Are there women who prefer men who are virgins?

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Also the world isn’t based on karma, preserving yourself isn’t gonna improve the chance of getting a chaste long term partner, technically the way to maximize those chances is through sheer numbers game.

No karma and no numbers game, both are rooted in unbelief. If God provides you with a wife then He will provide the one you need. If He provides you with a life of singleness then He will provide the life you need.

As you already know, it is much easier for a woman to get sex than it is for a man. If you, a Christian man, had sex before marriage then how much more do you think women, Christian or no, already have?

Nothing wrong with desiring chastity in your partner, just don't turn it into an idol, and don't be hypocritical in your pursuit of it.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Of course, his chances will be far greater if he also upheld that same standard for himself, but men are not "ruined for marriage" the way women are through sluttery.

While I understand what you are saying, fornication is a sin whether you are a man or a woman, and the wages of sin is death. Even if you rationalize in a nominalistic fashion that it is worse for a woman to commit the sin, you will still have to give an account for your works to God.

Nothing in life is guaranteed, and never has been, and one cannot really "expect" anything from another person, but I reject this line of thinking that because one is not perfect, or sinned, or used poor judgement, then that person can no longer desire good things or must now accept things that an earlier version of himself would not.

You can desire it. You can pursue it. You can reject it if it's not what you desire. Never argued against that.

Until about a hundred years ago, a man would not even understand the concept of holy matrimony with a woman who was not chaste.

Demonstrably false.

In other words, many of us who have chosen poorly in the past had no exposure whatsoever to the mores and norms of a sane society that encouraged Christian couples to save themselves for marriage, and instead we were exposed to free, hardcore, live, 24/7 pornography, with the implicit understanding that our government and society fully condone this. That is not to be used as an excuse for any man to have sinned, but it is a very real and logical explanation, and it is the reason that chaste men and women are so rare today. It is not because they have bad souls or bad judgement, but they live in a sick and evil society.

It is not either/or. It is both/and. We are sinful and commit sin. We will either face the wrath of God for our sin or be forgiven in Christ Jesus. There will be no passing of the buck.

 

[Blade Runner]

Throughout history everyone knew sex is best saved for the marriage bed, but while there were a number of virginity checks for women, the man's chastity, while a nice thing to have, was never checked or tested or really considered.

Yes. And nice post overall, it provided a good foundation for a more accurate view of history. I find it funny that people conveniently forget that the patriarchs of the Old Testament had multiple wives or even concubines. We call a lot of these men saints, and Abraham obviously has exalted status. At a minimum, it shows you that ethics or morals are situational. That is to say that I am not saying that I am not called to something different, I'm just providing some real, legitimate context here about what the history of men and women is and was.

If God provides you with a wife then He will provide the one you need. If He provides you with a life of singleness then He will provide the life you need.

While this is obviously impossible to disagree with it's also the lame part of the retrospectoscope common in Christian circles, with other types of sayings, such as "God will only give you what you can handle" which is a funny one because if you die it meant the "handling" part is over, and we move on, lol.

Since we don't know what will happen in our lives, it doesn't do us much good to act like what happened was ordained just because it happened to end that way. Otherwise, we could justify all sorts of things that we did as being "what we needed". What's more, we don't know if we'll be saved, though we hope for it, so it's also impossible for us to know currently if something is "for our salvation". That's why we have to go and experience the world, and yes, act in accordance with what is good and noble.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Since we don't know what will happen in our lives, it doesn't do us much good to act like what happened was ordained just because it happened to end that way. Otherwise, we could justify all sorts of things that we did as being "what we needed". What's more, we don't know if we'll be saved, though we hope for it, so it's also impossible for us to know currently if something is "for our salvation". That's why we have to go and experience the world, and yes, act in accordance with what is good and noble.

If you don't know that you're saved, then you have no way of knowing that whatever happens in your life is working towards your salvation, that is very true.

If you do know you're saved, then you can trust God when He says that "all things are working together for good for those who are called according to His purpose."
"All things" includes marriage and singleness.

 

[Seng Hock]

Hilarious, though relevant to the thread

 

[Iacobus]

Some Christians ITT seem to be really downplaying the gravity and consequences of male fornication, while it's true that societally the consequences are ultimately worse for women, let's not try to pretend that spiritually male fornication is NBD. All testimony from Scripture and the Fathers is to the contrary. I personally have known multiple men who have had their souls devastated by fornication and who despair of their ability to properly pair bond again.

 

[Wutang]

All testimony from Scripture and the Fathers is to the contrary.

