Did an infant cut that video? What am I even watching and what is the message supposed to be?
Jay Dyer Thread
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Did an infant cut that video? What am I even watching and what is the message supposed to be?
Then you don't understand Orthodoxy one bit. Every bishop has the power to bind and loose members of the church.
Orthodoxy is like the hazel nut tree. It has numerous branches but one root and like in a tree when some twigs get sick they die and fall away it doesn't affect the whole. My bishop is not responsible for transgressions of a monk from another jurisdiction. I can call out what other "twigs" are doing wrong, it doesn't affect me.
Deluded person so don't expect sense...
My point went right over your head. When you invest into the Bishop this unbiblical authority, there is nothing you can do when your bishop is corrupt, which most of your bishops are. This is why Lyer and his gang are fighting a losing battle. He may wail about the homosexual priests and the ecumenists, but he's just a guy on YouTube who the clergy will push out eventually.
GrecoRoman
Catholic
Father Spyridon has a lot of experience and is from a different generation. You can tell his channel is to speak about the Orthodox faith, not to be some type of online provocateur for cash like some of these guys. I haven’t watched one video from this Dyer guy, but after a minute watching a clip above he rubs me the wrong way, same vibe as a smug know it all liberal.
Fr. Josiah Trenham is my favorite of all the "influencers" that the online Orthobros seem to like. Patristic Nectar releases some of his lectures for free and every now and then and I always make sure to grab them. He stands firm in what he believes and will fight to defend these beliefs but he also has the wisdom to not be unnecessarily bellicose than necessary to defend these positions.
I was watching the Rock and Sand interview he did and something I appreciated is that he recognized within the Protestant Reformation there was different degrees of how far each sect broke off from what was the tradition then. Luther for example has a higher view of the Eucharist than some of the more radical elements of the Reformation. There's a tendency in the online Orthobrosphere to lump all of Protestantism together which means an United Methodist church with a lesbian pastor gets grouped together with a super conservative Reformed church.
I was watching the Rock and Sand interview he did and something I appreciated is that he recognized within the Protestant Reformation there was different degrees of how far each sect broke off from what was the tradition then. Luther for example has a higher view of the Eucharist than some of the more radical elements of the Reformation. There's a tendency in the online Orthobrosphere to lump all of Protestantism together which means an United Methodist church with a lesbian pastor gets grouped together with a super conservative Reformed church.
I was thinking of a hypothetical. If Samseau returns to the forum as a regular after becoming a priest, does that mean the Orthodox/Catholic members that he was regularly in contention with must now be obliged to defer to him since they are supposed to respect church authority? I recall when he and MusicForThePiano was arguing over something related to what the church has taught in regards to race, MFTP said to him 'you hold no church office' as way to attack his argument. Well now that he has an office, does that mean his opinion is now authoritative and that all the laymen that disagreed with him must now change their opinions in response?
Well, protestants have no church to speak of so the fact of them not having a bishop is a moot point.
In Orthodoxy a bishop is just a priest with more duties. It is also the duty of any lay person to call out their clergy if they veer off into heresy. It's a duty of a priest to disobey a heretical bishop. Since the beginning the church delt with heretic clergymen, small and big scale. Ones salvation is not dependent on a bishop or a priest, if he falls into heresy you search for the one who is keeping true to the church teaching. The church has been over this times and times again and it's still here, after all we were promised it would till the last day.
No because the laity is only obliged to follow the church fathers, apostles and God as a paragon. The truth once given. If Samsu comes up with a teaching contrary to them it's he who's in trouble.
Talk about judging a book by it's cover. Well, monks at Hilandar think otherwise.
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Not a fan of Trenham but he, unlike most Orthobro converts, understands the distinction between the Protestant churches and thus does not make the same "Protestantism" category error that most of them constantly make.
I don't see why a Catholic would feel obliged to. As for the Orthobros, I've never seen this deference to priests in practice, only heard about it in theory. Witcoff's latest book was allegedly approved by priests, doesn't stop most of the Dyerites from tar and feathering it on twitter. You saw in the Prot critique thread how they will appeal to non-priestly sources over actual priests in order to reject Christ's substitutionary death. The appeal to authority argument they make is a "rules for thee but not for me." I would like to see priest Samseau and Pravoslavic hash it out some more.
