2025 Bible Study Group

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Genesis 50

Joseph, his brothers, and an Egyptian cohort bury Israel in Abraham's tomb. After this, the brothers feared that Joseph would seek revenge against them. But Joseph is a true believer in God's sovereignty. First, he tells his brothers, "Don't be afraid. Am I in God's place?" That is to say that it is not his place to judge but he gives it up to God.

In the words of the Apostle Paul:

Romans 12:19: Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written: “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says the Lord.” 20 On the contrary, “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink. For in so doing, you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

In Joseph's life, there was an external conflict and an internal conflict, and they overlapped with each other. The external conflict being the famine in Egypt. The internal conflict being the forgiveness to his brothers. For both conflicts, Joseph is victorious through faith in God's sovereignty.

Then Joseph says this, which is one of my favorite verses in the Bible:

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.

You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. Whenever you see the evil of men, you may trust that even still, God is working all things together for good for His chosen ones, to those who are called according to His purpose. The most evil thing that Man has ever done was crucify the Lord of Glory, and yet, what Man meant for evil, God meant for good, in order to bring about this present result: to save a people for Himself.

Before you were in Christ, your sin did nothing to derail God's plan, but He has the sovereignty even over your sin and used your sin to bring an end to yourself so that you would have nowhere else to go but to seek for life in Him. What you meant for evil, God meant for good. And even now being in Christ, your sin still cannot curtail God's greater purpose for you, but it has been thoroughly defeated at the cross, and is now only a hollow reminder of who you used to be before you were saved by the Lord Jesus Christ. So boast in your weaknesses so that the power of God may overfill your lack.

Joseph dies and is entombed in Egypt but he gives a final prophecy: that the sons of Israel will leave Egypt and carry his bones back to the promised land. Genesis begins with God's Creation, followed by Man's Corruption, but ends with His People's Redemption. It is a sort of microcosm of the entire Bible. Creation was good, but evidently not perfect, since Corruption can corrode the Creation. However, Redemption can destroy the works of Corruption, and there is no force more powerful than the Redemption of God.

Hopefully, @Bizet will return before we dive into Romans.

 

[Gazza]

Many thanks to everyone that has supported and contributed to this thread thus far, it’s been edifying beyond all of my hopes. There has been times where I have wanted to chime in a bit more to the thread myself but I’ve been battling a few issues of late so it’s great knowing that I can glean off you guys for some much needed wisdom and support. Really looking forward to Romans!

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Some closing thoughts on Genesis:
I believe that the Scripture is it's own greatest interpreter. That is to say that when Jesus and Paul directly cite Genesis, we ought to understand Genesis in the same way that they did and not Genesis only, but the whole Old Testament. And they chiefly understood it as literal history that pointed to spiritual realities. Paul is not afraid to use typological arguments using imagery in Genesis, but he does not wander into so many vain imaginations as some of the early church fathers, such as Origen with his endless allegorical interpretation, routinely do. Paul's typology is far more conservative and with warrant even from the original text. On top of that, his letters are divinely inspired.

For Genesis, I was chiefly influenced by John Calvin's commentary, though not a slave to it. I am not shy about using other sources. For Romans, I will chiefly rely on Charles Hodge's commentary, he was a Presbyterian minister. A good commentary can underscore things that could otherwise go in one ear and out the other.

There is a lot that takes place between Genesis and Romans, but I believe that Romans is strong enough on it's own merits to fill in the gaps. The Bible is not a systematic theology, but Romans may as well be considered the Bible's own system.

I also wanted to share more of Hebrews 11 to round off the rest of Genesis:

20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, even regarding things to come.

21 By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and WORSHIPED, leaning ON THE TOP OF HIS STAFF.

Jacob was leaning on his staff, relying on the wisdom of God when he prophesied.

22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gave commands concerning his bones.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Romans 1

v4: Paul says that Jesus was 'designated' or 'made' the Son of God, according to the Holy Spirit, by the resurrection of the dead.

Paul does not mean to say that Jesus became the Son of God in an ontological sense, for He has always existed as the Son of God. The Arians would use verses like these to argue that Jesus became the Son of God, and thus, was not truly God. But Paul says this in a forensic or declarative sense: that Jesus was formally declared by the Father to be the Son of God by virtue of His resurrection. The resurrection is the proof that Jesus is exactly who He claimed to be.

Paul uses this forensic language in other places such as 2 Corinthians 5:21:

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When he says that "He became sin," he is not saying Jesus ontologically became sin, but was formally recognized by God as sin on our behalf. Paul will later employ this forensic language in Romans when he speaks of Justification.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS WILL LIVE BY FAITH.”

