The Work-Life Balance Thread

bubs

Protestant
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Work-Life balance has been a kinda trendy "buzzword" thing mentioned in the American workplace for the last 5-10 years (maybe longer?). Share any thoughts, experience, opinions, ask relevant questions etc.

I know things seem to be trending towards a less than 40 hr. work week as the norm. in post-pandemic US (not sure this is sustainable for the US economy?), but I still think both employers and employees need a clear yardstick for their work culture in order to plan associated workload to and for the employee to know what the expectations are so they know if this is the job and workload that works for them.

Just some ideas for thread conversation (I'll be glad to share many thoughts a little later once the thread gets going, I have lots). What is your personal work / life balance (hrs per day for work vs. hrs. for "life"? Weekly max for work without feeling burnout of missing out on "life" enjoyment/sanity? What assumptions or modes of operation have you found that should be focused on to make work/life balance work very well for both the employer and the employee?
 
Great thread, and as I grow older and feel more burnout from 7-day work weeks, I think about this a lot.

We were not meant to sit in artificial light, 40 to 60 hours a week, staring at a blue light screen and getting little to no movement. It seems very bad for our health. But this is how a majority of Americans live. The rest of their time playing bus driver for their kids to endless activities and stressing over the day to day in their little free time. All of this under the pressure of the "next round of layoffs" and increased property taxes and insurance costs. It is no wonder most 40 year old Americans look exhausted, beaten down, and just hopeless. Their knowledge of history, where they come from, philosophy, religion, or any of the most important things is almost zero.

Can we allow people to work 30 hours a week? Yes, certainly. We could have 20-hour work weeks and be more productive. The problem isn't work, it is the amount of resources sub 90 IQ people suck out of a system. If we were not trying to babysit the third world and low IQ people, we could work 20 to 30 hours a week, have time with our kids, and learn the history and philosophy our great ancestors handed down to us. Instead, we have to work long hours to make up for the unproductive low IQ people, who are breeding like rabbits and causing more and more destruction across the globe.

It feels like the new phrase "work-life balance" is really an excuse so that women and DEI hires can put in minimum effort, on a salary pay scale, and still be seen as "productive" by the people actually doing their work. Case in point, they are both saying "we want our employees to have a work-life balance" while needlessly dragging them back into the office and killing moral and destroying their newfound work-life balance thanks to Covid. This happened where I work, and work moral is just destroyed. All sort of hard working people, who went above and beyond, who worked late nights and weekends, all to prove working from home would be more productive, and only to be crapped on and told "we don't care, you have to come into the office". No one cares anymore.

Anyway, the excuse of "work-life balance" will be reserved for women and DEI hires when they cannot perform at the level expected out of White and Asian men. The women will spend half their time, in the pointless office, either doing nothing, gossiping, or playing puritan mom, keeping track of when others come into and leave the office. The DEI hires will just come and go as they please and their work allocated. The White and Asian men will quietly be required to work 50 to 60 hours a week to make up for it. If they don't like that, they can be replaced by another competent hire and the grind into the third world continues.

I'm glad I could see this coming 25 years ago and started to work 7 days a week back then and save every penny. I am honestly glad I didn't have kids in the USA, at least not without being semi-retired first. The nightmare dystopian third world hellhole is here and it will be required the very people hurt by it the most and demanded to keep it standing up.
 
Work-life balance has less to do with working fewer hours per week, than with having sufficient number of vacation days in the year. America is the only country that has zero guaranteed vacation days. Every single developed country has typically 25-30, except for Japan and South Korea, which have slightly fewer. I know from long experience in western Europe that even though they have 4 weeks of vacation guaranteed by EU law, at least the countries north of the Alps work long hours with frequent overtime. They go by the motto "work hard, play hard". It seems in America, at least from the stats I've seen, that white collar workers waste a LOT of time in the office. In my opinion it is to be expected. If you can't take enough vacation and let your body and mind relax sufficiently, your work will suffer, and your body will "check out" one way or another, either through day dreaming or illness. Then, if you start to slack off from exhaustion, you get fired for "underperforming". While Americans will be quick to mock the rest of the world for being "lazy", the fact is that US government employees and military have gotten 30 days of vacation since forever (isn't that just evil "socialism"?). Why is so much vacation OK for them, but the rest of America is supposed to suffer with little or none?

 
A lot of boomers act like you're some lazy communist for wanting 4-6 weeks of pto. The funny thing is most younger conservatives are way more right-wing than the boomers are. We just don't want to waste our lives at work like they did.

