The Abortion Thread

[BrotherAugustine]

False dilemma - it is possible Trump wins because they get caught cheating, or mess up their rigging in other ways. If they rig the election again then people need to push for a succession, there won't be any other way.



Pretty silly how you've framed this with only bad outcomes - I can see why you got the blackpill ban. You aren't considering the huge multitude of scenerios that could happen. You also underestimate God, and what He is capable of. We cannot predict the future, it is very possible God has other plans.

Finally, I've seen you get stuff wrong before - you rarely go back and acknowledge your errors. Even in Trump wins, and does a solid job at Pres, you'll still say he was controlled opposition and somehow made things worse. I've read your TDS enough times to know.



Can you name a SINGLE poster on this board who idolizes Trump, or holds him as a prophet, or messiah?

Maybe a warning not to idolize Trump would be better posted on https://patriots.win/ ? Or on Truth Social? Somewhere you'll actually find the boogeymen you fear here.

Underestimate God? I think it would be perfectly just of Him to let a country fall into ruin because the Christians of that country voted for a President who holds up the Bible in photoshoots while compromising with the left on abortion so that “both sides are gonna like [him].”

I’d be far more surprised if He blessed a country with that level of lukewarm blindness, especially when said country failed to learn a single lesson from having already elected him just to be betrayed over and over again.

You ask who here is making an idol of Trump, yet respond to critiques of him with personal insults. And it’s ironic of you to say I don’t admit to past mistakes, when I myself voted for Trump in both 2016 and 2020.

 

[Samseau]

Underestimate God? I think it would be perfectly just of Him to let a country fall into ruin because the Christians of that country voted for a President who holds up the Bible in photoshoots while compromising with the left on abortion so that “both sides are gonna like [him].”

This is a perfect example of Trump Derangement Syndrome. Here you are attacking the President who got rid of Roe v Wade through his SCOTUS appointments, claiming he compromised on abortion. A total inversion of reality.

And those three SCOTUS picks he got was 100% God, because only God chooses when we are called to Judgement. Thus Trump was used by God to get rid of Federally protected abortions, but rather than see what's in front of you, you let hatred for a single man cloud your judgement.

I’d be far more surprised if He blessed a country with that level of lukewarm blindness, especially when said country failed to learn a single lesson from having already elected him just to be betrayed over and over again.

God will spare an entire city for the sake of just 10 righteous still living there. You shouldn't be surprised at God's mercy, however, Trump's "betrayal" is far less than any of our other elected leaders have betrayed us, so no one knows what the lesson we're supposed to be learning is.

You ask who here is making an idol of Trump, yet respond to critiques of him with personal insults. And it’s ironic of you to say I don’t admit to past mistakes, when I myself voted for Trump in both 2016 and 2020.

I haven't attacked you, although I can see why you may feel hurt if I point out your emotional, one-sided critique you've been making of Trump for years. Many have tried to reason with you by showing that you draw conclusions that are too extreme and cannot be supported, but it then boils down to how Trump is such a mean and nasty sinner he just cannot be good for America, etc. etc, "insert emotional response against Trump here." So ultimately, the only thing left for myself, or others, can do to respond to you is point out your emotional, one-sided hatred against Trump despite any reason or evidence. Sometimes talking about the person making the arguments is relevant once it is apparent the person you are speaking with isn't interested in an open conversion to learn, but has already made up his mind because he cannot be wrong.

Voting for Trump is not the mistake. The mistake is believing that there is a better alternative, because there isn't. We live in a fallen world, politics will always be garbage, until the Return of The King, so stop getting your hopes up. This was even true in former Christian empires, the politics were generally garbage. The point to voting for Trump or anyone else is to hurt our enemies and make life a bit easier for our Neighbors. That's all, if it does that it was a good vote.

