Older Men, Younger Women

[It_Is_My_Time]

You think that amount might be enough to last you now as a single man until you retire, wait until you have a wife and kids all that money will go very fast I dont think its a good idea to retire before you even get married, your wife and family are going to need a lot of stuff keep those millions for emergencies they will come in very handy.

True, yes. When I say "retire" I more so mean financial security. Work is more of a choice, if you are in a bad situation you can leave without waiting for the next job. Work part time would be preferable just to have time with your family you can never get back. If you are under 70, you have to do something to keep you active. But this activity will be far different than being a wage slave in fear of the next round of layoffs, so you are more than happy to work on Saturdays, Sundays or late nights to keep the bottom-line watchers happy.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Women under 25 are incredibly childish, almost like a 16 year old girl. But they're hot and more fun to be around. Women over 25 can be bitter, but much less chaotic. But they will still be childish at times.

Women are usually a pain in the butt either way. Just find the least annoying one in her 20s.

As a man, I don't see the appeal of looking for a woman to play chess with and wax poetic about philosophy or business management. That's what your fellas are for. I love the playful nature of women.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

As a man, I don't see the appeal of looking for a woman to play chess with and wax poetic about philosophy or business management. That's what your fellas are for. I love the playful nature of women.

I like that playful nature too. I'm talking more about the annoying things of being childish. Expecting us to read their minds, saying no when they mean yes, pouting, etc.

It's not always a huge deal, but gets irritating at times. Unfortunately almost all women are like this.

 

[SeekingTruth]

It is? We need a thread on this.

Catholic church is. Honestly was under the impression Orthodox wasn't different.
It is an Orthodox forum, so if I'm wrong, I take that back about forum consensus.

 

[Samseau]

Catholic church is. Honestly was under the impression Orthodox wasn't different.
It is an Orthodox forum, so if I'm wrong, I take that back about forum consensus.

It depends on what we mean by IVF and how it is used.

The AI generated answer is actually pretty good:

Orthodox IVF Views​

Orthodox Christians have varying views on In Vitro Fertilization (IVF), with some restrictions and guidelines provided by the Church. The Orthodox Church in America explicitly forbids the use of surrogates and the sale of eggs or sperm, and it teaches that "full personhood" begins at conception, which raises ethical concerns about the creation and disposal of embryos.123+4

The Russian Orthodox Church has initiated discussions to consider updating its stance on IVF, taking into account the development of medical science over the past 20 years. The Church encourages couples to perceive childlessness as a special vocation in life if therapeutic and surgical methods of treatment do not allow them to avoid infertility.3

According to the Greek Orthodox position, while the desire to have children is natural and sacred, the Church sets certain reservations regarding the use of IVF and Assisted Reproductive Technologies (ART). It permits intrauterine insemination using the husband's sperm but is against IVF, sperm and egg donation, embryo donation, and surrogacy.78

In summary, while the Orthodox Church does not outright forbid IVF, it imposes strict conditions and reservations on its use, emphasizing the sanctity of life and family values.

 

[intro]

Oh well. For what it’s worth I know some Russians who did it. Maybe they’re just lukewarm believers, but they got a good family out of it.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

I am in my late 40's and I have women 20 years younger than me hitting on me a lot.

I guess I have to go to your region, as I don't experience much of this, but admittedly I'm not out and about a ton, which is a problem of course.

I know guys in their 50's getting women in their 20's and they are not super rich or being take advantage of. Women naturally want a man, and most men their own age, especially in this society, are not mature enough to interest them. Also, the older guys offer confidence, financial stability, a relaxed no pressure atmosphere, and a go with the flow feeling that women all crave.

This all makes sense, but I don't see it much in the real world.

