It seems to me that labour which is part of a trade/barter system is the only true currency in this world. If there is no work involved, nothing really occurred.
Money Creation and Central Banking
- Thread starter Read_Lives_of_Saints
- Start date
Yup! All value is derived from labor / human effort, which is an easy way to see when money is not serving its proper role.
When money can create more money without labor, it should be questioned.
Yes, only money backed by energy is real money, since that is what it is a representation of. The very essence of BTC is an energy requiring mechanism to approve transactions. It surpasses gold because it does not require centralization, thus trustless and permission-less. Only a local barter of gold could even come close to this, and even then you'd need trust through verification (coin, assay, etc) that are basically just good guesses that it's the legit element.
Andrew Tates brother isnt allowed to have a bank account, doesnt own a bank account.
Many people in Europe and the Anglosphere have had their bank accounts closed because of their politics, even some very mild ones.
Three years ago, the Canadian govt invoked emergency powers, meant for use against terrorists, to freeze the bank accounts of people who were protesting against Covid restrictions, as well as people who donated money to them, and even the family members of those people.
After most of the money is digital, it becomes very difficult to function without a bank account linked to your smartphone, which is how the social credit and covid controls work in China.
Why isn´t legislation passed to forbid banks to close accounts for political reasons? Or at best they could restrict accounts to basic operations receiving money and making payments. Did anyone already sued a bank which did this? In Europe there´s a list of fundamental services which have specific laws (water energy, phone, etc) I don´t think banks are included. For a bank to close an account for commercial reasons a much thougher process should be demanded for the bank. Banks are a fundamental service. And need specific law for consumers. It´s different than a restaurant, etc.
Trump son says they went into crypto because of debanking also. Trump is the president and has congress. Maybe he should do something about this. Instead of going around in the middle east doing whatever he is doing.
Play jew games win jew prizes. We have been conditioned by extetior technological (((forces))) to be slaves to money and material possessions. When your spirit and human form grows beyond excessive material need via some form of stripped down monkdom you have very little need for money, much less banks.
This is one reason why Christianity is so powerful, when you center your life around God and doing good works money becomes worthless and banks become irrelevant.
In the show alone. Most people would not last more than 60 days without civilization. One dude killed an ox. That guy would last longer.
Even living in the woods. There will always be a trip to local store buying stuff made by civilization. You always need civilization. The solutions to today problems need to be found within civilization. Civilization being society working together and finding solutions together. There´s no individual solution. The individualistic mindset will not work in a real crisis.
There´s an excessive materialism. People became slave to useless material possesions. Which in reality are worthless. The social pressure to get a new gadget who looks exactly like the previous one. phones, cars etc. I didnt change my iphone 4 I think. Until it stopped updating whatsapp. But once I had a client who bought me a recent iphone. I grabbed the phone he gave me and sold it to a friend and kept the iphone 4 or 7. It was a perfect phone. I would still use it if it updated. It worked perfectly.
It´s even worse cause nowadays new stuff is worse than old one. You are spending money and getting worse products.
Even living in the woods. There will always be a trip to local store buying stuff made by civilization. You always need civilization. The solutions to today problems need to be found within civilization. Civilization being society working together and finding solutions together. There´s no individual solution. The individualistic mindset will not work in a real crisis.
There´s an excessive materialism. People became slave to useless material possesions. Which in reality are worthless. The social pressure to get a new gadget who looks exactly like the previous one. phones, cars etc. I didnt change my iphone 4 I think. Until it stopped updating whatsapp. But once I had a client who bought me a recent iphone. I grabbed the phone he gave me and sold it to a friend and kept the iphone 4 or 7. It was a perfect phone. I would still use it if it updated. It worked perfectly.
It´s even worse cause nowadays new stuff is worse than old one. You are spending money and getting worse products.
This is the labor theory of value, but it really doesn't hold up. If you dig out a basement by hand instead of using a backhoe, it will take a lot more labor, but will the resulting hole be worth more? Worse still if you put a lot of labor into digging a hole then filling it in again. A lot of labor was spent, with nothing to show for it. That labor has produced no value at all.
In fact, the real value of things is what people are willing to pay for them. This can vary depending on many factors including scarcity.
Most of the problems people have with fiat currency and central banking are actually due to the abusive behaviors of the people running the system, rather than the shortcomings of the system itself. This is why Bitcoin is not any sort of panacea. To the exact same extent that Bitcoin poses a threat and wields any real economic power, it will be coopted, integrated and ultimately controlled by the same unscrupulous group of people. Believing otherwise is the height of delusion, hubris and naivete. Bitcoin may be a "perfect" monetary technology on paper, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum - it must be used in the real world by human beings, which is where human nature comes into play and ruins the whole thing. The idea that Bitcoin cannot and will not be corrupted is pure magical thinking without any basis in reality.
Always beware of utopian thinking in a fallen world. It will inevitably lead you astray (and away from Christ, for that matter).
Always beware of utopian thinking in a fallen world. It will inevitably lead you astray (and away from Christ, for that matter).
Laws are just words on paper. Look at any law or even a constitution: it is as flexible as the next "emergency".
Nature can enforce laws, including code and mathematics. Bitcoin can enforce its rules exactly like gold can. No one can turn lead into gold, they must allocate human time and effort to obtain it.
