So you admit that you cannot really be sure that Christianity is real?
Agnostic's Corner (Is God real?)
- Thread starter Seng Hock
- Start date
Within the Christian paradigm, it can be known that the God of the Bible does exist. In fact, even non-believers have an awareness that they are created by God, even though they suppress that truth in unrighteousness and suffer from spiritual delusion. It is this delusion that Christians are trying to save you from. I don't wish to dogpile you either. If you sense any frustration on our part, then understand it to be like the frustration of a lifeguard who is trying to save someone from drowning but is being wrestled against by the person they're trying to pull out of the water.
Within the Agnostic and Atheist paradigm, there is not even a foundation for objective truth at all. Though this will not stop atheists and agnostics from continuing to live their lives as if objective truth is a reality. This is because it is an inescapable reality that we live in God's world and are His creation.
Same thats why i just follow people smarter and wiser than myself. Smart enough to discern reasonably well what info is good or not and then incorporate it. Not smart enough to figure everything out on your own, why try to reinvent the wheel. We also dont need all the answers and an explanation for everything. Its not practical for normal people trying to live their life and better reserved for specialists like priests, scholars, philosophers who can then spread the essentials to us. Intuition and gut feeling are often enough or better to discern good from evil in daily life look at how many people today are led down the wrong path because they are so stuck on words and explanations ( trust the science ).
Christians aren't motivated by finding hard scientific evidence to prove that God exists because that goes against having faith. On the other hand atheist scientists would love to find hard scientific evidence to prove that God does not exist and they have not been able to do so.
The elites are telling us in public that God does not exist but in private are worshipping satan themselves. You would think they have acces to the best knowledge and explanations in the world.
So many puzzle pieces are there all pointing to the same thing, its just that the puzzle can never be completed fully and form the whole picture and thats where the faith comes in. If the whole image was there it would be easy. followers would have no way to prove themselves loyal.
To put it in manosphere terms same as a woman having an easy time ''loving'' a famous rich man. You would not know if she is genuine. And precisely why some men are afraid of gold diggers. You want a girl that loves you and is loyal when you have nothing material or wordly to offer. That is how she proves her love and faith in you.
having faith can be hard especially while suffering. And this is something i struggle with myself. Not the explanation for Gods existence or logic part. but keeping faith when everything is going against you. And that is probably the whole point.
@Iakobos Yes probably it will make more sense once i actually read the whole bible. Started on it again.
Last edited:
Did I? I don't think you are really listening to what I fully wrote and are cherry picking my story for a "gotcha" moment to fit your lack of belief in God narrative and to justify your lust for young virgins and belief that money can buy you one.
The fact that you call yourself "agnostic" when you have the rebellious God denying spirit of an atheist, while talking incessantly about moving half way around the world from your family to a Christian country because "Australia Sucks" due to globohomo atheism so you can marry a young beautiful Christian women who is a virgin because she is a Christian is the height of demonically influenced hypocrisy.
Last edited:
Shaquilleoatmeal
Protestant
Adam and Eve were aware God existed because of direct contact with him. They did not have the choice to believe or not. They were similar to the Angels in that their choice was to obey or not. So did Adam and Eve not have this “perfect free will?”
No, it is real, even if I cannot prove it, just like I believe myself is real, or that theft is wrong, or that murder is wrong, or that I love my mother. I don't need to be able to scientifically prove these things to know they are real, just like you don't.
No they did not, and this was by design: God knew they would choose to disobey, and make us in a perfect state of free will where we future humans would be able to choose to believe or not.
I'm a big fan of Chris Langan, his theories are beyond my comprehension, however my gut says he's a good person. I listened to his 4 hour interview with Curt Jaimungle, it is fascinating. His interview with Michael Knowles has 10 million views, which is extraordinary given he's not a celebrity.
I'm agnostic, I'm not an atheist. If someone as brilliant as Langan says God is real, it causes me to pause and leave my mind open to the possibility. I've also noticed that the smartest of the smart also tend to believe in God, this too informs me to keep an open mind.