I'm starting to see some of what IIMT is talking about here in the southeast US and I agree with some of his reasoning on the subject. Just today I had a very pretty mid 20's blonde white girl with no tats voluntarily without solicitation offer me her phone number. I was actually quite surprised as I don't recall that ever happening before in my 50+ years of life (not even when I myself was in my 20's). I've always had to ask girls for their phone numbers. There's also been some other more subtle 20-something year old girls kind of flirting with me as of late too. Strange (but welcome). I think they're picking up on the fact that I've completely checked out of paying attention to women and maybe this makes me more interesting to them (or something like that)? But I think the main thing is that they are really impressed with my business and are some of my most loyal customers and as a result the business has given me some form of social status and regional mini-fame. The business also puts me in natural, unforced contact with lots of college girls weekly and so I think the numbers game is starting to pay off (similar to making lots of cold approaches in the PUA days). So yeah, "getting out there" and putting yourself in a natural position of physical proximity to lots of 20-something year old women seems to be one of the keys. It was inadvertent, but starting a great retail business in close proximity to 3 major universities seems to have actually been a great move in terms of meeting young women who may be open to wide age gaps. The overton window may also be slightly shifting too when you have very public young beautiful white women like Karoline Leavitt (age 27) marrying and procreating with a man 32 years her senior, thus modeling to young American women that age gaps are not necessarily "creepy," and can in fact be loving, peaceful, stable, and mature.

 

[Australia Sucks]

But I think the main thing is that they are really impressed with my business and are some of my most loyal customers and as a result the business has given me some form of social status and regional mini-fame.

Do not underestimate the value of situational status. It matters a lot.

 

[Steady Hands]

Additionally, IVF is anti-Christian as it's tied to abortion/fetal loss. This is a Christian forum. That's not supported here. And yes, the mother's age is ALWAYS an argument.

Yep. Compared to natural, spontaneous conception, IVF is associated with an increased risk of problems such as fetal abnormalities, due to:

(a) inherent issues with the IVF process,
(b) the tendency for older women, especially those with underlying infertility issues, to use IVF; and to a lesser but significant extent,
(c) the tendency for older men, including those with underlying infertility issues, to use IVF.

Studies of Assisted Reproduction

Increased risk of various negative outcomes reported across most studies tend to vary from 1% to 50%, with some studies showing 100% - 200% greater risk for rarer conditions. Example studies are quoted below.

• A systematic review and meta-analysis found an odds ratio (OR) of 1.15 (95% CI: 1.07-1.24)* for congenital malformations in IVF-conceived infants compared to naturally conceived ones https://jivfww.scholasticahq.com/article/91039-assessing-the-relationship-between-traditional-in-vitro-fertilization-and-birth-defects-a-systematic-review-and-meta-analysis&quot

*Note. An odds ratio (OR) of 1.15 means the exposure being studied is associated with 15% higher odds of the outcome occurring compared to the reference group.

• Studies suggest that IVF-conceived babies have a slightly higher risk, with estimates indicating an increase of about 1%. Some reports suggest a 30-40% higher risk of major birth defects after ART (Assisted Reproductive Technology), which includes IVF. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8679367/

• IVF-conceived babies have a birth defect rate of about 5-6%, compared to approximately 4% for spontaneously conceived babies https://www.varta.org.au/sites/default/files/2020-12/Possible health effects of IVF.pdf

• A study analyzing 1.2 million births found an 18% higher risk of birth defects among IVF babies and a 36% overall greater risk for ICSI (Intracytoplasmic Sperm Injection) births
  

  The risk of birth defects with conception by ART - PubMed

  N/A.

  pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Influence of Parental Characteristics

Note that fathers are not exempt

The increased risk of birth defects after IVF may relate to parental characteristics such as age or cause of infertility rather than the laboratory handling of sperm, eggs, and embryos. If difficulty conceiving is caused by a genetic or chromosomal disorder, the baby may be affected by the same disorder.

For example, about three per cent of men with severe defects of sperm production and low or zero sperm counts are missing parts of the Y chromosome, where genes responsible for sperm production are located. Men with so called ‘Y chromosome microdeletion’ may become fathers with the aid of ICSI but their sons will have the same genetic problem and therefore in all likelihood will be infertile.

