Good States to Live in the United States

[Thomas More]

I'm going to make an oddly specific recommendation for anyone working remote in the US (or skilled blue collar labor). It's a town that is near where I have some extended family and I've been in the town a number of times during extended visits.

Colwich, Kansas.

I notice almost nobody complaining about newcomers has mentioned Kansas. That's a good thing. Nobody is thinking about it and the wider area lacks the large number of transplants.

It's a tiny town located about 10-15 minutes away from the Outskirts of Wichita. Here's why.

Reasons for it:

- The parish in town is large and traditionally minded with a school attached. The congregation has been full when I've gone there and had a large number of young families with a noticeable number of unattended young singles.

-A trad-catholic co-working space is located in town named Ora et Labora. They have daily devotionals and form a ready-made community to plug into. I haven't seen anything quite like it before.

- Multiple Latin masses within a 30 minute drive of that location (one Diocesan, one SSPX)

- As far as Roman dioceses go (which isn't a great benchmark), it falls in the Wichita diocese which is one of the most conservative (relatively speaking) in the country. Average age of priests is about two decades lower than average and it produces a healthy stream of vocations.

-The town is good for anyone who wants a quiet life. Not that much there but you've got a grocery store, library, gas station, park, and a local tavern.

- As far as larger errands, you can get everything you need done in the Maize neighborhood of Wichita which is a safe, boring, suburban strip mall neighborhoods with the kinds of establishments you would find such as the large chain hardware stores, department stores, and grocery stores.

-In general I have found things to be largely more functional there. The locals tend to dislike drama or complication and want to just get things done the easiest way. The few interactions I've had with local government entities were vastly easier than anything else I've ever done with. Just simple, straightforward, in and out transactions. Also never noticed "competence crisis" problems like having food orders messed up or checkout at stores screwed up. The baseline level of competence is higher than other areas I've been to and there's a noticeably lower level of neuroticism among the people I've interacted with (compared to upper midwest, NorthEast, SouthEast).


Cons

-Biggest con is a significant one. Your closest city is Wichita. The outskirts are nice suburban areas, but a lot of the inside areas seem fairly economically depressed. It doesn't seem to really have any large ghettos but there's a widely acknowledged problem with property crime. Last time I went through, for the first time, I noticed the homeless population downtown had shot up rapidly.

-It's flat. It's boring. You won't find great hiking, nightlife, or amazing hustle there.

-Water. The area had a drought last year. The general area was pretty wet visiting over the Christmas break but I am told the prognosis for the area with the aquifer reserves is "grim".

Looks like a nice town, but unfortunately Zillow shows zero homes for sale in town or the surrounding countryside. Everybody there seems to want to stay! There is one nice house for $345K in the even smaller town of Andale, or else you'd have to buy in Maize. Maize does have a number of nice houses between $200-300K, which is cheap compared to much of the US.

Maize has a low crime rate compared to much of the Wichita area, so it would be good in that sense. I agree it would be mundane suburbia with a lack of natural or cultural attractions. Of course a strong Christian community is is a very good cultural attraction.

 

[jaguarcat]

For someone not worried about tornados and doesn't mind high pretty humid heat, Kansas is a very nice option. It's not overrun by transplants and has wide open spaces and low population density, mostly nice people. Much less affected by modern mentality. Can easily get away from cities and their ills and crime, the state has rural character. Rocky Mountains in Colorado are 1-2 days drive away. Visiting Kansas is a pleasant experience. Lots of very fat people and glyphosate pollution because of all the corn grown, though. Hail can get very big out there in Kansas, the biggest one was 17.5 inches. Lack of public lands in KS is a big drawback. Cicadas are pretty awsome.

Small towns there still got old time charm, like traveling back in time. I've been all over the place and Kansas was the only place where I liked small towns in the Eastern half of the States, very orderly yet relaxed and no vibes of negativity towards outsiders (most Eastern small towns are very insular). It's true that people in Kansas small towns are less neurotic than probably anywhere else. As to Wichita...well it's a big US city with some "diversity" too, can look up Wichita Four/Wichita Massacre crime against Whites. Kansas is where the West, Western influence is already felt (it gets more crowded, neurotic and insular past its Eastern borders, but especially once Missouri is crossed), yet it is without rich big coastal city translants of the West. It has very peaceful vibes but no heavy vibes for an outsider like much of the Eastern states countryside.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

This is from another thread but anyone got a data sheet on South Carolina or the Cincinnati metro area?

