Halloween

[Thomas More]

What do you guys think about Halloween? When I was a kid, we wore costumes and trick or treated. It was great! Costumes are fun, the process of trick or treating is fun, then there's tons of candy.

As an adult, I've sometimes had costumes and went to parties, which was fun. I've stayed home and handed out candy to trick or treaters. For years we had parties where we had a couple of families come over. We took the kids trick or treating, then had food and drinks back at the house.

However, since I've become an active Christian again, I am more skeptical. Nowadays, Halloween is much bigger than before. People decorate their houses for six weeks with elaborate setups. There is more of an occult feeling, not just costumes and candy. It's harder to keep it innocent in this environment.

Do you guys let your kids trick or treat? Do you get costumes for yourself and have parties?

 

[Callixtus]

The roots of the holiday are Christian. Halloween is All Hallows' Eve or All Saints' Eve which is the vigil of All Saints Day (November 1st) and goes back over a thousand years on the Roman calendar. Our Orthodox brethren hold a similar celebration after Pentecost. It is a solemn celebration to commemorate the lives of all saints, martyrs and the faithful departed. Festivities include attending liturgies, praying for the souls of the dead and commemorating the lives and acts of the saints.

The secular "spooky season" festivities of witches, ghosts and ghouls as well as all the partying and immodest costumes is a more modern bastardization of the solemnity.

Personally I'm a bit conflicted on partaking in the modern festivities. Obviously wild parties and lewd dress are out of consideration, but I do have fond memories of trick-or-treating as a kid, and although I don't have kids of my own yet, I would like to share that with them someday.

As for adult Halloween parties with costumes and whatnot, it's just not my cup of tea anymore. I think some people may find enjoyment in that, but I also think that it is part of the perpetual adolescence culture that pervades society these days.

I would answer that as Christians we should celebrate the traditional aspects of the season and include and instruct our children in that, but leave the costumes and candy to the kids alone and definitely kick to the curb the lewd dress and celebrations of the macabre.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Halloween? You mean Reformation Day?

Halloween is a commercial holiday, a cash grab. I find the spooky theme fun but I wouldn't put too much stock into any of it. But I do enjoy looking at the creative decorations as I walk the park.

 

[Nordwand]

To my utter amazement, my place of work has put up posters advertising an All Saints service, which they certainly have not done before (pretty sure they've not done it for any service, period). I hope this proves to be the first of many.

 

[Lawrence87]

I was speaking to someone about this the other day. In the modern secular world there is a hunger for a liturgical cycle, of something bigger than yourself and your own little life, and halloween gets latched onto because it gives a vague glimpse of what our souls crave. Sadly in this yearning to have some tradition, some cycle of feasts to connect with our neighbours people do not realise they are participating in a mockery of the resurrection.

It also speaks of the infantilization of our society, where grown adults get excited to dress in silly costumes. To some degree I can understand parents participating with their kids. But adult men and women being inordinately excited to play dress up is a sign that our society lacks sober-minded grown adults.

 

[Vas Incrementum]

Halloween wasn't celebrated in England when I was a kid. Our festival was 5 days later, Guy Fawkes day. On that day we'd light fireworks and burn an effigy of Guy Fawkes on a big fire. That our family, and most other Catholic families , celebrated the failure of a heroic Catholic to reestablish a Catholic monarch is testament to just how malleable, unthinking and subservient to authority the "greatest generation" were.

That aside, Halloween, because of its themes, is a celebration that's a gateway into the occult. As a teenager my group of friends used to walk through the woods to the village green at night, hoping to see naked witches prancing around. We never did. The conversation was always about evil and the devil. We'd even walk x3 around the village church, because myth had it the devil would appear.

As a Christian first and Catholic second, I suggest that we direct our children away from secular celebrations. The Roman Catholic Church has enough beautiful ceremonies and celebrations to keep the young entertained and nurtured in the faith at the same time.

 

[N°6]

When I was more active in a church and when I had a bigger Christian social circle, this question came up annually. I tended to find that men were more against their children celebrating Hallowe'en (i.e. the Celtic, Galician and Manx Samhain) than their wives, who would often accuse their husbands of being spoil sports against harmless fun.

 

[Thomas More]

I was speaking to someone about this the other day. In the modern secular world there is a hunger for a liturgical cycle, of something bigger than yourself and your own little life, and halloween gets latched onto because it gives a vague glimpse of what our souls crave. Sadly in this yearning to have some tradition, some cycle of feasts to connect with our neighbours people do not realise they are participating in a mockery of the resurrection.