Also, in men with unexplained severe male infertility, chromosomal imbalances are much more common than in men with a normal sperm count. In these cases, a chromosomal test (karyotype) is performed. If a problem is found, genetic counselling is offered to inform the couple about the chance of success with ART, potential risks to the offspring, and the possibility of using embryo screening to only transfer unaffected embryos. https://www.varta.org.au/sites/default/files/2020-12/Possible health effects of IVF.pdf

Implications

This research has some implications in relation to the broader topic of this thread. These implications are also informed by my wider knowledge and personal experience (older father, in my 40's, wife in her 20's).

- Younger women are objectively more desirable, not just based on physical appearance or a lack of emotional baggage, but also due to their better health and fertility

- Older women (30 - 35+) are more likely to seek IVF, are less capable of carrying a healthy pregnancy to full term naturally, and when they do give birth, their children are more likely to have medical complications: https://academic.oup.com/humupd/article-abstract/11/3/261/759255?redirectedFrom=fulltext. Many women are not up to speed with these medical realities: https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2012/may/making-decisions-about-fertility

- Although the age of women is a stronger factor in determining the viability of pregnancy compared to age of men, older men (35 - 45+) are still likely to have more issues pre-conception due to degraded sperm quality, DNA damage, etc, and to have more problems with their children's health** https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-n...rs-associated-with-increased-birth-risks.html

** Caveats. This doesnt touch on the challenges for older parents once the baby arrives - e.g., lower energy, more health issues, etc. Developing wealth over time does improve quality of life, increases social status, and makes men more attractive. However it's not an elixir to solve all problems associated with aging, large age gaps, unrealised personal development, etc. Some of these issues have been explored here: https://christisking.cc/threads/marriage-virgins-vs-non-virgins.850/page-3#post-38821

It is? We need a thread on this.

Here's the thread to continue the IVF discussion: https://christisking.cc/threads/in-vitro-fertilization.1097/

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

I'm starting to see some of what IIMT is talking about here in the southeast US and I agree with some of his reasoning on the subject. Just today I had a very pretty mid 20's blonde white girl with no tats voluntarily without solicitation offer me her phone number. I was actually quite surprised as I don't recall that ever happening before in my 50+ years of life (not even when I myself was in my 20's). I've always had to ask girls for their phone numbers. There's also been some other more subtle 20-something year old girls kind of flirting with me as of late too. Strange (but welcome). I think they're picking up on the fact that I've completely checked out of paying attention to women and maybe this makes me more interesting to them (or something like that)? But I think the main thing is that they are really impressed with my business and are some of my most loyal customers and as a result the business has given me some form of social status and regional mini-fame. The business also puts me in natural, unforced contact with lots of college girls weekly and so I think the numbers game is starting to pay off (similar to making lots of cold approaches in the PUA days). So yeah, "getting out there" and putting yourself in a natural position of physical proximity to lots of 20-something year old women seems to be one of the keys. It was inadvertent, but starting a great retail business in close proximity to 3 major universities seems to have actually been a great move in terms of meeting young women who may be open to wide age gaps. The overton window may also be slightly shifting too when you have very public young beautiful white women like Karoline Leavitt (age 27) marrying and procreating with a man 32 years her senior, thus modeling to young American women that age gaps are not necessarily "creepy," and can in fact be loving, peaceful, stable, and mature.

I had two different guys, on different nights, tell me that they feel women are becoming more aggressive and even more willing to just have friends with benefits arrangements. Partially so they can focus on their "career" and partially because so few men check all their boxes that they just take what they can get. So, when they meet a real man, they don't care about the age, they found their oasis in the desert of men being destroyed by feminism. The "hate bounces" discussion on another forum from 20+ years ago is now coming to fruition. Women hated men via feminism, this destroyed men, now women are becoming desperate for men as the hate bounced back.

 

[GoodShepherd]

 

[Blade Runner]

The chick im dating now is 38, has a lot of family assets, on our 2nd date she paid for dinner

Yes, in a culture where women work in general there will be older, unmarried women and obviously they have to try other methods when older to make a guy stick around, since after 30 men only go up in stock, and women down.

