Lounge of The Russian-Ukrainian War

I've tried to approach this issue dispassionately on more than one occasion but Ukrainians have inevitably repulsed me with their conduct and comportment. Their blind hatred for Russians reminds me of the uncompromising Azeri hate for Armenians, where they won't be satisfied unless they've made a complete Russophobe out of you. Yes, I get that they're angry, but there's sincere anger and there's sheer animosity and prejudice.

The West has never really needed an excuse to attack Russians, so they've encouraged and gone along with it, although the aspects of Russian culture they do appreciate (Russia's great authors, for example) have gotten them in trouble with Ukrainians who in all their arrogance feel they are entitled to determine what works of literature get or don't get read!
 

I watched the entire press conference with Zelensky. There was 40 minutes of discussion up to the argument. Most people saw at most the last ten minutes. The whole video gives the proper context.

When I first watched the argument without the proper context, I thought it was possible that Trump and Vance ambushed Zelensky or were even trying to humiliate him. That's not what happened.

You had 40 minutes of calm conversation. Vance made a point that didn't attack Zelensky and wasn't even addressed to him, and Zelensky clearly started the argument.

In the first 40 minutes, Zelensky kept trying to go beyond what was negotiated in the deal. When Trump was asked a question, it was always "we'll see." Zelensky made blanket assertions that there would be no negotiating with Putin, and that Russia would pay for the war. When Trump said that it was a tragedy that people on both sides were dying, Zelensky interjected that the Russians were the invaders.

For his part, Trump made clear that the US would continue delivering military aid. All Zelensky had to do was remain calm for a few more minutes and they would've signed a deal.

The argument started when Trump pointed out that it would be hard to make a deal if you talk about Putin the way Zelensky does. Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn't get us anywhere.

The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him. Throughout the press conference to that point, everyone was making their arguments directly to the audience. Zelensky decided to challenge Vance and ask him hostile questions. He went back to his point that Putin never sticks to ceasefires, once again implying that negotiations are pointless. Why on earth would you do this? Then came the fight we all saw.

Zelensky was minutes away from being home free, and he would have had the deal and new commitments from the Trump administration. The point Vance made was directed against Biden and the media, taking them to task for speaking in moralistic terms. This offended Zelensky, and that began the argument.

I've been a fan of Zelensky up to this point, but this showed so much incompetence, if not emotional instability, that I don't see how he recovers from this. The relationship with the administration is broken. Ukraine should probably go with new leadership at this point.
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High-level Trump sources tell me the White House is now uncertain if they can get the Russians and Ukrainians to stop fighting because this episode with @ZelenskyyUa raised questions about whether he can move forward toward a peace deal. It also raises questions about whether US will pause aid to Ukraine. But Trump is NOT seeking regime change in Ukraine. No discussions about who in Ukraine might be a better leader than Zelenskyy.

Ukrainian officials have reached out this afternoon to senior White House officials desperate to get the deal back on track. But that will not happen today, I'm told. Trump is unwilling to talk to Zelenskyy further today.

When Rubio and Waltz went into the Roosevelt Room to ask Zelenskyy to leave, Rubio made it clear that any further engagements today would be counterproductive. Waltz told Zelenskyy he had made a tremendous mistake, and it was a grave disservice to Ukraine and to Americans, both.

No phone calls between Trump and Putin have been scheduled. But multiple European officials have called top Trump officials since Zelenskyy left asking how the minerals deal can be salvaged.

Trump fully intended to sign the minerals deal today. Two official binders were prepared -- Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and his Ukrainian counterpart and the two presidents were going to sit at a conference table in the East Room and then trumpet their success at podiums.

But there were suspicions before Zelenskyy arrived today that it might fall apart. Because the Trump admin had been pushing for weeks for a minerals deal signing at the ministerial level, and Ukraine had refused. Zelenskyy wanted security guarantees.

US officials thought negotiations would be much harder with **Putin** so today have been been in disbelief that it has been Zelenskyy who has been more difficult, making maximalist demands, sources told me.
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NEWS: When asked if the minerals deal is still on the table, multiple top Trump officials said: Not today.

