Peak Fertility For Women and Men

[TrainedLogosmotion]

I'm 35. Been talking to a girl that's 25. Christian, no vax, homeschooled, conservative, good-looking, lives with her parents, and all that good stuff.

But honestly she feels too old already. Old in the sense of she's still absorbed so much nonsense from Hollywood, social media, new age books, career-driven work culture, etc, and she's clearly infected with cluster B issues that seems to spread like a mind virus with modern females.

After a certain amount of programming, it's hard to detach them from their web of interest. I've said it before but once women get entrenched with friend groups they seem to really cling to them despite however uninspiring and spiritually stifling these relationships are for them (Just think how mothers defend their children even under the most blameworthy circumstances and continually push for reconciliation between unwilling siblings).

Also she just feels too old physically too. I know it's been said before and obvious but worth repeating. The peak fertility years are YOUNG. Gaming/pickup for dalliance and ONS body counts is a different ball game (Highly unrecommended). When kids and homemaking is the priority, why take on the risk for less than ideal offspring especially if we are a man that has his life well put together?!

But again it's not just the physical in my eyes but also the influence of clown world over time. At some point the amount of effort becomes not worth it after a cost benefit analysis.

18-20 would be a lot better, striking before college indoctrination or work rigmarole. One of the main ways around this social taboo is to control for their family/friends. And I don't mean this is any sort of weird way.

Some of the ways to do this are to create a healthy distance, find an introvert, have a foreign wife moved here, or relocate somewhere together whether she is foreign or domestic. There's also pressure from our own family also though, so again overseas becomes a winning scenario.

I want a WIFE to have healthy children with and be a homemaker that will follow my lead and submit. I don't want a best friend or someone that's my 'equal'.

And this calls to mind the stupid egalitarian mindset of worrying that the girl and I will be unable to relate to each other because of the age gap. This is just nonsense.

For instance, is it a problem for me to have friends that are in their 80s? Of course not! I've never found that to be the case that we are unable to bond with each other. It simply doesn't matter. The only reason this matters to people (Feminists and losers mostly) is for the wrong reasons or they just have their minds in the gutter by jumping to grooming and pedo crap.

Just some thoughts. I'm guessing this is going to trigger some people on here because they've made different choices in life. To that I'd say, yes but to your yes but.

Perhaps I should take a break from the deep cutting I'm doing in this thread. I will say I've been a bit negative.

But the title of the thread is "Destruction of Modern Women". If we have a new thread titled "Destruction of Modern Men" I'm not going to go disliking comments that ring true just because they hurt my feelings or aren't expressed eloquently/softly.

If I recall correctly, isn't Starlight the one that went back and forth with you @Bladerunner on this topic? I'm really curious what is the disagreement with anything I've said?

I will take a chill pill in the meantime. Too much reading and reinforcing bad news followed by posting lol. Time for a break. I've been posting way too much lately.

From the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists website:

My understanding is that the highest level of fertility is at late teens and then it declines. Is that wrong? Am I to believe that late teens is exactly equal to late 20s? Or that somehow 24 (6-7 years after late teens) is peak fertility? Is it a bell curve starting at late teens, peaking at 24, and curving down into 30s? I would imagine it's a straight line down from late teens to 30s...

Lastly, this overlooks the point that even if I marry a girl who is 24, that's MAYBE six years to have children at a reduced risk (Compared to the ideal, whatever that may be). Wouldn't it be more wise to begin this at 20 for example? My original comments weren't solely about fertility. It's a combination of factors where 18-20 makes most sense.

God wants us to have healthy children and wants enough time to do that. Peak fertility at 24 with a sharp drop-off at 30 doesn't make sense to me.

YOUNG is accurate. Even 24 is young. But this is multifactorial also. My original point was addressing a combination of factors before I considered what is hypothetically ideal.

Is that how it works? We just take the average? I'm honestly asking. I'm not crying about the downvote, I just knew why you downvoted it and I remembered this circular argument on the old forum between you and Blade Runner. You just don't seem to get the drift of this topic.

 

[TrainedLogosmotion]

So peak fertility is at 24, 11-12 years after pregnancy begins and when the eggs have drastically declined?