It also speaks of the infantilization of our society, where grown adults get excited to dress in silly costumes. To some degree I can understand parents participating with their kids. But adult men and women being inordinately excited to play dress up is a sign that our society lacks sober-minded grown adults.

I guess I disagree about the costumes. Adults like to have fun too. Costumes are fun. I don't think this is a childish activity that's inappropriate for adults. Naturally the costumes have to have some decorum and decency, but that still leaves plenty of room for fun.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

By the logic of those who don’t believe in celebrating Halloween because it’s Samhain or whatever, we shouldn’t celebrate Christmas because it’s Sol Invictus.

 

[scary_robot_music]

I guess I disagree about the costumes. Adults like to have fun too. Costumes are fun. I don't think this is childish activity that's inappropriate for adults. Naturally the costumes have to have some decorum and decency, but that still leaves plenty of room for fun.

I agree. Maybe it is childish but it's OK to be childish sometimes to some extent. Some might spin it as "young at heart."

My devout Catholic wife from south of the border flatly decreed a few days ago that our kids are not going trick or treating this year because Halloween is evil. However, she was OK with them going to a "trunk or treat" at my Mom and Dad's (not Catholic) church a few nights ago.

I'm conflicted on it. Trick-or-treating with little kids is fun and cute, something I see as entirely different from how adults celebrate Halloween, which is basically just an excuse to get drunk and try to get laid. Then there's how the parish we go to is over 90% first- and second-generation immigrant, mostly Latino, and they're generally very down on Halloween. It's one of the many ways in which they blithely disrespect American culture and it makes me think that they have to go back. With the exception of my wife, of course. I like her.

On the other hand, she's far more spiritual and righteous than I am and I'm probably willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Also, it's going to be very cold on the 31st this year and not as much fun being out as it normally would.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

I agree. Maybe it is childish but it's OK to be childish sometimes to some extent. Some might spin it as "young at heart."

Nothing wrong with dressing up, knocking back some drinks, socializing,and eating candy. The Christian spin on it is we remember our ancestors and those who came before us. I’m well aware All Hallows’ Eve is a western thing but US is a western country. We’re not in Russia or Greece.

It's one of the many ways in which they blithely disrespect American culture…

I never thought of it in that angle.

 

[Thomas More]

I agree. Maybe it is childish but it's OK to be childish sometimes to some extent. Some might spin it as "young at heart."

My devout Catholic wife from south of the border flatly decreed a few days ago that our kids are not going trick or treating this year because Halloween is evil. However, she was OK with them going to a "trunk or treat" at my Mom and Dad's (not Catholic) church a few nights ago.

I'm conflicted on it. Trick-or-treating with little kids is fun and cute, something I see as entirely different from how adults celebrate Halloween, which is basically just an excuse to get drunk and try to get laid. Then there's how the parish we go to is over 90% first- and second-generation immigrant, mostly Latino, and they're generally very down on Halloween. It's one of the many ways in which they blithely disrespect American culture and it makes me think that they have to go back. With the exception of my wife, of course. I like her.

On the other hand, she's far more spiritual and righteous than I am and I'm probably willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Also, it's going to be very cold on the 31st this year and not as much fun being out as it normally would.

User name checks out!


Interesting the immigrant Hispanic community is down on trick or treating. Even in America, the tradition really only took off in the 20th century. It used to be much more a threat of tricks unless you pay me off, then it was commercialized to be costumes and candy barely 100 years ago.

 

[Rodion]

The only thing I’ve ever liked about Halloween is that gives me the opportunity to be the only person at work, or at a social event, not in fancy dress. This gives me such tremendous, inexplicable pleasure. To hear them say “oh why didn’t you dress up?!” Is music to my ears. I don’t know what this says about me as a person. I revel in it, I’ll often confirm beforehand that I will dress up, and then don’t do it.

The absolute pinnacle is if you’re invited to a party that’s fancy dress and you turn up in ordinary clothes. You walk into the room and just feel like a Chad.

 

[N°6]

By the logic of those who don’t believe in celebrating Halloween because it’s Samhain or whatever, we shouldn’t celebrate Christmas because it’s Sol Invictus.

Before making the Hebrew First, JW, Pagan and Gnostic arguments of Zeitgeist, I would recommend checking what the late Dr Heiser had to say about it.

Naked Bible 195: Is Christmas a Pagan Holiday?

There is much discussion online at this time of year as to the presumed pagan origins of Christmas. December 25, we are told, was a date stolen from pagan worship, specifically from the festival of the “Birth of the Unconquered Sun” (Sol Invictus)? Should Christians have Christmas trees? Aren’t...

nakedbiblepodcast.com

He argues that 25 December was a Christian holiday before Aurelian dedicated it to Sol Invictus in an attempt to unify the pagan philosophies against the spread of Christianity. The northern hemisphere's winter solstice is 21 or 22 December anyway.

