USA Secession / Balkanization

[Renzy]

We used to have a thread discussing the possibility of secession / balkanization happening within the US on RVF. I wanted to carry on the discussion here on the new forum. What made me think of it was a video trailer I came across recently for a film about Orania in South Africa.



For those unfamiliar with Orania, it's a town founded by Afrikaners. In the trailer they discuss the reasons they founded Orania in the first place and a lot of the things they bring up have parallels to what I see developing here in the US (and Western Europe). Essentially they accepted that they would not be able to save everything and so instead focussed their efforts on retaining and defending a small part. The narrator talks about how other conservative Afrikaners in the 80s and 90s believed they would be able to take back the country, or there were would be a civil war or things would reach such a breaking point where things couldn't get any worse that people would be compelled to vote for someone (a Trump like figure) with the willpower to fix things, etc. It sounded like all the copes that white conservatives here in the US tell themselves.

With Orania they accepted they wouldn't be able to save everything and instead focussed on triage: keeping what they could. The narrator in the trailer talks about how their biggest problem was and is demographics so their solution was to create an intentional community that was demographically favorable. In the trailer he mentions that Europeans will have to make the same choice or risk losing everything. I see the same thing happening in the US.

 

[SeaEagle]

Thank you for reminding me of this.

I live in Canada, where every visit to a major city reminds me that I am soon to be a minority. I don't want to accept this fate. I have Polish heritage, and I feel like realistically, I have no choice but to move there. I don't want my future children surrounded by Indians, Chinese, and Africans.

I don't want my bloodlines mixed and my children to have no sense of who they are or where they come from.

I know that most other white people in my own country would have my career destroyed and me ridiculed for saying these things out loud.

I'd rather not wait for western countries to Balkanize and enter civil war, or for an authoritarian regime persecute me and destroy my family.

Demographics are indeed destiny, and I don't see a way out of this situation. Burying my head in the sand is no longer an option.

 

[stadtaffe]

Thanks for starting the thread. Was on and off about starting one too, did start one on the old forum once. One thing though the title -

In the trailer he mentions that Europeans will have to make the same choice or risk losing everything. I see the same thing happening in the US.

You've got it called "USA Secession / Balkanization" but are already mentioning South Africa.

Can the mods re-title if they agree to 'Secession thread' so it theoretically covers everywhere secession may happen? There's a few more examples in Europe. Would one include things like Catalonian secession, Scottish independence for example or is the thread more about very modern day deliberate movements? One such example is 'Liberland'

Liberland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Anything which makes more independent countries rather than aglomerating them together under supranational organisations is a good step away from globalisation which has proved to be more harm than good.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Re secession: It is not going to happen while we have a strong federal government.

There will be more bluer blue stares and redder red stares. But beyond that I dunno

 

[Caduceus]

For those unfamiliar with Orania, it's a town founded by Afrikaners. In the trailer they discuss the reasons they founded Orania in the first place and a lot of the things they bring up have parallels to what I see developing here in the US (and Western Europe). Essentially they accepted that they would not be able to save everything and so instead focussed their efforts on retaining and defending a small part. The narrator talks about how other conservative Afrikaners in the 80s and 90s believed they would be able to take back the country, or there were would be a civil war or things would reach such a breaking point where things couldn't get any worse that people would be compelled to vote for someone (a Trump like figure) with the willpower to fix things, etc. It sounded like all the copes that white conservatives here in the US tell themselves.

With Orania they accepted they wouldn't be able to save everything and instead focussed on triage: keeping what they could. The narrator in the trailer talks about how their biggest problem was and is demographics so their solution was to create an intentional community that was demographically favorable. In the trailer he mentions that Europeans will have to make the same choice or risk losing everything. I see the same thing happening in the US.

Is the community walled or gated ?

How do they prevent undesirables (with money) moving in ?

 

[BeatUpTruck]

Thank you for reminding me of this.

I live in Canada, where every visit to a major city reminds me that I am soon to be a minority. I don't want to accept this fate. I have Polish heritage, and I feel like realistically, I have no choice but to move there. I don't want my future children surrounded by Indians, Chinese, and Africans.

I don't want my bloodlines mixed and my children to have no sense of who they are or where they come from.

I know that most other white people in my own country would have my career destroyed and me ridiculed for saying these things out loud.

I'd rather not wait for western countries to Balkanize and enter civil war, or for an authoritarian regime persecute me and destroy my family.

Demographics are indeed destiny, and I don't see a way out of this situation. Burying my head in the sand is no longer an option.

I also live in Canada. I think the upcoming problems run a lot deeper than simply not wanting to be a minority in our own country. I can’t help but think there will be a profound drop in the standard of living and society in Canada. You can’t flood a country with people who haven’t been able to thrive in lands they’ve inhabited for thousands of years and expect them to maintain Canada at the same level it was when they parachuted in to it.
I don’t foresee good things for the future of Canada. How low will things go I wonder? Will we have to bribe the African doctor to get him to do his job and treat your child? Here’s one from Nigeria complaining that Canada sucks because you have to actually work for every dollar you are paid and that leaves no time to socialize on the clock. His words not mine… and when he ends up with people looking over his shoulder to make sure he’s doing his job he cries racism.



