Based books on raising children

[PurpleUrkel]

^ @GoodShepherd I forgot to add, we should also entertain the possible fact that perhaps it is in fact a child/teacher issue that has nothing to do with you? Maybe your children's teacher did "something" (didn't protect them from a class bully, or was unjust to them in someway) and they therefore have no desire to politely greet their "enemy" (and rightfully so)?

Young children's verbal language is "symbolic" and often does not express the true nature of their thoughts. Maybe your children, by not respectfully greeting their teacher are symbolically trying to tell you something negative about said teacher?

There's something called "The Hidden Curriculum," that is, what happenens between children during the school day that no adult sees, hears, or witnesses. Children are mostly abused by other children (who's uncles/cousins/mom's boyfriends abused them). If a teacher is ineffective at protecting her students from abusing each other it could be good cause for that child to not want say "hello" to that teacher early in the morning (when one is still tired and grumpy at the thought of even having to attend such an un-fun place)?

This is just another hypothetical possibility of what is going on. As you can see, there is no perfect answer to the parenting issue(s) you are facing. In light of this, it sounds like you're doing a really good job. Trust your gut.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

^ @GoodShepherd I forgot to add, we should also entertain the possible fact that perhaps it is in fact a child/teacher issue that has nothing to do with you? Maybe your children's teacher did "something" (didn't protect them from a class bully, or was unjust to them in someway) and they therefore have no desire to politely greet their "enemy" (and rightfully so)?

Young children's verbal language is "symbolic" and often does not express the true nature of their thoughts. Maybe your children, by not respectfully greeting their teacher are symbolically trying to tell you something negative about said teacher?

There's something called "The Hidden Curriculum," that is, what happenens between children during the school day that no adult sees, hears, or witnesses. Children are mostly abused by other children (who's uncles/cousins/mom's boyfriends abused them). If a teacher is ineffective at protecting her students from abusing each other it could be good cause for that child to not want say "hello" to that teacher early in the morning (when one is still tired and grumpy at the thought of even having to attend such an un-fun place)?

This is just another hypothetical possibility of what is going on. As you can see, there is no perfect answer to the parenting issue(s) you are facing. In light of this, it sounds like you're doing a really good job. Trust your gut.

Personally id have handled the situation with corporal punishment if my attempts to explain and correct my kids didn't take hold and there was no logical explanation from the child for their behavior.

At that point it isn't what he or she thinks about the teacher. It's about them not respecting my authority and wishes.

By that logic the child has to be able to express that to the parent. Even then you still expect your children to demonstrate courtesy to authority regardless of them being upset.

I deal one of with kids being bullied by minorities in my school with my kids not being able to do much due to the chickenshit school system not wanting to be racist. We advocate for the kids and raise all sorts of hell, but if our kids don't act right we still have to handle that behavior.

It's two separate issues.

 

[GoodShepherd]

It's difficult to say without knowing you, your children, the school, their teacher, etc. A lot of it also depends on the child's age/stage of development as well as their culture, family dynamic, economic status, geographical location (South Africa), etc.

In addition, I'm not sure I understand the problem? There are adult problems and child problems and I'm not sure what category this problem of "not saying hello to their teacher" falls under? This might be an adult problem of which the children will grow out of if you model overt respectful greetings toward their teacher while ignoring their perceived disrespectful non-greetings? There is something called negative reinforcement where we sometimes unknowingly encourage children's negative behaviour by paying attention to it. Ignoring is a powerful tactic with young children (not to be confused with The Silent Treatment which is borderline abusive). It sounds like your children are doing this in front of you, correct? If so, then it probably has more to do with the dynamic between you and your children than it does between your children and their teacher. They probably know it upsets you when they don't say hello to their teacher and for whatever reason it is their goal to upset you. Sometimes (often) young children deliberatly try to cause negative emotions in their parents (fake crying is a go-to tactic) because they feel like they're not getting enough focused attention from a parent (which is quite often true) and so for them negative attention is better than no (or not enough) attention.

What experts believe focused attention to be is a much longer conversation.

Exactly. This is a good example of the environment (geography, culture, etc.) having and effect on development and behaviour thus making it difficult for an American teacher to give a South African parent helpful parenting advice.