 

[Suburban Yahoo]

Halloween in America has taken a dark and sinister turn. As kids, it was whimsical, maybe it shouldn't have been, but it's not good what it is now. A lot of people look like they're really into the dark and sinister, the horror, etc., to where it's a celebration of it.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

Before making the Hebrew First, JW, Pagan and Gnostic arguments of Zeitgeist, I would recommend checking what the late Dr Heiser had to say about it.

I’ll check it out. But for the record I’m not a zeitgeist-er at all. I’ve seen the movie and the argument “Jesus never existed” is low rent. My argument is ever been to a desert at night in the middle of winter? Not exactly a good time for a shepherd to be sleeping in the fields. Also about that census…. Jesus would have probably had a summer birthday.

Early church was more focused on Easter as it should be. The Church has always allowed local traditions to take up space in its liturgical year. From the days of Cornelius in Acts to the Inuit in Alaska. The Roman date of sol invictus is just some local flavor that stuck. I don’t think anyone sees their Christmas tree as an object of ritual.

 

[Samseau]

Makes no sense to have your children do something you wouldn't do, does it?

If Halloween is demonic, then why would you send your kids to a demonic festival?

If anything Halloween is so evil nowadays I wouldn't let my kids do it until they are 18 and able to reason out the degeneracy for themselves.

 

[Iacobus]

Halloween in America has taken a dark and sinister turn. As kids, it was whimsical, maybe it shouldn't have been, but it's not good what it is now. A lot of people look like they're really into the dark and sinister, the horror, etc., to where it's a celebration of it.

Yes this is how I feel, it's a celebration of the macabre and I don't really feel that the macabre is to be celebrated. Not to mention how tacky and gaudy everything associated with the holiday is, like most commercial holidays in America.

 

[N°6]

My argument is ever been to a desert at night in the middle of winter? Not exactly a good time for a shepherd to be sleeping in the fields. Also about that census…. Jesus would have probably had a summer birthday.

According to the book, The Star of Bethlehem: The Star That Astonished the World, Jesus would have been born in late summer at the Feast of Trumpets when kings dated the beginning of their rule.

The Star of Bethlehem Index Page

Dr Heiser, using the zodiac and astronomical terms of Revelation 12 cites an 80 minute window when Leo, Virgo and Scorpio/ Libra aligned with the sun, moon and Jupiter to arrive at the birthday...11 September 3BC...



Not only did 9/11 happen on this date, a decade earlier President Bush Senior announced the NWO.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Yes this is how I feel, it's a celebration of the macabre and I don't really feel that the macabre is to be celebrated. Not to mention how tacky and gaudy everything associated with the holiday is, like most commercial holidays in America.

if I may contradict in a daring manner, I think a celebration of the macabre does have a place in life. In fact, there are a whole lot of people who think of Christians as being macabre, Orthodox and Catholics in particular. After all, we do traffic in stories of brave men who met an untimely and horrifying death and there are monasteries with catacombs full of skulls. Jonathan Pageau has this great take, that, really, most things that exist as symbols have a place, but only Christ can show you where they are to be placed.
Halloween being tacky and gaudy, I think, is very much an outcome of Pharisee rule over the Western culture, the US in particular. I would have to say the same about Christmas. However, humorously encountering the darker aspects of human spiritual experience is something very worthwhile on a cultural level, and I think it's good when children are familiar with that.
In the absence of Christianity, it runs risk of becoming a fetishization of the horrifying, but confronting the horrifying can otherwise be very beneficial to a Christian life, in my opinion. Actually, what drew me to Orthodoxy among other things was that it seemed to acknowledge the twisted, rotten nature of our spiritual life more head-on than other confessions.
Romania is probably one of the most consistently Orthodox nations in the world, and they actually have a multitude of festivities in each region which include a type of scary dress-up, in one way or another, symbolizing the encounter with the demonic, usually as bears or weird demons.
Whether or not you should let your children partake in such festivities in Western countries is another can of worms. It's probably not even a good idea to let your children go to birthdays or even protestant confirmation celebrations if you are worried about negative sinful influences. I think what's way more important than keeping bad influences away, is maintaining the influence of the Church above all. I am a very sick and corrupted man, and I don't think going trick'r'treating on Halloween did it. The absence of religious education and my parents not being married, more so. Consult a priest about these things, obviously, but I frequently find myself surprised that my priest seems to be less concerned about cultural hygiene than me. Just never allow Christ to get out of the picture I guess.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a macabre horror flick to watch.