So yeah, "getting out there" and putting yourself in a natural position of physical proximity to lots of 20-something year old women seems to be one of the keys. It was inadvertent, but starting a great retail business in close proximity to 3 major universities seems to have actually been a great move in terms of meeting young women who may be open to wide age gaps.

No doubt. You have a particularly good example of an almost best possible scenario for that type of thing to happen, if the times, culture and encounters are open to it.

 

[Knight.of.Logos]

Even talking to some girls ~10 years younger than me, the 25-30 range, many of them still have more baggage than an international airport.

I'm just trying to work on my relationship with God and self improvement. I've spent a lot of time the last 3 years fretting and being black pilled. That's just demonic. Trying to get out of my introvert shell more. If God leads the right woman on my path, glory to God. If I have to stay single for the rest of my life, glory to God.

 

[intro]

Yep. Compared to natural, spontaneous conception, IVF is associated with an increased risk of problems such as fetal abnormalities, due to:

(a) inherent issues with the IVF process,
(b) the tendency for older women, especially those with underlying infertility issues, to use IVF; and to a lesser but significant extent,
(c) the tendency for older men, including those with underlying infertility issues, to use IVF.

Studies of Assisted Reproduction

Increased risk of various negative outcomes reported across most studies tend to vary from 1% to 50%, with some studies showing 100% - 200% greater risk for rarer conditions. Example studies are quoted below.

*Note. An odds ratio (OR) of 1.15 means the exposure being studied is associated with 15% higher odds of the outcome occurring compared to the reference group.




Influence of Parental Characteristics

Note that fathers are not exempt




Implications

This research has some implications in relation to the broader topic of this thread. These implications are also informed by my wider knowledge and personal experience (older father, in my 40's, wife in her 20's).

- Younger women are objectively more desirable, not just based on physical appearance or a lack of emotional baggage, but also due to their better health and fertility

- Older women (30 - 35+) are more likely to seek IVF, are less capable of carrying a healthy pregnancy to full term naturally, and when they do give birth, their children are more likely to have medical complications: https://academic.oup.com/humupd/article-abstract/11/3/261/759255?redirectedFrom=fulltext. Many women are not up to speed with these medical realities: https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2012/may/making-decisions-about-fertility

- Although the age of women is a stronger factor in determining the viability of pregnancy compared to age of men, older men (35 - 45+) are still likely to have more issues pre-conception due to degraded sperm quality, DNA damage, etc, and to have more problems with their children's health** https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-n...rs-associated-with-increased-birth-risks.html

** Caveats. This doesnt touch on the challenges for older parents once the baby arrives - e.g., lower energy, more health issues, etc. Developing wealth over time does improve quality of life, increases social status, and makes men more attractive. However it's not an elixir to solve all problems associated with aging, large age gaps, unrealised personal development, etc. Some of these issues have been explored here: https://christisking.cc/threads/marriage-virgins-vs-non-virgins.850/page-3#post-38821



Here's the thread to continue the IVF discussion: https://christisking.cc/threads/in-vitro-fertilization.1097/

I appreciate the level of research that went into this, but the answer is in one of your sources: “embryo screening to only transfer unaffected embryos.” That is the whole point of IVF is to make sure the embryo doesn’t have down syndrome, autism etc. Both conditions happen way too often in naturally conceived children these days, probably because the parents have lived an unhealthy lifestyle - drinking, smoking, bad food etc - that affects their genetic material. Being able to select a healthy embryo is the best thing you can do to prevent that. I can’t even imagine the tragedy of having a kid with down syndrome.

 

[Australia Sucks]

partially because so few men check all their boxes that they just take what they can get.

Also women's standards have also risen astronomically over time thanks to social media and online dating to the point where only 1% (or less) of men truly meet the standards of average women. Women want a guy who is 6 foot tall earns $150,000+ is muscular and handsome and has an above average sized private part, etc. All because one time a guy from tinder who ticks al the boxes slept with them for one night before ghosting them permanently but they are alpha widowed and that is their new baseline standard.

 

[Australia Sucks]

If God leads the right woman on my path, glory to God.

