The Destruction of Modern Women

[Blade Runner]

Where she and a lot of women differ from me is they're not religious or interested in becoming religious. So life is all about happiness, feels, "self love", traveling, fun, vibes, happy accidents, the moment, etc., etc.

Correct, largely they aren't serious people or well grounded. They'll always find something wrong with the guy that would be just fine, since the real truth is that they just want to run the show, and that's not realistic for a woman or according to nature, though it's done all the time now. You could say I find something wrong with others but largely that in the modern day is the two hugest reasons why any man would marry, which is a) fat or not in shape and b) youth, something that goes with that, incidentally.

That's all true. I think many women could better see through the propaganda if strong, competent men approached with a clear, appealing offer.

That's what a father and brothers are for. Or what being around a man during your really youthful years is, and discerning you can make it long term with him. Mostly, that doesn't happen. Any strong competent man with a plan that actually exists currently will be neutralized by a society that hates age gaps. Why would a man in his mid 20s have a strong, appealing offer? He hasn't lived long enough and the woman wouldn't really believe it. But she can't get the older guy because propaganda and her friends will block it. Unlike overseas, typically, where it is accepted and seen as practical, or even wise.

are very deluded and think they can land a top 1% man and by the time they realize its not going to happen they are already in their mid 30s

Women don't like hearing it but the collateral damage of giving them just enough to get by means they'll hold out well beyond their years of value. Want proof? All the women in the 50s and 60s married at 20-24. Because they thought about that and were smarter than women now? lol - yet we're born because they had less options. I'm very grateful for that, indeed.

In fact I would say as a man living in the west going overseas is so important in terms of finding a wife that being in the right country and city, etc is like 80% and all other factors combined make up the other 20%.

Exactly, because they mimic how things used to be, as I just pointed out above. It's funny to think that women complaining so much about how women have historically been treated also act like the men of the 1950s and 60s were "studs". You can't have it both ways.

Some men here complain endlessly about how it's so hard these days. Yeah, in some ways. But these men probably never got drafted into a war like some of their ancestors.

The point you keep missing is that there is little ROI for men any longer. The ROI in life can exist with competing realities and hardships of any era. Am I happy I don't have to get sent off to a meat grinder war? Sure. Last century men could just work and be content with a woman that supported them. It wasn't complicated. Now what one has is material comfort to an extent, but even that is just reserved to the upper 20% at best. And nearly all don't have a good woman. Not a tradeoff anyone would take, if you ask men.

Why? It gets boring after a time, since by the mid 40s or certainly the 50s, you've pretty much done it all. Only extremes are left, to be honest, and that's just a flavor (like buying Pappy Van Winkle instead of drinking Buffalo Trace).

If they meet a man who impresses them, they're absolutely going to consider all the marriageable women they know that they might be able to introduce. Elder women in good churches are exceedingly wise, loving, intuitive, and helpful in all kinds of ways.

This is true, the but is that older women can't do anything about the dearth of available women in general, or at young ages that are serious about marriage, etc. That's the rate limiting step, always has been. I'm all for people praying as well, but it's for strength and connection to what really matters in life, God and the eternal. Our praying isn't going to change the population realities or way women are raised/behaved in the society, that takes human will all around, and time (if it even does change). None of this is magic, and it's not supposed to be.

 

[Mrs TexasJenn]

... posted before I was done, editing...

 

[analyst_green]

Any strong competent man with a plan that actually exists currently will be neutralized by a society that hates age gaps. Why would a man in his mid 20s have a strong, appealing offer? He hasn't lived long enough and the woman wouldn't really believe it. But she can't get the older guy because propaganda and her friends will block it. Unlike overseas, typically, where it is accepted and seen as practical, or even wise.

I still think men getting married by their mid 20s is ideal for society at large. It helps us avoid falling into all kinds of sin. A man isn't going to be wealthy at that age, but if he was raised in the Church and developed good, masculine habits he can still be a good husband and father. And women if they're smart will see his potential and take that offer. That's what they did in the past when they weren't all looking for Brad Pitt or DiCaprio. Unfortunately most men under 35 in our times are still very immature due to the cultural programming and brainwashing.

That being said, there is no reason an older man can't or shouldn't find a young wife and do the same if he comes to that maturity level later in life. And for a while in our times, that may need to become more prevalent until the new generation can get their act together. Of course it won't happen unless feminist attitudes are reversed.