I figure you'll just say Trump actually helped our enemies, which is of course a lie since then why didn't they want to keep Trump in 2020? To which the hater response is "because he was too dumb to stop them from rigging it and they no longer needed him," which is a contradiction in terms (why would they need to rig against someone who helps them, why are they so hysterically anti-Trump, why did they make up false rape accusations against Kavanaugh, etc).

 

[BrotherAugustine]

Who here is putting their faith in something other than God?

If you defend and vote for an abortionist, because you’re worried that without killing babies you might not get the political power you want - and make no mistake, this is precisely the “logic” used by some Republicans to explain why it’s a “good thing” Trump wants to compromise with the left on abortion - then who and what is your faith in? I have seen them say this on Twitter, that being against abortion is “political suicide.” So they’re trading the lives of the unborn for power, and somehow still imagine that they’re Christians and conservatives.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

If you defend and vote for an abortionist, because you’re worried that without killing babies you might not get the political power you want - and make no mistake, this is precisely the “logic” used by some Republicans to explain why it’s a “good thing” Trump wants to compromise with the left on abortion - then who and what is your faith in? I have seen them say this on Twitter, that being against abortion is “political suicide.” So they’re trading the lives of the unborn for power, and somehow still imagine that they’re Christians and conservatives.

Him pointing out that abortion needs to handled by the states is absolutely correct. It's the only political strategy that allows for the winning and removal of abortion.

This is a bit of conflating the political reality and then arguing that he is in favor of something he is not.

I don't understand the disconnect and assertion that Trump is pro abortion.

 

[BrotherAugustine]

Him pointing out that abortion needs to handled by the states is absolutely correct. It's the only political strategy that allows for the winning and removal of abortion.

This is a bit of conflating the political reality and then arguing that he is in favor of something he is not.

I don't understand the disconnect and assertion that Trump is pro abortion.

Did you miss the interview where he said he was going to compromise with the left and give the pro choice crowd a certain number of weeks or months to kill an unborn child? It was specifically so that “both sides are gonna like [him]” on the topic.

You guys may not realize this but abortion is still completely legal in all 50 states. What’s illegal in some of them is going to an abortion clinic - but if the mother decides to kill her unborn child at home, there are absolutely no consequences for doing so. As this video explains in depth, it’s the “Pro-Life” lobby doing the left’s work for them and adamantly keeping abortion legal.

Watch this video carefully and think about what they’re saying.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Did you miss the interview where he said he was going to compromise with the left and give the pro choice crowd a certain number of weeks or months to kill an unborn child? It was specifically so that “both sides are gonna like [him]” on the topic.

You guys may not realize this but abortion is still completely legal in all 50 states. What’s illegal in some of them is going to an abortion clinic - but if the mother decides to kill her unborn child at home, there are absolutely no consequences for doing so. As this video explains in depth, it’s the “Pro-Life” lobby doing the left’s work for them and adamantly keeping abortion legal.

Thats not true. Abortions in Texas for instance, are ownly authroized in extreme circumstances. A woman was recently trying to get an abortion and tried to go to the supreme court of tx specifically to get an exception.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/1...says that Cox,the abortion, and her employees.

https://states.guttmacher.org/policies/texas/abortion-policies

Watch this video carefully and think about what they’re saying.

So what is your argument? That overturning Roe V Wade didn't result in less abortions?

 

[BrotherAugustine]

Thats not true. Abortions in Texas for instance, are ownly authroized in extreme circumstances. A woman was recently trying to get an abortion and tried to go to the supreme court of tx specifically to get an exception.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/12/05/texas-abortion-lawsuit/#:~:text=The lawsuit says that Cox,the abortion, and her employees.

https://states.guttmacher.org/policies/texas/abortion-policies

So what is your argument? That overturning Roe V Wade didn't result in less abortions?

That’s for going to a clinic, which I already acknowledged is now illegal in some states. Please watch the video I posted.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

That’s for going to a clinic, which I already acknowledged is now illegal in some states. Please watch the video I posted.

Again what is your point? I watched the video.