This self-reflection means you're a good parent. You care and love your children and this depth of affection for them will override any "mistakes" you make along the way. I've worked with lots of parents and the things they worry about with regards to their children always seem to pass yet are replaced with new worries/concerns... "My boy runs like a girl"... Kid grows into his body just fine and becomes an all-star little league pitcher, but then, "Help! Now my boy can't read at grade level and might be dyslexic!"... Boy goes on to be a straight A college student... Seen it a hundred times. Just roll with it. You're in for a bumpy ride for sure but just remember, "Sometimes you gotta' lose a battle to win a war."

They were in nursery school and every morning I drop them off and walk them to the door and teachers greets the children with a smile and a good morning, my kids look at the teacher and werent saying good morning back, thats bad manners, I corrected them verbally everyday in front of the teacher and at home, nothing changed, the day I started spanking them for not greeting their teacher the problem was solved, I dont actually care what they felt or what they were trying to achieve, they were being rude and as the parent it was my job to correct them, Im actually a little ashamed I let it slide for so long before spanking them.

 

[GoodShepherd]

^ @GoodShepherd I forgot to add, we should also entertain the possible fact that perhaps it is in fact a child/teacher issue that has nothing to do with you? Maybe your children's teacher did "something" (didn't protect them from a class bully, or was unjust to them in someway) and they therefore have no desire to politely greet their "enemy" (and rightfully so)?

Young children's verbal language is "symbolic" and often does not express the true nature of their thoughts. Maybe your children, by not respectfully greeting their teacher are symbolically trying to tell you something negative about said teacher?

There's something called "The Hidden Curriculum," that is, what happenens between children during the school day that no adult sees, hears, or witnesses. Children are mostly abused by other children (who's uncles/cousins/mom's boyfriends abused them). If a teacher is ineffective at protecting her students from abusing each other it could be good cause for that child to not want say "hello" to that teacher early in the morning (when one is still tired and grumpy at the thought of even having to attend such an un-fun place)?

This is just another hypothetical possibility of what is going on. As you can see, there is no perfect answer to the parenting issue(s) you are facing. In light of this, it sounds like you're doing a really good job. Trust your gut.

No I think they were just being rude, sure maybe they were doing it out of ignorance but after verbal warnings I expected them to comply.

There were also times in the mornings when the kids woke up and we as the parents were saying good morning to all the kids and they were not saying good morning properly but they would come and lay in our beds with us and just smaile about it, yes they were still small and still learning about manners but eventually I had to use spanking to teach them, the talking didnt work.

 

[GoodShepherd]

Personally id have handled the situation with corporal punishment if my attempts to explain and correct my kids didn't take hold and there was no logical explanation from the child for their behavior.

At that point it isn't what he or she thinks about the teacher. It's about them not respecting my authority and wishes.

By that logic the child has to be able to express that to the parent. Even then you still expect your children to demonstrate courtesy to authority regardless of them being upset.

I deal one of with kids being bullied by minorities in my school with my kids not being able to do much due to the chickenshit school system not wanting to be racist. We advocate for the kids and raise all sorts of hell, but if our kids don't act right we still have to handle that behavior.

It's two separate issues.

We dont advocate for violence but I did teach my kids not to hit other kids but I did give them the green light to use a bit of violence in self defense, we had a situation like that at nursery school where another child hit my kids and my kid hit them back, the school teacher called us to complain but I told the teacher that I supported my child defending himself because he didnt start the fight, if it was the other way around I would have punished my kid.

Not sure if you experience this but the more kids you have the less time I have as a parent to give lectures to my kids, the fastest way when needed is a quick spanking and its done and over with. I will admit Im sometimes a little slow to do this which is a problem.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

We dont advocate for violence but I did teach my kids not to hit other kids but I did give them the green light to use a bit of violence in self defense, we had a situation like that at nursery school where another child hit my kids and my kid hit them back, the school teacher called us to complain but I told the teacher that I supported my child defending himself because he didnt start the fight, if it was the other way around I would have punished my kid.

Not sure if you experience this but the more kids you have the less time I have as a parent to give lectures to my kids, the fastest way when needed is a quick spanking and its done and over with. I will admit Im sometimes a little slow to do this which is a problem.

That's exactly where I am. You have an inherent Right and Obligation to defend yourself. If they get in trouble for defending themselves and it's legitimate I'm not going to be mad.

But should deescalate whenever possible and try and remedy with teacher and avoid fights.

It's a houseful of boys here and I've got a lot of kids so they're all pretty tough. Never had an issue with anyone getting into a fight that they started.