Same for working ot. There has to be an incentive for being there or I'm going to enjoy my time off. I remember working with plumbers. They make good money so working a lot of ot puts them in a higher tax bracket, and any extra money from working more doesn't even make it worth it because the government steals so much of it.
 
A lot of boomers act like you're some lazy communist for wanting 4-6 weeks of pto. The funny thing is most younger conservatives are way more right-wing than the boomers are. We just don't want to waste our lives at work like they did.

Same for working ot. There has to be an incentive for being there or I'm going to enjoy my time off. I remember working with plumbers. They make good money so working a lot of ot puts them in a higher tax bracket, and any extra money from working more doesn't even make it worth it because the government steals so much of it.
It's true. You need to find the balance of income vs. taxation vs. free time. At some point, all that overtime is just lifetime wasted for just a few bucks more per week.
 
Work-life balance has less to do with working fewer hours per week, than with having sufficient number of vacation days in the year. America is the only country that has zero guaranteed vacation days. Every single developed country has typically 25-30, except for Japan and South Korea, which have slightly fewer. I know from long experience in western Europe that even though they have 4 weeks of vacation guaranteed by EU law, at least the countries north of the Alps work long hours with frequent overtime. They go by the motto "work hard, play hard". It seems in America, at least from the stats I've seen, that white collar workers waste a LOT of time in the office. In my opinion it is to be expected. If you can't take enough vacation and let your body and mind relax sufficiently, your work will suffer, and your body will "check out" one way or another, either through day dreaming or illness. Then, if you start to slack off from exhaustion, you get fired for "underperforming". While Americans will be quick to mock the rest of the world for being "lazy", the fact is that US government employees and military have gotten 30 days of vacation since forever (isn't that just evil "socialism"?). Why is so much vacation OK for them, but the rest of America is supposed to suffer with little or none?

Yes, lets talk about Paid Time Off (PTO) and vacation days as a starting point. What is Paid Time Off / Vacation?

IMO, it is a fringe benefit given by an employer to an employee which guarantees full pay to an employee when they work less than x hrs. in a given work week or x hours bi-weekly if that timeframe is desired by the employer for greater flexibility of the employees.

For argument sake, lets say the company operates on Sunday to Saturyday 40 hr weekly full time assumption and PTO vs comp time is assessed each week and then reset the following week.

If you are a salaried employee, and you need put in to take off 2 hrs on a Thursday afternoon (for whatever) and you only had to work 38hrs that week, then the employee should charge 2 hrs of their PTO balance in orde to get full pay.

Lets say Friday morning after taking off early on Thursday afternoon, the boss asked for an unforeseen ad-hoc request with a deadline of Monday morning 8am and the employee had to work 2 hours extra either Friday evening or on Saturday monring to take care of it. Now that employee ended up having to work 40hrs for that week and no Paid Time Off fringe benefit by the employee should be required to be taken as they provided their 40 hours of work to the company for that week.

So this is where employers can really exploit this fringe benefit to employees while still making the company look like good guys/gals. The supervisors can project the image of "if something comes up during the normal working hours, I'm very understanding and caring and give people this flexibility to leave work and take care of their life issues, if they need a mental break (whatever reason). But if that employee is constantly having to work greater than 40 hrs a week just to "escape" for 2 hrs. on a Thursday, then there really is no Paid Time Off. The only fringe benefit is the flexibility to work flexible hours.

That brings back to the need for clear definition that Vacation, Sick or PTO is defines as paid time off for when you work less than X hours in a given timeperiod as defined by the company. If not, then its ripe for exploitation.

And another issue....what if when you take time off for a week vacation (assume 40hrs of leave and not working on vacation) and no one covers your workload, but your supervisor and/or clients still expect deadlines to be achieved for the week that you are away and week you return without delays? Well if its "on you" then you are probably working 60-80hrs the week before and perhaps the week after your vacation just to give yourself ability to take off for 5 days in a row without having to work. But most people in this situation will do some bare-minimum work while on their vacation, just to avoid the stress of returning to work to see if they can pull of the deadlines in time while also working 60-80hrs to get it done.

And for those hourly employees (that would get 1.5x pay over 40 hrs of work in a week) IMO, if you get a PTO fringe benefit by an employer then any PTO hours charged that week should count towards your 40 and any hrs in total beyond 40 hrs you should count as 1.5x pay or you don't have to use your PTO hours that week (let employee choose).

Example: You are approved to go to the dentist on a Wednesday. You plan to charge 2 hrs. of your PTO balance to go to the dentist. On Friday morning, boss says we have a shipment coming in Friday afternoon, and need you to stay extra to unload the truck, so you work 2 additional hours on Friday unanticipated. You worked 40 hrs that week in total now, so you should either be allowed to not charge those 2 PTO hours against your balance or you should get 2 hours of 1.5x pay...one or the other.
 