I'm somewhere around here at the moment
I've personally experienced the "something beyond the physically explainable reality", I'm absolutely positive that something is going on outside of myself that I cannot understand. But, at the moment, I cannot link this to a being. When I try to link it to an entity I feel like it's an impossible task because *I* am inserting myself ( projection ) into the attempt to understand. I've read parts of the Bible and I feel like it's an attempt to make the non-understandable somewhat coherent for normal brains, and so there's a corruption of truth in this process that I just can't get past. It's the fact that the smartest of the smart believe in God that impresses me so much that I am keeping an open mind, I have to! these people are absolutely brilliant, I'm not, there HAS to be something to it. So, that's where I'm at for the moment.
Yup, agreed. This is a problem also.
I seriously wish I believed in God, I've prayed about 200 times in the past 4 years and haven't noticed a sign. I'm envious of those of you that feel a comfort and peace because of your belief. Hopefully I'll arrive there one day.
I like that one, about also not being able to scientifically prove that you love someone. I definitely love my kids, and yet you couldn't prove that in the same way you can test the law of gravity.
Last edited:
I dunno, maybe you can, it just isn't the kind of science you can assign a mathematical formula to. If you are shown pictures of loved ones compared to strangers and particular parts of your brain light up that are strongly correlated with what we define as love when you see your kids, then it's scientifically provable you love your kids.
The "how can something come from nothing" argument should solidify it for most people.
If you're a scientist and understand entropy and the 2nd law of thermodynamics it's that things become more disordered over time. Well then how do scientists mentally navigate this quandary with evolution and a creation of humans by things randomly becoming more ordered? Make it make sense.
They often say they sun is there to increase order in the system. Ok where did that come from? Turtles all the way down.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
If you're a scientist and understand entropy and the 2nd law of thermodynamics it's that things become more disordered over time. Well then how do scientists mentally navigate this quandary with evolution and a creation of humans by things randomly becoming more ordered? Make it make sense.
They often say they sun is there to increase order in the system. Ok where did that come from? Turtles all the way down.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
That means nothing, you can light up those same parts of the brain with drugs. That doesn't mean those drugs make you love someone.
If God were to 'reveal Himself' a la Monty Python, and tell the world that He is God and we must now believe, people that didn't want to believe would still not believe. AI? CGI? David Copperfield again?
Those who would believe, would they believe out of fear? While you would do well to respectfully fear such a powerful being such as God, He desires to be in relationship with each of us. If He were to force his way into our lives, that is not love. So He has left it obvious to us that He exists, and we should seek Him out if we choose to do so. That is a loving relationship.
Faith is not blind faith. I have faith that my parents love me. My children have faith that I love them. No scientific tests will prove that. You are asking to explain the unlimited supernatural using the limited natural sciences, that is impossible.
You have to ask, seek, knock. Once you accept Him, then the 'proof' becomes undeniable by way of the Holy Spirit.
This us where I think people like Jordan Peterson get a bit stuck. They try and intellectualise it, get 75% of the way there, then can't get the remaining way because it's not about our intellect. Romans 1:22.
God does not need us, He wants us. We do need God, but some do not want Him. It is for us to look for Him. Once you do, you will kick yourself for being so blind.
Those who would believe, would they believe out of fear? While you would do well to respectfully fear such a powerful being such as God, He desires to be in relationship with each of us. If He were to force his way into our lives, that is not love. So He has left it obvious to us that He exists, and we should seek Him out if we choose to do so. That is a loving relationship.
Faith is not blind faith. I have faith that my parents love me. My children have faith that I love them. No scientific tests will prove that. You are asking to explain the unlimited supernatural using the limited natural sciences, that is impossible.
You have to ask, seek, knock. Once you accept Him, then the 'proof' becomes undeniable by way of the Holy Spirit.
This us where I think people like Jordan Peterson get a bit stuck. They try and intellectualise it, get 75% of the way there, then can't get the remaining way because it's not about our intellect. Romans 1:22.
God does not need us, He wants us. We do need God, but some do not want Him. It is for us to look for Him. Once you do, you will kick yourself for being so blind.
