Based books on raising children

[SeekingTruth]

To those who use a belt on their children, I give a cautionary tale: My husband's father used his belt on him and his brothers. And it was very effective... for a time... Once they were big enough to outrun their father, his belt was useless and his children completely ran amuck because it was the belt they feared and not their father. And they all hate him now.

Is there a man here who was strapped by their dad who still has a healthy relationship with him? I'm just curious to know.

If anyone knows anything about psychology, it's that you've taught how to behave by fear alone. Not respect. I wouldn't have respected a parent as I aged for that. I would have seen it as pathetic that you had to overpower someone that much smaller than you.

 

[GoodShepherd]

To those who use a belt on their children, I give a cautionary tale: My husband's father used his belt on him and his brothers. And it was very effective... for a time... Once they were big enough to outrun their father, his belt was useless and his children completely ran amuck because it was the belt they feared and not their father. And they all hate him now.

Is there a man here who was strapped by their dad who still has a healthy relationship with him? I'm just curious to know.

Edit: this is an Orthodox family fyi

Just about everyone used to get spanked when they were kids in those days, from what I can see the countries that have banned spanking are producing the worst kids with the worst behaviour and attitude in the world not the other way around.

We only used to get spanked when we stepped out of line and for good reasons, there is obviously abuse thats another story, my wife was spanked out of abuse by her mother for example.

 

[GoodShepherd]

If anyone knows anything about psychology, it's that you've taught how to behave by fear alone. Not respect. I wouldn't have respected a parent as I aged for that. I would have seen it as pathetic that you had to overpower someone that much smaller than you.

One of my uncles that I respect the most was my uncle who when I did something wrong as a kid he corrected me in a loving way through spanking, I believe this was the reason we developed such a good relationship, I will never forget the day he spanked me it was the most loving thing I honestly remember that I got from him because I was a really naughty kid and I knew even as a child that it was an act of love

 

[starlight]

Just about everyone used to get spanked when they were kids in those days, from what I can see the countries that have banned spanking are producing the worst kids with the worst behaviour and attitude in the world not the other way around.

We only used to get spanked when we stepped out of line and for good reasons, there is obviously abuse thats another story, my wife was spanked out of abuse by her mother for example.

Disciplining kids isn't banned. Using a belt until they cry is.

 

[SeekingTruth]

Just about everyone used to get spanked when they were kids in those days, from what I can see the countries that have banned spanking are producing the worst kids with the worst behaviour and attitude in the world not the other way around.

We only used to get spanked when we stepped out of line and for good reasons, there is obviously abuse thats another story, my wife was spanked out of abuse by her mother for example.

Society producing "the worst kids" is multifaceted and I highly doubt is coming from a lack of spanking. I would say it's from bad parenting in general, increasing sloth, more reliance on institutions to care for us and our children, a lack of personal accountability, porn exposures, violence exposures, drugs, etc.

 

[SeekingTruth]

One of my uncles that I respect the most was my uncle who when I did something wrong as a kid he corrected me in a loving way through spanking, I believe this was the reason we developed such a good relationship, I will never forget the day he spanked me it was the most loving thing I honestly remember that I got from him because I was a really naughty kid and I knew even as a child that it was an act of love

Stockholm syndrome?

 

[starlight]

Stockholm syndrome?

Nasty thing to say. Stay on topic.

 

[SeekingTruth]

Nasty thing to say. Stay on topic.

Um, free speech?
Look up Stockholm Syndrome.
I'm sorry but getting spanked as an act of love?
This isn't a wellness event. The dude isn't telling me his problems and I'm sure he could care less what I think.

 

[starlight]

Um, free speech?
Look up Stockholm Syndrome.
I'm sorry but getting spanked as an act of love?
This isn't a wellness event. The dude isn't telling me his problems and I'm sure he could care less what I think.

I'd like to give a snarki emoji response but I really don't know what most of them mean!

 

[GoodShepherd]

Disciplining kids isn't banned. Using a belt until they cry is.

If they didnt cry after spanking them you probably didnt do it right, this is for very serious offences, a small child will cry very easily and even before getting spanked because of the shame.

 

[GoodShepherd]

Society producing "the worst kids" is multifaceted and I highly doubt is coming from a lack of spanking. I would say it's from bad parenting in general, increasing sloth, more reliance on institutions to care for us and our children, a lack of personal accountability, porn exposures, violence exposures, drugs, etc.