The divide I'm noticing in the thread seems to be between people subscribing to the secular red pill side when it comes to this issue and those who are more spiritually minded and relying on Scripture or partistic teaching. As we know a lot of red pill ideology has evopsych as a basis which is interesting considering evopsych s a super materialistic "fleshy" idea where "winning" is simply about being able to spread your genes the farthest by any means - carnal or not.

Can you imagine the scene where the prophet Nathan confronts King David for his murder and adultery and David responds that as a high status alpha male he was just doing the best for his kingdom by spreading his value genes with the most beautiful women and that is simply what is natural and healthy for society?

 

[Blade Runner]

If you do know you're saved

The problem is that you don't, and if you think you are (whatever that word means to you), you're delusional. Please tell me how you acquired the mind of God and please tell me what the Lord says to you, shows you, asks you on judgment day. It makes judgment day a truly silly formality, since you already know, right Godfather? Godfather meets Christ when he dies and they both smile and telepathically the message comes ... this is just for the other people, remember? LOL

The simpleton nature of that idea is so silly, it's preposterous. Understanding that things can be used for your salvation has nothing to do with some sort of destiny where you know what will happen, or more pointedly (the point of this topic on the thread) that you shouldn't go and do things in life, rather God will just plop the girl in front of you, without any effort on your part.

Can you imagine the scene where the prophet Nathan confronts King David for his murder and adultery and David responds that as a high status alpha male he was just doing the best for his kingdom by spreading his value genes with the most beautiful women and that is simply what is natural and healthy for society?

No one is arguing any of this on the other side, and no one has. Your analogy is weirdly connecting David's murder and adultery with someone seeking a wife in a land where there are ... wives. It's sorta like when Christ told the disciples to dust their shoes off and move on if people won't accept the teachings. The idea is don't bang your head against the wall of mindless people. Newsflash, most of the developed world at this point is mindless, propagandized people in a material society. But we're the "materialist" red pill guys for desiring some qualities in a woman that make marriage somewhat sensible. OK, got it.

 

[Wutang]

No one is arguing any of this on the other side, and no one has. Your analogy is weirdly connecting David's murder and adultery with someone seeking a wife in a land where there are ... wives. It's sorta like when Christ told the disciples to dust their shoes off and move on if people won't accept the teachings. The idea is don't bang your head against the wall of mindless people. Newsflash, most of the developed world at this point is mindless, propagandized people in a material society. But we're the "materialist" red pill guys for desiring some qualities in a woman that make marriage somewhat sensible. OK, got it.

What patristic or scriptural reasoning are you giving for why you deserve a young virgin wife because you are over 6 feet tall and make a good amount of money? I noticed that both in this forum and the previous one you basically said that society is sick cause you and guys with those traits can't get a wife in the current society. I'm not even saying that's wrong but at least admit you are basing your reasoning on purely material considerations. The qualities you desire from a woman the exact sort of qualities people in the previous forum would talk about all the time pre Roosh conversion.

 

[Theosis]

No karma and no numbers game, both are rooted in unbelief. If God provides you with a wife then He will provide the one you need. If He provides you with a life of singleness then He will provide the life you need.

“If God provides you with a fruitful life, he will provide the one you need, but if he provides you with abject poverty and despair, you just have to accept that he will be providing the life you need.”

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

God also provided man with reason and the ability to change his life and alter his environment, things that are within the locus of his control.

Getting married or finding a wife are not things that are ‘unchangeable’ or where ‘you just have to accept God’s will’ like a terminal illness or a genetic defect like blindness.

So saying you have to accept God’s will with things you have the ability to change and improve is just a total cop out and laziness.

 

[Blade Runner]

What patristic or scriptural reasoning are you giving for why you deserve a young virgin wife because you are over 6 feet tall and make a good amount of money? I noticed that both in this forum and the previous one you basically said that society is sick cause you and guys with those traits can't get a wife in the current society. I'm not even saying that's wrong but at least admit you are basing your reasoning on purely material considerations. The qualities you desire from a woman the exact sort of qualities people in the previous forum would talk about all the time pre Roosh conversion.

I never said I deserve anything. Many of us can get a wife, that's not the problem. It's like having kids, that's not the point, the point is to have them in a suitable setting where they can be high quality to boot.