And I really don't agree with the chart creator's bias writing "optimal fertility" 18-31. I don't interpret the information this way.

On average, late teens is peak fertility because the reproductive organs are fully materialized and egg count is also higher.

@starlight I agree this is lame to have to communicate this way. Perhaps you can lead the charge on a "Destruction of Modern Men" thread and make it a women's thread? Lol.

@starlight one last thing for now. I didn't say they should get pregnant at first period. I just shared the information regarding the fact that they are able to. Keep in mind also that when I share things, it also doesn't mean I agree with everything written or charted. It's only to use as a reference.

 

[Samseau]

For those looking to conceive - what is the best time to get pregnant?

 

[scorpion]

It's important to precisely define the term 'fertility' in this case. When starlight says, "statistically, the height of female fertility is 24", she could be referring to fertility in a demographic sense, meaning that in aggregate, 24 year-old women have more babies than women of any other age. And that is one way to describe "the age of peak fertility". But if you're considering fertility from a straight biological perspective, meaning the ability and ease with which an individual woman can conceive and successfully carry a child, then it seems much more likely somewhere between the age of 16-20.

 

[Blade Runner]

It's important to precisely define the term 'fertility' in this case. When starlight says, "statistically, the height of female fertility is 24", she could be referring to fertility in a demographic sense, meaning that in aggregate, 24 year-old women have more babies than women of any other age. And that is one way to describe "the age of peak fertility". But if you're considering fertility from a straight biological perspective, meaning the ability and ease with which an individual woman can conceive and successfully carry a child, then it seems much more likely somewhere between the age of 16-20.

Yes, the terms get confusing because there are also several definitions of fecundity, which is absolutely capacity for children regardless of intention, something I think we are talking about here. I can't put words in anyone's mouth, but I don't think a woman would try to argue that the height of possible pregnancy (let's say with all partners) wouldn't be the highest at 18 vs 24. Even anecdotal evidence is in 18 year old's favor, as is "common sense."

The question(s) we'll keep coming back to are "Why the delay?" or "What's more important than family?" If we answer those honestly, we see that they are just reasons to try to cheat the system or have fun. Of course, structures do need to be in place regarding marriage such that it isn't easy to eject from, for everybody.

As Teddy K said, most things people pursue are about the "power process" and almost all are "surrogate activities". That is, what most people do is practically speaking, meaningless. And that's why they are always unfulfilled at the end. It's quite genius, because it quite clearly leads to recognizing God as the only fulfilling thing, but he thought that going back to longer, harder work in a primitive society would do that instead, which in ways might be better (more annoying distractions?) but still wouldn't fulfill man for reasons we know.

 

[Northumber]

Just a short comment. Health greatly affects fertility. And I mean health in a wholistic sense. No birth control, no meds, no anxiety pills, good diet, good water, good environment, no microplastics in the system, good emotional well-being. It all adds up and affects fertility. If a woman (and/or a guy) is graced with all those things fertility is much better for much longer. All those estimates and charts being posted are based off averages and statistics. It's fine, it gives an idea, but I don't think it's completely representative of all possibilities.

@TrainedLogosmotion, you mentioned she is an old 25. I assume the health is not the greatest? I'm surprised that many in the homeschool crowd have not connected on the fact they should be keeping crap out of their body, but I know quite a few families that will still roll up to the fast food joints quite often.

 

[TrainedLogosmotion]

@TrainedLogosmotion, you mentioned she is an old 25. I assume the health is not the greatest? I'm surprised that many in the homeschool crowd have not connected on the fact they should be keeping crap out of their body, but I know quite a few families that will still roll up to the fast food joints quite often.

Yeah the health aspect is important and I mentioned it elsewhere. But basically she doesn't sleep at all and appears very high strung. She's got a low end menial job that requires crazy hours and she's freaking out over it. Also taking care of her sibling's child because her sibling is also the same way. She said she keeps getting sick.

I mean I feel bad for her but I feel like I'll end up playing doctor and therapist with this situation. I need someone who is calm-natured and has their health under control. I've had sleep issues myself in the past but she's saying she's pulling multiple all nighters due to being so worked up. I've never had it that bad. That can't be good for fertility. And her low immunity could cause not only her to get sick but others in the house as well.