To Paul, one cannot speak of righteousness without speaking of faith and vice versa. These two concepts are inseparable. Righteousness is not an empty term that anyone can fill in for themselves what it means, but to be righteous is to be faithful. And faith is not an empty term that anyone can define for themselves, but faith has an object, and that object is the True God. To be righteous is to have faith in Jesus Christ and to have faith in Jesus Christ is to be righteous. There is no other way. The Christian life is defined by faith in Jesus Christ from start to finish, from faith to faith. The defining characteristic of the righteous man is faith in Jesus Christ. Not whatever works anyone judges to be good according to their own standard. That is what it means that the righteous shall live by faith. And this saving faith is powerful and efficacious to save both Jew and non-Jew alike.

Many people spend their whole lives searching for a "Heart of Gold" but never find it. They do not know that they can have it today, they can be righteous today. They need only place their faith in Jesus and in Him alone.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Romans 1

The second half of Romans 1, Paul speaks of Man's total depravity. It is an inescapable section of Scripture for me, since it answers so many errors that people assume about the truth.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Man's problem is not that he hasnt heard the truth. It's that he's evil and suppresses the truth in unrighteousness. He knows, but does not want to know. The wrath of God comes on account of this.

19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, both His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Man is neither ignorant or innocent before God. He has no excuse for unbelief. I heard Mel Gibson teaching the doctrine of Invincible Ignorance to Joe Rogan. How anyone can believe such a fantasy when Romans 1 exists is beyond me. God has given all the evidence one needs. The entire creation is the handiwork of it's Creator, and it's covered in His fingerprints.

21 For even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the likeness of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

In his idolatry, Man has been knocked so far down the totem pole that he worships the creation. But God's intention was that Man should be head of the creation.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed bforever. Amen.

Because Man did not respond to God in faith, God gave him over to a strong delusion. In this delusion, Man performs many works and acts of worship towards his idols of fancy. Sin is not only something that warrants God's Wrath, but being left on our own so that we can carry out our sin is a punishment in itself. Like Adam, mankind has traded in the truth for a lie.

26 For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions; for their females exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the males abandoned the natural function of the female and burned in their desire toward one another, males with males committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

Sin is so pernicious that it can even destroy Man's ability to procreate. When homosexuals carry out the homosexual act, they are receiving the due penalty for their unnatural desire already. They see it as a blessing, but it is a curse from God.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to an unfit mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29having been filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, violent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32and although they know the righteous requirement of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

This is where the language of reprobation comes from. God gives people over to a reprobate mind. Reprobation is not a special state that Man has to jump through hoops to get to, but it is his natural state ever since the Fall. It is truly hopeless. Only through the Holy Spirit can Man be saved from this futility and become whole again. Do not give sin a pass. Do not approve someone in their sin but love them by saving them from their sin.

 

[Gazza]

While reading Romans 2 yesterday morning I had one of those breakthrough moments. I must have sat there dwelling on these 3 words for a good 20 minutes (kindness, tolerance and patience). All I could think about was how kind, tolerant and patient a lot of people close to me are, and how I can be the total opposite towards them. It really helped me to reset my thinking and when I further read on in verse 6 it encouraged me to not just be a reader of Gods word but also a “doer”. When it was first suggested to go from the book of Genesis to Romans I was kind of scratching my head wondering why? But now I kind of get it. We’ve gone from everything that God created, His glory, His ways, His instructions and how man continues to fail in his own feeble attempts to please Him, to this absolutele masterpiece detailing the simplicity of how to please Him? Praise His Holy name for ever and ever.

 

[Gazza]

The photos I posted above are from the MacArthur study bible. I accidentally put them in the wrong order (upside down).

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Romans 2

1 Therefore you are without excuse, O man, everyone who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

None of us escape Paul's indictment of Man in Romans 1. We are all hypocrites. The next time you want to raise your voice and hold someone to your legalistic standard, know that you are condemning yourself. You want everyone else to act so perfect and yet you yourself are so imperfect. Put down the sword lest God should put you to the sword.

4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

It was not God's Law that caused our repentance, but God's Grace. Since God has dealt with you so gracefully, extend this grace to others. Remember how often you have put the Lord to the test; to exercise His patience, kindness, and tolerance towards you. Be of His same disposition, tempting others to repentance.

5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Those who are unrepentant are not getting away with it. They presume on God's kindness. They are running up a tab and God will assuredly collect.

12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law.

When Paul refers to the Law, he is referring to the Mosaic Covenant in particular. But whether someone was a son of the Covenant or not, God still holds them accountable. Paul will revisit this theme in Romans 5.