Good thread. I was recently taking about this with my father, a typical boomer type of guy who assures me that my generation is "entitled" and whatnot.

My first point of discussion was to point out the link between the lack of time off and the American labor unions resistance to technological advances. For example, the Swiss have a fantastic economy with high employment, yet they take the entire summer off every year + several weeks for religious holidays throughout the year. How are they able to do this? I argued that they have embraced high technology like automation, and have the highly skilled labor force to match. So the efficiencies gained by this allow them time off.

In the U.S, you have the longshoreman unions actively fighting AGAINST automation. Sure, that means they have stable jobs, but it also means less overall efficiency and like @It_Is_My_Time pointed out, the producers of our economy end up bearing that cost and having to work more to subsidize the longshoreman's form of low skilled labor. Multiply this across every industry, and you can see why American's aren't able to afford the time off as other highly advanced economies. The whole thing is wildly stupid... it would be like ancient peasants organizing to resist the use of tractors because that takes away their manual labor jobs in the fields. Instead of accepting tractor technology, taking the extra time afforded by the use of tractor technology to learn new skills, and then employing the technology themselves. But no, our current economy is dictated by the lower IQ peasants resisting tractor technology, which brings EVERYBODY down. Totally stupid and backwards.

Secondly, our "growing economy" mandates that people work themselves to death. When a population's birthrate is as low as ours is, one would think that goods and services would become cheaper because there is less demand (especially in the housing market)... Obviously the bankers and property holders don't want this, hence the mass immigration agenda. Artificially juice up our population and economy via immigration. JD Vance very astutely pointed this out in the VP debate when he talked about housing prices and the obvious consequences of injecting 30M new people into the market every 4 years.

See how this game works? We don't get to dictate our work-life balance because we have rejected technology in favor of "Stable employment," and have rejected sound national border policy in favor of propping up the finical system. We get what we deserve (we being the American people). With the amount of technology available to us today, people should be able to work less than ever before. Yet not until we realize we don't get to have our cake and eat it too can this become reality.
 
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Work-Life balance has been a kinda trendy "buzzword" thing mentioned in the American workplace for the last 5-10 years (maybe longer?). Share any thoughts, experience, opinions, ask relevant questions etc.

I know things seem to be trending towards a less than 40 hr. work week as the norm. in post-pandemic US (not sure this is sustainable for the US economy?), but I still think both employers and employees need a clear yardstick for their work culture in order to plan associated workload to and for the employee to know what the expectations are so they know if this is the job and workload that works for them.

Just some ideas for thread conversation (I'll be glad to share many thoughts a little later once the thread gets going, I have lots). What is your personal work / life balance (hrs per day for work vs. hrs. for "life"? Weekly max for work without feeling burnout of missing out on "life" enjoyment/sanity? What assumptions or modes of operation have you found that should be focused on to make work/life balance work very well for both the employer and the employee?
Personally I would try and live below my means and not keep up with the Jonses, I think this is one of the main reasons why people have to work so much to fund their lifestyle, rather buy 2nd hand cars and used furniture etc I would try and be self employed so I can work from home as much as possible, so I can spend as much time as possible with my family, in nature, attend church and have time for myself and others. Outdoor contract work also not bad, I really dislike sitting down office jobs those are the worst for me.
 
Work-life balance has less to do with working fewer hours per week, than with having sufficient number of vacation days in the year. America is the only country that has zero guaranteed vacation days. Every single developed country has typically 25-30, except for Japan and South Korea, which have slightly fewer. I know from long experience in western Europe that even though they have 4 weeks of vacation guaranteed by EU law, at least the countries north of the Alps work long hours with frequent overtime. They go by the motto "work hard, play hard". It seems in America, at least from the stats I've seen, that white collar workers waste a LOT of time in the office. In my opinion it is to be expected. If you can't take enough vacation and let your body and mind relax sufficiently, your work will suffer, and your body will "check out" one way or another, either through day dreaming or illness. Then, if you start to slack off from exhaustion, you get fired for "underperforming". While Americans will be quick to mock the rest of the world for being "lazy", the fact is that US government employees and military have gotten 30 days of vacation since forever (isn't that just evil "socialism"?). Why is so much vacation OK for them, but the rest of America is supposed to suffer with little or none?

In Europe I know certain countries they have siesta time which can be a few hours lunch break, you sit down and eat with a knife and fork, you sometimes go home and even take a nap I heard.
 
