There. I fixed it for you.
The China Thread
- Thread starter God's lonely asperger
- Start date
There. I fixed it for you.
It appears China suffers from the same civilizational dynamics that are present in the West.
I you're out in the countryside, trying to live off the land, or being a good factory boy, the bureaucrats will hang you out to dry, when you get in their way or get yourself into trouble.
If you'll living in the middle of Shanghai, working at an engineering firm, then life is good. Enormous clean gyms, fancy restaurants, fingerprint payments, robot vacuums, an EV in the underground garage, etc.
You can say "I've been to the outskirts" and it's totally fine. Yeah, it's like that in every country. It's fine until it's not. It's good until you run into problems.
I think it's fair to say that the measure of a civilization is how it's able to rectify this problem and create a system that offers dignity to the most amount of people. Traditionally the wealth the Chinese have acquired could have a spurred a revolution of thought, to drive societal change for the better. Unfortunately, the Chinese are victims of the times just like we are. Communism being both a benefit and hindrance in this regard.
What I'm personally interested is whether the Chinese are able to revolutionize their way of thinking. Obviously, the lack of migrants gives them an immeasurable advantage over white people. Their centralized government is most likely preventing the consequences of the stupidity of their populace, who would fully embrace liberalism given the chance. Unfortunately, communism is also causing some ideological stagnation to a very serious degree and an over reliance on outdated boomerism that the world takes as gospel.
We're not in an economic war with the Chinese, we're in a void of dignity war with the Chinese. Which one of us can stop being a faggot first? The white man knows he's a faggot but does the Chinaman? That knowing is what gives the Whiteman a hidden advantage. It would be wise to take notice.
Their industrial capacity is buying them time, and I do hope it will continue to do so, but supreme faggotry will have its comeuppance in the long run for all of us.
I you're out in the countryside, trying to live off the land, or being a good factory boy, the bureaucrats will hang you out to dry, when you get in their way or get yourself into trouble.
If you'll living in the middle of Shanghai, working at an engineering firm, then life is good. Enormous clean gyms, fancy restaurants, fingerprint payments, robot vacuums, an EV in the underground garage, etc.
You can say "I've been to the outskirts" and it's totally fine. Yeah, it's like that in every country. It's fine until it's not. It's good until you run into problems.
I think it's fair to say that the measure of a civilization is how it's able to rectify this problem and create a system that offers dignity to the most amount of people. Traditionally the wealth the Chinese have acquired could have a spurred a revolution of thought, to drive societal change for the better. Unfortunately, the Chinese are victims of the times just like we are. Communism being both a benefit and hindrance in this regard.
What I'm personally interested is whether the Chinese are able to revolutionize their way of thinking. Obviously, the lack of migrants gives them an immeasurable advantage over white people. Their centralized government is most likely preventing the consequences of the stupidity of their populace, who would fully embrace liberalism given the chance. Unfortunately, communism is also causing some ideological stagnation to a very serious degree and an over reliance on outdated boomerism that the world takes as gospel.
We're not in an economic war with the Chinese, we're in a void of dignity war with the Chinese. Which one of us can stop being a faggot first? The white man knows he's a faggot but does the Chinaman? That knowing is what gives the Whiteman a hidden advantage. It would be wise to take notice.
Their industrial capacity is buying them time, and I do hope it will continue to do so, but supreme faggotry will have its comeuppance in the long run for all of us.
You really want to have this Covid discussion again?
China locked down the whole country and sent the military out to keep people locked up inside their apartment towers and locked down whole cities because a few people had COVID.
China was very draconian during COVID just a different style of draconian to the west. Stop simping for China.
We have had this discussion before. A lot of the Chinese GDP is fake and done just to pump up the numbers. Building ghost cities, uneconomical bullet trains to small cities, having huge amounts of greenery in the middle of nowhere along the highway that have to be watered and maintained etc.
You can see the data that growth in electricity usage and other key metrics don’t gel with the stated GDP growth metrics.
Would you rather have gone through a draconian temporary lockdown as in some cities in China, or have your genes and those of your family permanently mutated by the mRNA poison, your organs damaged, cancer risks spiked??
Instead of just relying on shoddy sources, check for yourself before posting. You're very misinformed on the Chinese economy because that is a very basic data point that any China observer knows.