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Paul wants to make it known that to be a Jew is to be God's Covenant People, and that this identity is not an external identity by virtue of circumcision, but an internal identity by virtue of faith. By faith, you have become a son of the Covenant. By unfaith, the outward Jews have broken the Covenant. To be a Christian is to be a True Jew. Here and elsewhere, Paul makes a contrast between the Spirit and the Letter. The Spirit refers to the New Covenant. The Letter refers to the Mosaic Covenant.

In Romans 1, Paul condemns the Gentile world. A Jew would have agreed with everything that he said. But in Romans 2, Paul turns around and condemns the Jewish world as well. He condemns all men to level them, so that both kinds of men, Jew and Gentile, may be saved according to the one way of salvation: Faith in Jesus Christ. For there is no partiality with God.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Romans 2

Since we are here, I want to put my cards on the table and say that I am utterly convinced of what's known as the Republication of the Covenant of Works. What does that mean? It means that the Mosaic Covenant was a republication of the Adamic Covenant. Both covenants are conditional, they hinge on Man's obedience to the Law.

Notice how for Paul, both Jews and Gentiles are condemned. One is judged by the Law, the other perishes without the Law. How can this be? Did the Law not save the Jews? No, the Law does not save men but condemns them, since men all break it. If someone would keep the Law, then they wouldn't even need to be saved. But that no one kept the Law is evident. Only Christ kept the Law and never displeased God.

That Man broke the Law and is under God's curse, we already saw in Genesis 3. So the Gentiles, by default, remain under the curse of the Adamic Covenant. So the question becomes by the end of Genesis: "Will Israel succeed where Adam failed?" Then the entire Old Testament goes on to show you that they did not, but "Like Adam, they have transgressed the Covenant." Before Moses could even come down from the mountain, having received the word of the covenant, the Israelites had already given into idolatry.

So if the Adamic and Mosaic Covenants do not save, both Jews and Gentiles need a better covenant, enacted on better promises, with a better mediator. For Adam was a lousy mediator, who merited hell for himself and all his posterity. Moses was pretty good, but for our purposes, pretty good isn't good enough. That we so deserve hell underscores all the more our need for Jesus, who saves all His people as the perfect Mediator. Christ is the True Adam and the True Israel, succeeding where they both failed.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Romans 3

1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? 2Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3What then? If some did not believe, does their unbelief abolish the faithfulness of God? 4May it never be! Rather, let God be true and every man a liar

Despite not being saved by the Mosaic Covenant, the Jews were still highly honored to have received the prophets of God. They already have the Word, they just do not have the faith to believe in it. Whereas the Gentiles have neither the Word or the faith but must be given both. It is not enough for us to imagine about the Father, but we must know the Father through the Son, that is the Word of God, and yet, we cannot even hear the Word without the Holy Spirit, the Breath of God animating us to do so.

5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is the God who inflicts wrath unrighteous? (I am speaking in human terms.) 6 May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world?

The Apostle is fully aware of how his paradoxical message can sound to the untrained ear. You see the necessity of God's righteousness to be displayed, He must judge the world. Wouldn't this make our sin good since it gives God's Wrath the occasion to judge evil and show His justice? Paul says no. God's Wrath is good to judge because sin is evil, don't get those mixed up. Paul revisits this theme in Romans 9.

9 What then? Are we better? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10as it is written, “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; 11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; 12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME WORTHLESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”

Paul cites the Psalms. There is no God-seeker among men. Not even one. Not unless the Father should draw some of them to the Son. And those whom the Father does draw, the Son has promised to raise up on the last day.

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are in the Law, so that every mouth may be shut and all the world may become accountable to God; 20because by the works of the Law NO FLESH WILL BE JUSTIFIED IN HIS SIGHT, for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

The Law for the Jews, and the Natural Law for all men, have shut everyone up, removing their excuses, and proved them all to be guilty before God.

It is a common belief today that as long as someone is "good enough" they'll be alright. As long as people do what's good according to their own conscience then they needn't fear the wrath of God. In short, men do not want to believe in hell and they especially do not want to believe that they deserve hell. And because they do not leave room for hell, they thus cannot even believe that they need to be saved. So they craft for themselves their own versions of heaven, their own ideas of utopia. But these utopias end up resembling hell more than they do heaven. Like the Babelites, they say "Let us build for ourselves a city and make a name for ourselves." They love the man-made city and hate the God-made city.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Romans 3

After reiterating that Jews and Gentiles have been condemned by the Law in the first half of the chapter, Paul turns to the means of their salvation in the second half. It is very dense and packed with too much content for our medium here, so I will give it a briefer treatment, hoping to do it justice.