Yes, southern Spain, Italy, France, and maybe parts of Portugal. It's also pretty common in the hot Muslim countries.
When I visited Portugal during siesta businesses actually closed their doors ans mostly the restaurants were only open, my cousin knew an entrepreneur he went to Portugal and it was quite funny he eventually left Portugal because he would get invited to these 2-3 hour "business" lunches at restaurants and they would talk about everything else except the business related stuff, have great meals and wine and then leave haha, he never scored any business. Thats their culture, food and being social.
 
I agree that the 40 hour work week is being phased out. What's the difference between working 32 hours, 40 hours, 56 hours if you're still going to be a perpetual renter who gives your entire paycheck to the uber-wealthy who've monopolized all the property?

Personally, I still put in 40 hours. Sometimes I put in over twice that. What other people do is one thing, but I do what works for me. I still take time off to spend time with my family, go to church, see friends, and just to rest.
 
I agree that the 40 hour work week is being phased out. What's the difference between working 32 hours, 40 hours, 56 hours if you're still going to be a perpetual renter who gives your entire paycheck to the uber-wealthy who've monopolized all the property?
Have you seen the Musk video where he states that "in the future" people will work only on things they like to do (not much)?
 
Have you seen the Musk video where he states that "in the future" people will work only on things they like to do (not much)?
Is AI or robotics going to be able to clean a truck stop restroom then? Or I guess if we follow Andrew Yangs forecast, truck stops all together will disappear due to self driving trucks. Is there a link to the Musk video?
 
Have you seen the Musk video where he states that "in the future" people will work only on things they like to do (not much)?
This would the now if we were not both baby-sitting the third world and paying for them to overpopulate the earth and destroy all of the planet with their ways of low IQ living.
 
Is AI or robotics going to be able to clean a truck stop restroom then? Or I guess if we follow Andrew Yangs forecast, truck stops all together will disappear due to self driving trucks. Is there a link to the Musk video?
It looks like the only way FSD will really "work" (cameras, etc ... what about fog, dark, rain etc) is if ALL cars are electronic, like Johnny Cab in Total Recall.
 
So if I had the perfect work/life balance (assuming the work you do isn't enjoyable, but its what you you are good at and can be employed at to provide your lifestyle) it would probably look something like this:

- 3-5 hrs. maximum work per day. For me I can usually go fine with 5 hours of intense mental work and feel no drain/ill effects. Probably 3 hrs max of hard physical work each day (I'm in 50's and have some arthritis issues going on so usually when I go beyond 3 hrs I'm hurting pretty bad later in the day/over night). But reality is I have usually at minimum 7hrs of intense mental work in my job during any give day with intermitten breaks

- 1 hr of light homestead/house "to do's" each day

- 1-2 hr of exercise (sports, cardio, weightlifting, walking, hiking etc)

- 1-2 hrs of socializing with friends and family

1-2 hrs of various hobbies of interest (that don't fit in above catagories)

1-2 hrs. of driving around, running errands etc (can listen to music and/or podcasts while driving)

Maybe 3-4 hours of "vegging out/resting" Watching various screens of mindless entertainment. Fooling around on this website counts here as well. However I rarely can sit for more than 1.5-2 hrs max in any one sitting. Need to get up and do something else for a while.

Some gaps in there to get to 16 hrs of non-sleeping time, but that seems to be a pretty good standard that I could work with if I broke up the day into ratios. Everyone has different work/rest/play thresholds, so there is no right or wrong answer here. Just how each individual is wired.
 
If I have to work 40 hrs a week (white collar/desk job), and there is scheduling flexibility, my preference is to work longer hours early in the week and be able to cut out early on Fridays. If some work crisis pops up later in the week requiring a few hours of OT, I’d much rather work a few hrs on Saturday morning vs Friday evening. I just really despise long work days. 2-4 hrs on a Saturday morning has no negative impact to my well being.
 
If I have to work 40 hrs a week (white collar/desk job), and there is scheduling flexibility, my preference is to work longer hours early in the week and be able to cut out early on Fridays. If some work crisis pops up later in the week requiring a few hours of OT, I’d much rather work a few hrs on Saturday morning vs Friday evening. I just really despise long work days. 2-4 hrs on a Saturday morning has no negative impact to my well being.
There are already countries that are experimenting with the 4 day work week. Some of them doing 4 ten hour days and some of them even trialing 4 eight hour days. I think a lot more companies should be offering 4 ten hour days. I honestly don't think its hard for them to do. It just needs a cultural change.
 
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