I was imagining what it would be like managing our sleep situation taking care of kids with her not being able to sleep. This would probably not be a good situation.

God bless her and her family. I have stopped talking to her. There's certain things I'm willing to work with. I was willing to work with her being protestant which is a huge deal. That wasn't going to be easy. It was really these apparent health/mental issues and the fact that she's using her prime motherhood/fertility/caregiving years to take care of her sibling's child.

This is probably one of the best prospects I've ever had honestly. So it's sad to give up. I had a lot of hope for this one.

Hopefully I can find someone that's a better fit. Orthodox. Health in check. Maybe slightly younger closer to 20.

 

[Samseau]

Also taking care of her sibling's child because her sibling is also the same way. She said she keeps getting sick.

This is an excellent woman with a heart of gold tbh.

You should ask her why she works so much, what is she saving for, or what she is spending her money on? You throw in the towel too quickly, always give a good woman a chance to change before dumping her.

 

[analyst_green]

A woman's eggs are definitely highest at birth, but I wouldn't worry too much about fertility until they hit 30.

"A multicenter French study involving 2,193 patients with azoospermic husbands demonstrated a significant decline in pregnancy rates for women aged 30 and older. The cumulative success rates after 12 cycles of insemination were 73% for women under age 25, 74% in women aged 26-30, 61% for ages 31-35, and 54% in the over 35 age group."

Age And Infertility: The Biological Clock: Fact Or Fiction?

 

[starlight]

First off, fertility doesn't just mean conceptions, it means *live* births... and, more importantly, healthy offspring.

The age of 24 is (statistically) the most fertile year because it has the highest conception rate with the lowest pregnancy risk and the highest live births and APGAR score by percentage.

My main grievance is with the belief that 16 year girls are at the "height" of their fertility which is just not true or correct in any sense.

Any pregnancy below the age of 19 is an "at risk pregnancy" because the general risks of pregnancy are *significantly* higher for this group. Why? Because their bodies aren't ready to actually carry a pregnancy to term... Their bodies are still growing. Pregnant teen girls have *significantly* higher rates of pre-eclampsia, hyper-tension, pre-mature birth, low infant weight, and low infant APGAR scores, whereas early twenties women have the lowest pregnancy risks and best infant outcomes.

 

[SeekingTruth]

First off, fertility doesn't just mean conceptions, it means *live* births... and, more importantly, healthy offspring.

The age of 24 is (statistically) the most fertile year because it has the highest conception rate with the lowest pregnancy risk and the highest live births and APGAR score by percentage.

My main grievance is with the belief that 16 year girls are at the "height" of their fertility which is just not true or correct in any sense.

Any pregnancy below the age of 19 is an "at risk pregnancy" because the general risks of pregnancy are *significantly* higher for this group. Why? Because their bodies aren't ready to actually carry a pregnancy to term... Their bodies are still growing. Pregnant teen girls have *significantly* higher rates of pre-eclampsia, hyper-tension, pre-mature birth, low infant weight, and low infant APGAR scores, whereas early twenties women have the lowest pregnancy risks and best infant outcomes.

Where is your source for this information? Is it real or from clown world?

 

[starlight]

Where is your source for this information? Is it real or from clown world?

Do you have sources that contradict this information?

 

[TheLearningWife]

Pregnant teen girls have *significantly* higher rates of pre-eclampsia, hyper-tension, pre-mature birth, low infant weight, and low infant APGAR scores, whereas early twenties women have the lowest pregnancy risks and best infant outcomes.

I wonder if this reflects lower socioeconomic lifestyle or race factors, given that teen pregnancies are at historic lows. Black women have higher rates of these than other groups, for example.

 

[Bird]

Do you have sources that contradict this information?

Answering a question with a question is not a real answer. Can you provide a source for the information you provide here?

 

[Blade Runner]

Pregnant teen girls have *significantly* higher rates of pre-eclampsia, hyper-tension, pre-mature birth, low infant weight, and low infant APGAR scores, whereas early twenties women have the lowest pregnancy risks and best infant outcomes.