Look at the kids from USA, UK and Ierland for example, all place that stopped corporal punishment, worst behaved kids in schools, the countries where spanking is allowed in schools the kids behave much better.

 

[GoodShepherd]

Stockholm syndrome?

I have know idea what this means

 

[TheLearningWife]

I just got a new book called Preventing homosexuality in your children, I havent opened it yet but sounds like a pretty good parenting book for our day and age, most of the reviews are by people who havent even read the book and are giving it 1 star just because of the topics discussed, the one helpful review said that when you allow your sons to play with girls toys and dolls and play with girls clothes its not good and on how important it is to bring your boys with you to do manly things like let them help you fix a burst pipe or cut the grass, involve them in stuff like this, in this simple positive book review it made a lot of sense to me and will be reading the book very soon once Iv completed my current book.

Was this the book? Just wanted to say thanks for this recommendation. I’m about halfway through, and it’s been very eye-opening for me. Confirms patterns I’ve picked up on over the years, but lays it out in a simple way with concrete solutions and advice. A must-read for parents of boys. Helps with judging them too, because people have wounds from childhood, and on top of that it’s so incredibly easy to become ensnared in the sodomite propaganda and swallowed up these days, especially since they censor other opinions. Great info on how the science behind being born “gay” isn’t at all settled like they say it is, and how the American Psychological Association folded under pressure to remove homosexuality from the DSM in 1973, and even they admit its causes and prevention.

I found a free pdf here, but will buy physical copies from the author’s website: https://www.academia.edu/95139715/A_Parents_Guide_to_Preventing_Homosexuality

 

[GoodShepherd]

Was this the book? Just wanted to say thanks for this recommendation. I’m about halfway through, and it’s been very eye-opening for me. Confirms patterns I’ve picked up on over the years, but lays it out in a simple way with concrete solutions and advice. A must-read for parents of boys. Helps with judging them too, because people have wounds from childhood, and on top of that it’s so incredibly easy to become ensnared in the sodomite propaganda and swallowed up these days, especially since they censor other opinions. Great info on how the science behind being born “gay” isn’t at all settled like they say it is, and how the American Psychological Association folded under pressure to remove homosexuality from the DSM in 1973, and even they admit its causes and prevention.

I found a free pdf here, but will buy physical copies from the author’s website: https://www.academia.edu/95139715/A_Parents_Guide_to_Preventing_Homosexuality

Thats the book, I have it but havent started reading it yet will do so very soon, thats a pretty positive review, book sounds great

I was sold by the book title alone.

 

[starlight]

If they didnt cry after spanking them you probably didnt do it right, this is for very serious offences, a small child will cry very easily and even before getting spanked because of the shame.

Fortunately, in my nearly eighteen of years of being a parent, I have never been faced with a discipline situation where a spanking, let along a belting, was ever necessary for my four children. I'm not calling you a bad parent because I don't think you are one (corporal punishment is generally considered a negative and harmful experience for children because the majority of parents who do it use it to make up for bad/neglectful parenting). You are obviously very aware and conscious regarding your kids discipline so that's obviously not the issue here. I'm just wondering how things could get so out of control where that kind of discipline is necessary?

Look at the kids from USA, UK and Ierland for example, all place that stopped corporal punishment, worst behaved kids in schools, the countries where spanking is allowed in schools the kids behave much better.

The poor behavior in US schools (at least CA which I'm familiar with) has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of corporal punishment and everything to do with racial/woke/liberal policies, but that is a completely different topic/thread...

Edit: Regarding spanking: I really think it comes down to the child's temperament and early (baby-hood/toddler) boundaries that are set. Everything is downstream from that. But that's my own opinion.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

To those who use a belt on their children, I give a cautionary tale: My husband's father used his belt on him and his brothers. And it was very effective... for a time... Once they were big enough to outrun their father, his belt was useless and his children completely ran amuck because it was the belt they feared and not their father. And they all hate him now.

Is there a man here who was strapped by their dad who still has a healthy relationship with him? I'm just curious to know.

Edit: this is an Orthodox family fyi

My father was and still is my hero. I call him multiple times a week and am so fortunate he's still here.

My father used a belt on me a couple times here and there when I was particularly bad. Probably less than 5x in my life.

