Ah to be 21 again and go to my first bars. Start chatting up a gal my age and then a guy like 10 15 years elder pulls up and gives me the stink eye. “Oh hey Kaveman, this is my boyfriend, Chad, this is my new friend Kaveman”
The Destruction of Modern Women
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it’s funny how he will have no problem with college Chad sleeping around with girls his age but if an older man wants a relationship it’s awful
They’re both chads. If an older man can pull up on a woman and her not get grossed out and go “old bag” I’m sorry, he’s a chad too.
That's a terrible ambassador for old guys. Guy is super defensive. They're literally arguing about nothing. No one can stop you from dating young women. What they can do is make it socially uncomfortable, or taboo enough that it never happens to begin with. At its essence the age gap debate is about something completely different. It's about "evil liberal whites who are in everyone's business, trying to poison all joy in life with their satanic BS". Welcome to the club, I've felt that way for decades. Most whites like to defend these liberal whites but it's moments like this that really spotlight the gravity of these busybody demons. Unfortunately, this busybody disease is hitting SA and Asia hard as well.
What do they go on to say?
In other places it's more of an understood thing, I think you are correct in this. The difference is that you actually get some benefits from it, vs what in the west is closer to what (I haven't heard this in a while) a pay piggy was.
Affairs at work are extremely common in the corporate west. I know of several women who slept with their bosses to get a promotion and their husbands and children had no idea. Very awkward when you meet their families outside of work...
GrecoRoman
Catholic
True. It’s a laughing stock because the affairs are at times obvious. Case in point at a former workplace they’d meet at a nearby bar and be all over each other. The husbands have their heads stuck in the sand and it’s embarrassing because many people at work know.
As an aside to this, that’s one of my personal issues. As you get older you don’t know or her possibly extensive background in the ‘dating’ department. Although in all fairness she doesn’t know of the man’s either, but as we discussed earlier it’s a false equivalency. Do I need to spend lots of money on a background check or an investigator? It’s such a huge hassle and that’s the word I use to describe modern dating, just a big hassle for little reward.
Related and sad story. I was reading an online boxing forum a few years back and there was a discussion about a famous (at least in LatAM) Latin American boxer and his ‘model’ wife. Several (as in 10 or more) men chimed in saying she was a former stripper / prostitute at a famous club. The posts read like “Yeah I remember and met her there too, had a great time for $150” with guys posting pics of her at that time. Totally embarrassing but I just laughed (for real) as it was so par for the course these days. That’s the risk you take.
Is Rollo saying that the older woman is mad that she herself wasted the capital or that a younger woman is wasting her "capital"/assets on an older man?
I've never understood how anyone can not see that the youth for a made man is not quite clearly a great trade. Both parties know what they are getting, and it's guaranteed. What's more, the woman only has a few years of her youth anyway, which I've always said is a must so a guy can at least later on remember her, beyond all the other requisite parts of making a true marriage possible with that youth.
It's amazing how many levels of bad older women have when you continue to think about it. The age thing just adds up so many things that can only work against a man and his attempts to make things work with her.
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That makes sense. It explains why he doesn't have any good argument and gets increasingly agitated to the point of saying ridiculous things like, "The woman (dating an older man) is going to be traumatized." He sees the older guy as a threat. I get it - but it just makes him look weak. A better argument for a young guy to make is something like: "She's going to be stuck taking care of you when you're old and feeble, while I'll still be able-bodied and virile..." Of course, most women getting involved with an older man understand this, are warned about it, and they accept it as part of the deal.
Anyway, I can't relate to the age gap hate. Yeah, there are older guys who are creepy, and younger women who are hoes looking for a sugar arrangement, and you see that more as the age gap widens.
My logic has always been: why would I be interested in a man who's not interested in me? How would that ever work out? One of the biggest turn-ons (on every level) for a woman is feeling her man's desire (on every level) for her. So I don't get criticizing men going after younger women if that's what they want. Do these women think they're going to shame men into wanting them? It makes no sense. But I guess anxiety and insecurity (which is at the root of the shaming) don't always manifest in ways that make sense.
This is actually where men and women are somewhat similar.
If I had a wife, why would I be jumping off the couch to investigate if my wife is going on a hoe excursion? Obviously if it's super blatant, she's leaving at 10 PM to take care of important business, I will grab my binoculars but otherwise as a married person you kind of have to ignore a lot of stuff to not go crazy. Women are walking red flags anyway, if you have a wife, I'm confident she has red flags. If you're retarded and want to see if what I'm saying is true, try to secretly watch your wife exchanging eye contact with other men. I don't recommend it.
This is why people need to look at relationships pragmatically, instead of from a perspective of finding a soul mate. It's an investment. You have a wife, is she respectful? Having sex with you? Gave you children that looked like you? If you received such things then it was a good investment, even if it ends up going sour. Sometimes you might even choose to ignore certain things for the greater good.
It's unfortunate as a man you're put in such a position but that's what makes being a man great: our ability to persevere. That's why you make sure you get some ROI from every relationship, and don't be a sucker who gets nothing but disrespect from the beginning. Those are the guys that go postal, because they didn't put on their big boy pants when it came to making the right choices.