My point, in general (since I make many), is that one can be in the upper echelon of several categories (I'm talking 1-5%, or 95%ile whatever) but either that doesn't matter, or there aren't many women who want marriage that have value, or both. That's all. That's why I talk about other places, because I think the only solution to the situation is basically young women, since they are the basically only demographic that men value for marriage.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

The problem is that you don't, and if you think you are (whatever that word means to you), you're delusional. Please tell me how you acquired the mind of God and please tell me what the Lord says to you, shows you, asks you on judgment day. It makes judgment day a truly silly formality, since you already know, right Godfather? Godfather meets Christ when he dies and they both smile and telepathically the message comes ... this is just for the other people, remember? LOL

The simpleton nature of that idea is so silly, it's preposterous. Understanding that things can be used for your salvation has nothing to do with some sort of destiny where you know what will happen, or more pointedly (the point of this topic on the thread) that you shouldn't go and do things in life, rather God will just plop the girl in front of you, without any effort on your part.

I'm going to resist the temptation to turn this into a debate on assurance of salvation. All I will say here is that the Apostles make it clear in their letters that you can know you're saved. If your theological system precludes that, then that is a topic for another thread.

You will be putting in effort regardless of God's Providence, and you will be judged on the disposition of your heart. If you pursue this sinfully, or if you pursue this in a Godly manner, you will be held to account either way.

But whether you are given a life of singleness, or the wife of your dreams, "in all things give thanks for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." I am encouraging you to be content with God's plan for you, regardless of how it plays out.

 

[Blade Runner]

I am encouraging you to be content with God's plan for you, regardless of how it plays out.

I understand. As an optimistic person who realizes the world isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be (our wishes are of course largely ego driven, but they are typically extensions of what is "good" so that's the balance we all look for), I am fine with whatever may happen. Quite clearly, and there is no denying this, we control only a few things in life: our thoughts to some degree, our actions, and that includes our responses.

The thread or this topic is more about trying to get guys that think like you (on this topic) to let go of the fatalism of life. Our life is one of synergy with God, or rebellion against him, or the back and forth. That's all we're talking about.

 

[Rax Moscow]

Demonstrably false.

Can you elaborate on this Christian history of marrying non-virginal women?
Never heard of such.

 

[Rax Moscow]

What patristic or scriptural reasoning are you giving for why you deserve a young virgin wife because you are over 6 feet tall and make a good amount of money? I noticed that both in this forum and the previous one you basically said that society is sick cause you and guys with those traits can't get a wife in the current society. I'm not even saying that's wrong but at least admit you are basing your reasoning on purely material considerations. The qualities you desire from a woman the exact sort of qualities people in the previous forum would talk about all the time pre Roosh conversion.

This is classic strawmanning, and is not allowed on the forum.

No one is making the false argument here that this poster has refuted.

One can ask questions in an attempt to understand the rationale and point another is trying to make, but there is no place for this type of personal accusation or exaggerated claim.

No man deserves a wife at all. Certainly not a wife with certain characteristics or features. But no one made this claim, so it seems unnecessary to state.

On the other hand, men not being able to find suitable wives IS indeed a sign of a sick society. That's true whether the women just aren't interested in families, as in Korea, or whether a man is no longer needed for physical or economic reasons, as in the west. It is a universal sign among all life forms; when they are not reproducing and active, there is a fundamental problem in their environment or their colony.

If we could stick to the Socratic method of asking questions of each other, we will arrive at the truth whereas setting up inflammatory words or false targets created to be rhetorically attacked, will not.

 

[Blade Runner]

On the other hand, men not being able to find suitable wives IS indeed a sign of a sick society. That's true whether the women just aren't interested in families, as in Korea, or whether a man is no longer needed for physical or economic reasons, as in the west. It is a universal sign among all life forms; when they are not reproducing and active, there is a fundamental problem in their environment or their colony.

The problem with their approach is that they don't even attempt to be honest about the reasons why people seek friends and companions and stick with those friends or companions. Newsflash - it's because we have particular traits or common interests that link us.

I used to say at the old forum, and likely here too, that none of the older guys (including the forum leader) who said God will somehow magically give me a wife if I do x,y,z were scurrying to marry up a woman that desired marriage but was old and not in good shape (I called them hambeasts). God sent those women to those men, didn't he? Assuredly they are around in droves and looking to be married (see how fun this is?). I made the statement ridiculous to prove the point, which is that in this day and age, you can't go anywhere without noticing fat people, and old chubby or fat women especially that are single and act all shocked that men (especially successful ones) aren't interested in them. I wonder why that is, guys?

By the way, the equivalent would be a man telling a woman or a dad telling his daughter that she shouldn't worry about what the man does, how hard of a worker he is, if he has money and a future or career path forward to support them, etc. That's obviously retarded and exactly NO ONE does that.

I don't hang out with bums for a reason, or many reasons. Are all bums bad? No. Are some bums going to be saved? Probably, I don't know. Would I tell my family, friends or kids to hang out with bums?