Look up "imputed rent", or estimated rental value of owner-occupied housing. Imputed rents represent trillions of dollars in fudged numbers on the GDP of the US, UK, Canada among other countries. The Chinese GDP figures don't include imputed rents.
That imputed rents figure alone represents a fudge factor of 8%-12% in GDP growth figures.
Last edited:
You're not carrying water for the communist party simply because you're not paying anything to the communist party as a property owner. Whereas in the West you will always be a renter to some extent as you have to pay the government property taxes on your home or land.
As well you didn't mention capital gains on property, in China there are none on primary residence held over 5 years.
Most of the info you post about China is unsourced and fake, you have a very limited knowledge of Chinese culture and politics as an outsider who has not had significant experiences and travels in China and east Asia. .
The 70% home ownership rate in China is for Chinese millennials. The rate is much higher for the general population, over 90%. That stat above which you are disputing is from the BBC, hardly a pro-China source, an outlet that will bend over backwards to present China in the worst possible light.
China stipulated technology transfers with companies like Siemens, Tesla, Apple in exchange for access to their domestic market, so not exactly theft. We should do the same to them in technologies where they are now more advanced, like EVs, batteries and solar panels and force China to transfer tech in order to sell locally produced EVs.
I've talked before about China reviving suppressed western tech, here is a very good example:
"This is a genuinely incredible story: China found in U.S. archives an energy source that could power its entire future for 20,000 years - and they just made it work.
I'm not exaggerating. In the 1960s the U.S. - specifically Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee - invented a revolutionary type of nuclear reactor that could run on thorium instead of uranium (much more abundant and cheaper), with no meltdown risk, generating 50x less waste, and requiring no water. Then, due to messy politics, they killed the program in 1969 and fired the visionary behind it.
Afterwards the declassified blueprints for the project sat forgotten in archives for decades. That is until Chinese scientists found them and decided in 2011 to run an experimental project in the Gansu desert to see if they could make it work.A few days ago, after 14 years of work, they finally did.
I spent many days researching this and wrote the full story - how the technology works, the bureaucratic politics that killed it in America, and why this could genuinely be game-changing."
Nothing official that comes from China is worth anything. No statistic no data. It´s all fabricated. It might coincide with the truth sometimes other times not.
Chinese work. They work 365/24h. They are focused. And have a cunning but at the same time no bullshit mentality.
At this moment real estate is in deep shit and therefore all economy. The elite doesn´t like Xijiping. And misses the age before him. Because he is wrecking the economy. This transfer from real estate to tech investment is bullshit. Chinese real estate is just unsustainable anymore.
Property rights are respected during the lease period. More than in the west. During that period it´s better to be a chinese owner than a westerner.
But of course because it´s a communist shithole the land is owned by government. Like all red shit holes. Even though to be fair London is the same. With lords owning the land through leaseholds.
I rather pay property taxes and live in the western model than the chinese regarding property however.
Chinese work. They work 365/24h. They are focused. And have a cunning but at the same time no bullshit mentality.
At this moment real estate is in deep shit and therefore all economy. The elite doesn´t like Xijiping. And misses the age before him. Because he is wrecking the economy. This transfer from real estate to tech investment is bullshit. Chinese real estate is just unsustainable anymore.
Property rights are respected during the lease period. More than in the west. During that period it´s better to be a chinese owner than a westerner.
But of course because it´s a communist shithole the land is owned by government. Like all red shit holes. Even though to be fair London is the same. With lords owning the land through leaseholds.
I rather pay property taxes and live in the western model than the chinese regarding property however.
Speculative whataboutism from someone who doesn't know the Chinese housing system.
Why don't you invest in some Chinese real estate if it's so great? Oh yeah, it's extremely difficult for foreigners to lease property there, and even if you did, you would be a prime target for it being taken off of you since you're not Chinese.
I heard a few times about people, usually foreigners, losing badly when trying to buy commercial properties. The scam was always sub-leasing where the current tenant claimed to be the "owner" (actually the lessee) and all their papers said so, but after the deal was completed it turned out the the real owner was the PLA (military), so the "buyer" had no recourse whatsoever.
I knew two foreign bar/restaurant owners this happened to, one in Guangzhou and one in Beijing. Sorry mate, your 300K元 just disappeared.
