This perfectly describes Paulie’s character: “Paulie takes full responsibility and says that it’s not his fault”
The Sopranos Discussion/Appreciation Thread (Renewed)
- Thread starter Murdock
- Start date
The fact that Phil looks just like his comare's dad is hilarious.
Now that’s interesting. I just figured the guys that Paulie hired screwed up completely and whacked the wrong guy and the goomar was someone else entirely, not Phil’s goomar.
It's played for laughs but it reinforces the Oedipal themes that run throughout the show.
Love this scene. Tony's subconscious knows the truth, but his conscious mind lies and covers up the truth. The truth is he hates his dad because his dad destined him for this life, and he hates himself because he is doing the same thing to AJ.
But this scene is one of Tony's more redeeming moments. He doesn't want AJ to end up like him, even though AJ is trying to be like him by seeking revenge on Junior. I love the last season because it shows what so much of the earlier seasons tell.
The concept of fate vs free will is central to Oedipus Rex. When the show references Oedipus, that is what it is going for. The psychoanalytical side is only one facet.
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Aj has a decent arc in the last season. Essentially he is the dunce of the show for 5 and a half seasons. Then gets the suicide attempt and accidentally burns up his car while banging a supermodel with an eating disorder
And then he wants to join the military but ends up working for little carmine instead and seems, happy?
Godfatherparttwo, what do you think of the theory that Rhiannon is an agent for the New York mafia. Placed in the mental institution to meet Aj specifically and ultimately to help kill Tony
She is on the couch with Aj when the parents are talking about going to Holsteins later that evening and inform Aj
They play the song Rhiannon in the final episode
There’s a line in the song “Rhiannon rings like a bell, wouldn’t you love to love her” and any time someone opens the door to Holsteins the bell rings and Tony looks up
Counterpoint : anyone , any assassin could have followed Tony that day to Holsteins to kill him.
Arguably so many people wanted to kill Tony and had a motive to, someone from New York, someone like Patsy or Paulie from Jersey, or well, anyone that he’s robbed or screwed over the years
Here’s the Rhiannon theory
Also Rhiannon is like 16 or 17 here, why would she even care about mafia wars, much less be an agent for New York in an elaborate hit. Teenagers care about other things .
And then he wants to join the military but ends up working for little carmine instead and seems, happy?
Godfatherparttwo, what do you think of the theory that Rhiannon is an agent for the New York mafia. Placed in the mental institution to meet Aj specifically and ultimately to help kill Tony
She is on the couch with Aj when the parents are talking about going to Holsteins later that evening and inform Aj
They play the song Rhiannon in the final episode
There’s a line in the song “Rhiannon rings like a bell, wouldn’t you love to love her” and any time someone opens the door to Holsteins the bell rings and Tony looks up
Counterpoint : anyone , any assassin could have followed Tony that day to Holsteins to kill him.
Arguably so many people wanted to kill Tony and had a motive to, someone from New York, someone like Patsy or Paulie from Jersey, or well, anyone that he’s robbed or screwed over the years
Here’s the Rhiannon theory
Also Rhiannon is like 16 or 17 here, why would she even care about mafia wars, much less be an agent for New York in an elaborate hit. Teenagers care about other things .
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They asked David Chase about that theory in an episode of Talking Sopranos and he just laughed. I don't think the theory is true, it feels too contrived. I think the writers wanted to plant a lot of seeds so that there are multiple ways of seeing who would've had Tony whacked, it's not easy just to pin it on one person, it could've been anyone. We see the guy who would've shot Tony but we don't really know anything about him. Some people connect him to Eugene because he also wears a members only jacket.
Eugene kills this guy for Chris in the first episode of S6, whilst wearing his m.o jacket. He does it in a restaurant, playing upon The Godfather, and like the final scene. There's also a football theme that connects this to the final scene. He also has the same initials as Tony Soprano. I wasn't sure but then I remembered that Tony is called Teddy, when he commits his first on-screen murder.
I never made this connection but David Chase pointed this out. Notice how Tony shakes his head at AJ for paying attention to the war. Tony is doing the opposite, he is not paying attention. He's in the middle of a gang war and goes to a public restaurant with his family, when his head should have been on a swivel.
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It could simply have been Phil Leotardo put the hit on Tony, paid in full and died and never took the hit off
Marcus2022
Orthodox Inquirer
Interesting video clip, Raskolnikov. Did the north keep the south down or was the divide organic? I'm not entirely sure.
Frankly, I think it's a natural divide in Europe. Northern Italy is basically Germanic, the South is more Ancient European mixed with some Arab (although not as much as some wignats think).
There is an IQ divide in Italy, and there are plenty of cultural differences from what Italians have explained to me. Those divides exist in several regions in Europe, but in Italy in seems more pronounced for historical reasons. The North was settled more by Germanics, it was part of the HRE, it's got more of the climatic selection that causes high IQ, etc.