 

[GoodShepherd]

That's exactly where I am. You have an inherent Right and Obligation to defend yourself. If they get in trouble for defending themselves and it's legitimate I'm not going to be mad.

But should deescalate whenever possible and try and remedy with teacher and avoid fights.

It's a houseful of boys here and I've got a lot of kids so they're all pretty tough. Never had an issue with anyone getting into a fight that they started.

Correct, the worst thing for a child is to be told they cant defend themselves while another kid is hitting them, self defense is very normal and important at this early age. My son who is not at the stage where he is "tough" he is meek and still behaves like a baby at times so I am happy as a parent that he actually stood up for himself, I wasnt happy with the teacher though she made him feel like he was in the wrong, shes an old lady, I never moaned at her or anything, just told her that I would speak to my son, I did mention that I think he had the right to defend himself in a situation like that. Im sure the other kid will think twice next time before hitting someone.

When we got home I told my son that what he did was the right thing even though the teacher said no, ignore her, dont hit people or start fights but if someone hits you its ok to defend yourself.

I wanted to keep a good relationship with the teacher it wasnt worth arguing over and also for the sake of my child, it really wasnt a big deal.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

They were in nursery school...

Personally id have handled the situation with corporal punishment if my attempts to explain and correct my kids didn't take hold and there was no logical explanation from the child for their behavior.

Young children (1 to 5) are not mini adults, and just because they talk, act, and dress like adults does not mean that they think like adults. If you want to positively effect a child's negative behaviour you must de-center from adult "logic" and learn to think like a child. Hitting them is not part of this long, repetitive, and time consuming process

Trying to "explain" something complex (what love is, why we don't hit people just because we're angry, how and why we greet people, etc.) in adult language to a 3 year-old is like getting into a game of wits with a chicken. This is demonstrated here when fathers get so frustrated with trying to "communicate" verbally with their young children that they result to hitting them to get their adult "message" through. We speak two different languages. Pre-operational children, though verbally precocious often do not understand verbal instructions/commands. A simple conservation of volume task can demonstrate a 3 year-old's rudimentary thinking... When you take a quart of water that is in a flat glass baking dish and pour it into a clear, tall, slim pitcher a 3 year-old will say that there is now more water when the amount of water has not changed. Why? Because pre-operational children are easily fooled by appearances. And they are just as easily fooled/confused by auditory commands as they are visual cues.

And again, we can't go around hitting adults when they don't behave the way we like. If we went around hitting people for not opening the door for old ladies or not using their turn signal we'd either be dead or in jail. So I'm not sure what kind of "lesson" you're trying to teach your children by hitting them? We are trying to prepare young children with the necessary skill sets to deal with the real world of which hitting people to resolve conflict is not a part. Hitting children is a short term "quick fix" solution to a long term problem. Hitting children teaches them fear and will not put an end to the root cause of the behavioral problem it will only teach them how to hide their behavior from you better so that next time they don't get caught.

I dont actually care what they felt or what they were trying to achieve...

Okay, well Tippy was looking for some good books on child rearing and I recommended The Hundred Languages Of Children which outlines how adults and children speak different languages which result in all kinds of uneccessary miscommunications between the two populations. But if you aren't interested in what your children think or feel then this book won't be for you.

Let the beatings commence!

 

[GoodShepherd]

Trying to "explain" something complex (what love is, why we don't hit people just because we're angry, how and why we greet people, etc.) in adult language to a 3 year-old is like getting into a game of wits with a chicken. This is demonstrated here when fathers get so frustrated with trying to "communicate" verbally with their young children that they result to hitting them to get their adult "message" through. We speak two different languages. Pre-operational children, though verbally precocious often do not understand verbal instructions/commands. A simple conservation of volume task can demonstrate a 3 year-old's rudimentary thinking... When you take a quart of water that is in a flat glass baking dish and pour it into a clear, tall, slim pitcher a 3 year-old will say that there is now more water when the amount of water has not changed. Why? Because pre-operational children are easily fooled by appearances. And they are just as easily fooled/confused by auditory commands as they are visual cues.

And again, we can't go around hitting adults when they don't behave the way we like. If we went around hitting people for not opening the door for old ladies or not using their turn signal we'd either be dead or in jail. So I'm not sure what kind of "lesson" you're trying to teach your children by hitting them? We are trying to prepare young children with the necessary skill sets to deal with the real world of which hitting people to resolve conflict is not a part. Hitting children is a short term "quick fix" solution to a long term problem. Hitting children teaches them fear and will not put an end to the root cause of the behavioral problem it will only teach them how to hide their behavior from you better so that next time they don't get caught.

