Relocating to Southeast Asia

Tons of western women working/volunteering in various ministries/NGOs.

Sounds great.

I wish it were true, I am skeptical. But you have to know who you are, and it doesn't matter for me, as I won't be going there regardless. If I do, somebody slap me, because it would be to see how 3rd world it is and see the WGF in action, which I'd rather not be tempted.
 
Sounds great.

And as far as language barrier when dealing with locals, is it okay? I met a few Filipino man here in the States and it is hard to understand what they're saying. And they're supposedly here for many years. Do I need to check my ears or they speak a broken English?
There is definitely a language barrier, unless you strictly hang out with upper middle class and above folks. Even then the accent can take a while to get used to, but for just getting around its fine. Just slow down and lower your expectations. Don't be in a hurry or on a tight timeline/schedule and it'll be great!
 
Sounds great.

And as far as language barrier when dealing with locals, is it okay? I met a few Filipino man here in the States and it is hard to understand what they're saying. And they're supposedly here for many years. Do I need to check my ears or they speak a broken English?
Another myth perpetuated, the vast majority of Filipinos have terrible english, you have no idea. You really think , they are getting down and dirty, with their own kind, in English?!!, absolutely not.. they are speaking in their local dialect or tagalog, there's over 100 different dialects. No problem, for guys like, me , I can understand the vast majority of Tagalog, and can speak to a conversational level. And it may not always be because they cannot speak it decently. But again you must know the culture. They are extremely embarassed to speak english incorrectly, or grammatically incorrect, it's very common for Filipinos to bully each other from a young age for speaking English incorrectly. So they will not dare have a legitimate conversation with a foreigner, in the case of losing face, unless they are confident in their ability. That's reality, 80-90% will not have a conversation with you, may as well be in Vietnam, or Thailand or wherever, it's no different. Yes you can find some that will speak english though
 
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Another myth perpetuated, the vast majority of Filipinos have terrible english, you have no idea. You really think , they are getting down and dirty, with their own kind, in English?!!, absolutely not.. they are speaking in their local dialect or tagalog, there's over 100 different dialects. But again you must know the culture. They are extremely embarassed to speak english incorrectly, or grammatically incorrect, it's very common for Filipinos to bully each other from a young age for speaking English incorrectly. So they will not dare have a legitimate conversation with a foreigner, in the case of losing face, unless they are confident in their ability. That's reality, 80-90% will not have a conversation with you, may as well be in Vietnam, or Thailand or wherever, it's no different. Yes you can find some that will speak english though
You can apply this 100% to China, where the few Chinese who are not shy speaking around foreigners are exactly the ones you want to know for a number of reasons, most importantly for their mental health because the shyness comes from a variety of abuse that is common in all those countries.

What I always heard from Westerners living in China, who went to the Philippines on vacation, was that the food was very bland and the lowlight of their trip. If they were into scuba diving then they loved it, if not, they would be investigating other SEA locales for future vacations.
 
My goal is to get out of the country before SHTF.
The USA is certainly not the worst place to be when SHTF. Look back to covid 2020. Some places were strict, but you could move to a different city, and overall the USA was one of the best of the Western countries to avoid the jab or severe lockdowns when compared to Australia, Austria, and some others.

Having previously lived there, I was watching China during covid and it was full-on dystopia with people being welded into their apartments or having to stand for hours outside, lining up once a week for forced swab testing.

They had a mandatory app that monitored your covid status like it was Logan's Run: green and you can go to the market, yellow and you have to immediately go get a swab test, and red means the cops are going to grab you, separate you from your infants if you have them, and send you to separate covid lockdown facilities for at least two weeks for 24/7 isolation in a small room, for which you have to pay the bill while some goon in a protective suit shoves instant noodles through your door slot.

The Chinese control grid (that we helped them build) was watching everyone, so if you passed within a few meters of someone whose status turned red, then yours turned either yellow or red. When this happened in a shopping mall, or even the largest convention center in the world, there was an immediate ripple effect to avoid getting locked in when the cops came to lock down thousands of people in place for two weeks, so as soon as anyone knew of a red code nearby, they'd rush for the exits.

While I would not expect any other country to be as bad as China, it would be difficult to predict how things would play out in another SEA locale, but there will not be any court over there putting an end to tyrannical covid measures like we finally got in the USA.

During the next manufactured crisis, there will still be thousands of square miles of the USA that are not under tight control for a variety of reasons, while who knows how strict it might be in somewhere like the Philippines. Something equivalent to forced vaccination could get flipped on at any time and you'd be stuck there.
 