I understand that the fertility rate in Canada has plummeted to levels that are unable to sustain the population and would be disastrous for our economy if left unchecked. I realize that we Canada needs immigration to replace consume and replace the aging work force. We do not however need to be bringing in half a million immigrants per year primarily from the third world. It looks to me like a greedy agenda perpetuated by power hungry corporations who control a large part of the western world.


I’m sure Jewish central bankers have something to do with it too. They’re probably giddy as they watch what Europeans accomplished being demolished by demographics in every white country of the world.

But to stay on topic… I think the best path forward would be a balkanization. The best scenario would be for whites to carve out their enclaves and thrive independently. Perhaps it would be feasible for a group of people to pool their resources and buy a large tract of land to build a community. It could be done right on the American border while like minded yanks purchase the land on the other side of the border. We’ll set up industries and truly educate the children in what matters instead of indoctrinating them in a cesspool of woke victimhood. As the community thrives we could continue to purchase adjacent land and build a militia with arms supplied by the American side… until one day the city state is strong enough to challenge the nation and gain independence.

I always keep in mind that white men have always been a tiny minority of the world’s population, roughly four percent, yet they sailed around the world subjugating every one they encountered, on foreign soil nonetheless. I think that’s something the “minorities” shouldn’t forget either, if they were smart.

 

[stadtaffe]

Is the community walled or gated ?

How do they prevent undesirables (with money) moving in ?

Not sure about gates or walls around Orania, would say almost definitely as almost everything in South Africa has walls topped with electrified wires or barbed wire it is universal. Barely rates a mention there whether there are prison-like walls around something with electric wires and cameras it goes without saying. Of course mainly to keep people out but I have also seen it in some game parks to keep animals in or out.

Orania is very geographically isolated so it is not like the wrong element can can just drive a small distance and be at the gates. Maybe another member is more knowledgeable, I didn't study the map but that's what I heard, geographic isolation. So it can almost be ignored, they keep to themselves and don't bother anyone.

 

[Christos_NIKA]

I think the thread title should be changed to be more global. Perhaps something like "White (or Conservative/Christian) Secessionism/Parallel Society". The Amish have already done it, so why can't others?

 

[eradicator]

I think the thread title should be changed to be more global. Perhaps something like "White (or Conservative/Christian) Secessionism/Parallel Society". The Amish have already done it, so why can't others?

The Amish are an interesting group. When shtf , if nuclear war erupts, or if suddenly the electrical grid collapses and no longer works, they wouldn’t even know

I mean why would they, they aren’t affected. They grow their own food, build their own barns (which stand for hundreds of years),

 

[budoslavic]

 

[TheLoneReader]

S

The Amish are an interesting group. When shtf , if nuclear war erupts, or if suddenly the electrical grid collapses and no longer works, they wouldn’t even know

I mean why would they, they aren’t affected. They grow their own food, build their own barns (which stand for hundreds of years),

So true! I’ve often joked that only two things will survive nuclear war: the Amish and the cockroaches!

 

[BeatUpTruck]

I also live in Canada. I think the upcoming problems run a lot deeper than simply not wanting to be a minority in our own country. I can’t help but think there will be a profound drop in the standard of living and society in Canada. You can’t flood a country with people who haven’t been able to thrive in lands they’ve inhabited for thousands of years and expect them to maintain Canada at the same level it was when they parachuted in to it.
I don’t foresee good things for the future of Canada. How low will things go I wonder? Will we have to bribe the African doctor to get him to do his job and treat your child? Here’s one from Nigeria complaining that Canada sucks because you have to actually work for every dollar you are paid and that leaves no time to socialize on the clock. His words not mine… and when he ends up with people looking over his shoulder to make sure he’s doing his job he cries racism.



I understand that the fertility rate in Canada has plummeted to levels that are unable to sustain the population and would be disastrous for our economy if left unchecked. I realize that we Canada needs immigration to replace consume and replace the aging work force. We do not however need to be bringing in half a million immigrants per year primarily from the third world. It looks to me like a greedy agenda perpetuated by power hungry corporations who control a large part of the western world.


I’m sure Jewish central bankers have something to do with it too. They’re probably giddy as they watch what Europeans accomplished being demolished by demographics in every white country of the world.

But to stay on topic… I think the best path forward would be a balkanization. The best scenario would be for whites to carve out their enclaves and thrive independently. Perhaps it would be feasible for a group of people to pool their resources and buy a large tract of land to build a community. It could be done right on the American border while like minded yanks purchase the land on the other side of the border. We’ll set up industries and truly educate the children in what matters instead of indoctrinating them in a cesspool of woke victimhood. As the community thrives we could continue to purchase adjacent land and build a militia with arms supplied by the American side… until one day the city state is strong enough to challenge the nation and gain independence.