Okay, well Tippy was looking for some good books on child rearing and I recommended The Hundred Languages Of Children which outlines how adults and children speak different languages which result in all kinds of uneccessary miscommunications between the two populations. But if you aren't interested in what your children think or feel then this book won't be for you.

Let the beatings commence!

They understood very well what I was asking them to do, they know how to say good morning it wasnt their first time doing this, I do spank kids because they dont understand something that absurd, I spank when they are willfuly disobedient and willfuly rude or having some kind of an attitude, as Get to Choppa explained, they disobey the parents authority, that in my books is worth a spanking with a belt.

So you dont believe in spanking at all just curious?

Adults we dont spank no, we talking about our own kids as parents, as young children.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

So you dont believe in spanking at all just curious?

It wouldn't work for me. But I don't think it is the be-all-end-all of parenting. I know plenty of kids who got spanked (myself included) who turned out just fine.

 

[SeekingTruth]

Spanking to me just seems similar to vaccinating a kid. Taking a chance you might really mess someone up (metabolically/psychologically) because of some theoretical risk that by not doing it you increase the risk of a poor outcome/death/social delinquency.
The risk/benefit ratio just isn't there.

Is spanking so you can teach your kids to "respect others"? Doesn't seem like a very respectful act to command respect.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Spanking to me just seems similar to vaccinating a kid. Taking a chance you might really mess someone up (metabolically/psychologically) because of some theoretical risk that by not doing it you increase the risk of a poor outcome/death/social delinquency.
The risk/benefit ratio just isn't there.

Is spanking so you can teach your kids to "respect others"? Doesn't seem like a very respectful act to command respect.

No spanking a kid teaches them to respect boundaries and authority when they no longer are acting in a reasonable manner after attempting other options of communication.

I understand the philosophical argument on why you shouldn't spank... I just don't think it bears fruit in a majority of situations.

Generally what I see is parents afraid to discipline their children and they think talking to them and being incredibly patient will work.

The reinforces that a child can argue their way out of trouble ultimately we there is no finality.

 

[GoodShepherd]

Spanking to me just seems similar to vaccinating a kid. Taking a chance you might really mess someone up (metabolically/psychologically) because of some theoretical risk that by not doing it you increase the risk of a poor outcome/death/social delinquency.
The risk/benefit ratio just isn't there.

Is spanking so you can teach your kids to "respect others"? Doesn't seem like a very respectful act to command respect.

Who told you that by giving a little spank you will mess a child up? Im trying to wonder where you got this idea from?

I read the exact opposite in the scriptures.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

We dont advocate for violence..

Yes you do. Hitting a child (for any reason) is the very definition of violence.

I understand the philosophical argument on why you shouldn't spank...

I don't think you do as it is not a "philosophical" issue, it is a scientific one. Hitting and "talking" to/at young children is not an effective way to communicate your wishes and expectations to them. Modeling is the strongest reinforcer of behavior in young children. Therefore, by hitting them all you are teaching them is that when you are angry at someone you should hit them.

Hitting a child scares them and teaches them to fear you. It does not correct the root cause of bad behavior, it only teaches them to hide that behavior from you so that next time they don't get caught. In addition, they will learn nothing from spanking, because unlike you, all they will be thinking of is the act of physical violence, not the verbal and philosophical "lesson" you are trying to teach them. For this reason young children often don't understand the correlation between the "crime" and the punishment because the physical punishment distracts them from the psychological/intellectual lesson you are trying to teach them. The only reason you think spanking works is because your children don't do the behavior in front of you anymore, not because they learned the lesson, but because they fear you. Fear is not a good parenting tactic. A quick fix sure, but not a lasting solution and you run a very real risk of your children growing up to not trust you because fear does not breed trust, it breeds resentment.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Yes you do. Hitting a child (for any reason) is the very definition of violence.

I don't think you do as it is not a "philosophical" issue, it is a scientific one. Hitting and "talking" to/at young children is not an effective way to communicate your wishes and expectations to them. Modeling is the strongest reinforcer of behavior in young children. Therefore, by hitting them all you are teaching them is that when you are angry at someone you should hit them.

