I strongly agree here. The arguing back and forth is tiresome.
I’m strictly looking at this thread to gain knowledge and use Bitcoin as part of a continued diversified wealth accumulation strategy.
I strongly agree here. The arguing back and forth is tiresome.
I’m strictly looking at this thread to gain knowledge and use Bitcoin as part of a continued diversified wealth accumulation strategy.
I suggested (and started) a separate BTC thread when the new forum went live, but the Mods disagreed and locked it.
There's not going to be a Bitcoin or crypto circle jerk thread here without fair criticism. If you need that sort of safe space to discuss your tokens, it can certainly be found elsewhere.
Who exactly do you think you're selling to, if not other guys looking to 10x-100x their money? Are you familiar with the definition of a zero-sum game?
Urkel brought that up long ago, I never did.
see? Or you can just go look back at his former posts.
Great argument. I guess that'll make BTC lose value and adoption.
Add this to the list of things no one ever said. It's up to 7, or 8, maybe 9 at this point. I lost count.
Based_Christian_Dude
Catholic
This thread these days 
Alright, let's get this straight, Bitcoin has clearly been co-opted at this point with legacy financial institutions committing Microsoft's embrace, extend, and extinguish with Bitcoin's ethos, pathos, and (sadly now even) logos. You can read this analogy here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
In case we all forgot, Bitcoin was suppose to be digital CASH. The base layer runs instantaneously for p2p transactions. Now, every wanker is holding it as a quasi-religious, pseudo-collateral asset in custodial accounts while hoping it enriches them all the while not addressing its flaws like no privacy, small blocks that prevent fast transactions for cheap, mining centralization, and etc. If they do address them, it's not even in Bitcoin's code, rather another third-party software. If you think about it, Bitcoin has become the ultimate controlled-opposition to CBDCs.
Contrast this to a cryptocurrency like Monero. It has no legacy gobalhomo institution fondling it, very good privacy, instantaneous transactions that are cheap, can be mined on anything in a decentralized pool, and has a community that understand what it's trying to do and actively practicing it. Some original Bitcoin folks I know are now switching to Monero and quietly dumping their Bitcoin.
See what I mean here:
Alright, let's get this straight, Bitcoin has clearly been co-opted at this point with legacy financial institutions committing Microsoft's embrace, extend, and extinguish with Bitcoin's ethos, pathos, and (sadly now even) logos. You can read this analogy here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
In case we all forgot, Bitcoin was suppose to be digital CASH. The base layer runs instantaneously for p2p transactions. Now, every wanker is holding it as a quasi-religious, pseudo-collateral asset in custodial accounts while hoping it enriches them all the while not addressing its flaws like no privacy, small blocks that prevent fast transactions for cheap, mining centralization, and etc. If they do address them, it's not even in Bitcoin's code, rather another third-party software. If you think about it, Bitcoin has become the ultimate controlled-opposition to CBDCs.
Contrast this to a cryptocurrency like Monero. It has no legacy gobalhomo institution fondling it, very good privacy, instantaneous transactions that are cheap, can be mined on anything in a decentralized pool, and has a community that understand what it's trying to do and actively practicing it. Some original Bitcoin folks I know are now switching to Monero and quietly dumping their Bitcoin.
See what I mean here:
I don't want a safe space but just thought since Donald J. Trump had two threads, that makes it easier to navigate, I would actually love going to the criticism thread to challenge my views but in a more organized way.
Judging by the BTC ETF inflows and On-chain analytics so far, probably mostly whales, Michael Saylor, Blackrock, institutions and Nation states, retail has not arrived in big numbers yet. Whether some irresponsible people decide to invest when the market is too hot, that's called the distribution phase, I don't have any control over that and it's up to them to have patience, DYOR and hold so we can hopefully support the adoption of Bitcoin in the future.
Now, I see where you're going and I remember one of your posts in the old forum about De-Fi being an absolute joke, and I get it that you think that's borderline morally inappropriate to invest in Crypto like we do. But you know, I think Crypto isn't purely a zero-sum game because it drives innovation in technology, financial inclusion, and decentralization, I live in a Country where holding USD safely is a privilege of very few people, and opening a bank account abroad is real hard and nearly impossible for some of us (Colombian passport). Even buying reasonable amounts of USD in a money exchange can be dangerous and inconvenient. I've saved my finances by holding Bitcoin cause inflation here is not like peanuts inflation in the U.S, here is well over 20% - 40%, I dare say some products and services have gone up 100% - 200% in price and wages are an absolute joke.
