Money and Resources in Courtship, Dating and Marriage

[KulturedKaveman]

Mod Note by Steady Hands
Discussions about finances and resources in the context of women, dating, and relationships are often discussed in a range of threads, which leaves them without a coherent structure. With this in mind, I created this thread and moved some posts here from the 'Destruction of Modern Women' thread. Post #16 below explains the ideas for this thread. An unmoderated post from KulturedKaveman commences below:

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Some more updates.

I took this topic off the forum and into the streets with some women in my family. There’s something this entire forum overlooked that was bought up. Especially with the “a few past boyfriends” category

Like I mentioned I live in an economically depressed area and wages are low. The marriage minded women come from good families and are heavily subsidized by mom and dad so their income + subsidies make them feel wealthier than they are… hence the loving their career. They think the subsidies are normal and everyone has them. So say they have their 40-50k a year office job. Parents pay for apartment rent or housing down payment, they get a leftover family car free, mom has a family plan for the phone. People forget the reason the guillotine isn’t out yet is this isn’t Ancienne Regime France. It’s not <1% and >99% at all. About 20% of Americans are absolutely crushing it and there’s no risk of starvation which is quite clear by the size of its citizens. Daddy’s money is a factor that I never considered till my sister bought it up. Millennial men and Zoomer men are competing against Boomer money subsidies too, which makes the career so attractive in the first place. Boomers came from a different economic reality where they can shower “help” on their daughters. Millennial and Zoomer women from good families really did have life on easy mode from the 90s to honestly, I’d say the wheels are in the initial phases of coming off. They got used to being given boomer money and the state hyped them up 2014 and later. No wonder an allowance is just expected if you’re monogamous.

The poorer women aren’t marriage minded here. They have kids and EBT WIC, non profits pick up the rest. If we had no welfare state 1. Things would be WAYYYYY cheaper, 2. The EBT WIC women will start chasing the middling men. In fact, if we eliminated the welfare state, I could see the Rust Belt and Greater Appalachia being a place for passport free passport bros and foreign passport bros. Instead of E. Europeans, pick yourself up a poor Ohio gal who wants out of Akron. And the obesity issue will be solved by no EBT.

 

[Blade Runner]

Daddy’s money is a factor that I never considered till my sister bought it up.

I've mentioned this at least a dozen times on the forum and I'm sure multiple times on this thread. A lot of women are backstopped in every way, especially if you are upper middle class, like you say, it comes out again in this generation. Amazing.

The younger guy is trying to protect his turf. If a bunch of older guys with more resources started dating 20 year olds en masse he’d have an even worse time finding a date. They’d just monopolize them all. It’s my opinion this is the same psychology that makes other guys block you or behave like snakes. They’d rather mess up your chances even if they have no chance themselves.

You are correct, but they aren't even aware of it (it's just visceral/subconcious), and the funnier part is that women their age won't give most of them the time of day anyway, nullifying any point if he even made it.

I think it's a general rule for the normie, who is largely void of talent or ability to compete (whether his fault or not), throughout time to love bringing others down "just because". Communism and any sort of collectivism without some sort of religious principle or buy in from everyone is always about this. It's also why people who can hack it on their own aren't collectivists, and hate those types, since they are just mad at being incompetent comparatively at least, and are insecure about it.

It's quite clear logically to everyone in the world that you don't get anything because others go down. There's an old Russian saying on this as well, "You don't get to heaven through other people's sins."

 

[PurpleUrkel]

Boomers came from a different economic reality where they can shower “help” on their daughters... heavily subsidized by mom and dad so their income + subsidies make them feel wealthier than they are… hence the loving their career.

Absolutely. My dad left me and my mom when I was two years old and was intermittently absent throughout my entire childhood and adolescence (though he loved me I think he was embarrassed to have bred with my mom and so he often disappeared). When I was around 17 he got remarried to a woman 15 years his junior and they had a girl together when I was 20. Fast forward to today and my Boomer male feminist father built my 30 year old half sister a custom house, pays her dog's vet bills and helps take care of them, bought her a car, paid for her college, and attended all her high school games (even moving her to another state for her senior year to play for a nationally recognized high school program in hopes of obtaining a college scholarship to play sports ball). In contrast, my dad never attended one of my high school football games, never paid a dime of child support (my mother refused to ask for his help), did not pay for my college, and refused to give me a 20K 90-day bridge loan to buy my first house.

I also lost my last girlfriend to her career that she could afford to pursue because her parents paid for all of her private college up through her Doctorate, gave her 80K for a down payment on a house, every 3 or 4 years they gifted her their old cars which were usually BMW's with less than 50K miles on them, and were going to be leaving her a 3 million dollar estate.

