Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

[GoodShepherd]

I am trying to diversify what cash I hold. I have bought some gold, some btc, some of it is in real cash in an envelope.

I have been very impressed by what the small amount of BTC I hold has done so far, I've tripled my money but it strikes me as just a game in the same way as stock market is. It only makes sense if you get out at the right time.

Time will tell, I certainly wouldn't be all in on it but I will increase the amount of money I have in it to play with.

Also, in the real mad max scenario of an EMP strike or nuclear war, your BTC is worthless. Guns and ammo will be the currency then. I have also diversified into that.

Ymmv

Now, can someone tell me why BTC went so crazy recently? Was it trump winning?

Iv also seen my tiny amount of bitcoin go up a lot, Im not an expert but I do think there is the human factor that can drive the value of Bitcoin up or down, for example the last time it spiked so much was during the lockdowns and the previous elections, it seems when people transact a lot of a lot of new people start joining or huge amounts of bitcoin are bought it could be causing these increases.

Not bitcoin related but I remember when South Africa also got a new president people were excited and the Rand went up in value, I was watching it closley before and after the election.

Although it doesnt seem like the bitcoin itself can be manipulated, the human beings can be manipulated causing them to either panic sell and be encouraged to buy, there might not be anyone trying to manipulate either it can also be that people start understanding the nature of fiat money and how much better having Bitcoin is to fiat money and then they join this way, thats one of the reasons I decided to try it out.

But I do think people with big followings can cause an influence on the human behaviour, someone shared a video here about DOGE coin and when Elon Musk tweeted the words DOGE it did have an effect of the value of DOGE.

I dont know if this is possible with Bitcoin but if a few very big influencial people and maybe certain government people decide to cause some negative panic around Bitcoin it "might" cause half of the bitcoin owners to cash out all their money, Im assuming this might drop the value of bitcoin for a season if this were to happen, but those same people who caused that panic might have dont that just so they themselves could buy millions and billions of dollars worth of bitcoin as a cheaper price and the once they buy so much it would probably increase the value to where it left off, so this kind of manipulation I think is very possible so lets keep an eye of current events for the next few months to see if this is true.

Im going to assume that once Trump if officially inaugurated bitcoin is going to go up quite a bit again or maybe even if he gets assasinated it would probably go up because these are major world events that have an influence on human behaviour

 

[chance vought]

Iv also seen my tiny amount of bitcoin go up a lot, Im not an expert but I do think there is the human factor that can drive the value of Bitcoin up or down, for example the last time it spiked so much was during the lockdowns and the previous elections, it seems when people transact a lot of a lot of new people start joining or huge amounts of bitcoin are bought it could be causing these increases.

Not bitcoin related but I remember when South Africa also got a new president people were excited and the Rand went up in value, I was watching it closley before and after the election.

Although it doesnt seem like the bitcoin itself can be manipulated, the human beings can be manipulated causing them to either panic sell and be encouraged to buy, there might not be anyone trying to manipulate either it can also be that people start understanding the nature of fiat money and how much better having Bitcoin is to fiat money and then they join this way, thats one of the reasons I decided to try it out.

But I do think people with big followings can cause an influence on the human behaviour, someone shared a video here about DOGE coin and when Elon Musk tweeted the words DOGE it did have an effect of the value of DOGE.

I dont know if this is possible with Bitcoin but if a few very big influencial people and maybe certain government people decide to cause some negative panic around Bitcoin it "might" cause half of the bitcoin owners to cash out all their money, Im assuming this might drop the value of bitcoin for a season if this were to happen, but those same people who caused that panic might have dont that just so they themselves could buy millions and billions of dollars worth of bitcoin as a cheaper price and the once they buy so much it would probably increase the value to where it left off, so this kind of manipulation I think is very possible so lets keep an eye of current events for the next few months to see if this is true.

Im going to assume that once Trump if officially inaugurated bitcoin is going to go up quite a bit again or maybe even if he gets assasinated it would probably go up because these are major world events that have an influence on human behaviour

We can attribute many things to affecting bitcoins price, after the fact. No one can predict short term valuation - that’s why traders will always end up with less bitcoin than hodlers.

It seems too easy, too simple, to just buy bitcoin and live on a bitcoin standard. To not ever think about the market, the price, elections, or fiat clown world. That’s all i needed to do to.