I'm all for people praying as well, but it's for strength and connection to what really matters in life, God and the eternal. Our praying isn't going to change the population realities or way women are raised/behaved in the society, that takes human will all around, and time (if it even does change). None of this is magic, and it's not supposed to be.

Collective prayer at large in a nation can definitely change the course of world events. If Sodom had repented and prayed for forgiveness, God wouldn't have destroyed them. Will we get to that level is the question.

And on the individual level, prayer can lead to outcomes that buck the trend. Just like in the great depression, some men were doing very well and even had multiple jobs while the masses were unemployed. God's hand in our lives is greater than any societal trend. Remember He saved the righteous Lot and his family from Sodom while every single other inhabitant burned.

 

[Mrs TexasJenn]

Correct, largely they aren't serious people or well grounded. They'll always find something wrong with the guy that would be just fine, since the real truth is that they just want to run the show, and that's not realistic for a woman or according to nature, though it's done all the time now.

I think most women would absolutely love to surrender to the leadership of a good, strong man. The problem is there aren't many. One of my older brothers was a good, strong man, to such an extent that he never had to approach women - they flocked to him and fought over him.

Why would a man in his mid 20s have a strong, appealing offer? He hasn't lived long enough and the woman wouldn't really believe it.

Why didn't his father and mother teach him how to make a strong, appealing offer? Why didn't they teach him from a young age to prepare to do this? As I mentioned before, foreign men from traditional cultures approach with a strong, appealing offer as early as their 20s - because their fathers and mothers trained and prepared them for this since childhood. I know my dad didn't teach his sons this - but one of them managed, anyway.

The point you keep missing is that there is little ROI for men any longer. The ROI in life can exist with competing realities and hardships of any era. Am I happy I don't have to get sent off to a meat grinder war? Sure. Last century men could just work and be content with a woman that supported them. It wasn't complicated. Now what one has is material comfort to an extent, but even that is just reserved to the upper 20% at best. And nearly all don't have a good woman. Not a tradeoff anyone would take, if you ask men.

So if you don't see the ROI in getting married, don't do it. Why continue to beat the drum about how awful it is to deal with women in your time? Just don't deal with them. Go monk mode and make the best of it.

As for society's aversion to age gaps... in my opinion, Orthodox Christians are some of the best, wisest people on earth. I've been involved with several different churches, gotten to know dozens of wonderful Orthodox couples, and I've never seen any couples with a large age gap. Generally, couples get married in their early 20s. This is God's design and it's how it should work. Any man or woman who missed the boat and marries later in life tends to marry someone around their age. I'm pretty sure the Orthodox fathers and grandfathers I know would be suspicious of an older man approaching their daughter. I don't know exactly why, but I have to trust that these wise Orthodox fathers know something I don't.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

I’m not sure on the the full psychology of these career women, but it’s based on competition like men. Like a meme above what you are offering them (being a good man, good provider) is seen as slavery to most of them. Even though it would woo most women in previous eras. Their minds have been warped.

So your 45k a year marketing job with a boss and early mornings is slavery but doing what you want for a 30k a year allowance is. That logic doesn’t make sense to me.

I kind of want an artistic - alternative ish type (yes insert the meme) just like someone I probably could have married and had kids with had things gone different. I always thought getting out of the rat race to work on a passion project would appeal to those types.

I know that sounds transactional, but I hate to say, the gal that I want someone just like, we split a decade ago. That was the last time I spoke to her. In the time since then all relationships have been a transaction. And having a traditional streak I understand that’s what it is. The guys who go the Passport route are in for a rude awaking. Foreign women, though attractive are EXTREMELY transactional. That beautiful Filipina or Ukrainian woman will be cheating on you and out the door if you can’t take care of her. They never got the Disney 50/50 boss babe propaganda we got in the west.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

It’s usually a bad idea for a child-free person to marry a single parent. Not only are there many statistics about this (that match reality), but some things to consider:

-you may have to spend holidays or major milestones with their ex’s family/ex
-any children you have together will obviously be siblings with the original kids— for better or for worse
-time sharing that starts off as 50/50 can become 100% if the other parent is a nutjob and loses custody or doesn’t want to be around anymore. Some people can’t handle that…
-most times you cannot freely move away when there are custody arrangements, so if your job asks you to relocate or you want to move to be closer to family, you can’t
-depending on your personality and how compatible you are with someone else’s kids, it can range from ok to not feeling at peace at home, like living with strangers
-the reality that your wife has a past with someone else, very hard for some to get over. Are you ok with their old family pictures hanging on the wall? What about maternity/birth photos when they were still together? Are you ok with having step kids in all your family photos? Be honest with yourself.
-pregnancy is obviously a lot more wear & tear on a woman’s body; is she ok with having more children, or as many as you’d like?
-inheritance issues

Marriage and family life is challenging enough as it is the traditional way, adding this element creates a lot of fights/instability/dynamics that make things 10x harder. At least 2 single parents can understand each other, will have to deal with each others ex drama, and have an understanding between them. But coming in as a child-free man is a different dynamic. If the right blend of factors is there it might work, but you’re kind of banking on being the exception. Just my opinion.

Lastly, despite many women’s claims that their ex was “so terrible”, if they had more than 1 kid, it’s like, c’mon. He wasn’t that bad, was he? That’s a pretty deep bond to have with someone else. It’s always going to be there. That person knows your wife better than you do, at least for several years! I have known several divorced women in their 60s+ still pining after their original husband/whatever during their children’s wedding!! And yes they remarried….

Or here is another all too common scenario: you and your wife want to homeschool your kids, but the ex is against it and the stepkids go to public school. Perhaps they are also allowed phones at a young age, media/content that you don’t agree with, etc. If this affects their behavior, especially around your biological children, how are you going to react? What would you do? Are you prepared to handle these type of disagreements, especially when your own biological children are involved?

Thanks for that. Earlier on in this forum I talked about having a no single moms rule. People in my irl kept guilting me about my age (early 30s) and saying I was being too fussy so I lowered the bar and was like … ok if she wants more. As long as we can have some kids that are “ours” I’ll be ok. You reminded me my no single moms decision was pragmatic, not one of ego. Maybe they’ll be nicer to me if I frame it in the way you put it.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

As for society's aversion to age gaps... in my opinion, Orthodox Christians are some of the best, wisest people on earth. I've been involved with several different churches, gotten to know dozens of wonderful Orthodox couples, and I've never seen any couples with a large age gap. Generally, couples get married in their early 20s. This is God's design and it's how it should work. Any man or woman who missed the boat and marries later in life tends to marry someone around their age. I'm pretty sure the Orthodox fathers and grandfathers I know would be suspicious of an older man approaching their daughter. I don't know exactly why, but I have to trust that these wise Orthodox fathers know something I don't.

If the goal is not to deal with baby daddies and family drama what is too age gap-y. Like would a 23 24 year old done with college marrying a 33 34 year old be too much? I can understand a 20 year age gap causing issues but would a 10 be manageable?

Also as an aside I know many couples who have a 20 year age gap. It causes problems later in life. Think about the difference between a 70 year old and a 50 year old. I know so many women where the man starts slowing down and his 70s and the 50s gen Xer woman is pissed.

 

[Read_Lives_of_Saints]

So your 45k a year marketing job with a boss and early mornings is slavery but doing what you want for a 30k a year allowance is. That logic doesn’t make sense to me.

I kind of want an artistic - alternative ish type (yes insert the meme) just like someone I probably could have married and had kids with had things gone different. I always thought getting out of the rat race to work on a passion project would appeal to those types.

I know that sounds transactional, but I hate to say, the gal I want someone just like we split a decade ago. That was the last time I spoke to her. In the time since then all relationships have been a transaction. And having a traditional streak I understand that’s what it is. The guys who go the Passport route are in for a rude awaking. Foreign women, though attractive are EXTREMELY transactional. That beautiful Filipina or Ukrainian woman will be cheating on you and out the door if you can’t take care of her. They never got the Disney 50/50 boss babe propaganda we got in the west.

Maybe already covered, but have you prayed to any specifically marriage-helpful saints?

 

[Mrs TexasJenn]

So your 45k a year marketing job with a boss and early mornings is slavery but doing what you want for a 30k a year allowance is. That logic doesn’t make sense to me.

I kind of want an artistic - alternative ish type (yes insert the meme) just like someone I probably could have married and had kids with had things gone different. I always thought getting out of the rat race to work on a passion project would appeal to those types.