Who needs a man, when your parents got you covered.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

I've mentioned this at least a dozen times on the forum and I'm sure multiple times on this thread. A lot of women are backstopped in every way, especially if you are upper middle class, like you say, it comes out again in this generation. Amazing.

Unless you’re hooking up on tinder or into the poly thing, an allowance is just kind of expected in monogamy these days. I don’t even see this as a bad thing. If you passport bro out this is EXACTLY what those kind of relationships are.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

I also lost my last girlfriend to her career that she could afford to pursue because her parents paid for all of her private college up through her Doctorate, gave her 80K for a down payment on a house, every 3 or 4 years they gifted her their old cars which were usually BMW's with less than 50K miles on them, and were going to be leaving her a 3 million dollar estate.

Who needs a man, when your parents got you covered.

Im just curious as to what her parents did that allowed this kind of consumption? Best thing that can happen is all these people get wiped out in something like a super ‘08. It’s why I don’t see financial collapse or hyperinflation necessarily a bad thing.

Also, it’s why American women major in dumb stuff. Chinese and Indian women go into computer science, medicine, and engineering because they want their education to turn a profit. Their parents in their rural village can’t subsidize them.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

In other places it's more of an understood thing, I think you are correct in this. The difference is that you actually get some benefits from it, vs what in the west is closer to what (I haven't heard this in a while) a pay piggy was.

They can be hotter and more traditional which is awesome if you’re going into this for Orthodox marriage, but that’s about it. I am going to try Texas Jenn’s line when my single-tude ends and it inevitably gets bought up and say “ewww, an allowance, isn’t that for children? I see you more as a partner” and let’s see how long it takes for her to find someone else.

 

[analyst_green]

They can be hotter and more traditional which is awesome if you’re going into this for Orthodox marriage, but that’s about it. I am going to try Texas Jenn’s line when my single-tude ends and it inevitably gets bought up and say “ewww, an allowance, isn’t that for children? I see you more as a partner” and let’s see how long it takes for her to find someone else.

In an Orthodox marriage what's yours is hers and what's hers is yours. Because you both recognize your roles in relation to each other and to God. Totally different to this "allowance" nonsense which is nothing more than prostitution.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

In an Orthodox marriage what's yours is hers and what's hers is yours. Because you both recognize your roles in relation to each other and to God. Totally different to this "allowance" nonsense which is nothing more than prostitution.

So when people say “modern women are whores” they’re not being insulting. They’re kind of on the nose. “I’ll be with you and only you and in exchange be a man and help me with my bills.” It’s literally prostitution veiled as a relationship by that logic.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

So when people say “modern women are whores” they’re not being insulting. They’re kind of on the nose. “I’ll be with you and only you and in exchange be a man and help me with my bills.” Is literally prostitution veiled as a relationship by that logic.

The old saying is women only have two choices in profession.. That of a mother or that of a whore. Choose wisely. And no, a woman does not need to give birth to be a motherly figure.

 

[GrecoRoman]

So when people say “modern women are whores” they’re not being insulting. They’re kind of on the nose. “I’ll be with you and only you and in exchange be a man and help me with my bills.” It’s literally prostitution veiled as a relationship by that logic.

This aspect isn’t really well known in church circles since it’s usually hidden, and the priests and members are very out of touch. I’d like a priest to address these realities, but I doubt they ever will. It’s just more ‘keep praying for a spouse’ but the amount of whoring whether it’s blatant or low key is rampant. If you are a relatively successful man above 35, you WILL be solicited usually low key by these types in real life. Online with the apps it’s even more blatant. I had a few girls off Hinge ask what car I drove on the 1st date and one was a Catholic convert. Later I found out one was recently laid off and was just looking to mooch. It sets up the wrong dynamic because it feels transactional.

Other things that occur that are rarely talked about. Girl having multiple boyfriends or a side guy she either frequently or occasional bangs. Having that one guy that got away that she will dump whoever she is currently with in a nanosecond. Married women looking for side action, affairs at work, woman banging their way up the corporate ladder.

 

[Blade Runner]

I’d like a priest to address these realities, but I doubt they ever will. It’s just more ‘keep praying for a spouse’ but the amount of whoring whether it’s blatant or low key is rampant.

Nope, it's not going to happen. I see the priest types at this point in North America, and this isn't a complaint either - it is a matter of fact, reality o the ground. You have new families and converts (let me speak of Orthodoxy but it might happen in Roman Catholicism more now too) but these are usually communities that are smaller and have protestant upbringings, more rural, mostly salt of the earth types that don't have a higher demand (to their credit) and are all-in so to speak on the dedicated and godly life. Then you have the young boomer and older Gen X types. They just see the converts and then give interviews (I've spoken on this) where they opine on why "all the young men" are coming into the church but then can't (won't) make even a guess on why young women don't attend, or are outnumbered 10-1. Finally, you have the boomer and older crowd who were the last remnants of the society that largely, especially when religious, didn't see divorce and got married to women in their early 20s. They either know little of modern feminism and life of women, have daughters already married, or have relatives that are quiet fatties that don't have much of a shot at getting married.