I was spanked rarely, only when necessary... Generally his catchers mit hands were sufficient.. My younger brother got spanked more often because he was generally less well behaved. My mom would spank us with wooden spoons, even got hit with larger sticks when we were bad and dad was working. Then when he got home we were usually spanked again. Both my brother and I turned out very well, have great families, successful careers all of that.

We both still have amazing relationships with our parents...

Spanking is an effective tool that should be used when appropriate...but that differs by child and situation. For some it's more necessary. for others it's not. I've never had to use the belt, though it's something I would do if it merited... Just never been needed as the kids are pretty well behaved and a swat on their butt to get their attention and a stern talking to followed by time out is sufficient.... And very rarely required when I'm around. Generally my wife has more of the discipline issue when I'm not around.

There are tons of children that should probably be spanked at least 1x in their life so they can get the experience of understanding swift discipline and that there's a point where arguing and talking are no longer means to communicate. Submission and corrective action are the only remedy for really poor behavior.

Unfortunately I see a lot of Orthodox folks who do a very gentle style of parenting and children who are outright disrespectful as such. To the point where they disrupt church by the parents unwillingness to discipline their children. So don't be like that parent.

 

[GoodShepherd]

Fortunately, in my nearly eighteen of years of being a parent, I have never been faced with a discipline situation where a spanking, let along a belting, was ever necessary for my four children. I'm not calling you a bad parent because I don't think you are one (corporal punishment is generally considered a negative and harmful experience for children because the majority of parents who do it use it to make up for bad/neglectful parenting). You are obviously very aware and conscious regarding your kids discipline so that's obviously not the issue here. I'm just wondering how things could get so out of control where that kind of discipline is necessary?

The poor behavior in US schools (at least CA which I'm familiar with) has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of corporal punishment and everything to do with racial/woke/liberal policies, but that is a completely different topic/thread...

Edit: Regarding spanking: I really think it comes down to the child's temperament and early (baby-hood/toddler) boundaries that are set. Everything is downstream from that. But that's my own opinion.

Maybe your kids are different? Iv heard from some people that the dogs in USA dont bark at people much when you walking down the street but here in SA all the dogs bark at you through the gates when you walk past their homes.

Im not calling myself a good parent either I dont know time will tell, Im probably not a good enough parent sometimes and I dont think it has anything to do with the spanking its other things.

An old boomer friend of mine when he was in school the corprol punishment back then was really strict and his teacher used to use the corner of a wooden ruler to hit the kids knuckles and he said thats thanks this teacher he was able to learn maths, this is an extreme case, when I went to school there was also coprol punishment but then after some years they stopped it in all schools.

Most of the times I will just use my hands but situations when I use a belt is for extreme cases and spank them on their butts or tops of their hands, sometimes both. For example, if we go out as a family and they were really misbehaving and were rude and disobedient then I had to tell them when we getting home they getting spanked, the ideal thing would have been to spank them in public on the spot but because South Africa is also becoming woke we have to be careful and do it behind closed doors, when I was a boy kids used to get spanked in public all the time including with belts and nobody paid much attendtion to it.

There was a time 2 of my kids refused to say good morning to their school teacher everyday when I dropped them off at school, they ignored her and just walk through the door, after weeks of me correcting them verbally they still didnt say good morning, the one day I got really mad about it and told them when they get home they gonna get spanked and I used the belt, they cried and the next day they said good morning problem solved, it had to be done, what would you have done as a parent in a situation like that?

 

[PurpleUrkel]

Young children (ages 1 to 5) are not empty vessels (tabula rasa), they "construct" their knowledge and understanding of the world via observation, exploration (play), and experimentation. You cannot force information into them, much less "spank" it into them. A good example of constructivist theory (Piaget/Vygotsky) is the fact that young children construct their understanding and use of their mother tongue without a single formal lesson in language from an adult. Adults do not "fill" young children with knowledge from the outside in, young children construct their own knowledge from the inside out. Modeling the behaviour you want from children is the most effective way to instill the behaviours and values you wish to see in them. Hitting them teaches them that physical violence is a legitimate way in which you wish them to resolve conflict.

In addition, hitting children does not teach them the truth about the world and how healthy adults do in fact resolve conflict. We don't go around hitting each other because not only is it illegal, it is an ineffective way to build consensus (the cornerstone of healthy relating and problem solving).