^Yes, the Philippines have the worst cuisine in SE Asia, bland and greasy. The Chinese, Thai and Malays really excel in that department, with the Vietnamese not far behind.

The worst aspect of the Philippines though is that it is a third world society, Manilla is still a third world city, while KL, Bangkok have cleaned up considerably and modernized, and Hanoi starting further back but on the rise as well. The bad aspect on top of that in the Philippines is that they aren't particularly cheap, and because it's a bit grungy, you have to stay in the more premium neighborhoods, stick to the better hotels and restaurants, top expat clinics, gyms etc whereas in China or Malaysia the middle class offerings are quite adequate, and the high end is excellent and still relatively affordable.
 
The USA is certainly not the worst place to be when SHTF. Look back to covid 2020. Some places were strict, but you could move to a different city, and overall the USA was one of the best of the Western countries to avoid the jab or severe lockdowns when compared to Australia, Austria, and some others.

While I would not expect any other country to be as bad as China, it would be difficult to predict how things would play out in another SEA locale, but there will not be any court over there putting an end to tyrannical covid measures like we finally got in the USA.

During the next manufactured crisis, there will still be thousands of square miles of the USA that are not under tight control for a variety of reasons, while who knows how strict it might be in somewhere like the Philippines. Something equivalent to forced vaccination could get flipped on at any time and you'd be stuck there.
The Philippines was ridiculously strict in the cities during the lockdowns (which were off and on for more than 2 years BTW), however friends who live in different rural provinces had basically no interruptions/disruption at all. Life as usual, unless dealing with government offices or medical facilities.
One thing to consider was for at least a good year and a half no foreigners could enter PH unless they were married to a local, traveling WITH their spouse. Contrast that to places like Thailand for example; it was still possible to enter and quarantine in an approved hotel for however long before going around like usual.

That said, some places around the Philippines aren't big on enforcing national government mandates at all, so it really depends on the kind of lifestyle you would want and geographical location.

Asia definitely has more of a herd mentality from my experience but even in the "strictest" enforcement, there are generally still workarounds. As long the appearances of adherence are kept up, then everyone is happy.
 
What I always heard from Westerners living in China
That phrase. So is this even possible given the tensions? China is easily far more developed than the rest of SE Asia and is a cheap place to live. Do the Chinese allow westerners to digital nomad over there or will we automatically be dismissed as spies? Being an expat in China is bizarre and may be the path less traveled, but it’s very safe and the cost of living is low.
 
That phrase. So is this even possible given the tensions? China is easily far more developed than the rest of SE Asia and is a cheap place to live. Do the Chinese allow westerners to digital nomad over there or will we automatically be dismissed as spies? Being an expat in China is bizarre and may be the path less traveled, but it’s very safe and the cost of living is low.
TLDR; yes

I lived there for a while and saw different phases or periods of what it was like, as well as hearing from older expats what it was like before I got there. I left a few years before covid, so there have been drastic changes since then, but China is promoting Western tourism and being a digital nomad there is possible with two major things to deal with: your visa and the internet access.

===============================================================
1990'is - 2001'ish: the golden years when food was cheaper and cleaner and the locals treated foreigners with some deference. Although this has changed, Chinese will still treat white foreigners much better than they treat each other because they know we're nice compared to them. They think we're lovable fools, like big children.

2002 - 2007: a transition between the golden years and the 2008 summer olympics, where the country was trying to open to the West and also normalize it's internal conditions. For most Western foreigners, this was still a time of easy access to visas, but that ended Dec. 31, 2007 in a lead-up of crackdowns before the Olympics because China was afraid of any kind of losing face.

When the Olympic torch was going around Europe, people had protested about Tibet and China can't handle this kind of exposure or embarrassment. This is an example of how they can crack down any time, which should be considered a risk if you're thinking of living there.

2008 - 2011: the transition from the easy times around the big cities and Wild West everywhere else, where foreigners began to get treated as locals do each other in business, meaning round eyes got their companies stolen from you just like the locals do to other Chinese. Taxes begun to be enforced more strictly for everyone.

Hong Kong was no longer any good (like it used to be), and the gutter oil was flowing freely in the "cheap" food. Baby milk powder scandal, etc.

2012 - 2019 Xi: Jin Ping crushes all the openers and reformers and also kicks off with a big anti-foreigner campaign in May 2012 aimed at Brits, Americans, and Japanese, that included almost a year of difficulty getting visas for those Western countries and many others. This was punctuated by anti-Japanese riots that resulted in a few deaths of foreigners as well as locals, who were driving Hondas.

Attempts at soft power propaganda failed, so they hired Western companies to portray China as wonderful, as well as paying Western influencers to galivant around the country not noticing all the reasons why China is the worst country in the world for traveling.