I wonder if this reflects lower socioeconomic lifestyle or race factors, given that teen pregnancies are at historic lows. Black women have higher rates of these than other groups, for example.

That's exactly what I was going to say. There is a possibility that what starlight says is true, but it would never be the null hypothesis, from a purely biological or evolutionary point of view. Either way, by the way, early marriage would still be recommended and then waiting, which is also against this feminist imperative. Back to the point - most girls who have teen pregnancies are broken families and/or black, and low IQ for decades now. You would never be able to tease any of this out of the data, especially since categorization and diagnosis such as "eclampsia" or pre eclampsia etc are all modern, as well. Those are all hallmarks of inner city black women, or other low socioeconomic people, who have been aided to continue the dysgenic process, through welfare and modern medical advances or techniques.

 

[starlight]

Answering a question with a question is not a real answer. Can you provide a source for the information you provide here?

-Early 20s as best age for fertility source: https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/17/5/1399/845579

-Teen pregnancy risks sources:

Pregnancy before 16 increases long-term health complications for girls and babies | Pediatrics | Your Pregnancy Matters | UT Southwestern Medical Center

UTSW researchers found that pregnant girls 15 and younger face steeper health risks than older patients. Learn about our new program to support them, driven by data and community need.

utswmed.org

Adolescent Pregnancy Outcomes and Risk Factors

One of the major social and public health problems in the world is adolescent pregnancy. Adolescent pregnancy is strongly associated to less favorable results for both the mother and the newborn. We conducted this research to ascertain the impact of teenage ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And there really is a plethora of sources that reiterate these same studies especially regarding early 20s as the optimal time for pregnancy.

 

[Blade Runner]

-Early 20s as best age for fertility source: https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/17/5/1399/845579

-Teen pregnancy risks sources:

Pregnancy before 16 increases long-term health complications for girls and babies | Pediatrics | Your Pregnancy Matters | UT Southwestern Medical Center

UTSW researchers found that pregnant girls 15 and younger face steeper health risks than older patients. Learn about our new program to support them, driven by data and community need.

utswmed.org

Adolescent Pregnancy Outcomes and Risk Factors

One of the major social and public health problems in the world is adolescent pregnancy. Adolescent pregnancy is strongly associated to less favorable results for both the mother and the newborn. We conducted this research to ascertain the impact of teenage ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And there really is a plethora of sources that reiterate these same studies especially regarding early 20s as the optimal time for pregnancy.

Again, these articles make special mentions of our points.

Also, 16 is irrelevant, since no one can even act on that if they wanted to, big picture. We can't even get the society to be OK with age gaps for 20 somethings, so it's funny to talk about "teen pregnancies" as if they are happening to normal, responsible people or otherwise.

 

[TheLearningWife]

It seems like everyone agrees, but perhaps are caught on a technicality.

When I think of “peak fertility” I think 16-23, on average, and that it follows the decline in effortless physical beauty that accelerates around age 25 (race, lifestyle, etc dependent). You can just look at a woman and tell sometimes. Many studies around ovulation also support this (like people’s perception changes). On the other hand, no one wants a 10 year old pregnant just because it can technically happen, and in these cases, yes complications can occur from conception to birth, despite the onset of puberty, and ya that’s gross. For the sake of the discussion, I think 16 is an ok starting point (not to comment on the legality of that) historically and even from that trashy show 16 and pregnant. I don’t remember if any of those girls had complications due to their age, but there’s a modern sample size lol.

A woman can easily have 3-5 kids by 30, breastfeeding in between, and all without the label of “geriatric pregnancy”, something not likely if you are starting at 30. So if that is important to you, you cannot entertain a 32 year old. Yes, there are exceptions, but you’re also losing out on the plasticity of personality, and % of life spent together, so that’s a wash as well. And those things are arguably just as important as fertility…

Personally, I think early 20s was perfect, for me, and that was the age of first baby for my moms side going back like 3 generations at least, in a Slavic country.

 

[starlight]

It seems like everyone agrees, but perhaps are caught on a technicality.