This being said, many children who were spanked turn out to be fine because the amount of love in the household overrode the amount violence. However, this fine line is not worth experimenting with. Best to not risk it and refrain from hitting your children.

The Hundred Languages Of Children is an excellent book on child development. Young children are not mini adults, and just because they talk, act, and dress like adults does not mean that they think like adults. If you want to positively effect a child's negative behaviour you must de-center from adult "logic" and learn to think like a child. Hitting them is not part of this long, repetitive, and time consuming process.

 

[GoodShepherd]

Young children (ages 1 to 5) are not empty vessels (tabula rasa), they "construct" their knowledge and understanding of the world via observation, exploration (play), and experimentation. You cannot force information into them, much less "spank" it into them. A good example of constructivist theory (Piaget/Vygotsky) is the fact that young children construct their understanding and use of their mother tongue without a single formal lesson in language from an adult. Adults do not "fill" young children with knowledge from the outside in, young children construct their own knowledge from the inside out. Modeling the behaviour you want from children is the most effective way to instill the behaviours and values you wish to see in them. Hitting them teaches them that physical violence is a legitimate way in which you wish them to resolve conflict.

In addition, hitting children does not teach them the truth about the world and how healthy adults do in fact resolve conflict. We don't go around hitting each other because not only is it illegal, it is an ineffective way to build consensus (the cornerstone of healthy relating and problem solving).

This being said, many children who were spanked turn out to be fine because the amount of love in the household overrode the amount violence. However, this fine line is not worth experimenting with. Best to not risk it and refrain from hitting your children.

The Hundred Languages Of Children is an excellent book on child development. Young children are not mini adults, and just because they talk, act, and dress like adults does not mean that they think like adults. If you want to positively effect a child's negative behaviour you must de-center from adult "logic" and learn to think like a child. Hitting them is not part of this long, repetitive, and time consuming process.

In the parenting situation I just described above about my kids not saying goodmorning to their school teacher, for weeks, how would you have resolved that situation?

 

[PurpleUrkel]

In the parenting situation I just described above about my kids not saying goodmorning to their school teacher, for weeks, how would you have resolved that situation?

It's difficult to say without knowing you, your children, the school, their teacher, etc. A lot of it also depends on the child's age/stage of development as well as their culture, family dynamic, economic status, geographical location (South Africa), etc.

In addition, I'm not sure I understand the problem? There are adult problems and child problems and I'm not sure what category this problem of "not saying hello to their teacher" falls under? This might be an adult problem of which the children will grow out of if you model overt respectful greetings toward their teacher while ignoring their perceived disrespectful non-greetings? There is something called negative reinforcement where we sometimes unknowingly encourage children's negative behaviour by paying attention to it. Ignoring is a powerful tactic with young children (not to be confused with The Silent Treatment which is borderline abusive). It sounds like your children are doing this in front of you, correct? If so, then it probably has more to do with the dynamic between you and your children than it does between your children and their teacher. They probably know it upsets you when they don't say hello to their teacher and for whatever reason it is their goal to upset you. Sometimes (often) young children deliberatly try to cause negative emotions in their parents (fake crying is a go-to tactic) because they feel like they're not getting enough focused attention from a parent (which is quite often true) and so for them negative attention is better than no (or not enough) attention.

What experts believe focused attention to be is a much longer conversation.

Maybe your kids are different? I've heard from some people that the dogs in USA dont bark at people much when you walking down the street but here in SA all the dogs bark at you through the gates when you walk past their homes.

Exactly. This is a good example of the environment (geography, culture, etc.) having and effect on development and behaviour thus making it difficult for an American teacher to give a South African parent helpful parenting advice.

Im not calling myself a good parent either I dont know time will tell, Im probably not a good enough parent sometimes and I dont think it has anything to do with the spanking its other things.

This self-reflection means you're a good parent. You care and love your children and this depth of affection for them will override any "mistakes" you make along the way. I've worked with lots of parents and the things they worry about with regards to their children always seem to pass yet are replaced with new worries/concerns... "My boy runs like a girl"... Kid grows into his body just fine and becomes an all-star little league pitcher, but then, "Help! Now my boy can't read at grade level and might be dyslexic!"... Boy goes on to be a straight A college student... Seen it a hundred times. Just roll with it. You're in for a bumpy ride for sure but just remember, "Sometimes you gotta' lose a battle to win a war."