There was this very prominent poster on the old Roosh forums who actually did say that even if God were to reveal Himself in a way His existence couldn't be denied, he would still continue to hate Him and refuse to worship Him. An atheist argument I heard used against believers a lot was about how believers were captured by wishful thinking and that they believe mostly out of a desire for a being that is guiding the universe and will give them guidance on how to live life. After spending quite a bit of time listening to atheists give their reasons for not believing I concluded that a lot of atheists are also prone to this type of wishful thinking but from the other end: it's not just they don't think God exists based on rational argument but they don't want God to exist. In the same way a believer might have a longing for fatherly figure, an atheist can just easily have a longing to NOT have a fatherly authority figure that's going put boundaries on their fun and going to put a spotlight on their deeds.
I guess I'm confused, wouldn't that mean those drugs do make you love someone if they simulate a feeling of love?
"Is God real?"
That is for you to figure out on your own.
Mainstream media and Hollywood continues to mock, stun and hate Christianity. Why?
There are worldwide Christian persecutions in anti-Christian countries. Why?
There used to be bible readings and prayers in public schools, which triggered the atheists to go to court to put a stop to it in the 1960's. Why?
There are fake churches, pastors, priests, etc. that are spreading false teachings. Why?
The ((()))s hate Christians and Jesus Christ. Why?
There are Satanic rituals, child molesters, murderers, pedophiles, homosexuals, drag queens, etc. Why?
Is Satan, Devil, Evil, etc. real? Look at the above list again...look around you and pay attention...
Is God real?
That is for you to figure out on your own.
Mainstream media and Hollywood continues to mock, stun and hate Christianity. Why?
There are worldwide Christian persecutions in anti-Christian countries. Why?
There used to be bible readings and prayers in public schools, which triggered the atheists to go to court to put a stop to it in the 1960's. Why?
There are fake churches, pastors, priests, etc. that are spreading false teachings. Why?
The ((()))s hate Christians and Jesus Christ. Why?
There are Satanic rituals, child molesters, murderers, pedophiles, homosexuals, drag queens, etc. Why?
Is Satan, Devil, Evil, etc. real? Look at the above list again...look around you and pay attention...
Is God real?
That is on you because you clearly have never picked up the Bible to crack open the book to read the scriptures.
You can find clues in the Bible. There are scriptures that warned us of false churches, false teachers and false teachings.
Anyone who called themselves agnostics and/or atheists, that is their choice in not showing an interest in Christianity.
Maybe try to join a Church and talk to a priest about it? What is stopping you from doing that?
Have you tried reading a Bible?
Hear what Magoo said.
Let's use Roosh's pizza recipe as an example. Roosh created the perfect Italian Neapolitan pizza recipe. It is available for free, and everyone can try it. It even includes a tutorial on how to make it. However, we don't believe it and ask Roosh to prove that his recipe is indeed the best with crystal-clear, peer-reviewed scientific proof. Of course, Roosh wouldn't have any of this nonsense. He is not selling his recipe and did not profit from it, as it is already free. If we want to try it, that's great. But if we don't like it, then we can go away. Roosh doesn't need us; we are the ones who need Roosh and his recipe.
We need to try Roosh's pizza recipe and decide for ourselves whether it is worth it, without relying on scientific proof from others. So, we get straight to baking Neapolitan pizza according to Roosh's instructions. After baking a single pizza, we can form a preliminary conclusion about whether it was worth it or not. However, it is not yet time to make a final decision, as Roosh stated that we need to be willing to try his recipe at least five times. Once we can perfectly create Roosh's pizza, it is guaranteed that we have found the ultimate pizza recipe, and there is none other like it.
So, Australia Sucks, follow Magoo's advice and go to a church to pray and attend a service. Go there several times and visit different churches. You can't just ask for a scientific explanation without even trying it yourself. Science is not the ultimate authority; observation is.
Also, God indeed revealed Himself openly in the past, but it didn't work out as expected. Jesus Christ was murdered by His haters, and almost all of His apostles were also murdered, except for a few who survived, like John the Evangelist.
If I may ask, Australia, although you now identify as agnostic, were you raised as a Christian or in any other religion? I ask because although you explicitly identify as agnostic, your actions suggest otherwise. In most of the things you do, you act like a Christian without even realizing it. Your morality bears similarity to Christianity, despite you saying that right or wrong depends on the individual.