Hitting a child scares them and teaches them to fear you. It does not correct the root cause of bad behavior, it only teaches them to hide that behavior from you so that next time they don't get caught. In addition, they will learn nothing from spanking, because unlike you, all they will be thinking of is the act of physical violence, not the verbal and philosophical "lesson" you are trying to teach them. For this reason young children often don't understand the correlation between the "crime" and the punishment because the physical punishment distracts them from the psychological/intellectual lesson you are trying to teach them. The only reason you think spanking works is because your children don't do the behavior in front of you anymore, not because they learned the lesson, but because they fear you. Fear is not a good parenting tactic. A quick fix sure, but not a lasting solution and you run a very real risk of your children growing up to not trust you because fear does not breed trust, it breeds resentment.

I'm not sure I trust your version of "the science " here.

Didn't Pavlov do some operant conditioning modeling that could be made as an argument counter to this?

 

[GoodShepherd]

Yes you do. Hitting a child (for any reason) is the very definition of violence.

I don't think you do as it is not a "philosophical" issue, it is a scientific one. Hitting and "talking" to/at young children is not an effective way to communicate your wishes and expectations to them. Modeling is the strongest reinforcer of behavior in young children. Therefore, by hitting them all you are teaching them is that when you are angry at someone you should hit them.

Hitting a child scares them and teaches them to fear you. It does not correct the root cause of bad behavior, it only teaches them to hide that behavior from you so that next time they don't get caught. In addition, they will learn nothing from spanking, because unlike you, all they will be thinking of is the act of physical violence, not the verbal and philosophical "lesson" you are trying to teach them. For this reason young children often don't understand the correlation between the "crime" and the punishment because the physical punishment distracts them from the psychological/intellectual lesson you are trying to teach them. The only reason you think spanking works is because your children don't do the behavior in front of you anymore, not because they learned the lesson, but because they fear you. Fear is not a good parenting tactic. A quick fix sure, but not a lasting solution and you run a very real risk of your children growing up to not trust you because fear does not breed trust, it breeds resentment.

Self defense isnt a bad kind of violence but a necessary one.

In the bible it says when we physically correct our children it drives the foolishness out of their hearts, we still verbally correct them and and reason with them, the hidings are not something a parents needs to do very often, its its done the right way and at the right time with all the right philosophy behind it then its a great blessing to us and the child.

God treats us the same way, we are verbally corrected but sometimes the only way we learn is through suffering but in the end its healing for our soul.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

I'm not sure I trust your version of "the science " here.

It's not my version of science (Piaget, Vygotsky, Montessori, Gerber, Rosseau, Locke, Skinner, etc.). Keep in mind I am talking about young children (ages 1 through 5). I have worked with over 100 children in this age group and their parents over a 20 year period and have seen these children grow into adults. How many 3-year-olds have you worked with? Five for a period of 12 months of which during this time their teacher spent more hours of focused attention on them and observing them than you did because of your work schedule? In addition, there are differences between 3 year-olds and 4 year-olds so by the time most parents have begun to understand what being 3 is for the child the child has already moved on to being 4. As a result, parents often report feeling one step behind in their parenting (because they are).

We look around and see all these laissez faire, woke, "peacefully" parented children that could definitely use a good ass beating and think, "Spare the rod spoil the child." But this is not the population of parents and children I'm talking about (I'm addressing healthy, loving CiK parents). I get it. You don't feel that parenting is a science. In some cases it's not because some parents are just naturally gifted at raising healthy, happy, creative human beings who can make decisions for themselves. However, most parents could use some instruction of their own.

I'm saying that hitting children doesn't make any sense and ultimately doesn't work. You disagree with that. That's fine. In civil society we don't let two men who are each 200 pounds and evenly matched hit each other, and so if you think a 200 pound man hitting a 30 pound child is okay and fair "play," then have at it.

Let the beatings commence.

In the bible it says when we physically correct our children it drives the foolishness out of their hearts, we still verbally correct them and reason with them...

The Bible says a lot of things that can easily be misinterpreted and so I'm not going to engage you on parenting instructions written 2000 years ago. You haven't really understood what I've currently written. Hitting a 3 year-old and/or trying to verbally "reason" with them is a fools errand. But if you enjoy getting into a game of wits with a chicken then be my guest.

I myself was spanked as a child and they are horrible memories that I will never forget. And I don't remember the "lesson" of the spanking, just the spanking itself and how it made me despise my parents and wish I was big enough to hit them back. Why risk burdening your child with lifelong memories of physical violence between you and them when there are more effective ways to get the results you want?

