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Proof that the Christian Church is the True Israel

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Christos_NIKA

Christos_NIKA

Orthodox
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I am NOT a Biblical scholar...just a devout follower of Christ. However, I know there are more Bible verses and quotes from the Saints and Church Fathers that discuss this matter, so hopefully those of you with more information, knowledge, citations, etc. can help fill in this picture more clearly. For example, verses from the Old Testament would be a great addition. I hope in this way, we can reach more confused Christians, Messianic Jews, as well as "those who call themselves Jews, but are not", with this message. There is great blessing and love in this Gospel message that needs to get out.

This subject comes up increasingly often, and given the massive lack of understand and thorough confusion on the subject, especially among western Christians, I thought this deserved its own thread so it can be explored more directly. This subject has weighed heavily on my soul as well, and I think it's time to address this clearly, in plain language.

As I mentioned in the Arab-Israeli thread here (http://christisking.eu/index.php?threads/the-arab-israeli-conflict.10/post-1023), this subject needs further exploration, but I do not wish to side-track that thread, either.
 
John8:39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus *said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, you would do the deeds of Abraham. 40But now you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God. This Abraham did not do. 41You are doing the deeds of your father.”
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Abraham was chosen by God and God's promises to him are passed down covenantally. Abraham is the type of what it means to be a Jew. What does it mean to be a Jew? To do the works of Abraham. What did Abraham do? He loved the Son of God. Anyone who claims to be a Jew but seeks to kill the Son of God is not a truly a Jew but a covenant breaker.
 
Abraham was not a Jew, which as a tribe didn't come into being until many generations later through Eber/Heber. Abraham was a Sumerian from the Land of the Chaldees/Ur. The fact that he was a monotheist who listened and spoke with God Almighty, when the surrounding culture was polytheistic pagans, set him apart and was counted as righteousness to him.
 
This is why I was careful to describe him as the type of what it means to be a Jew, knowing that the tribe of Judah came after him.
 
Edelweiss said:
What are messianic jews?
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Brother Nathanael described them as a hodgepodge of Evangelical Theology and Jewish ritual, basically "Baptists with yamakas on." I was considering visiting a local Messianic Christian Church once, out of curiosity, but when I saw that the service would be held in two languages I lost all interest.
 
Edelweiss said:
What are messianic jews?
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IMO they are basically modern versions of the Judaisers from the Book of Acts. LARPers who think that unless they follow jewish rituals and read a strange "hebrew-ised" recreation of the Bible, they are not getting the "real Christianity". They insist on using Hebrew terms for all sorts of things in the Bible, including the New Testament, and it's all over their "Orthodox Jewish Bible". It's very tedious and pretentious. Here is an example:

Screen Shot 2023-10-20 at 17.02.53 PM.png
 
Christos_NIKA said:
IMO they are basically modern versions of the Judaisers from the Book of Acts. LARPers who think that unless they follow jewish rituals and read a strange "hebrew-ised" recreation of the Bible, they are not getting the "real Christianity". They insist on using Hebrew terms for all sorts of things in the Bible, including the New Testament, and it's all over their "Orthodox Jewish Bible". It's very tedious and pretentious. Here is an example:

Screen Shot 2023-10-20 at 17.02.53 PM.png
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Technically, this seems correct, but instead of allowing interpretation to transcribe the text, they just write everything down in literal form so it can all be referenced back to the OT. Yeah, there's a reason Jesus did not speak like this LOL.

That said, I do not think anything ill of messianic Jews, because at least they are on the path to salvation, but, they are fiercely unwilling to give up their identity which of course will make it difficult for them to truly embrace Christ - which I suppose one could make the same criticism of the Greek Orthodox Church.

Another big problem with Messianic Jews is that they do not really have tradition, other than their Talmudic tradition. It will carry some ability for them to understand Christ but not fully. I suppose they will have more luck than your average Protestant, however.

And of course they lack the Apostolic Holy Spirit to guide their Church, which means it will be very difficult for them to survive the test of time.
 
One fine example of how Jesus is Israel, just to address the OP.

When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son.
--Hosea 11:1

Refers to God's people called out of slavery in Egypt.

