top must be totally devoted to Church. I believe Opus allows married people.

In all my time in catholic institutions I´ve never felt or saw or even heard rumors of any type of abuses. Never. I doubt there´s not more abuses in state schools than in catholic. I actually would bet it´s not even close. But the truth is just one abuse would be enough to burn the entire building. Pedophiles should be skinned alive and left to be eaten by dogs.

The problem with catholic is elitism. But believe me catholic elite families. Are the most fascist anti gay you will find in your lifetime. They make Hitler look like a choir boy. It´s almost scary. They are ruthless.

I don´t follow that much catholic politics. I know Opus Dei and Jesuits are in a cold war. Anyway after the fag comment by the Pope someone probably sent him a message. Cause I haven´t heard of that vomit again. And he has been making strong positions against gender ideology.

 

[Rational1]

Not trying to point any fingers, but I suspect this "rootlessness" is a remnant of our sinful past. It seems that the PUA days and the excessive semen loss through self-abuse and fornication during this time left many of us with some form of permanent brain damage or mental disease. I noticed this in myself too - for a long time I used to despise my own heritage and family and thought my own background "sucked". Grass always appeared greener on the other side. It's an illusion, like a Fata Morgana.

Before RVF 2.0, people used to search for exotic hookups in foreign countries. Now, many want to convert (or already have converted) to a religion like Orthodoxy that is exotic to our ancestors because they secretly desire to marry a devout slavic wife from ROCOR church, or go wife-hunting in some remote Eastern European village. Slavs may be Christians, but they are genetically and culturally different from Germanics, more mongoiloid or Asian shifted. Not as bad as taking a Buddhist Thai wife, but still...

It's basically a milder version of the same mental disease that causes European leftifts to promote "anti-racism" and "open border"-policies for their home countries. After years of unhinged sexual sinning and accompanying insanity, men suddenly find that all they really want is Love and Peace, do Yoga and convert to fancy Buddhism. Some become Anime fans who seek to race-mix with a cute girl from Asia. Other westerners say "our women are useless; Polish and Russian women are more traditional/better", convert to Orthodoxy and basically abandon their own women. Shame on us, we should stay faithful to our sisters and defend them. They belong to us no matter what - not to the muslim and African men invading our home countries! Also, it would not be fair for us to steal women from Polish and Russian men.

Now what would be the best solution to stop Europe's downfall? Sure it has to be returning to Christianity in general, but I'm not sure about Orthodoxy as it's foreign to NW Europe. Stick to your roots and take an example from the way your ancestors used to live. If all your known ancestors were Protestants, you would be a "traitor" for switching to Orthodoxy.​

You make some interesting points. In my opinion it’s easier to convert to Orthodoxy if you have familial or ancestral roots in countries that are heavily Orthodox. As much as churches preach they are for everyone, it is difficult to fit in. Note this goes for any group or organization. Would a white guy feel comfortable in a 99% black church? Same for work. I recently did a presentation to a group for work. It was an all Chinese group with a Chinese boss and only one white guy. It was obvious he felt left out, everyone else just spoke Chinese in front of him.

I’m not talking without experience either, I felt rejected at the few Orthodox Churches I visited and a few of the other visitors felt the same way. I had met a guy my age and a middle aged woman. We all ended up leaving without becoming Catechumens. I liked the Liturgy and the devoutness, but it felt more like an ethnic social club, so I just left.

 

[GoodShepherd]

Yeah it´s a problem. Protestants/jewish filth will reach all churches. It´s a matter of time. Orthos are probably left alone because they are still irrelevant.

I´m not so connected to catholic church like I was in 2000´s. So most of what I say is based in this time. Just today I had to leave my oldest kid in the sports team bus at 05:45 am. Had to wake up at 05:00. Fucking savages. My time is for my children. The rest comes after. I asked him if he wanted us to pick him up after. He said no he wanted to come back in the team bus with his friends. So sad. One day he will leave the house. Need to have more.

Anyway back then. Some of my hardcore catholic friends made jokes of protestant priests being fags all the time. There was a priest in Australia who was a raging homo. They are called inverted people. There´s no tolerance for gays. Unless it´s in jesuits circles. And it´s not a given. Jesuits are connected to arts. And were infiltrated by jews. They were the most conservative wing of the church. And they managed to break them.