Bitcoin has died 477 times, and it will die a lot more I’m sure. It’s immortal. Thinking about the fiat price is the least interesting aspect of it.

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/

 

[KulturedKaveman]

ETH, Doge, etc etc is fiat jr.

Bitcoin stands alone.

What backs Bitcoin?

The same thing that backs gold.

So when I cash in my Bitcoin can I get gold? Or do I have to sell my Bitcoin to realize its value?

Fiat currency is worth what it’s worth cos the market says. True currency however… I don’t see any gold deposit backing Bitcoin. It’s only worth what it’s worth cos everyone trusts it. Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[chance vought]

So when I cash in my Bitcoin can I get gold? Or do I have to sell my Bitcoin to realize its value?

Fiat currency is worth what it’s worth cos the market says. True currency however… I don’t see any gold deposit backing Bitcoin. It’s only worth what it’s worth cos everyone trusts it. Correct me if I’m wrong.

What is backing gold?

Thinking of bitcoin in terms of “currency” is a failure of language. It is money, and much more…but let’s start with money.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

The same reason why gold has value, its a rare precious metal that doesnt corrode, it can probably last until the 2nd coming of Christ, bitcoin is the digital version of gold, yes its just numbers on a screen but not infinate numbers its finite so its also rare like gold

Ok, so Bitcoin is finite and you can’t print it. But why is it finite? And if it is finite whats stopping some government
lol from making more? It’s digital right? It’s what we in heavy industry call a speculative asset.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

What is backing gold?

Thinking of bitcoin in terms of “currency” is a failure of language. It is money, and much more…but let’s start with money.

Gold exists in meat space and can be mined

 

[chance vought]

Ok, so Bitcoin is finite and you can’t print it. But why is it finite? And if it is finite whats stopping some government
lol from making more? It’s digital right? It’s what we in heavy industry call a speculative asset.

YES. That is the critical insight. Gold is scarce, can’t be faked, can move a lot of value in a small space, and lasts forever. Properties that make it uniquely suited to being money. It is backed by the laws of nature - you will need to spend $2400 of human effort to mine 1 oz of gold.

 

[chance vought]

Gold exists in meat space and can be mined

Microsoft is one of the most valuable companies on the planet. Everything they produce is mass-less, moves at the speed of light, and does not exist in meatspace.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

YES. That is the critical insight. Gold is scarce, can’t be faked, can move a lot of value in a small space, and lasts forever. Properties that make it uniquely suited to being money. It is backed by the laws of nature - you will need to spend $2400 of human effort to mine 1 oz of gold.

So why is bitcoin finite? Why can’t some random government make more bitcoin?

 

[scorpion]

chance vought is being evasive because he's trying to sidestep the fundamental value question of Bitcoin. Gold is a rare fundamental element of the universe with unique properties that has industrial, decorative and ceremonial uses and has been recognized as money for thousands of years across every culture on the planet. It is not comparable to Bitcoin, which is a computer program that has been around for fifteen years, and which is literally useless. It serves no purpose except to allow for people to trade their Bitcoins back and forth between one another. There is nothing unique about Bitcoin's software/code, it is open source and can and has been copied. The only thing that gives Bitcoin value is the shared delusion that it is valuable. That's why you see chance vought and Blade Runner constantly posting Bitcoin propaganda and encouraging people to consume it. They are actively trying to recruit new people into the Bitcoin cult, because that's the only way to grow the value of Bitcoin - by encouraging others to see it as valuable.

 

[chance vought]

So why is bitcoin finite?

This is THE most difficult mental hurdle. I can crack the door…up to you to walk through it.

Why is gold finite? One must obey the laws of physics to mine gold - there is a cost.

Bitcoin has its own rules - you can run any version of the Bitcoin software that you want, as long as it obeys what we call consensus rules. If you don’t obey the rules, you can still use Bitcoin…but you will be on a network of 1, instead of 100,000,000. If you can convince more people to join the network with your rules, then you will have more people.

Which network is more valuable? If you and your neighbor are the only people in the world who have a telephone, it’s not very useful, it is much less valuable than if everyone in the world has a telephone.

Yes anyone can copy Bitcoin, or create another crypto, but they are on a tiny, useless network.

