I have been recently dating and I must say as convert to Christianity it's very different for me now.
Somehow in 10+ years of PUA style dating I was always focused on the goal; sex.
I recently dated a girl, part of me falls back in that role, the teasing, the type of joking, making her feel (un)comfortable, the touches. But that's a lot smaller now.
I now more had the feeling what am I doing here? Do I want to marry her? I feel more desire to show myself, also my dark side.
Like: This is who I am, broken and whole, and this is what I stand for.
I felt I could have played my "game" and could have "won". But instead I tried to get to know her and I felt disgusted to be honest with the liberalism she displayed. I notice I can't handle relativism anymore (everyone believes what they want, great if it "supports" you style thinking)
It becomes a lot more important to me to see if our outlooks on life match. If we are complementary. If we can have God as a primary position in life.
I'm wondering do any of you have similar experiences, and how did / do you go about it? Which restraints do you set? Let's say a date #1 to #3?
Or any good books on courtship, how to get to know each other? (I feel I need to unlearn all my tricks)
I think if this is a serious endeavour for you, rather than an intellectual exercise, I would suggest the following:
In your own thread (e.g., "Paternos' action and reflection journal"), think about going into more detail about
your own personal situation: goals, values, red/green/yellow flags, life situation, work, experiences, strengths, areas to improve, experiences on dates etc. Sharing all this may feel vulnerable but ultimately this will get you the
best ROI for your consultation seeking. This can be done without compromising your identity, e.g. you can say you are "mid 30s" instead of 33.
Without discussing your personal situation the best you will get is general advice that may or may not apply to your situation. This advice can still be gold, but its broad nature will limit its utility to you as a unique individual.
For example, threads like this* are similar to yours, and tend to revolve around concepts that remain generalised and are either
not applicable to the OP's situation (if he shared one at all), and/or** represent a mere
thought exercise rather than a starting point for real-life behaviour change, and follow-up with post-action reflections.
*
https://christisking.cc/threads/game-like-tactics-for-christian-relationships.662/
**
https://christisking.cc/threads/the-approach-question-aq.700/
Here is an example of a thread which details an individual's situation and thus includes more personalised advice:
I hope this helps.
Thanks for that input. I agree with it being a huge red flag. I haven't heard of the term "monkey branching" before, but I guess that just means facilitated hypergamy. Hopefully I'm doing my part correcting this social corruption by now just outright telling them about their lack of virtue. Modern society has fallen off a cliff, but there may be still a calling for single men that understand the demonic forces at play, even though we may be destined to never marry and have a family.
Any thoughts about the second question I posed? How do we save time by not attracting these women? They do a really good job of being deceptive and hiding their red flags as long as possible, whereas I am really transparent and straightforward now so the uninterested women can skip me as fast as possible and save us both a lot of grief (it doesn't happen though, they like the attention and try to keep the company as long as possible). I generally want to not have to spend another few months in the friendship phase every single time, though that's an important phase, only to find out she maintained a lie right before proceeding to courtship/dating.
A. Keep in the mind this essential principle of understanding women:
Attention itself is the end game for many women.
Never ever EVER forget that. I cannot emphasise this enough. Some of them will literally use you for validation, attention, resources, etc for
years and then when you escalate they will put you in the friendzone... which is where you were all along.
B. Think of all those favours you did for a woman, and imagine them all disappearing. They are gone. When it comes to calling on reciprocity from old times... the past is largely over for women. This applies to any stage of the relationship, including marriage.
Video blurb:
If you're a man considering going down the path of marriage and children, it is essential that you learn how to maintain a woman's long-term commitment. This is because the more you invest in any one woman, the more leveraged you are and the riskier that relationship becomes, especially in contemporary society. The key to maintaining that commitment is to understand that everything you've ever done for a woman is irrelevant. I explain more in this episode.
C. "Her words mean
nothing, her behaviour means
everything" - this is a very simplified protocol but achieves this gist of the message concisely. Don't invest too much into what she says in the early stage of the relationship, especially when it comes to her expressing possible signs of interest in you.
D. If you play things too safe and don't escalate then you could be stuck in this limbo for years on end. Conversely if you act out of neediness and come on too strong you will push her away quickly. A potential solution includes:
- Consider your sources and quality of women. Are you meeting women at church, at the gym, online etc? Are you screening women based on looks above all else?
- Consider your part in this - your presentation, vibe, communications etc. Are you being the friendly guy that gives out time, energy and effort for "free", while holding a covert mental contract that she "owes" you something? Are you playing things safe?
- Do what you can to escalate things slowly but steadily, based on the context. At church, it can take many months to have any alone time with a girl before getting more investment. I know couples at church that were "church buddies" for years before they even went on a date. In a coffee shop you can check for investment much, much quicker by asking her to walk with you outside the shop etc. These are variations of the "investment ladder" and it is essential to facilitate her investment in you through many, small steps.
E. Try to accept that a feeling of "wasted time" is
inevitable when taking on the monumental task of building yourself up as father material and searching for a woman to have your children. Going on dates that lead nowhere etc is unavoidable. You must be willing to take risks here by potentially spending time with women who turn out to be incompatible. Avoidance of investing in a woman because of worry about losing out in time, energy etc is a losing strategy. It simply won't work.
Men have to take risks and face rejection.
That said, the above approaches can help minimise the feeling of frustration as part of this process.
Never been into the PUA thing. I thought of it as being a snarmy little turd. No one likes “that guy.” Plus, it only works on thots. A lot women will look at you like you’re a loser if you run game for my experience.
However, I’m struggling with the existential dread of croaking alone yet no single moms for me. Is my above perception of game wrong? Can you pull non hoes with game? Can you game your way to a good wife and solid marriage?
See here for discussion:
Bonus video on the topic:
Video blurb
If a game is anything with rules and a goal, then relationships are a game. We know there is a goal, because we want things from other people. And we know there are rules, because we can't act however we want to get whatever we want. In this episode, I'll respond to the most common negative reaction to the conceptualization of relationships as a game: that "game playing" is "immature" and "manipulative." My rebuttal is that you can't not play, and that "maturity" and "honesty" are as much "game playing" strategies as their opposites.