This is correct. Money should store your time that you devoted to meeting the needs of others, in order to demand their time in the future.
The real problem is not money creating more money, it is the select few people that can create money, without having to work for it, while everyone else has to work for it.
The person, government, banking cartel who creates money can demand the scarce human time of others without providing any of their own time in return. They are literally stealing the life force from everyone else - the worst kind of parasite. A slave owner.
And BTC fixes this.
Another post that sadly suggests that people should continue to allow others to steal their time, labor and energy when they can preserve it with better money.
Do you realize that you are not only giving bad advice, you are advocating for the usurers and parasites? It's quite sad that you can't humble yourself enough, being wrong on this topic, to help others - your ego is literally contributing to the theft of people's time and labor, and debasement in all facets. Consider that seriously, and with humility.
Do you have a refutation or my argument or did you just want to lodge a general objection? If the former, please go ahead and explain how Bitcoin will somehow be magically immune from being absorbed by the financial system (it will be strange to hear you make this argument however, since you are at the same time cheering for Bitcoin's adoption into the financial system and declaring it as inevitable).
In regard to fiat "stealing" labor: I presume that you, and the vast majority of those who buy and own Bitcoin, are not paid in Bitcoin, but rather in fiat that you then convert into Bitcoin. How is this any different than what I'm advocating, which is that people convert their fiat into assets like stock, real estate and gold if they want protection against inflation and debasement? Never once have I advocated that people attempt to save in fiat.
You continually beat up on a strawman and ignore my actual arguments. Here is my actual argument in a nutshell: Bitcoin is not a functional currency and never can be. Theoretically it can function as a "digital asset" (its current use case) but I am skeptical of its long term potential in this regard. I think it's far too risky to go all in for this reason, just like I would not go all in with any other single asset or stock.
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You'd have to define what "absorb" means because if you have studied it, you will realize that this protocol cannot be controlled by other players and is also outside of a physical jurisdiction, which we've told you, setting up a game theory scenario that proves that it will always just be a matter of time. That's how important and different this asset is. I'm not really cheering for anything, but I am pointing out its inevitability, you are correct. You deny that, including denying that the most important asset managers in the world already recognize it as the pristine asset it is, as it eats up all other assets during its re-pricing of them. That does not mean that you won't have a transition period of real assets to rotate, but you are missing this as time is working against you. Every minute you don't own BTC the more you miss out on the phase where others don't see something the visionaries do. That will cost you a LOT in wealth in the future = tremendous opportunity cost.
This is just a repackaging of the nascency bias or misunderstanding of how adoption occurs. It's not a real point of any sort.
You dually promote fiat as good and then say this, which is contradictory. I think that's what we want you to come clean on.
Principally I do think we agree on certain things, but I'm trying to get you to understand that many of your tenets are clearly contradictory. Once you have a more coherent thesis, you will then see BTC for what it is.
Remember, as long as fiat exists, BTC can go to infinity.
You seem to completely ignore the possibility that Bitcoin could function as a fractional reserve asset that backs some new currency. And to even call this a possibility understates the idea, as it is a more like a certainty (assuming that Bitcoin was fully adopted and became the global money as you claim). Fractional reserve banking and fiat are not going away, they are simply too powerful for accelerating economic growth and activity, and game theory (which you are so fond of invoking) dictates that economies that properly utilize these tools will vastly outcompete those that do not. Feel free to dispute this, also feel free to identify the current economic powerhouse economy that exclusively relies on hard money (you will unfortunately find this impossible, for obvious reasons).
Asset managers would gladly sell you custodial shares of dog sh*t. They don't care what they're selling, they just want something popular they can take their % skim off. They won't be losing money when Bitcoin collapses, it's all on the bagholders.
I understand this is how you think about Bitcoin. Do you understand that you're perfectly illustrating the exact same psychology that every cult member displays when talking about their cult?
It can also go to zero. Pretending that you can forecast the future with certainty is foolishness and the height of hubris.
I always laugh whenever someone brings up the Tulip Mania as gotcha vs bitcoin as that mania lasted just 1 year or cycle.
However I do agree with you that Bitcoin is a large gentlemen’s agreement and you can say the same for Gold or any commodity as long as the market sees theres value in holding it.
Not at all, it's part of my thesis. I'm not interested in currencies, as I've told you 50x.
This is what's amusing about this claim: you can verify gains, direction, and even "being right" whatever that means, to confirm that BTC is in fact what I/we say. You ignore this, which makes you the delusional one. Again, none of what you say about BTC has come true. Over time, ALL of what we say has. It's on you to not keep losing. We've tried to help you with this, but you keep losing. Ironically, you're in the cult of denying reality.
And they call us "cult members". It's high comedy. Tulips set up Holland as the flower capital of the world for centuries. Tulips had a "bubble" of like 2-3 years. Bitcoin is now in year 16, adopted by all the biggest players, even to the chagrin of that prostitute Jamie Dimon.
If you want to laugh, go look up the "Bubble" claims of Peter Schiff for over a decade, and see what price gold was during that whole time.
Again, denying BTC's success and foundations is literally denying math, hating making money, and being opposed to reality itself.
We don't have to prove anything. We're winning. Yet the delusional call us delusional, who are winning. Think about that for a second. It's a joke.