2015, Sept: Xi Jin Ping had his massive commie celebration where all factories were closed in about a 30 mile radius around Beijing for over a month so the skies would be blue. This sent the message to foreign investors and factory owners that they would be caught up in such idiocy no matter how hard they worked at following rules. Another example of the kind of crackdown that can occur that could interrupt any plans you have of living there and making money.

2020-2022/23: Covid lockdowns were initiated like many of the future dystopian movies have described. Their electronic surveillance and control grid was developed and improved, and because of Xi's destruction of his own economy for the Zero Covid policy, there is no reason to think this could not happen again at any time. This was Xi's equivalent of The Great Leap forward as far as blunders go and he's still in power.

2024 - present: trying to get back to normal and being more inviting to Western tourism and investment, but the trend for foreigners is pulling out and putting their globalization factories elsewhere.

===============================================================

When I was there, Americans could easily get 1 year tourist visas (probably still can) and I did not hear of people worrying about what the govt would think about your being there without paying taxes because you were apparently not working a Chinese job. If you actually get a job there, your taxes will be taken out by your employer even if you don't have legit paper work.

Never heard of them tracking down a digital nomad living there and making him pay taxes or get a work visa. Things may have changed, but if they were going to do that to anyone, I would have expected them to use that against foreign Youtubers serpentza or laowhy86, but they never did, although that was circa 2019.

That said, the govt definitely monitors all foreigners and of course, if you are well-known online and say negative things about the CCP, then you'll be under stricter surveillance than normal, although you might never see it if you don't actually do anything too stupid.

Internet access is restricted and VPN's have been necessary since 2012 in order to get to non-Chinese web sites worth going to. VPN's are technically illegal for locals or foreigners to use un-licensed, only big companies, financials, and higher tier hotels have licensed VPNs, but many people use them, especially as so many Chinese have become world travelers.

The govt has spent a lot of energy on being able to monitor and block VPN's when they need to, such as during big political events, June 4 (Tianmen) commemorations, etc., and they do deep packet inspection, so you gotta be tech savvy if you actually care about privacy. However, you can still run a VPN without fear of getting into trouble, although a few times a year it won't work and you may have to switch brands often.

China can be cheap if you want to live in a so-so apartment and aren't aware of how badly the food is adulterated and how that is gradually affecting your health. So you can "save money" and eat the same contaminated stuff the Chinese eat, but you're burning years off your life 2:1.

The air is also heavily polluted with particulates and that bothers some people more than others. I knew plenty of foreigners and locals with persistent bronchitis that would not clear up until they got out of the country for several weeks. The water is so bad that everyone knows not to drink it, but you still gotta bathe in it. I was in an apartment for a year where they "fixed" the water system and it was so bad it ruined all my sheets and towels because they were cotton.

In addition to the material toxicity, the spiritual and emotional toxicity is pretty bad. Chinese are living in a fundamentally abusive society and are angry and contemptuous of each other, for which they have developed massive coping mechanisms of how they interact, which has a façade of impassivity and politeness, but is essentially about minimizing contact and being "closed" or unfriendly, even when smiling.

Most foreigners get burned out by a combination of all these material and spiritual toxins within two or three years and those who stay longer will often suffer eye problems (my guess is because of the pesticide contamination), and eventually leave for mental and physical health reasons.

I don't think China is a good choice for more than 6 - 12 months because of all the hidden dangers I've mentioned. The exception would be if you are conversant in Mandarin prior to going, or become so within a few months of arriving, and have some kind of social circle where you live. Those are the foreigners I knew who really thrived long-term.

If you want the Chinese experience, go to Taiwan, which is the nicer, cleaner, friendlier and more intelligent China, or maybe enjoy the Chinese in Malaysia.

I think Vietnam, Thailand or Malaysia would be better for digital nomads in SEA, while Japan or Korea if you want a properly developed country.

From what I've heard, I'm not a fan of Philippines or Indonesia, and after having visited Cambodia, as well as a friend of mine visiting separately, we both thought it was a bad choice if you are anything above average intelligence because it seemed that Pol Pott killed nearly everyone there over 80 IQ.
 
TLDR; yes

I lived there for a while and saw different phases or periods of what it was like, as well as hearing from older expats what it was like before I got there. I left a few years before covid, so there have been drastic changes since then, but China is promoting Western tourism and being a digital nomad there is possible with two major things to deal with: your visa and the internet access.