Catholic church as many factions. Jesuits are the most pro gay. They´ve been heavily infiltrated by jews. But a lot of power of the catholic church is on it´s schools. And the reason we pay heavy fees is so no faggotry is taught. If they would start teaching faggotry in schools. Half of them would close. Real catholic families will rather send their kids overseas than listen to any homo talk. I would send my kids to an ortho school if my kids were being teached fagness.

As we stand in western societies. And the violent attack on man and family. Catholic institutions are still the real last bastion against madness. Orthos are irrelevant. Also to be honest and I believe this is a fair critic. Ortho churches didn´t manage to stop communism. I don´t think they stand a chance. Both protestants and orthos don´t stand a chance against heavy infiltration. But orthos are the same. Brothers. Reconciliation would be easy. I honestly thought orthos were catholic russians before Roosh. I knew of protestants as those fucked up crazy sects. Nobody knows what they do.

The Pope is a man. With his weaknesses. I don´t think the chair is empty and all that. I think we just have someone who is not so enlightened. But he IS STILL A MAN. He has balls. Priests are still man. There´s an established hierarchy. Jesuits want wealth and conquer protestants. They don´t care about the church. They´re goal is to defeat protestantism. And accumulate wealth in the process.

Priests are single because christ was. I think the real reason is for the Church to take all their estate when they die. But they are not fags. There used to be rumors jesuits had tunnels to nuns. And normally if a priest leaves the church it´s because he is getting married. And will have 10 kids. I had a teacher who was a priest. And when he left the church he had 12 kids. But I think some tertium gens would make sense. The church should be also open to married priests with a lower rank. The top must be totally devoted to Church. I believe Opus allows married people.

In all my time in catholic institutions I´ve never felt or saw or even heard rumors of any type of abuses. Never. I doubt there´s not more abuses in state schools than in catholic. I actually would bet it´s not even close. But the truth is just one abuse would be enough to burn the entire building. Pedophiles should be skinned alive and left to be eaten by dogs.

The problem with catholic is elitism. But believe me catholic elite families. Are the most fascist anti gay you will find in your lifetime. It´s almost scary. They are ruthless.

So I have no problem with the Catholic leity, nothing wrong with the people, I just disagree with how the church is set up those differences I mentioned, so my priest is actually a monk he was tonsured a monk so he isnt married and wont ever be married but there are other priests that are married and have children both are allowed. Regarding the communism thing, the church in the soviet union survived communism thats the point, theres an icon of saint Gabriel and it has him burning the flag of lenin because thats what he did in real life, the point is the church survived even during the tortures of communism they were undefeated this is a good sign. Yes I know most Catholics are not into the gay thing probably all (the leity) but the leadership on the other hand clearly not, the sanctioning of same sex couples, but I saw in Greece the bishop over there regarding the legalozation of same sex marriage said they will never marry them nor baptise their kids so when the kids grow up they can look at what their parents did was wrong. see the difference. and there are priests in the Orthodox church that fall into error but because it isnt just 1 guy in charge all the other Bishops who are equal can stand up and say "no thats not right" so there is that safety with that system, I know the Catholic leity is not happy with whats going on

 

[magoo]

Orthos don´t stand a chance. Catholics and truth be told jesuits were the forefront soldiers against communism. And managed to keep it at bay.

When I coached it was not that hard to win. I would look into the other team. See the wimpest kid. And told my team to attack that side.

Our weak side is protestantism. And it´s where the attacks will obviously be the hardest. And it´s clear as day the defenses on this side were decimated. From there comes the catholic church. Catholic church is the real prize. If it falls, your doomed. People don´t realize how things will be if the catholic church falls. It´s gone. The west as we know it will completely dissapear. An atomic bomb won´t compare to it´s devastation.

I´m doing a light reading on the separation of Caths and orthos. And it seems the reasons are not theological. But political. Soemthing about the wrong pope being chosen. There´s no real cleavages between us. As I said before Orthos are russian/eastern catholics. Or Catholics are western orthos.

There is some declaration of Ravenna. Which brought together the churches and the pope being primus inter pares. But I did a superficial reading. And other posters probably know more about this.

As civil society stands today the Catholic Church is still doing an incredible job to withstand all the fuckeduppery. But with the fall of protestantism to judaism it will be harder in the future.