The Law proves that men are evil, since their works fall short of the Law. They cannot become righteous through works. So how can men become righteous? Through faith.

Since the Law commands faith in God. Can faith not be described as a work? Men can turn faith into a work, but in doing so, they are already faithless. To this end, Paul establishes this contradistinction in Romans 9:31-32: That the Jews did not attain righteousness because they pursued it by the Law, by works, but did not receive it by faith, as a gift. In other words, righteousness is something that is given, not merited.

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith, for a demonstration of His righteousness,

Let this thought never escape your conscience, that Justification is a gift that God payed for with the blood of His Son and gave it to you free of charge. Your work could never afford this. Christ is the propitation, the sacrifice that satisfies God's Wrath, for you who believe.

because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26for the demonstration of His righteousness at the present time,

Paul is not saying that God wantonly excused sins before Jesus; which would defeat his own argument, negate the necessity of the cross, and would be demonstrably false from the Old Testament. He is saying that even the former forgiveness was afforded by the present redemption, the righteousness of God displayed at the cross. Salvation has always been through faith in Christ, from Genesis through Revelation. Paul will launch into this in Romans 4, and he is corroborated by Hebrews 11.

so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

This is the great mystery of man's salvation: God is both Just and the Justifier. How can God forgive sin and still be called Just? How can He punish sin and still be called the Justifier? It is a paradox. Only through the cross does God's righteousness against sin kiss His mercy for sinners.

 

[Gazza]

Romans 3


Despite not being saved by the Mosaic Covenant, the Jews were still highly honored to have received the prophets of God. They already have the Word, they just do not have the faith to believe in it. Whereas the Gentiles have neither the Word or the faith but must be given both. It is not enough for us to imagine about the Father, but we must know the Father through the Son, that is the Word of God, and yet, we cannot even hear the Word without the Holy Spirit, the Breath of God animating us to do so.


The Apostle is fully aware of how his paradoxical message can sound to the untrained ear. You see the necessity of God's righteousness to be displayed, He must judge the world. Wouldn't this make our sin good since it gives God's Wrath the occasion to judge evil and show His justice? Paul says no. God's Wrath is good to judge because sin is evil, don't get those mixed up. Paul revisits this theme in Romans 9.


Paul cites the Psalms. There is no God-seeker among men. Not even one. Not unless the Father should draw some of them to the Son. And those whom the Father does draw, the Son has promised to raise up on the last day.


The Law for the Jews, and the Natural Law for all men, have shut everyone up, removing their excuses, and proved them all to be guilty before God.

It is a common belief today that as long as someone is "good enough" they'll be alright. As long as people do what's good according to their own conscience then they needn't fear the wrath of God. In short, men do not want to believe in hell and they especially do not want to believe that they deserve hell. And because they do not leave room for hell, they thus cannot even believe that they need to be saved. So they craft for themselves their own versions of heaven, their own ideas of utopia. But these utopias end up resembling hell more than they do heaven. Like the Babelites, they say "Let us build for ourselves a city and make a name for ourselves." They love the man-made city and hate the God-made city.

Spot on. Good people don’t make it to heaven, believers do.

 

[Kiwi]

Spot on. Good people don’t make it to heaven, believers do.

Jesus said "Nobody is good but God alone". Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19. So if God alone is good, how can you enter Heaven by being good?


I just clicked on this thread before and i'm amazed that you guys are talking about Romans 2. I recently had a dream where I said to someone "You judge, so you are condemned!" I woke up and remembered it was from The Bible. These things happen now and then so i'm aware not to dismiss it. This is Romans 2 and what Paul is talking about!

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Romans 4

1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?

You might've seen the trope of a scientist making a discovery and exclaiming, "Eureka!" Same word here. Abraham discovered Justification by Faith, that is the great Eureka.

2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about—but not before God!

This shows that Paul is not speaking of Justification in the same sense that James does in James 2, when he says that a man is not justified by faith alone. Paul is primarily concerned with the God's-eye view of Justification.

3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS COUNTED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”

Righteousness is a matter of credit, not debit. God credited, imputed, formally recognized Abraham as righteous on account of faith. That is the doctrine of Imputed Righteousness. Faith in Christ can cover your nakedness from God. So wear the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not counted according to grace, but according to what is due.

When you put in your 40+ hours at work, you will receive your paycheck. Your employer is not doing you a favor when they pay you. It is not a grace. They owe you that check by law. You deserve that check. The paycheck that God owes us is hell since that is what our works deserve. So we do not want God to deal with us according to what we deserve.