I always keep in mind that white men have always been a tiny minority of the world’s population, roughly four percent, yet they sailed around the world subjugating every one they encountered, on foreign soil nonetheless. I think that’s something the “minorities” shouldn’t forget either, if they were smart.

MSN

looks like theres some in Germany that are a step ahead of us.

 

[Rax Moscow]

Re secession: It is not going to happen while we have a strong federal government.

There will be more bluer blue stares and redder red stares. But beyond that I dunno

It's not even that simple; it's often rural vs city, and sometimes even block by block.
There are only like 7 states that are even relevant in national elections, due to the electoral college (and the fact that there aren't really "red" or "blue" states.

But yeah, secession, been there, done that, no one thought there would be any (legal) problem with it back then, but it turns out the feds will kill you if you try to do it so that's pretty much out.

And we have the strongest and most oppressive national government in history.

 

[Dusty]

 

[Pointy Elbows]

Boston Mayor Michelle Wu is hosting an elected-of-color party and didn't want those nasty whites invited. Her aid messed up and sent the invite to the whole city council. The petty, vindictive nature of minorities that "made it" in white majority locations... Someone said that whites will really have NO friends due to the petty resentment of all minorities - including asians and jews who regularly score higher on metrics like income, education, etc. Unfortunately, this observation keeps being proven true.

Maybe we should re-caption the thread to USA secession/balkanization/segregation.

Edit - Even the white liberals on the city council were offended. Guess they thought they should make the cut since they are the "nice whites," not like those dirty peasant MAGAs. They'll never learn.

It is events like this that give some merit to the old line - nothing whites can do will ever yield favor with minorities, as we will always be out-group. At least being a proud white might lend some in-group preference amongst our kin and kind.

MSN

 

[eradicator]

When the end comes it will just be from running out of money

 

[N°6]

I first heard of Orania in the late 1990s - a few years after the South African government, which was approaching sub-super power status by acquiring the bomb, gave the country to the decedents of migrants of west Africa who sought work in the gold and diamond mines. They became envious of the whites and the Communists explained that Europeans took their land.

The South African government abandoned a political settlement to give whites a small country on a coast because this would have been rejected by the ANC which wanted ALL of South Africa.

Why the intolerance of whites running a small country in Africa which is a huge continent?

My point? Rhodesia - a self-governing colony within the British Empire with its own army, tax raising powers and an air force with jet engines was forced to hand it all over to tribes whose fertility rates boomed under European governance and medicine. Same with South Africa but it had the diamonds, gold and the atom bomb. The Rhodesians fought a war over it but the South Africans voted their country into oblivion to play international rugby football union again.

Yet there was no tolerance afforded to the European on the least densely populated continent on Earth. How are things going to be better in dense London or New York?

Orania is somewhere between an Indian reservation and Mormon Utah.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

 

[cognitive dissonance 73]

I first heard of Orania in the late 1990s - a few years after the South African government, which was approaching sub-super power status by acquiring the bomb, gave the country to the decedents of migrants of west Africa who sought work in the gold and diamond mines. They became envious of the whites and the Communists explained that Europeans took their land.

The South African government abandoned a political settlement to give whites a small country on a coast because this would have been rejected by the ANC which wanted ALL of South Africa.

Why the intolerance of whites running a small country in Africa which is a huge continent?

My point? Rhodesia - a self-governing colony within the British Empire with its own army, tax raising powers and an air force with jet engines was forced to hand it all over to tribes whose fertility rates boomed under European governance and medicine. Same with South Africa but it had the diamonds, gold and the atom bomb. The Rhodesians fought a war over it but the South Africans voted their country into oblivion to play international rugby football union again.

Yet there was no tolerance afforded to the European on the least densely populated continent on Earth. How are things going to be better in dense London or New York?

Orania is somewhere between an Indian reservation and Mormon Utah.

You claim to be originally from Zimbabwe. Even the Ndebele people (the country's second largest ethnic group) that had been victims of genocide were unable to get any international support for a separate home land for themselves.
A separate "Orania" equally would receive no international support.
Your map is misleading - many of the areas that seems empty are empty for a reason - they are uninhabitable. Deserts are sparsely populated because of that.

As far as South Africa goes- it has been a violent land for a very long time.
Many forget that the real Afrikaner ("Boer") genocide did not take place in the post-Apartheid ear (since 1994).
During the Boer Wars (1880-1902) and unknown number of Boer civilians died in the fighting, but mostly perished in the concentration camps set up by the British authorities.
Just for some perspective.

 

[TruckDriver9]

Boston Mayor Michelle Wu is hosting an elected-of-color party and didn't want those nasty whites invited. Her aid messed up and sent the invite to the whole city council. The petty, vindictive nature of minorities that "made it" in white majority locations... Someone said that whites will really have NO friends due to the petty resentment of all minorities - including asians and jews who regularly score higher on metrics like income, education, etc. Unfortunately, this observation keeps being proven true.

Radicalized in the streets, colonized in the sheets.

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