Anyone can copy the US dollar and make their own currency. Why don’t Zimbabwe dollars have the same value as US dollars? It is exactly the same technology! One has a track record (but not a guarantee) of being somewhat scarce ( relatively speaking). The Zimbabwe dollar has a history of being non-scarce. And the network size of the USD is far larger.

 

[chance vought]

Metcalfe’s Law
Connections possible = n(n-1)/2


2 phones have 1 possible connection
5 have 10 possible
12 have 66
1000 have 499,500
1 million have 1 trillion !!!!!

 

[scorpion]

When chance vought talks about the power of the Bitcoin network, understand that he's tacitly admitting the fact that the only thing that gives Bitcoin value is the shared delusion of the people participating in the network, aka its popularity. The technology of the network itself is actually quite primitive and has been eclipsed in every regard by newer crypto projects. If everyone suddenly decided to abandon Bitcoin and switch to Monero or Doge or Ethereum, literally nothing in the real world would change and humanity would lose zero wealth or technological progress. The USD value of those other coins would simply be bid up in the market and the power of Bitcoin's network effect would switch over.

I think a lot of people don't actually understand this fact and think there is something innately special about Bitcoin. But there isn't. Hardcore Bitcoin maxis like chance vought also like to use a lot of quasi-religious language when describing Bitcoin, or use complicated economic language when talking about its benefits. But this is basically just to obfuscate the simple but inescapable truth that Bitcoin only has value insofar as people are willing to believe it does. The value of Bitcoin is entirely faith-based.

 

[chance vought]

So, the rules of Bitcoin say there will only be 21 million. Anyone is free to run their own version, with different rules, but they will no longer be on the Bitcoin network that everyone else uses.

Bitcoin has value for the same reasons gold has value as money.

Scarcity - Bitcoin is absolutely scarce (there is a nearly infinite supply of gold, on earth, asteroids, etc., though the growth of supply is still slow)
Verification- Bitcoin is instant and free to verify its authenticity (gold is somewhat easy, but there is cost)
Transport - Bitcoin moves at the speed of light, anywhere, and inexpensively. Gold is slower and more expensive to move.
Divisibility - Bitcoin can be divided to any size necessary, without a change to the consensus rules. Gold is not as divisible (buy a baguette with gold?)

Gold was the best money for thousands of years, but failed in the 20th century. Bitcoin is orders of magnitude better in every way. It the first money engineered by man, but inextricably linked to the laws of nature.

None of this stuff is going to convince you. I hope it sparks an intellectual curiosity to look into it. If you like podcasts, I recommend listening to the “Saylor Series” on the “What is Money” podcast with Robert Breedlove. It’s 10 hours, but worth 100 hours.

 

[eradicator]

 

[PurpleUrkel]

... when will the value of bitcoin reflect its actual value of $0.

When you die. You can't take it with you, so in the interim gloat and and roll around naked in your piles of video poker "cash" that you can't get to during a winter storm electrical blackout.

The reason crypto isn't easy to understand and access is because, like all other satanic-derived jew inventions (insurance, gambling, law, taxes, finance, etc.) the more complicated They make it, the easier it is for them to scam non-JQ normies. They turn something simple (i.e. bartering... "I'll trade you this for that") into some complicated, long, drawn out process mired in fine print that confuses everyone except the creator(s) of the fine print.

Regarding another JQ scam, taxes, Steve Forbes had an idea to throw out the entire IRS code book and relegate the US tax filing system to a single flat tax post card that takes 5 minutes to fill out and mail. The post card simply asks 2 questions: 1) How much money did you start the year with? and 2) How much money do you have now?... and then states, "Okay, now subtract #1 from #2 and mail us 20% of that number." Done.

We get it, you love BTC, you love sitting at your computer for hours on end. You love how complicated it is because it makes you and your understanding of it feel special. You can't sleep at night because all you're thinking about is bitcoin and how much money you're making. However, the future of the world is not bitcoin, but death... prepare accordingly (and no, "stacking cash" cannot help you with fact that we all die penniless and alone).

 

[expectation]

We need a total shutdown on meme coins until we can figure out what is going on

 

[chance vought]

We need a total shutdown on meme coins until we can figure out what is going on

Perhaps parents should parent, instead of abdicating their responsibility to the government. Just a thought...
Less government = more parental responsibility.
Bitcoin fixes this.