5 But to the one who does not work, but believes upon Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Since we are ungodly, we want God to deal with us according to what we need. Justification came when you were still ungodly, to now declare you godly. At this verse, even the Orthodox Study Bible says "Only through faith can the ungodly be justified." So do not be ashamed of the doctrine of Justification by Faith Alone.

6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 “BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. 8 BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.”

There is forgiveness for sins yet committed. Forgiveness for future sin. God will not hold your sin against you if you are the blessed man. There are many who reject this. To them, there is no blessed man. They restrict God's forgiveness to past and present sins, ignoring that all of our sins were yet future to the crucified Christ, and He is able to forgive them all. Their fear is that it gives us a license to sin, which is a fair concern. But they need more faith to see that God does not give the blessed man a license to sin, but that He gives him the Spirit to bring an end to all of his sin.

10 How then was it counted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be counted to them,

Abraham was justified by faith even before he was circumcised. The circumcision was an external symbol that pointed back to an internal reality. If Baptism is the new circumcision, then keep this in mind. It also shows that one need not be circumcised, need not become a Jew, to be justified by faith.

14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith has been made empty and the promise has been abolished;

If the Jews and the Judaizers are correct, that one must become a Jew to be saved, then they do not believe in God's promise. Whenever he speaks of the promise, he is referring to God's promise to Abraham, that through Abraham's seed, that is Christ, all the nations, not just the Jews, would be blessed. Abraham is the father of many nations, not just the Jews.

15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no trespass.

People are naturally under the Law. Their trespass is counted to them. But if you are under Grace, you are no longer under the Law, and there is no trespass counted to you.

16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the seed, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all—

Paul is an incredibly faithful theologian. He does not even consider to grant that there are good works outside of God's Law that God would find acceptable among the Gentiles. One of his primary concerns in keeping Justification by Faith is that the Gentiles too would be able to be saved, since there is not even a Law available for them to keep.

17 as it is written, “A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU”—in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.

God's power in converting the heart is likened to His power to create. Just as God created the cosmos from nothing, He is able to create your faith from nothing, but speaks it into existence. Post Tenebras Lux. After Darkness, Light. It hearkens back to the "souls Abraham created" by evangelizing his servants. Redemption is related to Creation.

21 and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to do. 22Therefore IT WAS ALSO COUNTED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 23Now not for his sake only was it written THAT IT WAS COUNTED TO HIM, 24but for our sake also, to whom it will be counted, as those who believe upon Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

Abraham was fully assured, utterly convinced that whatever God promises, He is able to do. Let us have that kind of faith. Abraham is our paradigm, we are saved in the same way as he was, Justification by Faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Samseau]

The interpretation of Romans here is mostly wrong. Faith without works is dead (James 2:14), and, as such, anyone without works shall not enter the Kingdom since it is by faith one is saved.

If you aren't doing works, then you don't have faith. Hence one must do works to be saved. The works will be insufficient, but that's not the point, the point is that you have faith enough to do them, like the beggar woman who donated her only coin to the Temple.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

@Samseau How do you understand Romans 4:5?

 

[Samseau]

@Samseau How do you understand Romans 4:5?

Like St. Augustine:

"God makes the ungodly man godly, in order that he might persevere in this godliness and righteousness. For a man is justified in order that he might be just, not so that he might think it is all right to go on sinning."

Without good works (i.e. we go on sinning), then we are not just, and are not Godly. The Godly man is saved and becomes just, but is not being faithful unless one is just.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

"God makes the ungodly man godly, in order that he might persevere in this godliness and righteousness. For a man is justified in order that he might be just, not so that he might think it is all right to go on sinning."

Isn't that what I said in my post? So how is my interpretation wrong if I agree with St. Augustine? Which man are you Samseau, verse 4 or 5? Are you the one working, expecting to receive your due wage from God? Or are you the one not working, but believing in God, knowing that He will count your faith as righteousness?

My point is that you needn't pit James 2 against Romans 4. They are both true when applied in their proper sense.

 

[Samseau]

Isn't that what I said in my post? So how is my interpretation wrong if I agree with St. Augustine? Which man are you Samseau, verse 4 or 5? Are you the one working, expecting to receive your due wage from God? Or are you the one not working, but believing in God, knowing that He will count your faith as righteousness?

My point is that you needn't pit James 2 against Romans 4. They are both true when applied in their proper sense.

I am neither, just like the Church fathers. It's a false dichotomy. One must have faith, and one must do works or else your faith isn't sincere.

 

[JCSteel]

Romans 4:18-21 strike me as verses that show what kind faith is acceptable to God; it is something active and hopeful that honors Him.

Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

In verses 4:22-25 Paul says that's the nature of the faith which justified Abraham and it will justify us when we believe on Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.