I will dig into this fag shit the Jesuit spoke about. It will be like looking into a car crash. But you know he didn´t spoke Ex Cathedra. The Pope is old. But will check it. I´m not a theological catholic person. I like the catholic church. Incredible thinkers. It´s buildings are really beautiful. Inside churches there´s an incredible sense of calm. Once my throat was hurting entered a church it passed. In masses you see families. They do incredible charity work. And the priest is the man. The hierarchy is respected.

 

[magoo]

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/...eology-is-the-ugliest-danger-of-our-time.html

Pope Francis: Gender ideology is the ugliest danger of our time​

Addressing participants in the international Symposium "Man-Woman: Image of God.” Pope Francis describes so-called gender ideology as the "ugliest danger" of our time, because it cancels out all differences that make humanity unique.

By Lisa Zengarini
Pope Francis on Friday again spoke out against gender theory describing it as an “ugly ideology of our time”, because it erases all distinctions between men and women. To ceancel this difference “is to erase humanity. Man and woman, instead, exist in a fruitful ‘tension’”, he said.

He got a tap on his shoulder. I think at least african churches would go into some kind of schism if he continued to push faggotry. Jesuit obsession is protestantism.

 

[Perseus66]

I recently did a presentation to a group for work. It was an all Chinese group with a Chinese boss and only one white guy. It was obvious he felt left out, everyone else just spoke Chinese in front of him.

That's interesting. So you are Chinese yourself? A Chinese seeking to convert to Christianity is really cool, but probably also unusual.

Maybe that's why you could have trouble fitting into Orthodox churches. Have you tried Catholic or Protestant, or do you reject those branches entirely? Maybe there are Christian churches for ethnic Chinese somewhere?​

 

[Rational1]

That's interesting. So you are Chinese yourself? A Chinese seeking to convert to Christianity is really cool, but probably also unusual.

Maybe that's why you could have trouble fitting into Orthodox churches. Have you tried Catholic or Protestant, or do you reject those branches entirely? Maybe there are Christian churches for ethnic Chinese somewhere?​

No, I’m white and of a European background but I speak some Mandarin Chinese. I am ‘officially’ Catholic but I am in and out of the church and examining other forms of Christianity. There are many Chinese churches mostly Protestant denominations.

 

[Rodion]

I´m doing a light reading on the separation of Caths and orthos. And it seems the reasons are not theological. But political. Soemthing about the wrong pope being chosen. There´s no real cleavages between us. As I said before Orthos are russian/eastern catholics. Or Catholics are western orthos.

This is breathtakingly misinformed. I’m just leaving it at that.

 

[Samseau]

You are correct in theory that the truth has no geography. The issue with Orthodoxy in the US is the ethnic component. It’s extremely off putting to enter a church and be the only non Greek or non Romanian or whatever nationality exists in that church. Services are in a different language sometimes.

Certain Greek Orthodox churches especially, and I don’t mean to be facetious seem like a total joke. Guys are rolling into church wearing gold chains and driving a white Benz, the girlfriend or wife is dressed in tons of makeup. A friend of mine got married to a Greek woman and told me the priest was watching soccer games during their discussions about marriage.

Yes which is why I always recommend Antiochian Orthodox if you can find one. It's the "original" Orthodox Church, and they don't idolize language like many other Orthodox Churches tend to do because it was always converts from the beginning, they spoke Hebrew and Aramaic, then converted Greeks and Romans and built all the Churches we know today.

"They first called themselves Christians in Antioch..." Book of Acts 11.

 

[Tippy]

My understanding is not so strong but basically when Jesus set up the church he set it up with a Pope and so the Catholic church has roots stretching back to Christ that the ORTHO church does NOT.

The issues with current Pope can be avoided by joining SSPX which does not follow current Pope but still the Catholic traditions.

Then there is the issue of men with absolutely no connection to Orthodox countries following the church there. Why is a man in Birmingham going to a Greek Orthodox church? I am not an expert but it makes sense I believe if you have some links through ethnicity or geographical location but not really otherwise.

But I am still learning.

 

[analyst_green]

My understanding is not so strong but basically when Jesus set up the church he set it up with a Pope and so the Catholic church has roots stretching back to Christ that the ORTHO church does NOT.

