And yet nearly all families with children were started with far, far, less, and many still live comfortably. The idea that you need $1-2 million as a minimum is completely ridiculous.
The Off-Topic and Random Thoughts Thread(Anything Goes!)
- Thread starter JCSteel
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The average family lives on a knifes edge. According to surveys in America 40% of people would struggle to pay for an emergency expense of only $1000. If the man is out of work for 6 months or he or his wife get really sick etc they are up shit creek. Besides most families have both the man and woman working. Wouldn't you prefer your wife to stay at home and look after the kids?
I still think if you want to live in comfort and have financial security as a family household net worth of $1 - $2 million is reasonable for the first world countries and $500,000 - $1 million is comfortable for the middle income and 3rd world countries. You also need to take into account in the future with advancements in AI, robotics and the relentless march of third world immigration into the west work opportunities will be less secure, less profitable and less consistent for most people going forward over the next 10 - 30 years so you need more of a safety net than what was acceptable in the past.
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Correct, yes, I have never had a girlfriend. When I was young, I had no confidence, and when I got out of college and moved from the rural area to the metro area (lived in the burbs, worked in the inner city) I could see things were very bad and it would require a lot of money for me to find what I wanted in life. That was 25+ years ago, I had no idea how those were the "good ol' days" compared to how bad things are here in the USA now due to mass immigration and feminism.
I am far from socially isolated. If I had to guess, I am more socially outgoing and active than anyone else here. I am not bragging, who cares at the end of the day, I am just a super extrovert and work a super social job that allows me to meet and talk with people of all sorts of backgrounds and ways of life.
I do work between 60 and 80 hours a week, 20 of those hours is at a job where I am basically paid to socialize, talking to a wide array of people about all sorts of topics. What is amazing is how easy it is now to get people to open up and admit the economy is a disaster v. the pre-Covid years. I wish others could experience this opportunity to socialize and get out of their comfort zone, it is a true blessing.
All in all, if you believe taking the easy road of pleasure will lead to good results, go ahead. I have followed the stoic path for a while now and the results are really impressive. Mostly women can pick up on it quickly. If a man here is interested in finding a woman, I recommend the stoic path. I don't care to find a woman; I care to get out of the satanic tower of Babel USA or insulate myself as much as I can from it while being stuck here.
Stoicism in today's world is pretty much eating the same foods (natural) and living a humble life style of no fills and pleasure, all exactly like they did in the times of Christ. Most people today live off some form of unnatural junk food, in the super comforts of distraction, which causes a great deal of damage both mentally and physically.
If you were to live like in the times of the Bible, with only healthy food, some fasting, no super comforts, no entertainment distractions, that would be stoicism today. And it forces you to grow and become stronger, because it is natural for the human brain to be bored and get creative and it is natural for the human body to be tested and challenged.
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Is this the part where someone posts the opening scene from Idiocracy? Where the trailer trash types just go on banging out kids while the "intelligent" couple keep analyzing and overthinking and saying "the economy just isn't right to try and raise a child right now" and end up with nothing.
Monetary wealth or the richness of children. At some point you've got to pull the trigger.
Yes, this. I like how you put that: the richness of children. Babies are the real treasure, not fiat currency. There are those of us here on the forum happily taking care of our children along with a good Christian wife and a family centered on Jesus Christ, then there are others who go on and on about how the system is too unfair and a family is just too expensive. About being K selected or R selected (I can never remember which is which). All while getting older and still being alone.
I know which I'd rather be.
This is a selfish viewpoint. Children may bring you happiness, but if you have children now and those children live until age 100 if you cannot give them financial backing in life what will their life be like (when they are adults) when the economy is completely destroyed due to AI, robotics and mass immigration? What will your adult children do then? If you have kids today you need to assume that there will not always be secure full time work in the future and so you need to be wealthy enough to provide some level of financial backing to your children throughout their whole lives. This black pill scenario might not happen but its a real possibility so better to be prepared just in case.
OK then. Go die alone as you have chosen. Just stop trying to drag the rest of us down with you, Wormtongue.