 

[Cherico88]

This is from another thread but anyone got a data sheet on South Carolina or the Cincinnati metro area?

Try getting Joel Skousen’s book “Strategic Relocation “, fourth edition. Skousen gives a pretty good analysis of the security and survival situation for all fifty states. I tried to post the SC page from his book but the file is too large. SC gets a one star out of five.

it’s rated low for all the usual reasons: high on crime, government corruption, pollution. Poor gun ownership laws, natural medicine forbiden and lots of key military bases in the event of a strike. COL is lower but on an upward trend.

disclaimer: Skousen is Rocky mtn centric and utah in particular as an LDS member. To be fair, 49 states all received a lower ranking compared to the third edition. Only South Dakota maintained its’ 3.5 star rating.

 

[Cherico88]

This is from another thread but anyone got a data sheet on South Carolina or the Cincinnati metro area?

This is excerpted from Strategic Relocation.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

Alabama has a lot of potential. I've driven through it on the way to the Florida Panhandle. The north is nice and looks a lot like East Tennessee with mountains and forests. The Gulf Coast is also great. Basically an extension of Florida. Beautiful beaches and water.

When I talk about it with people, a lot of them say "Why Alabama?" This is a good thing because a lot of left-wing freaks and Californians will stay away.

The Florida Panhandle is also fantastic. East Tennessee looks great too, but a lot of people are noticing it.

 

[TheSurveyor]

Alabama has a lot of potential. I've driven through it on the way to the Florida Panhandle. The north is nice and looks a lot like East Tennessee with mountains and forests. The Gulf Coast is also great. Basically an extension of Florida. Beautiful beaches and water.

When I talk about it with people, a lot of them say "Why Alabama?" This is a good thing because a lot of left-wing freaks and Californians will stay away.

The Florida Panhandle is also fantastic. East Tennessee looks great too, but a lot of people are noticing it.

Just recently moved to the panhandle and I don't like it much at all. I can't speak of Pensacola much, but I've been dreading it here so far. Hopefully things improve.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

Just recently moved to the panhandle and I don't like it much at all. I can't speak of Pensacola much, but I've been dreading it here so far. Hopefully things improve.

That's too bad. I've only visited the Panhandle but really enjoyed it. Pensacola had its ghetto/trashy areas as most cities do, but most of it was livable. Several nice neighborhoods and downtown and the beach are fun.

The good thing about Florida is all the different regions with their own vibe. So maybe try a different area.

 

[bubs]

Just recently moved to the panhandle and I don't like it much at all. I can't speak of Pensacola much, but I've been dreading it here so far. Hopefully things improve.

I drove from New Orleans thru gulf shores of Miss and Alabama and then stayed a few days at Navarre Beach FL. All of that area along the gulf I generally liked the vibe, and even driving thru northern panhandle of Florida in the farmland I liked the way things looked at least. Do you mind expanding on why it’s been dreadful for you? I’d be curious to know your experience and I’m sure others would as well. I know 3 people who live in the Pensicola area. 2 really like it there and the other not so much, they used to live in Canada but now wants to move to Idaho.

 

[TheSurveyor]

I drove from New Orleans thru gulf shores of Miss and Alabama and then stayed a few days at Navarre Beach FL. All of that area along the gulf I generally liked the vibe, and even driving thru northern panhandle of Florida in the farmland I liked the way things looked at least. Do you mind expanding on why it’s been dreadful for you? I’d be curious to know your experience and I’m sure others would as well. I know 3 people who live in the Pensicola area. 2 really like it there and the other not so much, they used to live in Canada but now wants to move to Idaho.

Again, I cannot speak on Pensacola as I’ve only been there a handful of times.

But the panhandle is fairly big and underdeveloped. Every town feels incredibly small with nothing to do. Unless you work in a niche industry or work from home, you’re gonna probably have to live in relative proximity to either Tallahassee or Pensacola.

Tallahassee is terrible for all intents and purposes. It’s like going to DC, but you take away all the public transit museums and you replace with ghettos and poorly designed roads (worst that I’ve seen in Florida).

So if you’re going to live somewhere in the panhandle, I’d recommend not living near Tallahassee, or getting an online job

 

[Thomas More]

Again, I cannot speak on Pensacola as I’ve only been there a handful of times.

