Shaquilleoatmeal
Protestant
So how would a man go about finding a virgin? Particularly one age 18+ since society will go berserk over a lower age.
Are there women who prefer men who are virgins?
- Thread starter Cynllo
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The same way you'd find any woman. Go to places where they gather, talk to them, see if you get along with any of them. Have fun. Women are the same at any age.
This is a very important point, and is borne out also in them not being very good at determining if a guy is actually worth something behind peacocking, debt, dress, confidence, etc. Those are the suggested tactics by PUA for a reason ...
I agree with you. I'm in an 7 year age gap relationship (yeah, I know - not married so living in sin) and it's probably around the minimum for really healthy male-female polarity. A few years ago I dated a Ukrainian who was 14 years younger. Honestly, I found it unbearable, constantly on the phone looking at TikTok etc. She was hot, but I ended up really disliking her for being a moron (which she wasn't, just a product of her zero attention span generation). Experiences may vary!
And, it depends on how young the girl is. A 20 year age gap between a 40 year old woman and a 60 year old man is obviously very different to a 20 year age gap between a 20 year old women and a 40 year old man.
Try getting to know some of the leaders/elders at church. If you are a God-fearing man with good work ethic, they will see your character and point out eligible young ladies from the congregation that might be a good match.
Look for/create opportunities for small talk with said lady(s) during church functions or social events, see if you have common interests, etc.
It's really dependent on the status of both parties. Mostly, that's because women in the 35+ crowd are old maids, but they still can't imagine that their only option is really 50+, and those guys already know how much women are to deal with, and/or have families or other baggage (aren't clean, single men). A 40 year old man can be in good shape and have a lot going for him. A 40 year old woman can't really be, and thus she's irrelevant and so is the age of her partner, whatever it may be. Age gaps are only problematic for those that don't see the big picture of things in life, or emotional complaints about women who didn't seek marriage at early ages, for whatever reason.
I'm always curious about this, if it's a regional protestant thing or just that I tend to think there aren't that many attractive "eligible, young" women around. I also think it's the red pill in me and the obviousness of my consideration of marriage, which others don't - and thus why I talk about overseas and other cultures. You wouldn't believe the number (and it's not crazy high, but has happened multiple times) of women that were suggested, and it included all sorts of 30s and even divorced women with kids, which showed me that the culture is clueless, or people who are old and married just don't think about much in life because life just happened to them back in the day (regarding social and marriage stuff). I actually don't have a problem with doing it at this point, but I always want to ask them, why would I consider marriage with a woman who isn't young(er)? I think this is part of the feminization of society mentality of the modern age, which is that they never stop to ask themselves, what is in it for the man in question?
I would guess it's a regional thing/ church specific because after attending a couple of different churches in the south (and one in the PNW) for a few months at a time each, there were always older married gentleman pointing out the eligible young ladies. No one was suggesting older or "used goods" type scenarios. It was very traditional and just kind of expected that the man would be the same age or a few years older than the woman.
In my experience the issue was more how the current culture has such a negative effect on modern women even within the church (Baptist). So even though there were lots of young, single women, at least 50-75% were just not ever an option because of things like excessive (anti)-social media use and just plain being bad motherhood material. Maybe those things could be worked through but it just never seemed worth it. Much better to start with positive traits or at least find more of a blank slate, rather than having so many problems to deal with right off.
Here you get closer to my point. It's not that there aren't any at all, it's that as you increase your value (which of course goes along with aging) you realize the chasm gets further and further from a "worth it" point of view (ROI). That happens because they leave their high value window behind but also are doing the same thing that you are, which is moving around, experiencing, and working. Obviously, none of that matters to a man. I don't seem to know very many Roman Catholics that had any particular success either, and they had far more numbers and at least some guilt in keeping to their own, with many city events for their youth/young adult organizations, but they seemingly report the same general lack of ability to connect.
Being Orthodox, it was more about what city I was in, and since I was from the north, and only think the slavic girls were particularly attractive of all the ethnicities (very few of these in the US though), it was super slim pickin' since there weren't any girls trying to get married or any such thing from 19-23. I saw some that hit 24 and ballooned after being 8s, too. If I'm really honest, the orthodox ethnicities in general also did well in America, and the immigrants had children or grandchildren that were more princess-y, which made for a type of woman fits this paradigm of generally not doing anything that their mothers or grandmothers did.
I think a part of it is a type of inflation of men, along with the hoe-flation, because to be quite honest, above average became just OK, and top 10% or top 5% as a man just became "good" - but not good enough to make a girl lock him down in her value years, but rather try to keep looking and losing value. I've said in other places, and am sad to report it, but after 32 in the US if you didn't meet anyone your social structures and the dislocation or atomization that is part of this culture crushes you; and one can argue that 32-35 is literally the highest value time a guy might be in.
I've had older men and priests even that mean well, but offered up mid 30s all the way to divorcees with kids to me, an unmarried man with many things going for him. If I didn't think they were just totally ignorant, I'd feel more insulted since it's so ridiculous - but it shows you that total lack of awareness the generations have. I honestly don't think they ever thought for a second why they got married, the more I think about it. It just happened to them. And now because they are old, they can't see that there might be many reasons why a guy wouldn't want to get married. It's as if the same society they seem crumbling and getting more bizarre by the year doesn't tip them off that women aren't the same as they ever were, either. Honestly, the only conclusion is that these people just don't think. I think what I mean here, if I'm more accurate, is that they are like women in that if it doesn't directly involve them or is in their sphere it just doesn't occur to them, at all.