We also have a closeted Marxist-lenninist and best buddy of Maduro wanting to take over the printer to make Colombia Venezuela 2.0. So the risks of being in Trad-fi for me seem high. Most Colombians resort to sports betting because inflation is eating everyone's lunch, and that's worse if we're speaking about morality. Interest rates are above 12-15%. When you glorify fiat and the trad-fi economy you seem to refer about the Premium Fiat economy which is the U.S economy. But give that system to banana republics like mine and we end up exporting illegal immigrants instead of tech, goods and services. For me Bitcoin is superior to fiat in backwards Banana republics like mine and more convenient to save and store because we also have an oligopoly in the banking sector which is a joke.
I understand your criticism on how immoral it can be to try to unreasonable 10x-100x our money, but that's why I don't buy scams or memes. I just hold mostly Bitcoin and a handful of other blue chips which at least are trying to do something to change our crooked system. Whether those projects fail or not, I treat them like tech stock companies which huge upside potential. If no one buys when they go in a bear market they die, and CDBCs will be around the corner. Thanks, that's all have a great day.
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I will have to look into this before I can give a reaponse, do you HAVE to own an entire Bitcoin though?
@GoodShepherd
The amount of Bitcoin doesn’t matter, you just need enough so that 5% or 10% is enough for your loan needs. As the value of bitcoin increases relative to fiat, getting a loan on .05 or 0.1 BTC would be more feasible.
Also, the smaller, shorter term loans that would enable “living on Bitcoin” with no income don’t exist yet. Right now, if you want to live on Bitcoin, you need an income stream to pay expenses (have no cash balance except at the end of the month to pay off credit cards, which are a 0% interest one month loan)
If you want to retire solely on Bitcoin, in the next 20 years my guess is a whole coin is a minimum, (or maybe even 2). But maybe that is too conservative (but better to have too much than too little.). With nation-state adoption seemingly imminent, maybe that time frame is 10 years, or maybe the amount of Bitcoin is 0.1, it’s hard to say. $10M bitcoin would mean it takes 10% of the value of all other monetary assets (money, bonds, stocks, real estate). I think that’s very likely in the next 20 years. (Hal Finney predicted this valuation back in 2010, when Bitcoin was $0.30)
The theoretical “top” in today’s money is $40M per coin. Thats if Bitcoin takes nearly half of the monetary premium of other monetized assets. I think this is likely in 50 years, possibly in my lifetime. Keep in mind real wealth (the “world’s pie” of goods) is always increasing, so in 2024 purchasing power, maybe that is $100M, or even $1B in todays purchasing power. Fiat will probably not exist, at least not as a unit of account, when we get to this point. The fiat price is just a way to visualize how much monetary energy 1 Bitcoin will have.
Instead of Bitcoin priced in USD, everything else will just be priced in Bitcoin. This gallon of gas is 4 sats, this house is selling for 500,000 sats. This jet is selling for 4 million sats….etc.
Example: 100 years ago, only the very rich could afford air travel. 50 years ago, you had to be fairly well off, but not wealthy. Now, even people that can’t afford a house can buy tickets on cheapo-air and take the kids to Florida.
Good and services get exponentially cheaper, over time. Printing money masks that, which is why most things get more expensive. But everything is always getting cheaper on a Bitcoin standard.
The amount of Bitcoin doesn’t matter, you just need enough so that 5% or 10% is enough for your loan needs. As the value of bitcoin increases relative to fiat, getting a loan on .05 or 0.1 BTC would be more feasible.
Also, the smaller, shorter term loans that would enable “living on Bitcoin” with no income don’t exist yet. Right now, if you want to live on Bitcoin, you need an income stream to pay expenses (have no cash balance except at the end of the month to pay off credit cards, which are a 0% interest one month loan)
If you want to retire solely on Bitcoin, in the next 20 years my guess is a whole coin is a minimum, (or maybe even 2). But maybe that is too conservative (but better to have too much than too little.). With nation-state adoption seemingly imminent, maybe that time frame is 10 years, or maybe the amount of Bitcoin is 0.1, it’s hard to say. $10M bitcoin would mean it takes 10% of the value of all other monetary assets (money, bonds, stocks, real estate). I think that’s very likely in the next 20 years. (Hal Finney predicted this valuation back in 2010, when Bitcoin was $0.30)
The theoretical “top” in today’s money is $40M per coin. Thats if Bitcoin takes nearly half of the monetary premium of other monetized assets. I think this is likely in 50 years, possibly in my lifetime. Keep in mind real wealth (the “world’s pie” of goods) is always increasing, so in 2024 purchasing power, maybe that is $100M, or even $1B in todays purchasing power. Fiat will probably not exist, at least not as a unit of account, when we get to this point. The fiat price is just a way to visualize how much monetary energy 1 Bitcoin will have.
Instead of Bitcoin priced in USD, everything else will just be priced in Bitcoin. This gallon of gas is 4 sats, this house is selling for 500,000 sats. This jet is selling for 4 million sats….etc.