But the panhandle is fairly big and underdeveloped. Every town feels incredibly small with nothing to do. Unless you work in a niche industry or work from home, you’re gonna probably have to live in relative proximity to either Tallahassee or Pensacola.

Tallahassee is terrible for all intents and purposes. It’s like going to DC, but you take away all the public transit museums and you replace with ghettos and poorly designed roads (worst that I’ve seen in Florida).

So if you’re going to live somewhere in the panhandle, I’d recommend not living near Tallahassee, or getting an online job

I'm surprised you would list public transit as a factor in how good a place is to live! Public transit is inconvenient and full of poor people. Even in cities designed around public transit, like NYC, I believe there is a skyrocketing rate of crime, homeless and drug users living in the transit stations, filthy low class riders, and all that.

Most US cities have some kind of Rapid Transit train system built in recent decades, plus a bus network. It usually takes 3 times as long to get anywhere with public transit as having your own car. Also, with public transit, you usually have to walk the final distance to your destination. Tallahassee is a hot, humid, rainy location, where walking a block could leave you soaked and sweaty for most of the year. You want to have continuous access to A/C anywhere in the south, except maybe on the beach. You have to have a car, and be willing to pay for parking if you go down town. Or take Uber.

Other than that, I agree Tallahassee is going to be dominated by State Government, and will have a lot of poor, run down areas of town. Also, it is very isolated, with no other towns or cities of reasonable size less than two hours drive away. It's not even close to the beach.

 

[TheSurveyor]

I'm surprised you would list public transit as a factor in how good a place is to live! Public transit is inconvenient and full of poor people. Even in cities designed around public transit, like NYC, I believe there is a skyrocketing rate of crime, homeless and drug users living in the transit stations, filthy low class riders, and all that.

Most US cities have some kind of Rapid Transit train system built in recent decades, plus a bus network. It usually takes 3 times as long to get anywhere with public transit as having your own car. Also, with public transit, you usually have to walk the final distance to your destination. Tallahassee is a hot, humid, rainy location, where walking a block could leave you soaked and sweaty for most of the year. You want to have continuous access to A/C anywhere in the south, except maybe on the beach. You have to have a car, and be willing to pay for parking if you go down town. Or take Uber.

Other than that, I agree Tallahassee is going to be dominated by State Government, and will have a lot of poor, run down areas of town. Also, it is very isolated, with no other towns or cities of reasonable size less than two hours drive away. It's not even close to the beach.

Funny you say that, I quite enjoy public transit. Most Florida cities have awful, or many cases, non-existent public transportation. Which to me is a major factor on how viable an area is to live. Yeah you're going to have to deal with poor people and slums, but having to drive to get anywhere gets annoying real fast. And is not very viable for a young person just trying to get a new start either.

I would also argue that effective public transit makes driving significantly more bearable as it takes a lot of people off the roads, like I noticed in DC, where a short uber ride costed like $10. That ride would cost like $25 anywhere you go in Florida. With none of the pay that comes from living in DC.

And what you say about Tallahassee applies to most of the panhandle in general. Aside from Tallahassee and Pensacola, the next nearest city is Gainesville (3 to 4 hours), which isn't exactly known for having a stellar job market.

Honestly, I have been unimpressed by the panhandle so far as a person who just moved here. Maybe Pensacola is better, but at that rate you're barely even living in Florida anymore, and it definitely feels that way too.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

Yeah if you want big city amenities, then the Panhandle is not the place to be. Most of Florida in general lacks that kind of stuff. I don't like most big cities so this is a good thing to a lot of people. The Panhandle is like a mix of Florida and the Southern US, which makes sense considering its location. Very conservative and a lot more peaceful than northern cities. I haven't been to Tallahassee but it looks like a dump. I was thinking more of the area between Pensacola/the Alabama border east to Panama City. Lots of nice towns in between.

If you want a more stereotypical Florida atmosphere, it would be better to go further south. Sarasota, Fort Myers, Naples, etc.

 

[TheSurveyor]

Yeah if you want big city amenities, then the Panhandle is not the place to be. Most of Florida in general lacks that kind of stuff. I don't like most big cities so this is a good thing to a lot of people. The Panhandle is like a mix of Florida and the Southern US, which makes sense considering its location. Very conservative and a lot more peaceful than northern cities. I haven't been to Tallahassee but it looks like a dump. I was thinking more of the area between Pensacola/the Alabama border east to Panama City. Lots of nice towns in between.