How does hitting your child make you feel? Does it make you feel good? Is it something you enjoy? If the answer is "no," then why continue doing it?

 

[FrancisK]

My father was and still is my hero. I call him multiple times a week and am so fortunate he's still here.

My father used a belt on me a couple times here and there when I was particularly bad. Probably less than 5x in my life.

I was spanked rarely, only when necessary... Generally his catchers mit hands were sufficient.. My younger brother got spanked more often because he was generally less well behaved. My mom would spank us with wooden spoons, even got hit with larger sticks when we were bad and dad was working. Then when he got home we were usually spanked again. Both my brother and I turned out very well, have great families, successful careers all of that.

We both still have amazing relationships with our parents...

Spanking is an effective tool that should be used when appropriate...but that differs by child and situation. For some it's more necessary. for others it's not. I've never had to use the belt, though it's something I would do if it merited... Just never been needed as the kids are pretty well behaved and a swat on their butt to get their attention and a stern talking to followed by time out is sufficient.... And very rarely required when I'm around. Generally my wife has more of the discipline issue when I'm not around.

There are tons of children that should probably be spanked at least 1x in their life so they can get the experience of understanding swift discipline and that there's a point where arguing and talking are no longer means to communicate. Submission and corrective action are the only remedy for really poor behavior.

Unfortunately I see a lot of Orthodox folks who do a very gentle style of parenting and children who are outright disrespectful as such. To the point where they disrupt church by the parents unwillingness to discipline their children. So don't be like that parent.

This is incredibly similar to how I was raised and I also have a great relationship with my parents as do my siblings. It wasn't necessarily to inflict pain it was more as a signaler that we had misbehaved so badly that it came down to it, it did not happen often but looking back on it now I can tell you very confidently I deserved it when it did. My mom was more frequent with the small spankings but when it was so bad that my father had to get involved, which was only a few times, yea that was when you really did something wrong and needed to straighten up. The last time I needed that reminder was middle school and I'll tell you right now it was well warranted, I was starting to head down a bad path.

One time my mom broke the wooden spoon on me and that made her even more angry haha. I still remind her of that and we laugh.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

This is incredibly similar to how I was raised and I also have a great relationship with my parents as do my siblings.

You are both very lucky to have been raised in such loving households. I would postulate that you would still have this great relationship with your parents without the spankings. The spankings aren't the reason you both turned out to be healthy men. You turned out the way you did in spite of the spankings because the love in your home consistently outweighed the anger your parents felt toward you when they spanked you. Most children aren't so lucky.

Didn't Pavlov do some operant conditioning modeling that could be made as an argument counter to this?

Yes Pavlov worked with his dog on this. Young children are not dogs, however there are some distinct similarities in effectively training the two species. I know this because I am a professional dog trainer as well and like with training a child I would never hit a dog during training. So if we don't hit dogs to train them effectively then why wouldn't we extend the same courtesy to a human child? Check out Cesar Milan's The Dog Whisperer if you want to understand how to correct a young child's negative behavior without hitting them. Cesar does not use physical violence to train dogs that are behaviorly off the rails and physically dangerous to men. If Cesar can correct a biting pit bull's deadly behavior without physical aggression then surely we as adults can get young children to say hello to their teacher without hitting them with a belt.

 

[FrancisK]

You are both very lucky to have been raised in such loving households. I would postulate that you would still have this great relationship with your parents without the spankings. The spankings aren't the reason you both turned out to be healthy men. You turned out the way you did in spite of the spankings because the love in your home consistently outweighed the anger your parents felt toward you when they spanked you. Most children aren't so lucky.

Yes Pavlov worked with his dog on this. Young children are not dogs, however there are some distinct similarities in effectively training the two species. I know this because I am a professional dog trainer as well and like with training a child I would never hit a dog during training. So if we don't hit dogs to train them effectively then why wouldn't we extend the same courtesy to a human child? Check out Cesar Milan's The Dog Whisperer if you want to understand how to correct a young child's negative behavior without hitting them. Cesar does not use physical violence to train dogs that are behaviorly off the rails and physically dangerous to men. If Cesar can correct a biting pit bull's deadly behavior without physical aggression then surely we as adults can get young children to say hello to their teacher without hitting them with a belt.

I agree it wasn't due to the spankings but the spankings were effective and didn't cause any issues, they were a beneficial tool. We don't really do "love" in my family haha, not in the mushy gushy way anyway.....