Example: 100 years ago, only the very rich could afford air travel. 50 years ago, you had to be fairly well off, but not wealthy. Now, even people that can’t afford a house can buy tickets on cheapo-air and take the kids to Florida.
Good and services get exponentially cheaper, over time. Printing money masks that, which is why most things get more expensive. But everything is always getting cheaper on a Bitcoin standard.
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I've addressed all of those points in this thread already, probably 3x.
Just go to Matthew Kratter's BTC university and learn something there, since none of you want to learn here.
The pain will continue until people learn. You are just a creditor to the bank….oops.
I’m laughing, as I post this
“The report suggests that financial repression mechanisms, such as banning or taxing bitcoin, might be necessary for governments aiming to maintain fiscal sustainability through permanent primary deficits.”
www.nobsbitcoin.com
“The report suggests that financial repression mechanisms, such as banning or taxing bitcoin, might be necessary for governments aiming to maintain fiscal sustainability through permanent primary deficits.”
Minneapolis FED Research Paper Finds Banning or Taxing 'Bitcoin' Can Help Maintain Permanent Budget Deficits
A new research paper from the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis suggests that governments can either tax or ban "fixed supply private-sector bubble assets that are not a claim to any real resources" to ensure the long-term viability of large and permanent budget deficits.
www.nobsbitcoin.com
To those arguing that Bitcoin isn’t money because it’s not a “peer to peer cash” or medium of exchange:
Never heard of yotta. After looking into it a bit it appears it was a fintech operation masquerading as a bank that promised customers increased returns through some sort of gambling/lottery system. Sounds absolutely ridiculous.
Investment firms are not lending MSTR money because they think it's an amazing company with a bright future, they're lending them money because it's basically a no-lose trade for them due to the nature of convertible notes on a company with a highly volatile stock price. They own an embedded call on the upside and short the stock on the downside.
A brief overview from Lazard:
Investment firms and Michael Saylor will both be fine when MSTR inevitably implodes. The ones getting screwed will be MSTR shareholders like this poor sap and BTC holders. The price action on Bitcoin will be catastrophic when MSTR is forced to liquidate its massive Bitcoin holdings to pay off its creditors, not to mention the psychological blow to the HODL nation that an MSTR/Saylor implosion would make.
I assume you're laughing because you think governments won't be able to rein in Bitcoin at this point. In that case, I would say you lack both sufficient imagination and cynicism.chance vought said:
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probably right, play stupid games, win stupid prizes...where is the SEC/OCC state regulators?
It doesn't matter WHY. The fact is they are getting ridiculously cheap loans - they are selling volatility to a market that is starving for it. I predict that MSTR could be one of the first bitcoin banks, or whatever that looks like, and one of the most valuable companies in the world.
play stupid games...
OK, another bitcoin crash! Bitcoin is dead!!!! Maybe that will be death #478???
I often come into this thread to search for info on why bitcoin just did what it did or whatever on any given day and all I find if the same guys just arguing the same points back and forward.
I can't work out if it's annoying or funny.
What do you think @SkiPro ?
I’m just a tiny voice on the ocean.
I am not trying to get more fiat, I’m trying to get rid of it as fast as possible.
I want to defund the state and endless wars, as fast as possible. If I can reach 10 people in my lifetime with that message, and each in turn reaches 10, and so on, the days of bank/government counterfeiting are over; we strip away all power from banks, and the state.
We are winning everywhere that matters. Online, the lies die faster than the state can manufacture them. They are getting desperate, with moves like creating the DGB (ministry of truth), and the FBI blatantly violating the constitution as exposed in the Twitter files.
FBI, DoJ, legacy media fabrications, democrats and republicans, and 2 assassination attempts, all against Trump. I’m thinking he might be a threat to the established parasites.
Sorry no TA here. I’m staying for the revolution.
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What's the point of the FDIC then? Why did they use "Yotta"? Greedy returns? LOL, that great fiat, as scorpion says, with centralization really paid here. JP Morgan Chase is the shadiest of the shady, but as the preferred US gov partner, you know they aren't going "under."
Keep digging deeper.You do know that the Bank of International Settlements "allows" BTC as a reserve asset as of 1 Jan 2025, don't you?
It doesn't take much to put two and two together.
I am trying to diversify what cash I hold. I have bought some gold, some btc, some of it is in real cash in an envelope.
I have been very impressed by what the small amount of BTC I hold has done so far, I've tripled my money but it strikes me as just a game in the same way as stock market is. It only makes sense if you get out at the right time.
Time will tell, I certainly wouldn't be all in on it but I will increase the amount of money I have in it to play with.
Also, in the real mad max scenario of an EMP strike or nuclear war, your BTC is worthless. Guns and ammo will be the currency then. I have also diversified into that.
Ymmv
Now, can someone tell me why BTC went so crazy recently? Was it trump winning?