I've obviously got a lot of thoughts on this but I believe the culture is so far gone, and so few are honest or even understand it, it's almost useless to even consider. Geo maxxing, something I talked about with another forum member today, will probably take off big time in the next 5-10 years, if there are no real restrictions. Or a small number of more wealthy and able men will absolutely do this. There are going to be so many single people of all types, and so many rabid old women it's going to be a real shit show if there isn't a big die off during the next 15-20.
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Shaquilleoatmeal
Protestant
So women are just as likely to be virgins in their 30s as at 18-19?
I think he's just referring to their nonsense mentality on most things.
The one thing that's the worst about women is that since they are uncompetitive about everything in life BUT men, older women will almost never try to direct younger women to do the right thing, or not fall for the traps that hurt them in their lives. That's why it is funny when you see these pro women business groups and other such things, they are all about grifting and lying, usually through funding from other/outside organizations too, lol
Shaquilleoatmeal
Protestant
I think a different point is ignored.
Virginity is far FAR more important for women than it is for men. Christians are bitter and turn their nose up at this. But it’s a fact that a man can go out and commit extreme sexual sins for years and as long as he hasn’t picked up an STD, he hasn’t defiled himself in the same way a 15 year old girl has when she loses her virginity.
women need to be taught from a young age that the world is slanted against them in this regard
Women are whores if they sleep around, men are not.
Yes, virginity has a very high value, but women by and large aren't taught this so you cannot fault them for being careless with it. Women being slutty is not the same thing as whoring, whores have notch counts in the hundreds or thousands, by comparison most women will never sleep with more than twenty men in a lifetime.
Yes, but we know the data of even 3-5 men over a short window isn't pretty.
That's exactly what "group theory" and "pawning" played on back in the old school Mystery Method PUA stuff. Preselection is extremely powerful and having the approval of either other attractive people or from people she trusts/respects is definitely one of the way that a lack of looks/height/etc. can be overcome with.
You are not promised a virgin wife. If you did not keep yourself for marriage then you're really out of touch if you expect that your wife did too. A virgin wife is ideal but is not guaranteed. If you're batting for 1.0 then watch that you don't strike out.
Shaquilleoatmeal
Protestant
I don’t think men care about “virgin wives”, just that she wasn’t with anyone else befire him. In fact a large of amount of men would rather just “verify” it themselves and then marry later. Obviously this kind of strategy won’t allow all men to be the only man to be with their wife but the sexual marketplace is competitive so it’s sort of “every man for himself.”
Also the world isn’t based on karma, preserving yourself isn’t gonna improve the chance of getting a chaste long term partner, technically the way to maximize those chances is through sheer numbers game.
With some posters there is this holdover of magical "Do this and God will grant you that" which I've talked about ad nauseum in the past, and is absurd. Men from the old world, and even men in the new, broke or break this "rule" all the time.
It's amazing that everyone knows that if you go to a different country, your prospects immediately change. As if God put some magical incantation over that other land, where also scumbag men reign ... hmmm
Honestly most of us would be willing to settle for a woman who perhaps had a couple of boyfriends and is repentant. That's doable. Expecting to marry a virgin if you've been living in sexual sin for years is unrealistic.
And it goes without saying this "strategy" you suggest is just going to hurt you more and contribute to further damaging women.
I think there is something to be said about taking action, as long as it comes from a place of surrender and outcome independence. And we can only do that by putting our full faith and trust in Him, which includes letting go of our lust.
Nothing in life is guaranteed, and never has been, and one cannot really "expect" anything from another person, but I reject this line of thinking that because one is not perfect, or sinned, or used poor judgement, then that person can no longer desire good things or must now accept things that an earlier version of himself would not. Does a former alcoholic deserve a drug free wife? Is a tattooed man condemned to only choose from tatted and pierced women? Does a man who curses deserve only a foul mouthed bride? Why should any man be condemned to marrying a divorcee or fornicator simply because he sinned?
Throughout history everyone knew sex is best saved for the marriage bed, but while there were a number of virginity checks for women, the man's chastity, while a nice thing to have, was never checked or tested or really considered.
Until about a hundred years ago, a man would not even understand the concept of holy matrimony with a woman who was not chaste. They would have trouble understanding you if you proposed you would do such a thing. So for some, marriage is still, by definition, when a man takes his bride on her wedding night.
Now, in today's society one must make compromises to find such a wife, but it's very possible if you look outside your own culture. It's a matter of priorities and how important that is to you.
There is a root of truth in the line of thinking defense attorneys sometimes use to get lighter sentences for their criminal clients by talking about their poor upbringing in poverty, and lack of good family role models. That is to say that the societal conditions that normally should have shaped a man in certain ways, were lacking, and that not all the blame lies within the man himself.
In other words, many of us who have chosen poorly in the past had no exposure whatsoever to the mores and norms of a sane society that encouraged Christian couples to save themselves for marriage, and instead we were exposed to free, hardcore, live, 24/7 pornography, with the implicit understanding that our government and society fully condone this. That is not to be used as an excuse for any man to have sinned, but it is a very real and logical explanation, and it is the reason that chaste men and women are so rare today. It is not because they have bad souls or bad judgement, but they live in a sick and evil society.
Hundreds of years ago, the majority of men did not even marry and procreate, but those who did should always have the choice of upholding standards, as long as he is a good and honest and godfearing man himself. If a man chooses to marry today, he should not be limited to only other fornicators, particularly as the sin of fornication damages a woman vastly more than a man. Of course, his chances will be far greater if he also upheld that same standard for himself, but men are not "ruined for marriage" the way women are through sluttery.