I don't really have a dog in the fight, as I enjoy both Northern and Southern Italians, but in all honesty it seems as if the South is worse at civilizantional stuff.
You mean they don't cut the grass as often? Their trains are not always on time? This is not a Christian benchamrk of anything of real value.
I didn't see that any distinction was being made regarding Christianity. The discussion was about differences in Italian culture, which really do exist between north and south Italy.
The difference highlighted in the show is financial and political. The north hordes all resources at the expense of the south.
Culturaly and spiritually the south is richer.
*Financial, political, AND genetic. And probably geo-historical. And I obviously wasn't calling them worse Christians just because of that. Although, I'd also dispute the idea that people are superior Christians just because they are poor and incompetent or live in a more idyllic rural environment.
Africa is super traditional and rural, and in many areas nominally Christian, but they hardly have a rich culture, they hardly have coherent dogma, traditions, or art and literature. The historical richness of the South came before Central Europe became developed, so it was more of a cultural center in the past. That happens. Russia is now arguably the most potent carrier of European history, but it hasn't always been that way. It also doesn't make Russians Saints, not by a long shot.
Many Europeans have an issue with glamorizing stupid and poor people. It's true that Orthodoxy often flourishes the most in rural communities, but that doesn't in turn make rural or poor people better Christians.
In my personal experience, Southern Europeans tend to be more degenerate than Central or Northern Europeans. Partly less effeminate, yes, but if you look at their cultural output, it tends to be vulgar and disgusting. That applies to Greece, too. Or Malta, where you hardly see any women who don't walk around like whores. Same thing applies to Naples or Palermo.
Again, I' pretty open and able to enjoy the different regions, and Southern Italy has its charm, but the idea that they are oh-so-horribly exploited and in reality, super traditional and spiritually rich is just semi-marxist romanticism. That's not to judge their Christianity one way or another, which I am very annoyed at you for implying, but let's also cool it with "da Norte is-a traiying to keep-a dem down-a" nonsense.
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They are. End of story.
Basta, now I cooka da pizza.
There are divisions between cities much less regions. Remember not just Germanic northern Italics compared to southern invasion-imposed Italians some of whom were mixed into obscurity. The Venetians despise the Romans. Milanese don't like anyone. Some still trace their roots to sectarian factions like the Guelphs and the Ghibellines. The Neapolitans still look down on the Sicilians, but it's more of their violent criminal nature that was dominant for such a long period in Italian history which made these suspicions verifiable. If you were a farmer in Sicily the "protection" would come along and take 300 out of 500 of your bushels of wheat as payment and you would have to keep your mouth shut. Coincidentally, most people descended from southern Italians today point out that it was this subculture that ruined their reputation, until it was glorified by jewish hollywood after WW2, where this crypto-jewish element (cosa nostra) was allowed back in to Italy and emerged stronger in the United States at the same time.
For a European today to still harbor these divisional sentiments towards other European brethren is collective suicide. In light of the total destruction of Europa by hostile usurped governments filled with aliens importing more aliens, and the sheer amount of africans and indians and pakistanis and syrians and other MENA detritus, It is paramount to forgive these past wrongs or our racial brethren who may have done things in the name of a different Confession, and God is kind of showing us all how petty these historical grievances are in the face of our own annihilation. To still harbor these hatreds is a sign of not embracing the core of Christ's teachings for our own kin. I'm not implying that you are like that. I once was towards a certain little island of instigators, but I'm past that now. There is no option but a united Europa, and not glorifying jewified elements like La Cosa Nostra and its offshoots is a start.
Have you read Pasque di Sangue by Ariel Toaff?
It actually points more to the Ashkenazim having been a powerful influence in the North, rather than the South. I'm not convinced Mafia-type structures are themselves crypto-Jewish in their origin. Might just be an unfortunate historical development. You've had protection-squeezers all over Europe during the medieval period. The Haiducii in the Balkans were similar figures. Criminals, sure, but with a somewhat pro-social side to it, making them very popular in some circles. I'm not aware of a significant Jewish involvement in the Mob until Lucky Luciano. The early Mob guys didn't even want to interact with Jews.
By the way, I agree on that, and I wasn't trying to fire it up. As I mentioned several times now, I can enjoy both Southern and Northern Italians. More so than the Italians I know.
I have the same feelings regarding Eastern European irredentism, which I find retarded, as it rarely aligns with genuine, dedicated nationalism. It's Black bellyaching behavior. Italy is an interesting place because of its multi-faceted granular political and cultural history, but there is a distinctively Italian cultural heritage. I'm not taking sides in that divide, because I think Italians, and by extension Europeans, should stick together, differences aside. But I'm also in favor of some degree of particularism. Regional differences contribute to the richness of the European nations.