And those numbers on home ownership at 70-90% are nonsense. As I said before, in all my years there I only knew one young person who bought his own condo in the Guangzhou metro area. Everyone else was living with family or renting. Chinese movies and TV don't even try to show 70% home ownership.
Big if true. Would be funny if it turned out the Chinese were monitoring Alex Jones for these lost tech opportunities, researching his conspiracy theories and then capitalizing
You never buy real estate in places where you don't live, or at the very least, do not intend to visit and vacation regularly, unless you have a very good local that you trust, but even then it's not an ideal investment situation.
This being said, the China haters need to get your their housing story straight, you can't have these two statements be simultaneously true:
- Over 90% home ownership numbers are fake
- There are millions upon millions of empty apartments in China.
So I'll go with the HSBC and BBC numbers here instead of relying on the feelings of a 老外 who lived there 10 years ago and who seems to have had a very bitter experience there, no offense.
Big if true. Would be funny if it turned out the Chinese were monitoring Alex Jones for these lost tech opportunities, researching his conspiracy theories and then capitalizing
Other examples of neglected western tech that led to breakthroughs is the technology behind hypersonic missiles and supercavitating torpedoes that travel underwater at 200km/h. Those technologies were built on French physicist Jean-Pierre Petit's research on magnetohydrodynamics (MHD) in the 1980s. He was considered and eccentric kook in his home country, but the Russians, who had a passion and deep understanding of theoretical maths, picked it up and run with it, followed by the Chinese.
What do you think is incongruent about both of those being simultaneously true?
The second point contributes to the misleading or fake statistic of the first point.
Ever since laws limiting the number of "houses" per household being tax exempt, Chinese have found ways to own multiples, including getting divorced on paper in order to reap tax benefits or so that the wife can have one in her name as an investment.
Beijing moves to end practice of faking divorce to buy additional home
Anyone with a Beijing hukou who is divorced but owned two properties while they were married cannot buy another home in Beijing for three years, according to a notice issued by the Beijing Municipal Commission of Housing and Urban-rural Development.
www.scmp.com
China Home Sales Skirt Policies With Fake Divorces, Attics
By Bloomberg News
August 15, 2011 at 10:25 PM CDT
Couples fake divorce to buy property
The latest government regulation limiting families to the purchase of only one new apartment has led many couples in the city to fake a divorce to dodge the rule.
www.chinadaily.com.cn
I have mentioned this before that there are a huge number of Chinese from rural abandoned villages that own abandoned worthless property in their dying home village while they are living in a major city working in a factory and paying rent to live in an overcrowded shared apartment. On paper they are a homeowner but it’s a very meaningless form of home ownership. There are likely a few hundred million people in this type of situation. While this is going on there are tens of millions of empty apartment buildings that Chinese people cannot afford to buy and were built during the speculative property boom that are just slowly rotting away not even being rented because even the rent is too unaffordable for people.
That is exactly how communism works because there aren’t true price signals driving the process so you get this seemingly contradictory outcome.
So you can have millions of empty apartments built that are unaffordable (luxury) for the majority of Chinese (built as a store of value for wealthy speculators during the Chinese property boom which is now dead) or built in ghost cities where there are no jobs so nobody wants to live there meanwhile there are a huge percentage of people who cannot afford to buy a property.
China didn’t build affordable property in locations where people actually want to live. The properties were either in poor locations or too unaffordable for the Chinese population to buy. A classic misallocation of capital that occurs in a communist system.
Yes, exactly. I think we both commented on this previously, but I'll also repeat what i'd said:
In the small towns, when money is allocated to their local and inept government, who immediately spends the funds meant to help poor, working-class locals, but is instead waste it on useless projects that are fronts for allocating the cash to the petty bureaucratic pigs, one of the only options for the workers is a low-odds attempt at having a domicile in the path or proximity of one of the useless projects that would be displaced by construction plans, and not even actual construction.
In order to reap some benefits from the influx of cash, families will pool their resources and gamble on a prediction of where to begin a ramshackle house of cinder blocks and half-finished walls that would qualify them for some compensation, which often never comes, and these "houses" are later counted in those absurd 90% home-owner statistics so the local govt can report this nonsense as a win, similar to how local govts falsely reported excesses of harvests to Mao when he was starving tens of millions to death during the Great Leap Forward.