When I think of “peak fertility” I think 16-23, on average, and that it follows the decline in effortless physical beauty that accelerates around age 25 (race, lifestyle, etc dependent). You can just look at a woman and tell sometimes. Many studies around ovulation also support this (like people’s perception changes). On the other hand, no one wants a 10 year old pregnant just because it can technically happen, and in these cases, yes complications can occur from conception to birth, despite the onset of puberty, and ya that’s gross. For the sake of the discussion, I think 16 is an ok starting point (not to comment on the legality of that) historically and even from that trashy show 16 and pregnant. I don’t remember if any of those girls had complications due to their age, but there’s a modern sample size lol.

A woman can easily have 3-5 kids by 30, breastfeeding in between, and all without the label of “geriatric pregnancy”, something not likely if you are starting at 30. So if that is important to you, you cannot entertain a 32 year old. Yes, there are exceptions, but you’re also losing out on the plasticity of personality, and % of life spent together, so that’s a wash as well. And those things are arguably just as important as fertility…

Personally, I think early 20s was perfect, for me, and that was the age of first baby for my moms side going back like 3 generations at least, in a Slavic country.

Yes, I agree that we're getting hung up on the number 16 as if it's some kind magical checkpoint when really it's gradual over time. I don't see how it's a controversial stance to take that fertility rises dramatically after first menses until its peak in the early 20s, flowed by a plateau with a gradual decline until around age 35 where there is then a substantial drop off of fertility afterward, or that the inverse is true regarding the risks of pregnancy where they start out very high at first menses, declining until the early 20s where they are lowest and remain low with a gradual increase until around the age of 35 where risks begin to spike upwards again. Seems sensible to me.

Edit: I had my first two in my early 20s, third at 28, and fourth at 32. 20s were great, 28 pretty good, 32 was ok. I can't imagine what having a first pregnancy at 40+ would be like.

 

[Rax Moscow]

This topic seems to be broken off from another thread, so I cannot see the OP, but if someone asked me this in real life, my response would be "Why do you want to know?" In other words, what question are you really asking? Are you trying to know a numerical answer to a trivia question, or are you trying to get to the heart of a reproductive matter? If the latter, what reproductive matter is it?

Let's assume one can identify a specific age where a person is at their "peak fertility." So?

What does that mean? Does that mean one should become pregnant on that date? Why?

I don't really believe the charts above that says fertility *increases* from the time of first period for the first few years. For that to be true, there would need to be an explanation of what is going on to cause that (the explanation for constantly declining fertility is that the number of eggs is constantly declining).

But let's assume that is true. Let's say peak fertility is 24, and not 14 (I think it is probably 14 but the argument holds, whatever number you pick).

Why is that information valuable?

Is it difficult to become pregnant at age 19, or 22, or 26?
No. It is not. It's not even statistically significant. At the most, such a tiny variation is going to mean maybe you get pregnant a month earlier or later, once you start trying, versus any other age within your healthy fertility period. Totally meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Even if there were some biological advantage to having a baby at peak fertility, there are dozens of other factors which would overwhelm it. You are more economically and emotionally stable when you are older. You have more time once you have established yourself. The older one is, the wiser and calmer one will be dealing with children.

Conversely, there are some sociological reasons to have children earlier versus later (if the woman delays marriage to focus on a career, this impacts her emotionally and socially, and often ends up delaying childhood even more).

Incidentally, this is probably why the ancient adage "the ideal age for marriage is 18 in a woman and 37 in a man" came about, because you are getting the financial stability, wisdom, and resources from the man, and the fertility and biological stamina from the woman.

But obsessing over a pinpoint at the expense of all other data is silly. It's like those silly threads about "when does a man reach his peak attractiveness" and you have people arguing it's anywhere from 25 to 35 to 45. So what? Unless you are entering a beauty contest and want to do it on your 39th birthday when you supposedly have some tiny statistical advantage, why would that matter (and of course it wouldn't; the biggest factor is going to be the quality of your competition).

TLDR; Assuming the OP is asking "what timeframe is best for young women to become mothers", the answer is: "After marriage to their husband, between their teenage years and 30, after which the risk of birth defects and difficulties rises substantially, though a woman may remain fertile up until her 40s."