The abortion clinics being shut down is absolutley a good thing. Self managed abortions are occuring sure... but the fact of the matter is that no-one is going to vote for criminalizing the woman. Trump did actually say that they AND they doctor should be charged.

https://www.vox.com/2016/3/30/11333472/trump-abortions-punishment-women

 

[BrotherAugustine]

no-one is going to vote for criminalizing the woman.

People want to, actually. If you watched the video then you know it’s the “Christian” “conservative” “pro life” lobby stopping the bills from going through. Until that happens abortion will continue to be legal as long as you don’t do it in a clinic. As for Trump’s comment - which the article you linked said he immediately walked back afterward - it should be beyond obvious by now that he does not appear to have a meaningful or principled stance on this topic.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

People want to, actually. If you watched the video then you know it’s the “Christian” “conservative” “pro life” lobby stopping the bills from going through. Until that happens abortion will continue to be legal as long as you don’t do it in a clinic. As for Trump’s comment - which the article you linked said he immediately walked back afterward - it should be beyond obvious by now that he does not appear to have a meaningful or principled stance on this topic.

Yeah he had to walk it back because its clearly not where the party is at. His gut is that punishment should be issued...but the party is not going to promote that message. I don't undrstand why that is such a hard thing to grasp.

The overton window has shifted away from abortion being fairly accepted, to something that is viewed more negatively. That is a good thing.

Yes, the Southern Baptist convention might be willing to do that. I personally would be in favor of it. But the Pro-Life Lobby prevents some of that from happening. Sure. So what? At a national stage, this issue is not the one that is going to get Trump elected right now. His political push is the border, economy, and no new wars. But... Again what is the point? Why does that have anything to do with the fact at hand? How does this argument specifically tie in to Trump?

 

[Uzisuicide]

The abortion matter has been kicked back to the states where it's always belonged thanks to Trump. Abortion is an issue that needs to be addressed by changing hearts through the culture and there's alot of work to be done there for sure. But you are not going to eradicate abortion through legislation any more than you will gun violence.

 

[DeusLuxMeaEst]

Might be the wrong thread but well well

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...-libs-allowing-biden-remove-texas-border-wire

Any explanation for Barrett’s vote here? (We all know Roberts can’t be trusted)

I predict lots of articles like this will continue to annoy me through the 2024 election season.

 

[DeusLuxMeaEst]

The abortion matter has been kicked back to the states where it's always belonged thanks to Trump. Abortion is an issue that needs to be addressed by changing hearts through the culture and there's alot of work to be done there for sure. But you are not going to eradicate abortion through legislation any more than you will gun violence.

I’m going to have to disagree with the bolded section. If you made it outright illegal everywhere, lots of women would think twice to get an abortion at their cozy clinic vs. go to some underground location where the unlicensed ‘Doctor’ Suarez is working. The fact that there are safe havens for abortions, makes it all the easier to get one.

Your point about cultural change is valid.

 

[Samseau]

I’m going to have to disagree with the bolded section. If you made it outright illegal everywhere, lots of women would think twice to get an abortion at their cozy clinic vs. go to some underground location where the unlicensed ‘Doctor’ Suarez is working. The fact that there are safe havens for abortions, makes it all the easier to get one.

Your point about cultural change is valid.

But Uzisuicide's position is that it is good to close down clinics, he was responding to Augstine's position that women should face jail if they have an abortion at home.

To which I would ask @BrotherAugustine , how on earth would such a law be enforced? How would the state even know if someone is pregnant, let alone having a bedroom abortion? There are plenty of sound legal reasons why it's a bad idea to criminalize abortion inside someone's house, it's not possible to enforce with consistency, and would generate a lot of heated backlash for invading women's houses.

The state has no business in someone's house, people do illegal and immoral things in the privacy of their home all the time, it's important to protect that privacy because once the government starts to acquire power it will be used in other ways to harm us, by whatever sinner happens to take power next.