You appear to be saying you either have a coupe $million in net worth before marriage, or your kids are doomed to poverty and a lifetime of failure.
In fact, a couple can be very comfortable if they make more than they spend, and can afford an ordinary decent residence and modest cars. As long as they spend less than they make, they will have savings and growing net worth.
They should hopefully build a net worth of $1-2 million by retirement, including paid off house and investment portfolio. Basically you're saying they need to be able to afford retirement before they even start their lives together, but they only need to be able to retire by retirement age.
Part of your argument seems to be that some worst case future scenario might happen and you'll be destroyed without great wealth. But great wealth can't save you from bad things happening in life. Life is always a risk. Your wife or your kid could get cancer and die no matter how much money you have.
All things considered, the best advice for a young person is to develop a skilled trade or professional training of some kind, then be hard working, reliable, and willing to take responsibility at work. Spend less than you make and save at least six months cost of living as a start. Be active in church and serve the Lord. Find a good Christian wife and start a family. Build your savings and net worth over the years, while also building skills, experience, and income at work.
Trust in God no matter what life brings. Then raise your children to follow this same advice.
Even this isn't easy in today's economy but many people manage to do it. Saving a fortune before marriage is unrealistic for almost everyone.
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Exactly. Any number of bad things might happen if you get married and have children without the vast fortune these guys claim you need. Or even if you have that vast fortune. Is your suffering going to be greater than Job's? I think not.
This trying to talk good men out of starting a family is one of the few things I see on this forum that makes me truly angry. One insidious thing about it is that these guys have limitless time on their hands to post all day about how raising a family is impossible and you might as well consign yourself to dying alone precisely because they have no wife or children to take care of. They do this while unremarkable guys like me are out there supporting a wife and raising our kids. It's just evil.
Nobody wants to hear it because it bursts the bubble of excuses they have built for themselves but I'll say it again....
I have a massive family and everyone gets married young, I'm the outlier, nobody got married when they had millions already they made their bones after they got married. They are all doing just fine.....not getting married because you don't have a job or direction in life that is understandable but not getting married because you don't have millions in the bank already is a very stupid cope excuse for justifying how you personally decided to live. Live however you want but don't put that on others to justify it for yourself.
You are lecturing other people about taking "the easy road of pleasure" (which no one is promoting) while you are on record of saying over and over again on this forum how you don't want to have children because of all the problems that will come from it? Sounds like you are the one seeking comfort.
I'll take your claim that you are more "socially outgoing and active than anyone else here" in the same way of your claim that you are more wealthy than anyone else on this forum.
I'm not share how to square how you are talking about amazing you are doing and how you are a top 1% with your posts on the old forum about how much you hated working and hated your life or you talking about on here about how and how you are happy that you will be dead and "will be gone by then" before the country descends into "crime, death, chaos, and anxiety.
This is why you are being called out for the incongruency of your posts because what you regularly churn out on this forum is the opposite of what someone who is in the position you are claiming (top 1% of wealth, 20 something women regularly drooling over him, social butterfly) would be writing. Add onto this other posts where you appear to have a pretty distorted sense of reality and it further casts doubt on whether the image you are promoting of yourself is accurate.
I probably am more wealthy than most everyone else here. And this has been discussed in great detail in the past, many times. If you want to discuss the topic or the advice I have given, that is great. If you want to attack me personally and drag up old arguments that have already been had on this forum, then that is between you and the mods granting permission to derail a thread like that.You are lecturing other people about taking "the easy road of pleasure" (which no one is promoting) while you are on record of saying over and over again on this forum how you don't want to have children because of all the problems that will come from it? Sounds like you are the one seeking comfort.
I'll take your claim that you are more "socially outgoing and active than anyone else here" in the same way of your claim that you are more wealthy than anyone else on this forum.
I'm not share how to square how you are talking about amazing you are doing and how you are a top 1% with your posts on the old forum about how much you hated working and hated your life or you talking about on here about how and how you are happy that you will be dead and "will be gone by then" before the country descends into "crime, death, chaos, and anxiety.
