Proof that the Christian Church is the True Israel
- Thread starter Let God Arise
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Found it. He also says that they don't mention the cross, the Trinity, and God becoming man, as it triggers Jews and scares them off.
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Romans 11 is a good one too, it uses a vine and branches as an analogy, so it says the Jews have been cut off from the vine (God) and that the church (all nations) have been grafted into the vine, so that mean the church is Gods people and thay includes Jews who believe in Christ and have been baptized, there is also a warning there that we can also be cut off just the way the Jews were cut off
Jeremiah Branch
Orthodox Catechumen
It is clear from most of the New Testament, as supported by prophecy from the Old (e.g. Hosea 9:25), that the church is the new Israel.
There are specific passages, however, where it is clear that the nation of Israel, or Jews as a people, are being spoken of, most notably Romans chaps. 9-11. (Parts of chapter 9 can be interpreted as talking about the church, but most of those chapters clearly are speaking of the nation of Israel.)
Even there, from our modern perspective, how is this idea of Israel as a nation, Jews as a people, to be applied? The Jews who Paul was speaking of were not the modern day state of Israel, which is a hodge-podge of multiple ethnic groups calling themselves Jews, but who may or may not -- and to very varying degrees -- have an ethnic link with the Israelites of the ancient world. Shlmomo Sand ("The Invention of the Jewish People") made the case that "Jews" is a completely made up thing in the modern world that has extremely tenuous ties, if any, to ancient Israelites.
There are specific passages, however, where it is clear that the nation of Israel, or Jews as a people, are being spoken of, most notably Romans chaps. 9-11. (Parts of chapter 9 can be interpreted as talking about the church, but most of those chapters clearly are speaking of the nation of Israel.)
Even there, from our modern perspective, how is this idea of Israel as a nation, Jews as a people, to be applied? The Jews who Paul was speaking of were not the modern day state of Israel, which is a hodge-podge of multiple ethnic groups calling themselves Jews, but who may or may not -- and to very varying degrees -- have an ethnic link with the Israelites of the ancient world. Shlmomo Sand ("The Invention of the Jewish People") made the case that "Jews" is a completely made up thing in the modern world that has extremely tenuous ties, if any, to ancient Israelites.
Israel = He who struggles with god. You have to be struggling which admits sinners into the fold. Christianity and the church teaches the war against sin. Israel is not “he who plays lawyer ball with god”
Acts 4:23 So when they were released, they went to their own companions and reported all that the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24And when they heard this, they lifted their voices to God with one accord and said, “O Master, it is You who MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH AND THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM, 25who by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said, ‘WHY DID THE GENTILES RAGE, AND THE PEOPLES DEVISE VAIN THINGS? 26 THE KINGS OF THE EARTH TOOK THEIR STAND, AND THE RULERS WERE GATHERED TOGETHER AGAINST THE LORD AND AGAINST HIS CHRIST.’ 27 For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. 29And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your slaves may speak Your word with all confidence, 30while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders happen through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”
It should be noted that for the Apostles, gentiles are those who reject Yahweh. The jewish leaders were as much gentiles as the pagans because they did not worship Yahweh who revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ.
It should be noted that for the Apostles, gentiles are those who reject Yahweh. The jewish leaders were as much gentiles as the pagans because they did not worship Yahweh who revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ.
That’s interesting, I read the Canons of St John the Faster, which appeared to refer to non-Christians as gentiles
Is there any analogy to be drawn (or church teachings) from the story of Jacob, who would be named Israel, and Esau, the firstborn son of Isaac who rejected his birthright? When I read Matthew 22, regarding the wedding guests who ignored the king’s invitation, I think of that.
I’ve looked into both Islam and Judaism because they’re considered abrahamic faiths like ours. Despite what our Protestant brothers and sisters say about Orthodoxy and Catholicism it’s still very faith driven unless you get into the “little old lady folk religion” variant which nobody with a proper catechism believes. Being Israel is about believing in the covenant God made with the world and struggling to live up to that covenant.
Christianity is all about faith. Islam is all about works. Judaism is all about law.
Judaism is a legalistic way of life for a specific people which as I mentioned in another post have a specific origin. And it’s probably why so many of them do so well in the legal scene. But many don’t even believe in the god that made that covenant with Moses or ask “why was it made?”