If you are a relatively successful man above 35, you WILL be solicited usually low key by these types in real life. Online with the apps it’s even more blatant. I had a few girls off Hinge ask what car I drove on the 1st date and one was a Catholic convert. Later I found out one was recently laid off and was just looking to mooch. It sets up the wrong dynamic because it feels transactional.

I can tell you the transition as I've talked about the turn of dating apps into sugar in the middle of last decade, or you could see people using them as a double for both attention or "getting paid" for dating (even more). I remember thinking when I was mid 30s that online was so bad that the only online that actually made sense from a rational analysis was sugar, sadly, because it was the only way to actually date younger women and flip the script. They simply had too many options, and still do, quite frankly.

Other things that occur that are rarely talked about. Girl having multiple boyfriends or a side guy she either frequently or occasional bangs. Having that one guy that got away that she will dump whoever she is currently with in a nanosecond. Married women looking for side action, affairs at work, woman banging their way up the corporate ladder.

Yes, monkey branching is out of control That always has occurred to an extent, the issue is now with technology, work, transportation, easy money, etc it's worse than ever.

 

[TheLearningWife]

Prayer absolutely works, otherwise why call yourself a Christian! Yes, it’s a struggle in today’s climate but you only need faith that there is one person out there for you. The other thing is, and it’s a shame in our culture where pairing up is difficult enough and marriage is postponed, the struggle doesn’t even begin until you’re married (and then have kids). It’s a marathon in every sense. Fertility struggles, stillbirths, job loss, children with health problems, family problems, temptations, the nature frictions that arise early on, sickness and/or pregnancy difficulties, financial problems, bad influences, the natural ups and downs… a lot of trials arise over the course of a marriage, what are you going to lean on in these difficult times? You have to start now!

***

As for women asking for allowances, there’s whole online communities/reddits where lost women give each other terrible advice about using men instead of being used, extracting free dinners or whatever. If the area or space you are frequenting has these types, just stop. You’re looking for trouble and it’s gonna find you.

Charlie Kirk did an episode with the Whatever show and one woman was in her early 30s, did only fans, and really, truly thought that men loved her because they liked her photos and sent her emojis. No, her dad was not in her life and her single mother was a “strong, independent” type. Broken families are sadly common today, and these women just cannot see how far off the mark from reality they are. If they knew, like really knew, they would probably be ashamed and horrified because on some level, they want a man and they have this natural, God-given desire to cleave to a man, but it is so distorted. It’s sad, but it’s not a man’s job to save them either.

An allowance is even funnier the more you look into it. What are you getting paid for? Existing? Why? We don’t even give our kids an allowance. They have “jobs”, work they do in exchange for money. 50¢ per chore. I mean if an allowance (salary) is on the table, ok well she might as well do your laundry, grocery shop, cook for you and pack your lunches, run your errands, “etcetera”. Is that like a 1099-Wife? Independent contractor? Haha

***

From Family Life compiled from St. Paisios’s letters and advice:

CHAPTER 1: For a Harmonious Family​

A good start to family life​

—Geronta, a certain young man who has chosen the married life asked me how one properly begins this.

—From the beginning, he should seek to find a good girl who will comfort him, as people are relaxed and find comfort differently with different people. He should not seek to find someone who is rich or beautiful, but above all simple and humble. In other words, he should give more attention to interior rather than exterior beauty. When a girl is a positive person and capable of dealing with men, without having more womanly character than is necessary, this greatly helps the man to find immediate understanding and not a lot of headaches. If she also has fear of God and humility then they are able to join hands and pass the evil current of the world.

The harmony of God is hidden within a diversity of personalities.​

One day a man came to my kalyve and told me that he was very worried because he was not of the same mind with his wife. I saw, however, that there was nothing serious between them. He just had a few rough edges, his wife had a few others, and they couldn’t deal with one another. They needed a little sanding. Take two planks of wood before sanding them. One has a knot here, the other has a knot there; if you try to join the planks there is an empty space left between them. If, however, you sand one a little here and the other a little there, using the same tool, they join perfectly. [2]