===============================================================
1990'is - 2001'ish: the golden years when food was cheaper and cleaner and the locals treated foreigners with some deference. Although this has changed, Chinese will still treat white foreigners much better than they treat each other because they know we're nice compared to them. They think we're lovable fools, like big children.

2002 - 2007: a transition between the golden years and the 2008 summer olympics, where the country was trying to open to the West and also normalize it's internal conditions. For most Western foreigners, this was still a time of easy access to visas, but that ended Dec. 31, 2007 in a lead-up of crackdowns before the Olympics because China was afraid of any kind of losing face.

When the Olympic torch was going around Europe, people had protested about Tibet and China can't handle this kind of exposure or embarrassment. This is an example of how they can crack down any time, which should be considered a risk if you're thinking of living there.

2008 - 2011: the transition from the easy times around the big cities and Wild West everywhere else, where foreigners began to get treated as locals do each other in business, meaning round eyes got their companies stolen from you just like the locals do to other Chinese. Taxes begun to be enforced more strictly for everyone.

Hong Kong was no longer any good (like it used to be), and the gutter oil was flowing freely in the "cheap" food. Baby milk powder scandal, etc.

2012 - 2019 Xi: Jin Ping crushes all the openers and reformers and also kicks off with a big anti-foreigner campaign in May 2012 aimed at Brits, Americans, and Japanese, that included almost a year of difficulty getting visas for those Western countries and many others. This was punctuated by anti-Japanese riots that resulted in a few deaths of foreigners as well as locals, who were driving Hondas.

Attempts at soft power propaganda failed, so they hired Western companies to portray China as wonderful, as well as paying Western influencers to galivant around the country not noticing all the reasons why China is the worst country in the world for traveling.

2015, Sept: Xi Jin Ping had his massive commie celebration where all factories were closed in about a 30 mile radius around Beijing for over a month so the skies would be blue. This sent the message to foreign investors and factory owners that they would be caught up in such idiocy no matter how hard they worked at following rules. Another example of the kind of crackdown that can occur that could interrupt any plans you have of living there and making money.

2020-2022/23: Covid lockdowns were initiated like many of the future dystopian movies have described. Their electronic surveillance and control grid was developed and improved, and because of Xi's destruction of his own economy for the Zero Covid policy, there is no reason to think this could not happen again at any time. This was Xi's equivalent of The Great Leap forward as far as blunders go and he's still in power.

2024 - present: trying to get back to normal and being more inviting to Western tourism and investment, but the trend for foreigners is pulling out and putting their globalization factories elsewhere.

===============================================================

When I was there, Americans could easily get 1 year tourist visas (probably still can) and I did not hear of people worrying about what the govt would think about your being there without paying taxes because you were apparently not working a Chinese job. If you actually get a job there, your taxes will be taken out by your employer even if you don't have legit paper work.

Never heard of them tracking down a digital nomad living there and making him pay taxes or get a work visa. Things may have changed, but if they were going to do that to anyone, I would have expected them to use that against foreign Youtubers serpentza or laowhy86, but they never did, although that was circa 2019.

That said, the govt definitely monitors all foreigners and of course, if you are well-known online and say negative things about the CCP, then you'll be under stricter surveillance than normal, although you might never see it if you don't actually do anything too stupid.

Internet access is restricted and VPN's have been necessary since 2012 in order to get to non-Chinese web sites worth going to. VPN's are technically illegal for locals or foreigners to use un-licensed, only big companies, financials, and higher tier hotels have licensed VPNs, but many people use them, especially as so many Chinese have become world travelers.

The govt has spent a lot of energy on being able to monitor and block VPN's when they need to, such as during big political events, June 4 (Tianmen) commemorations, etc., and they do deep packet inspection, so you gotta be tech savvy if you actually care about privacy. However, you can still run a VPN without fear of getting into trouble, although a few times a year it won't work and you may have to switch brands often.

China can be cheap if you want to live in a so-so apartment and aren't aware of how badly the food is adulterated and how that is gradually affecting your health. So you can "save money" and eat the same contaminated stuff the Chinese eat, but you're burning years off your life 2:1.

The air is also heavily polluted with particulates and that bothers some people more than others. I knew plenty of foreigners and locals with persistent bronchitis that would not clear up until they got out of the country for several weeks. The water is so bad that everyone knows not to drink it, but you still gotta bathe in it. I was in an apartment for a year where they "fixed" the water system and it was so bad it ruined all my sheets and towels because they were cotton.

In addition to the material toxicity, the spiritual and emotional toxicity is pretty bad. Chinese are living in a fundamentally abusive society and are angry and contemptuous of each other, for which they have developed massive coping mechanisms of how they interact, which has a façade of impassivity and politeness, but is essentially about minimizing contact and being "closed" or unfriendly, even when smiling.