I know that sounds transactional, but I hate to say, the gal that I want someone just like, we split a decade ago. That was the last time I spoke to her. In the time since then all relationships have been a transaction. And having a traditional streak I understand that’s what it is. The guys who go the Passport route are in for a rude awaking. Foreign women, though attractive are EXTREMELY transactional. That beautiful Filipina or Ukrainian woman will be cheating on you and out the door if you can’t take care of her. They never got the Disney 50/50 boss babe propaganda we got in the west.

You're assuming you know how much I made... but you don't. You're also assuming you know what my office experience was like... but you don't.

You're complaining that all your relationships are transactional. Do you think the fact that you talk about marriage in terms of paying her an allowance (something you pay a child, not a wife) has anything to do with that?

 

[analyst_green]

As for society's aversion to age gaps... in my opinion, Orthodox Christians are some of the best, wisest people on earth. I've been involved with several different churches, gotten to know dozens of wonderful Orthodox couples, and I've never seen any couples with a large age gap. Generally, couples get married in their early 20s. This is God's design and it's how it should work. Any man or woman who missed the boat and marries later in life tends to marry someone around their age. I'm pretty sure the Orthodox fathers and grandfathers I know would be suspicious of an older man approaching their daughter. I don't know exactly why, but I have to trust that these wise Orthodox fathers know something I don't.

But this age gap aversion is a modern thing stemming from feminist influence in the west. Never been part of Orthodox tradition in Orthodox countries. I'm not saying age gaps were ever the norm, but they weren't shamed at all and were quite common.

Many times you would have soldiers returning from long wars in their 30s or 40s looking to marry. Or men whose wives died young and are remarrying. It was not unusual at all, and still isn't unusual in Orthodox countries today in Eastern Europe. What is there to be "suspicious" of?

In my parish there are immigrant couples with large age gaps. It's only the Americans that have anything against it because they are first generation Orthodox and still retain many unhealthy Western ideas.

 

[Mrs TexasJenn]

In my parish there are immigrant couples with large age gaps. It's only the Americans that have anything against it because they are first generation Orthodox and still retain many unhealthy Western ideas.

That makes sense - thanks for the explanation.

 

[Blade Runner]

Unfortunately most men under 35 in our times are still very immature due to the cultural programming and brainwashing.

A lot of men and a lot of women are less than ideal, both. That's not the real issue. The issue is the above average and better who do have things right. Most on the web appeal to the least common denominator to strengthen their position, which is a false choice type paradigm. Saying that people aren't raised particularly well and/or are dysgenic is obvious, even if people don't want to admit it (more single moms than ever, more people having kids than ever, etc.)

Collective prayer at large in a nation can definitely change the course of world events. If Sodom had repented and prayed for forgiveness, God wouldn't have destroyed them. Will we get to that level is the question.

I don't doubt it. I see it less possible or probable now though since we don't have proper nation states. Nineveh was a good example also, in the Jonah story.

Why didn't his father and mother teach him how to make a strong, appealing offer?

You aren't getting it. Young women (in the west) largely don't take offers when they feel they are on top of the world. We've said that for years now, but I'll repeat it one last time.

and I've never seen any couples with a large age gap

You're western. It's not common historically or even worldwide. Again, we've talked about this.

But this age gap aversion is a modern thing stemming from feminist influence in the west. Never been part of Orthodox tradition in Orthodox countries. I'm not saying age gaps were ever the norm, but they weren't shamed at all and were quite common.

Totally. I find it bizarre I have to keep bringing it up. Many cultures and nations have this currently as a reality and a practical necessity as well. It's not some novel or pro-male agenda thing to state it.

 

[Shaquilleoatmeal]

 

[GrecoRoman]

So your 45k a year marketing job with a boss and early mornings is slavery but doing what you want for a 30k a year allowance is. That logic doesn’t make sense to me.

Doesn’t make sense to me either, but many modern woman only feel like they are useful if they have a job like a man. It makes them feel like they are doing something, but yes it is very strange. I’m with you.

I kind of want an artistic - alternative ish type (yes insert the meme) just like someone I probably could have married and had kids with had things gone different. I always thought getting out of the rat race to work on a passion project would appeal to those types.

Those types seem rare in religious circles, but it could just be my immediate area. The artistic/alt types have tons of tattoos and follow bands (groupies) and that requires no explanation.