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This is bad reasoning, and I've heard it a lot. Not only because it makes less sense for me as I've been in better health than most (may God grant that to continue, but it may not, who knows), but mostly because it's just an excuse to fear something, claim some anxiety or paranoia and is based on very little. There's almost as good a chance, certainly depending on the person, that the woman will have a bad health outcome. And one should always weight what is known greater than what is unknown, since you get direct instant benefits (or not) from the current reality. As a result, the young woman who chooses the older man does it rationally of course because she knows that he has the goods. And he chooses her because she has what men value, youth and fertility. It's very simple.
They do and they don't; they mostly just do it because it's a shit hits the wall thing, they just throw it and hope. Why? They don't have power or any other tactic to try. Yes, it's stupid and insecure, which is the point here by you and me.
Yes, this is how bad feminism and the M:F ratio, money printing and simping has gotten.
Totally. It's also why of course St. Paisios (Chrysostom said the same) generally says to choose a better person over wife who is prettier. Everyone actually knows that, and that's the rub, but it's much harder for men to do because of our primary values in women, which women don't have as a corollary. In modernity, though, since women have baseline resources or guarantees, they take on the masculine and start to try to require looks in a man, outsized to their nature. Not practical, and not with humility in that they lose most of their looks value very early; only have a short window so you have to give that to a man in order for him to feel good about the life sponsorship/provisioning, protection.
All of this is to again say that once you take women out of youthful ages, marriage makes no sense practically for anyone. That's the point of the thread, really, when this all is normalized it sabotages women (out of a family and fulfillment) and men in that they deal with older, jaded, lower value scammers and feel trapped by many things, including bad behavior, less sex drive, less fertility, and a legal entrapment as the final boss.
Put simply, freedom is a tricky concept for all humans especially in a society, and especially for women. Not restricting them with social norms, religion, and expectations that are good for families, husbands, and children does a disservice to everyone and limits the number and health of children, to boot.
I know no one likes to think about their mortality. But it's a fact that when the man is 15+ years older than the woman, odds are higher she's going to take on more caretaking responsibility as he ages - and that he's likelier to pass before she does, so she'll be a widow. It is hard for any woman to deal with her man losing his health and strength, and becoming a widow. That doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to make that choice. But every pairing has inherent pros and cons.
The point is that you are getting a guarantee. You know he's successful and what his shape is currently. Part of her job is to take care of him, by the way, even if that were to be a (bigger) duty. Why not also worry about the young man who doesn't have anything that you also might have to "take care of"? See, you can always worry about something. The point is that you can't get a guarantee, necessarily. Thus, the value.
I’ve actually seen that happen in real life. The 40 50 year old woman starts getting really angry with the 60 year old 70 year old man. A lot of cheating happens then.
I see 40 on the horizon and I actually feel more youthful than I did in my mid 20s, then I felt more like a pack mule for boomers. I sometimes wonder if not being in the church was a factor in feeling different now. Basically I feel like I’m in the same place in life where a 25 year old who came from a good family and got set up for success is.
Now let’s swap the genders. A 40 year old woman who’s finally paid down the student debt and can start living her life, traveling, kids are older, get back into hobbies, etc. watching my parents, a switch hits around age 60. They just aren’t interested in these things anymore. They just want to sit at home. Vs a 40 year old man would be more than happy to do these things with her. I got some traveling scheduled and my dad was even like “why are you going there? I can see it on TV and the computer.” Unless the dude maintains his youth, this can cause huge conflicts in age gap couples.
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GrecoRoman
Catholic
Excellent points. As men, at least the ones in the category that read this forum, my guess is many of us think of relationships and marriage with the pragmatic lens you outlined. At least I do. Of course that’s part of the rub, because in addition to ALL the things outlined these days, many modern women still want to be woo’ed and ‘have the feels’ for you. Now I’m not stating to downplay charisma, personality, or humor when in a relationship but let’s be real. Some of that stuff doesn’t matter as much in the long run. Modern women sleep with and date horrible guys ‘who make them laugh’ just look around at all the dregs that young attractive women date and you come to the conclusion that they have zero ability to choose a good mate.
I guess my point that I stated in a long winded way is that most women date ‘anti-pragmatically.’ That makes it more difficult for men like us who think things through.
GrecoRoman
Catholic
The other potential issue with age gaps is the younger woman doesn’t get certain references. This can also apply to a woman from a different culture. The times were different when you two grew up. Example I was once chatting with this girl who was 26 / 27 who had no clue who Mike Tyson was. It’s not a huge deal, but you have to deal with funny looks and clueless expressions when you crack a joke or make a reference. Some younger women also have retarded hobbies like ‘clubbing’ , ‘scary movies’ (demonic), ‘celebrity worship’, or ‘spirituality’, which usually consists of things that are pagan or demonic in nature like astrology or tarot cards.
Even the trad types get influenced by these online ‘conservative’ women and aren’t much better than a secular woman. They still act and dress like whores, but wear a cross as a necklace like some type of protective magical amulet. That’s another thing, there’s this trend online I’ve noticed of women treating God like some genie that gives them stuff. Kind of like a celestial sugar daddy or transactional Christianity. They post or repost memes like ‘I thank God for the riches he will give me today’
Then some clueless guy on Fox News or a priest who’s out of touch says the younger generation is more religious. Many are just parroting the words for some material rewards and not living the faith. Complete fakery.
Finding a woman who’s avoided all these influences is like hitting the lottery.
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