And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”
--Matthew 2:14-15

Referring to Jesus as God's son, called out of Egypt.

Jesus == Israel.

It follows that anyone in Christ is also in Israel

Also:

Romans 11:17-22 St. Paul talks about Gentiles grafted into the tree. Note that "Israel" is God's people by faith, from Abraham until today. Israel is the tree in this image, it's a continuous "thing", and believing Gentiles were grafted in and unbelieving Jews were dead branches pruned off. You can't pile up a bunch of dead, pruned branches and say, "well, looky here, it's Israel!" in a variation of the "ship of Theseus" philosophical exercise.
 
Paul says in Galatians that the promises of God were made to Abraham and to his seed (singular, not plural). Christ is this seed and the True Israel. The New Covenant is in Christ's blood. Anyone who is in the New Covenant is in Christ and is a member of the True Israel.

The Jews cannot see themselves as anything but Israel. This is why they reinterpret Messianic prophecies to apply to themselves. They believe that they, not Christ, are the Suffering Servant who suffers for the sins of the world. This is also why they believe they have the right to rule the world.
 
^ Yep Galatians 3 is a good one for this topic:

5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.


26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
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Pretty clear cut stuff. Another good one is the Parable of the Wicked Tenants, Matthew 21:

33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.
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As well as the parable of the wedding, Matthew 22:

22 And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.” ’ 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. 7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.
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All of Christendom had this view of "the church is now true Israel" until John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Scofield cooked up Dispensationalism in the 19th century to aid the Zionist cause, and fooled American Christians ever since.

A nice dissertation would be "The Multifarious Heresies Emerging from 19th Century American Christianity" Maybe start a thread here.
 
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Some of this stuff is actually quite clear and obvious to anyone just plainly looking at the history and texts that no one denies. For example, the northern kingdom (called Israel) was lost as God gave them up to invading armies (sound familiar?), due to their/their kings wicked ways and setting up of idols. Why are they not Israel any longer? Because we can't distinguish them? Ahh yes, that's what the Samaritans became, an offshoot group. But think of it, if you are disobedient to God and do not respond to Him as did Abraham, with faithfulness, then you are given up, scattered, destroyed. That's exactly what happened to Judah, and the remnant of that group is thus now called the judeans/"jews" because they did not accept God and see Him and His mercy with faith and love.
 
Suburban Yahoo said:
All of Christendom had this view of "the church is now true Israel" until John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Schofield cooked up Dispensationalism in the 19th century to aid the Zionist cause, and fooled American Christians ever since.

A nice dissertation would be "The Multifarious Heresies Emerging from 19th Century American Christianity" Maybe start a thread here.
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Was the origin or support of this from the banksters? I don't know where they got this nonsense from, but it sounds like an easy guess.
 
I wonder how much of "conservative" Bible-believing Christian churches in America hold to some degree of Dispensationalist theology. My guess would be a lot. It really made an impact when it was introduced in the 19th century. From a theological perspective it think it overcomplicates the message of Scripture, in that those who hold to it can't see Christ in the Old Testament. Their hermeneutics are too literal.
 

Who Is The New Israel | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

Again Magazine Volume 12 Number 4 December 1989 Page 25-28 WHO IS THE NEW ISRAEL By John W. Morris, PH.D On May 14, 1948, thirty-eight people gathered in Tel Aviv to establish the modern state of Israel.
ww1.antiochian.org

There’s some helpful information on this page I bookmarked from when I was a catechumen. Including the promise that Israel would return to the promised land already having been fulfilled.
 
Rodion said:

Who Is The New Israel | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

Again Magazine Volume 12 Number 4 December 1989 Page 25-28 WHO IS THE NEW ISRAEL By John W. Morris, PH.D On May 14, 1948, thirty-eight people gathered in Tel Aviv to establish the modern state of Israel.
ww1.antiochian.org

There’s some helpful information on this page I bookmarked from when I was a catechumen. Including the promise that Israel would return to the promised land already having been fulfilled.
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That's a good one, in that many people pull the older "prophecies" out of context and apply them moving forward (in this case the author shows that Jeremiah was fulfilled and it even told you that in the book of Ezra) as if they didn't already happen.
 
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