 

[Thomas More]

People want to, actually. If you watched the video then you know it’s the “Christian” “conservative” “pro life” lobby stopping the bills from going through. Until that happens abortion will continue to be legal as long as you don’t do it in a clinic. As for Trump’s comment - which the article you linked said he immediately walked back afterward - it should be beyond obvious by now that he does not appear to have a meaningful or principled stance on this topic.

He's the only President who got up repeatedly in office and called for ending abortion, and actually appointed judges who would strike it down. He delivered where others paid lip service.

Despite every other bad thing you could say about him, his presidency was worth it for the progress on abortion alone.

 

[BrotherAugustine]

But Uzisuicide's position is that it is good to close down clinics, he was responding to Augstine's position that women should face jail if they have an abortion at home.

To which I would ask @BrotherAugustine , how on earth would such a law be enforced? How would the state even know if someone is pregnant, let alone having a bedroom abortion? There are plenty of sound legal reasons why it's a bad idea to criminalize abortion inside someone's house, it's not possible to enforce with consistency, and would generate a lot of heated backlash for invading women's houses.

The state has no business in someone's house, people do illegal and immoral things in the privacy of their home all the time, it's important to protect that privacy because once the government starts to acquire power it will be used in other ways to harm us, by whatever sinner happens to take power next.

“There shouldn’t be laws against murdering kids in the privacy of your own home. Just think of how hard they’d be to enforce!”

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Yeah he had to walk it back because its clearly not where the party is at. His gut is that punishment should be issued...but the party is not going to promote that message. I don't undrstand why that is such a hard thing to grasp.

That is the spirit that's being duly criticized. What else is he going to walk back because that's not "where the party is at?"

 

[Get2choppaaa]

“There shouldn’t be laws against murdering kids in the privacy of your own home. Just think of how hard they’d be to enforce!”

My friend... you're being unduly pedantic.

Yes we all agree with the notion. BUT... No the Practicality isnt enforcable.

We cant even get the Supreme court to agree that a state has the ability to support its own border (in spite of the Constitutionally cut and dry obvious contradictory nature of their ruling.)

That is the spirit that's being duly criticized. What else is he going to walk back because that's not "where the party is at?"

Yeah that's an argument... but thats irrelevant to the point. He wasnt the President then, and it was during a campaign stop (I dont think he was even the nominee)

Trump is significantly more to the right than Haley or Biden. So lets meet reality where reality is.

 

[Samseau]

“There shouldn’t be laws against murdering kids in the privacy of your own home. Just think of how hard they’d be to enforce!”

Except it's not difficult to enforce laws against murder because evidence of murder is huge, from the person we know went missing to the evidence of the kill (the blood, the mess, the body, etc). No such thing would exist in criminalizing abortion at home:

- There's no way to know which woman is pregnant or not
- There's no way to know if she had an abortion or a miscarriage in her house

Feels to me you aren't even trying to have a serious discussion.

The best argument we can give to women, as to why they shouldn't do bedroom abortions, is the high chance of death in the event they do something wrong during the procedure.

 

[BrotherAugustine]

Except it's not difficult to enforce laws against murder because evidence of murder is huge, from the person we know went missing to the evidence of the kill (the blood, the mess, the body, etc). No such thing would exist in criminalizing abortion at home:

- There's no way to know which woman is pregnant or not
- There's no way to know if she had an abortion or a miscarriage in her house

Feels to me you aren't even trying to have a serious discussion.

The best argument we can give to women, as to why they shouldn't do bedroom abortions, is the high chance of death in the event they do something wrong during the procedure.

Are you under the impression that abortion is somehow not murder? The issue here is simply whether the same protections are extended to unborn murder victims as to born murder victims. And even though I knew you’d disagree with me about Trump, I have to say I’m rather surprised to hear an Orthodox Christian speaking like a libertarian and listing reasons why we shouldn’t give the unborn equal protection under law.