None of this drama premeditated. Trump officials were incredulous that some media outlets suggested it might have been. The greeting with Trump and Zelenskyy was warm, with jokes and a guest book signing in the West Wing lobby. They went straight into the Oval and the vibe was positive. White House wanted this deal done today.

Trump believes that Zelenskyy missed out on a huge opportunity to have the US as a business partner, with US companies helping Ukraine monetize mineral resources such as gas, oil, aluminum, tritrium, gallium and others. Trump viewed it as the 1st step in in a progression towards peace.

France's Macron, the UK's Starmer, the sec general of NATO have all been talking to Trump and his team about troop presence in Ukraine, what the security guarantees would look like. But now US officials believe Zelenskyy has put his country in a terrible position, sources told me.

Instead of leaving with the US as a major business partner and all that that status would mean for Ukraine, Trump officials think Zelenskky left looking foolish, without reassuring Ukraine and without assuring American people they'll get to recoup their hundreds of billions, the officials said.
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Caduceus said:
Trump makes first comments to the press after kicking Zelensky out of the oval office.
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Gk6GO-eWMAEv5ZH
 
Check out Rubio's body language in the picture.


UKRAINE: Sec Rubio just got rug pulled. Zelensky assured him the mineral deal was locked in, and Rubio confidently told the president it was a done deal, with Zelensky visiting the White House to sign. Instead, Zelensky shifted the goalposts—demanding US ground troops, knowing Trump wouldn’t agree. Zelensky isn’t an honest broker.
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FrostBITE said:
I've tried to approach this issue dispassionately on more than one occasion but Ukrainians have inevitably repulsed me with their conduct and comportment. Their blind hatred for Russians reminds me of the uncompromising Azeri hate for Armenians, where they won't be satisfied unless they've made a complete Russophobe out of you. Yes, I get that they're angry, but there's sincere anger and there's sheer animosity and prejudice.

The West has never really needed an excuse to attack Russians, so they've encouraged and gone along with it, although the aspects of Russian culture they do appreciate (Russia's great authors, for example) have gotten them in trouble with Ukrainians who in all their arrogance feel they are entitled to determine what works of literature get or don't get read!
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Tall poppy syndrome

*Maybe that's why they got a midget for president.
 
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Samseau said:
As if we didn't need more proof that Europe is run by Reform Jews, and Zelensky is a top (((general))) waging war against Russia on their behalf.
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Have you explained this deeper somewhere on the forum? You’re other post about was interesting since there’s obviously a few different powerful factions in the world with their own power struggles and I’ve always been curious about them
 
Interesting analysis. Maybe it's obvious to some here, but I didn't realize the strategic implications of the mineral deal. I just figured it was a way for Trump to claw some of the grift money back: "you get to keep the funding, and we get access to rare earth minerals."

But having the US set up mining operations in Ukraine effectively ends the war overnight. It makes Ukraine an economic outpost of the US, which makes it a hard no-go zone for Russia, while allowing Russia to keep its territorial gains.



Trump was pursuing a policy of strategic ambiguity with the Ukraine minerals deal. There wouldn’t be a concrete security guarantee but Russia would know better than to attack de facto American resources in Ukraine.

It really was that simple. It would’ve ended the war. Russia would’ve been able to agree to it, keep the territory they’ve already fought and bled for, and save face.

Zelensky thought he could milk more support out of his paypig and overplayed his hand—or he genuinely has no intentions for peace. Given what Europe is promising him, he might’ve thought he would be able to embarrass Trump on the international stage into upstaging Europeans with security promises.

What Zelensky and his European allies fail to realize is that Trump isn’t interested in competing with Europe to see who can give Ukraine more money. The US is the only thing Trump cares about and America is done being ripped off.
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I went on some Swedish Norwegian German etc news websites and the cringe is unreal.

They want to go to a full on war with Russia but only if the veterans from the desert wars will go and fight for them.

It's beyond preposterous. Europe just went belly up overnight.
 
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