 

[chance vought]

When you die. You can't take it with you,

well, you see, that isn't exactly true...I can - I can program it to do whatever I want. If I want my family to get a certain amount every year, I can do that. If I want my kids to each get a lump sum for school when they turn 18, I can do that. I have control beyond the grave, to help the people I care about, without relying on anyone else (lawyers, courts, etc.)

Everyone that I live for in this life, I can affect when it is over.

so in the interim gloat and and roll around naked in your piles of video poker "cash" that you can't get to during a winter storm electrical blackout.

I'm getting rid of my video poker cash, before the machine breaks, as fast as I can

The reason crypto isn't easy to understand and access is because, like all other satanic-derived jew inventions (insurance, gambling, law, taxes, finance, etc.) the more complicated They make it, the easier it is for them to scam non-JQ normies. They turn something simple (i.e. bartering... "I'll trade you this for that") into some complicated, long, drawn out process mired in fine print that confuses everyone except the creator(s) of the fine print.

crypto is a scam, on that we agree

Regarding another JQ scam, taxes, Steve Forbes had an idea to throw out the entire IRS code book and relegate the US tax filing system to a single flat tax post card that takes 5 minutes to fill out and mail. The post card simply asks 2 questions: 1) How much money did you start the year with? and 2) How much money do you have now?... and then states, "Okay, now subtract #1 from #2 and mail us 20% of that number." Done.

taxation is theft, on that we agree, it should be abolished altogether

We get it, you love BTC, you love sitting at your computer for hours on end. You love how complicated it is because it makes you and your understanding of it feel special. You can't sleep at night because all you're thinking about is bitcoin and how much money you're making. However, the future of the world is not bitcoin, but death... prepare accordingly (and no, "stacking cash" cannot help you with fact that we all die penniless and alone).

I have a family that still have much more life left than I do. I am going to do as much as I can in this life, to help them once I'm gone. I care far more about the life my children will have, than the one I have...yes, death is coming for all of us, and I'm preparing for it the best way I can - by making the biggest impact I can while I'm alive. I'm not participating in the banking scam, and soon I will not be stolen from again by the government.

We are all taking action in our own way, @PurpleUrkel. You've made your same point already - we know how you feel about it, you don't need to post it over and over.

Logical arguments are always welcome, and even if I've responded to them before, I still enjoy responding to those. That's why I come here. It's not to gloat or tell you how fake rich I am, its because I enjoy the journey of getting people over the highest mental hurdles I had to climb, and I get to re-live those moments when I was in the same place. Believe it or not, that is the truth. How often do I even post about the price?

Yes, I am above average intelligence, but I know I'm not the most intelligent here, and many of you are at least my equal there. I'm not trying to prove I'm smarter, because I already know I'm not. Maybe I do hang out here too much, but with so many little women in the house, I crave the intellectual discussion that few women can, or care to, have.

 

[GoodShepherd]

Ok, so Bitcoin is finite and you can’t print it. But why is it finite? And if it is finite whats stopping some government
lol from making more? It’s digital right? It’s what we in heavy industry call a speculative asset.

Its finite because there is a maximum amount of bitcoin that can ever be mined, when that number is reached thats it, a government lol cant make more because its not owned by the government or the banks so they have no means of doing that nobody does and even "if" someone did make more everyone would be able to see that its been crooked, its not just numbers on a screen its blockchain technology, there is a public ledger that shows where every single bitcoin is and who owns it there is transparency in Bitcoin and each individual controls their own bitcoin, its not like the banks where there are bank managers and governments who can freeze your accounts, for example this Satoshi character who apparently started it, he hasnt touched, commented or moved his bitcoin for many years, some people suspect he might be dead because of the innactivity, If I remember correctly his account has 1400 Bitcoins, so times that by $97,000 he has over $100 million dollars worth of Bitcoin.

Compare that to fiat currency, banks and governments are always cheating and printing money out of thin air and its just a piece of paper thats no longer backed by gold like in the past. Why bitcoin is like gold is because gold is also very rare and only small amounts can be mined at a time, I think the world has about x2 olympic sized swimming pools above ground of physical gold, they is probably quite a lot at the bottom of the oceans thats been lost due to ship wrecks, but people are still mining gold all the time its not easy, costs a lot of time and money to do it.