This is why you are being called out for the incongruency of your posts because what you regularly churn out on this forum is the opposite of what someone who is in the position you are claiming (top 1% of wealth, 20 something women regularly drooling over him, social butterfly) would be writing. Add onto this other posts where you appear to have a pretty distorted sense of reality and it further casts doubt on whether the image you are promoting of yourself is accurate.
I am discussing your advice and suggesting that anyone looking to you as an example to follow in life should consider your advice in light of what I have brought up about you. If someone wants to live a life of working 100+ hours and never being content with the amount of money being made from the hours worked or they plan to never marry and have children and want to live a life of counting down their remaining days until they can be gone and away from the the world of "world of crime, death, chaos and anxiety" I will gladly point them towards your advice. Otherwise, I'll suggest that they look to other people.
Well, the board will be split on this, some agree with me and PM about it, others agree with you. And there is probably no bridging that gap, which is why my advice isn't to live like me, but to look into defeating the co-dependency on pleasure through a stoic way of living.
I would just like thank all the young women, and apparently some men, for continuing to endure this evil, joyless, satanic world so that you can continue to pay your taxes, turn the levers and steadily leave a carbon footprint until your dying breath. I especially would like to thank the young women for sucking off every worthless dipshit you could find, giving them a little bit of solace in these troubling times.
Through your infinite wisdom, you chose to forgo ending your own life to escape this hellscape, opting instead for a life of service. Service to the Jews. Despite this sacrifice, you have sworn to end the same cycle you are stuck in, by not having children and burdening them with such an existence. Their spirits would rejoice if they existed since life is a meaningless clop of stardust.
We salute thee.
Or maybe you need a reality check that you're not the arbiter of existence, and don't know how and what can potentially happen, nor do you need to know.
There's no debate to be had here. No one is forcing anyone to have children, but to speak against doing so like it's some wise decision is truly retarded.
Through your infinite wisdom, you chose to forgo ending your own life to escape this hellscape, opting instead for a life of service. Service to the Jews. Despite this sacrifice, you have sworn to end the same cycle you are stuck in, by not having children and burdening them with such an existence. Their spirits would rejoice if they existed since life is a meaningless clop of stardust.
We salute thee.
Or maybe you need a reality check that you're not the arbiter of existence, and don't know how and what can potentially happen, nor do you need to know.
There's no debate to be had here. No one is forcing anyone to have children, but to speak against doing so like it's some wise decision is truly retarded.
I am in my 30s now and on the current trajectory I am on it is quite feasible I could hit $2 million + net worth before age 40 which is still young enough to get married as a man. I am no genius and if I can do it other men can too. I would rather take early retirement and live comfortably and have the option to start a family (if I decide to do so) with financial comfort rather than financial stress. Plus at least I know if I have children they would be okay even in a jobless future when AI and robots have replaced a lot of jobs.
I do not think anybody on the forum is against having children. The debate is whether to have kids early in life when you are in a financially moderate position or get rich first then have kids (later in life) so you can be sure your kids will always be looked after. Personally I think with the future of increaisng government dystopian control, AI and robotics and gig work, etc the latter option seems wiser to me but nobody can predict what the future will look like 50 years hence and so still I respect those who have the view that you should have kids young.
You would have been better to have married in your mid 20s to a good woman, and had all these years together as a happy family with children. The wisdom of the ages and the reports from men who took this path clearly confirms this. Forgoing a happy family in hopes of stacking $2 million by middle age is not the best advice for young men.
Even if you do eventually marry, you'll have missed out on decades of life with your wife and children. Also, since life does have its risks as you have noted, what if you suffer some setback at age 40, and realized the years that you have already let slip by were your best chance for a happy family?
Better for a man to take the plunge and start a family as a young man, than to hold off due to fear, uncertainty and doubt.
I don't mean to criticize your choices. It's not like you can go back and do it over. I'm criticizing your advice.
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I am not saying you are wrong I am just saying there is more than one way to skin a cat.