Do not expect anything to fall on your lap. Basically most of the forum has continually been making the point that in the year 2025 for 99%+ of men in the west going overseas is the only viable option. Do you have a plan to live overseas eventually or you just going to keep trying to look through all of the poisoned western women to try to find the proverbial needle in the haystack?

(I am assuming you are living in the west although I could be wrong).

 

[SeekingTruth]

I appreciate the level of research that went into this, but the answer is in one of your sources: “embryo screening to only transfer unaffected embryos.” That is the whole point of IVF is to make sure the embryo doesn’t have down syndrome, autism etc. Both conditions happen way too often in naturally conceived children these days, probably because the parents have lived an unhealthy lifestyle - drinking, smoking, bad food etc - that affects their genetic material. Being able to select a healthy embryo is the best thing you can do to prevent that. I can’t even imagine the tragedy of having a kid with down syndrome.

I appreciate the level of research that went into this, but the answer is in one of your sources: “embryo screening to only transfer unaffected embryos.” That is the whole point of IVF is to make sure the embryo doesn’t have down syndrome, autism etc. Both conditions happen way too often in naturally conceived children these days, probably because the parents have lived an unhealthy lifestyle - drinking, smoking, bad food etc - that affects their genetic material. Being able to select a healthy embryo is the best thing you can do to prevent that. I can’t even imagine the tragedy of having a kid with down syndrome.

But the question becomes are we supposed to be "playing God" and selecting our embryos and genetic traits? Do Christians see this as a natural process?
That's why atheists love this crap. They can pretend to play God and continue to claim that we are just products of science. In the hands of these whackos, we will see this worsen and potentially have artificial wombs to remove man completely from the process. All so these sad couples can finally have a child they will claim.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

But the question becomes are we supposed to be "playing God" and selecting our embryos and genetic traits? Do Christians see this as a natural process?
That's why atheists love this crap. They can pretend to play God and continue to claim that we are just products of science. In the hands of these whackos, we will see this worsen and potentially have artificial wombs to remove man completely from the process. All so these sad couples can finally have a child they will claim.

Are we playing God when we jump on a jet and fly for thousands of miles? Without said technology, race mixing would largely not exist. Up until about 70 years ago, for anyone to travel to a far distance where an entire difference race lived, was almost unheard of and reserved for only the most well off and connected. My own grandfather, who fought in WW2, marveled at the different world he experiences in the south pacific. Because no one else in his small town would have seen such things. I, today, can jump on a jet and see the same things in less than a day. It took an entire world war and his survival to tell those stories, just 80 years ago.

Now we can just jet set around the world and experience all sorts of things that maybe were never intended for humans. Maybe this is why severe depression and dependence is so rife among people, we are experiencing stress and circumstances that are foreign to the human experience.

 

[Australia Sucks]

Without said technology, race mixing would largely not exist.

Race mixing didn't happen until planes? Are you for real? What about black people that have race mixed with whites for over 400 years in USA? What about most of Latin America since the time of Christopher Colombus (just before the year 1500 A.D.) where whites and natives and Africans mixed together. What about the Roman empire where people from all Europe, and also parts of North Africa and Western Asia lived together in Rome and sometimes race mixed? What about the soldiers in the Mongol empire who raped women in many different countries? I could go on and on.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

Race mixing didn't happen until planes? Are you for real? What about black people that have race mixed with whites for over 400 years in USA? What about most of Latin America since the time of Christopher Colombus (just before the year 1500 A.D.) where whites and natives and Africans mixed together. What about the Roman empire where people from all Europe, and also parts of North Africa and Western Asia lived together in Rome and sometimes race mixed? What about the soldiers in the Mongol empire who raped women in many different countries? I could go on and on.

It existed, but it was much more rare. Yes, slave owners had sex with their slaves and produced Mulato's who were mostly house slaves. Yes, across the Middle East you do have a mix of races, that goes back many centuries. 99% of Europeans didn't come into contact, in a social sense, with non-Europeans until the invention of jet technology.