You mentioned in one of the threads that you live a frugal life and started investing and saving since high school. Most agnosticism/atheism can lead to nihilism, so many people just live in the moment and chase pleasure. Yet you think about the future and have hopes in life.
In one of your posts, I saw you mentioned living with your parents to save money. When I read this, I interpreted it as you being humble. You are a filial son, living with your parents to take care of them and keep them company. You are unwilling to leave them alone unless you are already married and have a family of your own.
You have shown that you are a very forgiving person. In the past, you have been disrespected and outright trolled in multiple threads, but you never harbored hatred or sought revenge. You forgave them and did not hold grudges, even though they felt righteous and never asked for your forgiveness.
If you wanted to, you could join other forums like SoSuave, Skilled Seducer, and SwoopTheWorld. However, you chose to stay in Christ is King, an explicitly Christian forum. Most non-Christian members here usually don't last long and become inactive shortly after registering.
When the name of Jesus Christ is invoked multiple times, you remain calm and composed. Most atheistic or demonically influenced individuals would lose their composure and start manifesting their demons outwardly.
You have always championed the cause of virginity. You instinctively know that extramarital sex is wrong. Although, in this case, you are halfway correct, as both men and women need to maintain purity and chastity, not just women.
You could always use dating apps like Tinder, Bumble, OkCupid, or others. However, you prefer the old-fashioned way of meeting women face-to-face organically. You spend a lot of time and money meeting women in their own places, even if it is in a different country.
The only way you can come to such outcomes is if you were raised in a Christian or religious household. Or perhaps you participated in religious activities during your youth and only recently became agnostic?
A lot of good points have been made already, but one thing I haven't seen posted yet is the book Mere Christianity. It's worth reading if you're ever on the fence about your faith. This book marked the turning point from my 15 years of agnosticism to coming back to Christ.
I was baptized way too young, young enough to know it was what mommy and daddy wanted but too young to understand scripture. I started to read scripture from beginning to end, and let certain questions that came to mind just hang there and fester. That doubt lead to some soul searching and reading up on other religions. Eventually I was doing yoga at a place where a lot of us regulars were treating it like a church. I noticed all the same things I used to criticize about church and churchgoers among all the "yogis." I wanted to get back in touch with my own roots, and figured that started with my parents' religion. That's what lead me to read that book.
There's a part of that book where CS Lewis wrote something to the effect of 'some are destined to linger the halls of non-denominational while peering in the doors of each denomination forever,' or something like that. It stuck with me because I have the same struggle. Maybe it's a reflection of being raised in multiple denominations. Some of it is that there just are that many denominations, and I want to think of them all as my fellow Christians first.
@Australia Sucks and others who are agnostic, if you're any bit interested in any introductions to Christianity outside of reading the Bible, I invite you to read that book.
Perhaps you ultimately have to have that moment in life such that is so moving you choose to believe in Jesus Christ. But when I really stop to think about it, that moment was the result of a process already set in motion by my parents taking me to church regularly at its root.
I was baptized way too young, young enough to know it was what mommy and daddy wanted but too young to understand scripture. I started to read scripture from beginning to end, and let certain questions that came to mind just hang there and fester. That doubt lead to some soul searching and reading up on other religions. Eventually I was doing yoga at a place where a lot of us regulars were treating it like a church. I noticed all the same things I used to criticize about church and churchgoers among all the "yogis." I wanted to get back in touch with my own roots, and figured that started with my parents' religion. That's what lead me to read that book.
There's a part of that book where CS Lewis wrote something to the effect of 'some are destined to linger the halls of non-denominational while peering in the doors of each denomination forever,' or something like that. It stuck with me because I have the same struggle. Maybe it's a reflection of being raised in multiple denominations. Some of it is that there just are that many denominations, and I want to think of them all as my fellow Christians first.
@Australia Sucks and others who are agnostic, if you're any bit interested in any introductions to Christianity outside of reading the Bible, I invite you to read that book.
Perhaps you ultimately have to have that moment in life such that is so moving you choose to believe in Jesus Christ. But when I really stop to think about it, that moment was the result of a process already set in motion by my parents taking me to church regularly at its root.