The issues with current Pope can be avoided by joining SSPX which does not follow current Pope but still the Catholic traditions.

Then there is the issue of men with absolutely no connection to Orthodox countries following the church there. Why is a man in Birmingham going to a Greek Orthodox church? I am not an expert but it makes sense I believe if you have some links through ethnicity or geographical location but not really otherwise.

But I am still learning.

I don't understand how some of you guys can put ethnicity and nationality over God. It's baffling to me that you put your physical life over the eternal fate of your soul.

By this logic, no one would ever convert and follow Christ. Indian Hindus should just follow along with their demonic religion, and Saudi Muslims should just stick with their delusional belief system. And yet the apostles were given the gift of tongues and traveled to foreign lands to convert the pagan masses.

 

[Iacobus]

I don't understand how some of you guys can put ethnicity and nationality over God. It's baffling to me that you put your physical life over the eternal fate of your soul.

By this logic, no one would ever convert and follow Christ. Indian Hindus should just follow along with their demonic religion, and Saudi Muslims should just stick with their delusional belief system. And yet the apostles were given the gift of tongues and traveled to foreign lands to convert the pagan masses.

Yes I've been trying to make this point and it keeps flying over folks' heads. It's ludicrous and bespeaks a relativistic worldview.

 

[Cornelius V.E.]

You raise good points and I will ask my Bishop more about this. I'm pretty sure he'll disagree with your position, but, he is also 100% anti-Ecumenical.

He taught me how to dismiss ecumenism in one sentence - "What does Ecumenical even mean? It's Greek for, 'Of the Emperor.' Where is the Emperor today?" Which is the point - how can there even be a Ecumenical Patriarch without an Emperor? It's just fantasy and Ecumenism doesn't exist.

As for someone who is Orthodox yet still wants to save his family - why can't he attend Orthodox Liturgy's twice or three times a month, and go to Latin Mass once or twice a month, and simply refrain from praying with them? If this man is intent on saving or improving his home Church, to the best of his ability, what would be wrong with such an action?

You can find a lot more information and sources about this here: https://www.oodegr.com/english/oiko...Canon 45 of the Holy,, let him be defrocked.”

From the Apostolic Canons:

1. Canon 10 of the Holy Apostles: "If one who is not in communion prays together, even at home, let him be excommunicated”

2. Canon 11 of the Holy Apostles: "If one who is a priest prays together with a defrocked priest, let him too be defrocked.”

3. Canon 45 of the Holy Apostles: "A Bishop, or a Presbyter, or a Deacon that only prays together with heretics, should be excommunicated; if he has permitted them to perform anything as Clergymen, let him be defrocked.”

4. Canon 64 of the Holy Apostles: "If a Clergyman or a Layman should enter a Jewish synagogue, or pray with heretics, let him be excommunicated and defrocked.”

5. Canon 71 of the Holy Apostles: "If a Christian should bring oil to a Gentile altar, or to a Jewish synagogue during their feast-days, or light lamps, let him be excommunicated”


One major issue of going to a Roman Catholic Mass if you're Orthodox is that you're validating the activities and claims of a heretical group (ie, a group that teaches lies about God) by your presence. Heresy is evil as it's a lie, and lies come directly from Satan (again, not saying that all RCs or prots are Satanic, just that they've been misled). If an Orthodox person sees you there, he might think "Oh, it's okay to worship with the heretics." It creates grave scandal. More than this, 2000 years of God-illumined saints have UNANIMOUSLY condemned such practices. Your question would be akin to me asking, "What's wrong with me going to a strip club if I do it to keep a relationship with my brother? Obviously, I won't pay for any lap dances".

Funny enough, the Roman Catholic Church also used to condemn such practices until Vatican II. In the writings of Pope Pius XI's Mortalium Animos, it was considered akin to apostasy to pray or worship with heretics. This teaching of Pope Pius XI is considered apart of the "universal ordinary magisterium" of the RCC because it's a repeat of centuries and centuries of RC consistent teaching. It is therefore infallible according to what is defined at Vatican I. Unfortunately for the RCs, teachings on faith and morals in ecumenical councils are also infallible, as they are apart of the "extraordinary magisterium." So you have a real issue with Vatican II (and consistent papal teaching after Vatican II where popes go to mosques and pray with Muslims, etc) completely contradicting infallible teaching that came before.