You know the answer. So let's stop with this whole feminist ideation that character, discipline and appearance don't matter, only some bleeding heart feel good stuff does. What I've found in life is that the people who tell you that don't practice any of that in their lives, which is not only proof, it's lame.

 

[magoo]

Woman want a man who can provide for her. Because they are weak. A virgin can be a good provider. But he must be a virgin by choice. Not because he is a retard without any social skills. There are available good woman. But most man want a squared circle. A fun and intelectual woman. At the same time a devout homestay mom. Not gonna happen. sorry. A woman is your companion. But never forget her nature. Because they are weak they need other instruments to survive.

There´s plenty of good natured woman. You just have to look for them in the right place. Don´t expect to find one in a club. If you engage in a conservative group. Parents will throw their daughters at you. If you are honest. Worker and good hearted. A woman will tell if your smart or not by indirect cues. They shit on your arguments. If I want my wife to know something. I will never tell her directly. I use someone she knows as an example and ridicule that example. She will almost make a look "ohhh that´s what man think about that". If I don´t want her to wear something. I will not tell her. Someone will dress like she wanted. And I will say what a whore. Shameless whore.

She will know I understand everything that´s happening in a room. The flirts, etc. I know more than her.

Woman are survivers. Never forget this.

 

[Blade Runner]

If you engage in a conservative group. Parents will throw their daughters at you.

It could be that I'm orthodox, or that I was in a particular region of the US less suited, but that happened to me (or something at least similar to it) - once. That might have been my mistake in life, but the draw wasn't an offer I couldn't refuse ... so generally I'm skeptical when people say this. I have this take because I know for a fact how rare certain traits, physical qualities and otherwise, and successful guaranteed careers are. That led me to believe that it's more the culture and seriousness of marriage that's the problem (I don't doubt that I didn't pay mind or notice a lot of available 5s). Note that even if a parent "throws a daughter" at you, it still doesn't mean she cares or will show interest, since odds are in the US, spoiling and men being necessary, rather than just later add on accessories, doesn't make them a priority.

I'm skeptical of married people's opinion on the board, not because they don't know a lot, but because they so frequently dismiss people and have fake positivism. Hope and cope are built in when men don't control the scenario or society anymore, so it's not like we'd even get men to admit it at this point - even around here it's rare to hear the truth unless the guy's already been divorced.

If you really want me to self analyze, and I can only speak for myself, on this it's that I don't even see many 6.5s or better, let alone younger ones at this point. I don't care about the model looks, because that's obvious in this day and age that it comes with exactly no other good quality (by and large). In other countries, and of course it depends on the one in question, there are thousands of 6s and 7s walking around, which are in much higher quantities because in those places age gaps are possible. That's just the reality of things.

 

[magoo]

It could be that I'm orthodox, or that I was in a particular region of the US less suited, but that happened to me (or something at least similar to it) - once. That might have been my mistake in life, but the draw wasn't an offer I couldn't refuse ... so generally I'm skeptical when people say this. I have this take because I know for a fact how rare certain traits, physical qualities and otherwise, and successful guaranteed careers are. That led me to believe that it's more the culture and seriousness of marriage that's the problem. Note that even if a parent "throws a daughter" at you, it still doesn't mean she cares or will show interest, since odds are in the US, spoiling and men being necessary, rather than just later add on accessories, doesn't make them a priority.

I'm skeptical of married people's opinion on the board, not because they don't know a lot, but because they so frequently dismiss people and have fake positivism. Hope and cope are built in when men don't control the scenario or society anymore, so it's not like we'd even get men to admit it at this point - even around here it's rare to hear the truth unless the guy's already been divorced.

If you really want me to self analyze, and I can only speak for myself, on this it's that I don't even see many 6.5s or better, let alone younger ones at this point. I don't care about the model looks, because that's obvious in this day and age that it comes with exactly no other good quality (by and large). In other countries, and of course it depends on the one in question, there are thousands of 6s and 7s walking around, which are in much higher quantities because in those places age gaps are possible. That's just the reality of things.

I have a friend from pio X. He is around 40 and will marry next year with a girl 15-20 year younger. Some people on this forum would look liberal near him. He is hardcore Christian. No tv, no internet, etc.

Unless you have children. All of them will be bad. Not one will be enough. You will never be satisfied.

 

[Blade Runner]

Unless you have children. All of them will be bad. Not one will be enough. You will never be satisfied.

I agree with this actually, the but is that it has to be somewhere in the ballpark of reasonable and as Sam Hyde's advice (which was real and good) suggested, you should just know if this is the girl. It shouldn't be a question. I don't think a lot of people find that these days, just sayin'