Some men tell me: “I don’t see eye to eye with my wife; we have opposite personalities. She has one temperament, I have another! How can God do such strange things? Couldn’t He have arranged a few things so that couples matched, and they were able to live more spiritually?” I tell them, “Don’t you understand that the harmony of God is hidden within a diversity of personalities? Different temperaments actually create harmony. Alas, if you had the same personalities! Think what would have happened if, for example, you both got angry easily: you would destroy your house. Or, consider if both of you had mild temperaments: you would sleep standing up! If you were both stingy you would get along, yes, but you would both end up in hell. Likewise, if both of you were open-handed, would you even be able to keep your house? No. You would disperse everything, and your children would be turned out to the streets. If a spoiled brat marries a spoiled brat, between themselves they get along fine, right? But, one day someone is going kill them! For this reason God arranges it so that a good person marries a spoiled brat, that the latter may be helped. It may be that he or she has a good disposition, but was never instructed correctly when young.”

More here on Orthodox Info

 

[KulturedKaveman]

I had a few girls off Hinge ask what car I drove on the 1st date and one was a Catholic convert.

Heh I’m screwed. I drive garbage. I feel like I owe a lot of my success to being low or no car.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

I don’t think this is real, but if it was the reward for the poor chap who takes on this walking red flag would be her banging her ex anyway and having another racially mixed child. They will then become famous on social media the white couple with the black child. Of course it was a ‘spontaneous’ mutation that caused it. I wish I were kidding.

I crunched the numbers. Most I've dumped is $1550 a month on a child free woman. The come to Jesus moment was that I could live a very respectable life on this for one month in Thailand. I should probably just have saved that. This gals asking for slightly under 5k. Post tax in the US, that's a very respectable salary. You'd have to make 80k a year in the US to cover her completely and have nothing left for your self. Move the Camera, she'd have to make 80k a year to fund her life style in a land where jobs pay 40-60k pre insurance and tax. Maybe she's on the East Coast or West Coast where that 80k a year job pays 110k a year? Either way, a man who can pull this kind of cash isn't putting up with a mixed race kid. If that 5k a month is like that 1550k I mentioned earlier and he can afford to part with it for companionship, he's on the gram sliding in DMs with vacation offers to childless women.

 

[Blade Runner]

Either way, a man who can pull this kind of cash isn't putting up with a mixed race kid. If that 5k a month is like that 1550k I mentioned earlier and he can afford to part with it for companionship, he's on the gram sliding in DMs with vacation offers to childless women.

Precisely, it's just a (continued) worse version of this drawn out, socially acceptable prostitution. I don't think the older people have any clue to what degree women are hoes these days. They are either nerd, anxious, introverts having no sex and doing no drugs or drinking, or the are transactional women that aren't worth anyone's real time. If you're going to "pay" for a woman who is low quality, wouldn't the rational move be to just agree to sugar a younger girl, since you're just paying for sex anyway? What, are you liking that woman or talking to her in some sort of meaningful or normal way? No.

 

[Australia Sucks]

As for women asking for allowances, there’s whole online communities/reddits where lost women give each other terrible advice about using men instead of being used, extracting free dinners or whatever. If the area or space you are frequenting has these types, just stop. You’re looking for trouble and it’s gonna find you.

Oddly enough I actually think women asking for an allowance can be okay and even preferable in the right context.

The alternative is an independent girl boss woman which is a truly awful choice.

In certain more traditional countries its understand that when a man gives a woman an allowance he is entitled to demand a greater level of respect and compliance from her in return which I think is a fair exchange.

And obviously an allowance should be proportionate considering both the objective quality of the woman in question and the man's income and wealth.

For example If the woman is an 18 year old virgin that looks like a Victoria Secrets model and the man is very wealthy than a large allowance is reasonable.

For example if the woman is 35 and ran through then she should just be grateful for whatever her man decides to give her.

 

[Steady Hands]

Mod note: This topic deserves its own thread, given how often related issues are discussed in numerous other threads.

Depending on the situation, one's personality and so forth, women and men seem inclined to approach the topic a bit differently. Women tend to be like:

Meanwhile, their men getting notified about another withdrawal from their shared bank account be like:

Some Suggested Topics

I encourage members to consider discussing the following topics (and more) in this thread:

• The pros and cons for single men of appearing rich and well-travelled on social media.
• The opportunities and risk of sharing resources during courtship and early dating.
• Personal experiences of failures, successes, and lessons learned about money and resources in relationships.
• Sharing media or opinions on the broader sociological landscape; women's typical expectations on who should pay for what; the supposed "pay gap" in the context of relationships, etc.
• Guidance on approaching money and finances according to Christian values and advice from Christian elders.
• How to manage finances in marriage, including when children come along and your little princess demands a pony.

I've started by moving over some recent comments from https://christisking.cc/threads/the-destruction-of-modern-women.59/. If anyone has an objection to their post being moved, please feel free to send me a direct message.