Most foreigners get burned out by a combination of all these material and spiritual toxins within two or three years and those who stay longer will often suffer eye problems (my guess is because of the pesticide contamination), and eventually leave for mental and physical health reasons.

I don't think China is a good choice for more than 6 - 12 months because of all the hidden dangers I've mentioned. The exception would be if you are conversant in Mandarin prior to going, or become so within a few months of arriving, and have some kind of social circle where you live. Those are the foreigners I knew who really thrived long-term.

If you want the Chinese experience, go to Taiwan, which is the nicer, cleaner, friendlier and more intelligent China, or maybe enjoy the Chinese in Malaysia.

I think Vietnam, Thailand or Malaysia would be better for digital nomads in SEA, while Japan or Korea if you want a properly developed country.

From what I've heard, I'm not a fan of Philippines or Indonesia, and after having visited Cambodia, as well as a friend of mine visiting separately, we both thought it was a bad choice if you are anything above average intelligence because it seemed that Pol Pott killed nearly everyone there over 80 IQ.

Good rundown, but YMMV, I would disagree on many items, including the quality of the food and the pollution levels which are way lower today than in the 2000s (caveat: I haven't been back since covid, but even in the late 2010s the air quality was way better than before, and now it has apparently further improved due to half the car fleet being EVs and regulations pushing polluting industry outside the cities). You sound like you've burned out on China, my experience as a visitor and business traveler was pretty good, partly because I also had good local guides and a year of Mandarin in college.

China is the cheapest place in Asia/SEA in terms of value, you have first world facilities for prices that are closer to SEA. Taiwan is OK, but rents/real estate is more expensive by regional standards, in line with the top tier 1 Chinese cities (for Taipei at least) but feel a lot more provincial. If you want a clean first world somewhat westernized east Asian experience, Japan is now just as cheap as Taiwan and less boring.

One area I would recommend is Penang in the north of Malaysia, locals are split Chinese and Malay with some Indians sprinkled in, less than majority Muslim, with a large expat community (UK, US, Europe) and active church life. Midsize city that feels small, very affordable/cheap, nice preserved older neighborhoods and sites, nature areas and modern amenities, great cuisine (choice of Malay, Chinese, Indian and some western options), cheap food and housing. No slums (unlike in the Philippines), friendly locals, safe place. You can get by with English, though it helps to learn a few sentences in the local language, which is also close to Indonesian, a primitive language that isn't hard to learn. There are direct flights from Penang to Singapore, Phuket, Bangkok etc.
 
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Good rundown, but YMMV, I would disagree on many items
I love hearing good news out of China, but I do notice things.

It's cool that you had such a good time and didn't have enough, or perhaps any, bad experiences while traveling that soured you.

Did you never get turned away from a hotel for which you had already paid because when you showed up someone at the desk said they don't serve foreigners? This is not exactly common, but it's certainly not rare. It happened to me and also to just about every foreigner I followed online who traveled there much.

Sometimes you just go down a few doors to another place. Sometimes it's raining, your bags are heavy and it takes you hours to find another hotel.

I knew a lady in Hainan this happened to so often that she made a blog about showing Chinese hotel clerks how to use the police registration system provided for their check-in service because, instead of clicking a few buttons, they would just try and turn her away. She was budget minded, so these were 3 star places at best, but still I heard of this happening in 4 and 5 stars, some of which turned out to be fake versions of a name brand chain.

You sound like you've burned out on China
At least I'm not burnt out the way this lady was after her 18 y.o. hotpot waiter dumped gallons of boiling water on her because she left a negative comment about him for the restaurant's Wechat. There was another incident like this in the news around the same time, not to mention all the accidental burnings.

View attachment Hot Pot Restaurant Waiter Pours Boiling Water on Customer v=gWFGBId7B_E.mp4



At some point, every foreigner gets burnt out on China and leaves. A tiny fraction remain there willingly until the end.

including the quality of the food
The higher tier restaurants were good quality and good value in my experience up until around 2012. After that, it was hit or miss in Guangzhou and I just gave up on them for the most part, and only went on special recommendation, but most foreigners do not eat at those for the majority of their meals. Last few years I was there, I ate almost exclusively at foreign-owned restaurants for the meals I did not cook myself.

One area I would recommend is Penang in the north of Malaysia, locals are split Chinese and Malay with some Indians sprinkled in, less than majority Muslim, with a large expat community (UK, US, Europe) and active church life.
Yes! I spent about a week there and loved it. Was definitely my favorite place in Malaysia and probably in all of SEA that I visited.
 
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