I know that sounds transactional, but I hate to say, the gal that I want someone just like, we split a decade ago. That was the last time I spoke to her. In the time since then all relationships have been a transaction. And having a traditional streak I understand that’s what it is. The guys who go the Passport route are in for a rude awaking. Foreign women, though attractive are EXTREMELY transactional. That beautiful Filipina or Ukrainian woman will be cheating on you and out the door if you can’t take care of her. They never got the Disney 50/50 boss babe propaganda we got in the west.

Oh yes, and these days with shows like 90 day fiancée it is on full display. I also feel it’s a slight concern if she is too into a western man or western culture. Why would that be? Is she repressing the conservative culture she comes from? Note also that in many cultures these women are married before 30 and they are forced to by their father befire they leave home. If she isn’t why not? These are all good screening questions for a foreign woman. It is definitely not the paradise men make it out to be.

 

[starlight]

But this age gap aversion is a modern thing stemming from feminist influence in the west. Never been part of Orthodox tradition in Orthodox countries. I'm not saying age gaps were ever the norm, but they weren't shamed at all and were quite common.

Many times you would have soldiers returning from long wars in their 30s or 40s looking to marry. Or men whose wives died young and are remarrying. It was not unusual at all, and still isn't unusual in Orthodox countries today in Eastern Europe. What is there to be "suspicious" of?

In my parish there are immigrant couples with large age gaps. It's only the Americans that have anything against it because they are first generation Orthodox and still retain many unhealthy Western ideas.

If the goal is not to deal with baby daddies and family drama what is too age gap-y. Like would a 23 24 year old done with college marrying a 33 34 year old be too much? I can understand a 20 year age gap causing issues but would a 10 be manageable?

Also as an aside I know many couples who have a 20 year age gap. It causes problems later in life. Think about the difference between a 70 year old and a 50 year old. I know so many women where the man starts slowing down and his 70s and the 50s gen Xer woman is pissed.

Most people see ten years as the upper end of what is socially acceptable. You can thank the Hugh Hefners of the world and the porn industry for giving age gaps the ick factor.

 

[Blade Runner]

View attachment 24822

Isn't it funny that the way that "having money to do things you want" is understood in a different way by women? I find this really telling. It blows their consumer cover. Financial independence IS that, it's literally do what you want FU money, but they don't "get" that.

 

[Blade Runner]

You can thank the Hugh Hefners of the world and the porn industry for giving age gaps the ick factor.

We've told you this many times, it's got little to do with that, but you still fight it. To describe once again what is going on, it's that women cannot stand that they have highest value when young, and that that doesn't last very long. The second part is key, since of course they love it when life is on easy mode, especially attention wise, from ages 18-23. The essence of feminism is taking women out of young ages, and hating that men value women when young, otherwise, basically no chance for real commitment. Not always, of course, but 98% of the time.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

Maybe already covered, but have you prayed to any specifically marriage-helpful saints?

You know, perhaps I should.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

You're assuming you know how much I made... but you don't. You're also assuming you know what my office experience was like... but you don't.

That was more so in regards to GrecoRoman’s comment vs anything about your office experience. With that being said, most office drones, both men and women, are poorly paid. Especially where I am. Im in an economically depressed area. My sister made it into management and they’re paying the rank and files $18/h and her only marginally better for more work. It’s why the trades are exploding right now where I’m at. Now, I don’t doubt for the three second if you got into a good company and got up there on the totem pole the office experience would be different. I’m just going off those that went the 4 year degree route and weren’t engineers or computer science.

You're complaining that all your relationships are transactional. Do you think the fact that you talk about marriage in terms of paying her an allowance (something you pay a child, not a wife) has anything to do with that?

If I find someone again I might try that line “an allowance is for a child not a girlfriend or wife” when she asks about it after we’re together for a bit, I’m sure that’s going to go well . It’s just something that’s kind of expected in today’s dating world.

 

[starlight]

We've told you this many times, it's got little to do with that, but you still fight it. To describe once again what is going on, it's that women cannot stand that they have highest value when young, and that that doesn't last very long. The second part is key, since of course they love it when life is on easy mode, especially attention wise, from ages 18-23. The essence of feminism is taking women out of young ages, and hating that men value women when young, otherwise, basically no chance for real commitment. Not always, of course, but 98% of the time.

What in my post contradicted any of what you wrote? You realize it isn't either/or? It can be both feminism trying to take young women out of the marriage market and the media promoting sleazy celebrities like Hugh Hefner working in tandem to further tarnish the image of age gaps as sleazy and predatory.