If you want a more stereotypical Florida atmosphere, it would be better to go further south. Sarasota, Fort Myers, Naples, etc.

Then you should look into Brewton, Alabama, don't know too much about it but it seemed nice. I had to stay there when I was working near the border.

 

[TCOCBR18]

Alabama is overall quite a good state to live in.
It has the pluses of southern culture without most of the total poverty of Mississippi, Louisiana, etc.
It's very black, but southern blacks are good people; any issues with black people almost exclusively happen in northern cities like New York, Detroit, Chicago, etc.
The Orthodox population of Alabama is quite minimal, of course, but you at least have strong parishes in all the cities.
If you're Protestant, Alabama is one of the most religious states in America and I might even imagine your chance of finding a devout Protestant spouse is quite good.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

If you're Protestant, Alabama is one of the most religious states in America and I might even imagine your chance of finding a devout Protestant spouse is quite good.

I’ve considered this. There’s a lot of good looking loyal protestant women out there. The difference really isn’t that big if you lay the beliefs out on paper. As long as they are chill about it and dont call me an idolater. I’ve had some Protestant women tell me “I’m practically a pagan that showers.”

 

[TCOCBR18]

I’ve considered this. There’s a lot of good looking loyal protestant women out there. The difference really isn’t that big if you lay the beliefs out on paper. As long as they are chill about it and dont call me an idolater. I’ve had some Protestant women tell me “I’m practically a pagan that showers.”

What a hideous insult!
I have also encountered Protestants trying to say icons are idol worship. I've also encountered them trying to tear down the Mother of God.
The average person does not have these reactions, but I've long thought it's a pretty tricky balance, because we would rather have a devout partner, of course, but on the other hand if a person is really entrenched in devout Protestantism, they may be more dogmatic in opposition to Orthodoxy.

 

[Christos_NIKA]

I’ve considered this. There’s a lot of good looking loyal protestant women out there. The difference really isn’t that big if you lay the beliefs out on paper. As long as they are chill about it and dont call me an idolater. I’ve had some Protestant women tell me “I’m practically a pagan that showers.”

Do you really want to marry such a woman and deal with that for the rest of your life? The "little" things that annoy you before marriage may seem cute or tolerable, but after marriage, they are 10x more difficult. An Orthodox should NOT marry a heterodox until they are baptised into Orthodoxy and not before. "Promises" to do so don't count, because they rarely happen.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

What a hideous insult!
I have also encountered Protestants trying to say icons are idol worship. I've also encountered them trying to tear down the Mother of God.
The average person does not have these reactions, but I've long thought it's a pretty tricky balance, because we would rather have a devout partner, of course, but on the other hand if a person is really entrenched in devout Protestantism, they may be more dogmatic in opposition to Orthodoxy.

The solution to that is education. Orthodoxy isn’t Islam. We don’t have a brownie points system like the 5 Pillars. Our liturgical life isn’t trying to get God to like us. Like our Protestant friends, we believe we are saved by faith. Without faith, baptism is just water and the anointings are only olive oil. The liturgy is ancient and rooted in the early church. I don’t want to lose my ancient traditions that go back to the Exodus days. They’re usually receptive when I frame it like that. I kind of think “pagan who showers” was funny. The only one that really bothered me much was “you guys don’t worship.”

 

[analyst_green]

Do you really want to marry such a woman and deal with that for the rest of your life? The "little" things that annoy you before marriage may seem cute or tolerable, but after marriage, they are 10x more difficult. An Orthodox should NOT marry a heterodox until they are baptised into Orthodoxy and not before. "Promises" to do so don't count, because they rarely happen.

Many Protestants and especially Catholics have strong resistance to conversion because they are so entrenched in their beliefs. I recall one priest describing how former atheists or New Agers are easier to catechize and will become Orthodox quicker on average than Protestants or Catholics. Because the latter can't get over either their iconoclasm or the papacy, whereas the latter former accept the proper teachings without hesitation, as long as they have accepted Christ.

With that being said, we may fare better with converting a virtuous secular woman or a nominal Christian rather than a devout Protestant woman.