GrecoRoman
Catholic
So? Have the monks ever met him or are they watching his online videos? Lots of older monks and clergy are completely out of touch with the current reality and don’t know anything about online social media influencers and the grifting involved. Dyer seems inflammatory and provocative and like a total dbag when there’s no need to be, oh yeah yes there is inflammatory content gets more views and pads his bank account.
I like Dyer as far as notable internet personalities go. They all grift to a certain extent. It's their job - where they get their money - (with the exception of maybe people like Fr. Spyridon) so there is always going to be that layer of "a show" and inauthenticity that comes with it.
I find some of the info in his content useful. I don't have much issue with his personality. Some of his stuff is funny to me. I share his disdain for people going on and on about being "charitable".
On a trust scale I would trust him more than Candace Owens (even though I find some of her info useful as well). He seems like an Ortho equivalent to someone like Tim Gordan (who I'd maybe put higher up on that trust scale even though I disagree with Catholic doctrine).
I find some of the info in his content useful. I don't have much issue with his personality. Some of his stuff is funny to me. I share his disdain for people going on and on about being "charitable".
On a trust scale I would trust him more than Candace Owens (even though I find some of her info useful as well). He seems like an Ortho equivalent to someone like Tim Gordan (who I'd maybe put higher up on that trust scale even though I disagree with Catholic doctrine).
Couldn't find anything about monks blessing Lyer but did find this "blessing."
GrecoRoman
Catholic
People have different opinions of these influencers and I have mine, but I’ll state this. If they are going for spiritual development they are much better off spending that time building a library and reading the writings of the saints and the church fathers.
I've seen some of his debates and I think he's actually pretty good at it. He was running circles against atheists like Matt Dillahunty who is supposed to be the end boss for atheist debaters and ApostateProphet - who actually has converted to Orthodoxy. I wouldn't be surprised if the debate he had with Dyer was a motivating factor behind it. His debate against Trent Horn was a draw in my view but Horn is a top tier debater as well.
He is completely different on his stream however. I checked out one and the sort of humor he had as well as his general mannerism just was off-putting to me. I could see why perpetually online zoomers would find it appealing but it just wasn't for me. His tendency to get into all sorts of online drama and feuds even with other Christians, including other "based" Eastern Orthodox Christians is what turns me off the most about him. I feel pretty much the same about the Wilsons from the Crucible. They are very good debaters but the way their passions get inflamed online is very damaging to their witness and despite all the good work they do in blowing away people in debates, any good they seem to do gets off set by their behavior.
I don't know about the differences in authority, but who has the video of that black Baptist archbishop getting robbed of his bling on a facebook livestream.
If he's a priest I doubt his bishop would permit him to return to the forum, it's a vocation, a new life I think where you have to leave a lot behind even if you're not a monk.
edit: haven't seen and of his streams/videos and don't plan to
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This time you are, monks at Hilandar are cutting edge.
Being offered a position on Patristic Faith by Ananias Sorem probably helped Roosh's conversion from Oriental Orthodoxy to Eastern Orthodoxy. Wish he was still around because I have some questions about that.
I don't recall Roosh really talking about Dyer that much. Fr. Josiah Trenham seems to have been the bigger influence. I think Roosh even referred to him as someone he considered a 'spiritual father' in one of his articles even though as far I know, they haven't met in real life or online.
Speaking honestly, I liked having Roosh as an OO personality and was sad to see him convert.
I've noticed Dyer leaning into racial digs when engaging with OO specifically. Sadly it plays right into OO inferiority complexes since they're mostly non-White. White OO converts are flattered and showcased, and influencers like Full Armor Apologetics and Armenian Ortho Nation are selected to engage with EO and other "alt-right"-leaning Christians so that race-based insults can be circumvented (although both of them are Armenian, at least partially). I've noticed Muslims do the same. It doesn't please me to say it, but this is how it is.
I've noticed Dyer leaning into racial digs when engaging with OO specifically. Sadly it plays right into OO inferiority complexes since they're mostly non-White. White OO converts are flattered and showcased, and influencers like Full Armor Apologetics and Armenian Ortho Nation are selected to engage with EO and other "alt-right"-leaning Christians so that race-based insults can be circumvented (although both of them are Armenian, at least partially). I've noticed Muslims do the same. It doesn't please me to say it, but this is how it is.
He mainly makes fun of Indians and Muslims, which is totally fine with me.