Early in my stay in Guangzhou, I had an assignment in a town of a few hundred thousand that was about 50 miles out, where they had completed a city govt center that was never, ever opened, and where I could never detect any human activity. More than 10 years later, I visited the town and absolutely nothing had changed. The large govt building that dominated its CBD was still shut tight as a drum and the unfinished "houses" in the area still looked like the set from a future apocalyptic film like The Road (2009).
Pictures of the actual government center of this town where I stayed. These buildings had no human activity whatsoever. When I asked locals what went on there, they all said they had no idea because they never saw anything happen. These projects were all just for show and had no function except to provide opportunities for grift and bribes and are common in China.
Photo from the web of a house in Sichuan that is better than what I saw in 2005 and that had not changed when I re-visited in 2015.
Because of the imminent demise of the Amerik and the impending conquest of white lands by the yellow peril, I give you YELLOW DAWN and the future of life under the great Shee Jeen Ping Pong.
That city in Sichuan, Anju, doesn't look like a ghost town. There is a new industrial park with for instance the large auto plant pictured below, and several privately operated hotels there, which obviously would not exist if this was some kind of a ghost town...
Chances are many of those new buildings were not there when you visited that place 10+ years ago.
One of the main goals of China's last industrial plan was to industrialize the hinterland, expanding manufacturing into smaller cities like this town of Anju whose new city hall you have pictured above. as part of that process, they often build the transport, housing and administrative infrastructure ahead of the plants and commerces.
You're wrong about home ownership data as well. While it is true that the home ownership rate in big cities like Shanghai or Beijing is much lower than the 90% national average, at around 65%, a lot of these migrant workers that rent in the big cities are homeowners back in their towns and villages of origin. They have homesteads where they can retire and live off the land, and the fact that the rail and transport infrastructure is top notch in China means that their properties in the country are actually valuable. Whereas in the West, only the upper classes have country homes.
Compare with the home ownership rates in equivalent cities in the US, Canada, UK, France, Germany:
NYC : 70% renters
San Francisco: 65% renters
Paris: 70% renters
Berlin: 85% renters
Compare with
Beijing: 35.3% renters
Shanghai: 35.9% renters
The other aspect of home ownership here is that in China 80% of homes are owned outright with no debt or mortgage.
Rural development is a relatively new phenomenon in China, meant to narrow the gap with the cities:
Last edited:
Not true, for example, there has been a housing glut in most big Chinese cities recently, Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou etc, and rents in most big cities like Wuhan, Chongqing, Chengdu etc are pretty low, which means that the supply of new housing there is robust.
It is the housing market in your cities (Sydney, Melbourne) and most western cities like SF, LA, Vancouver, Toronto, Paris, London etc that is completely out of whack, due to lack of recent construction because of Boomer NIMBYism, red tape and artificially high construction costs.
Last edited:
I'll have to do a better job of writing because I failed to make it clear that those three photos of the government center in a town near Guangzhou, where I never saw any activity, was evidence of corruption in my opinion, and not a ghost town. I lived a few blocks from these buildings, which also had some basketball courts nearby and the whole place was at the end of the main street. I saw them almost every day for about two months and never once saw a person going in or out.
Based on everything I heard and learned over the years of how things worked in China, I concluded that the county govt gave this small town some money, so they built these in order to pretend the funds had been well spent.
Considering there was nothing going on inside, I always assumed they were just barren money pits. I mean maybe they were constructing thorium-salt reactors or something, so it was just all top secret, but I think the obvious conclusion is more likely, lol. I visited new govt buildings in the county seat and they looked like those on the outside (everything looks the same in China), but there were endless streams of people going in and out, which is normal.
Around those small town govt buildings there were small houses, mostly 2-storey without rooves, that are similar to the photo I found online from Sichuan, however the real "houses" contributing to the 90% ownership rate were actually worse. I concluded the reason for there being so many unfinished and unlivable houses after 10 years close to those buildings was that they were used to claim compensation from the construction projects.
I simply never took pictures of the actual unfinished homes because they were so ugly it would have broken my camera, lol. That's why I grabbed one off the net, which was not perfectly clear from my last post.