Finasteride, Dutasteride and Hair Transplants

[FrancisK]

On the subject of hair transplants, a young coworker of mine had a receding hairline and a thinning spot at the top back of his head, so he went to Turkey and got hair plugs around the beginning of this year. Apparently Turkey is known as a place to get competent work like this done for a good price.

They have grown out enough that his hair looks natural now. Another guy in the office has resolved to do the same.

Yea I know lots of guys who went to Turkey, the Turkish doctors actually have come here now and do it at a fraction of the price the typical USA FUE doctors charge. I hope they screw up the whole market, the fact that any procedure costs so much in the USA is disgusting. Anyway....

My cousin who is very wealthy got his done in Turkey recently, we all told him he was an idiot as the cost of a hair transplant means nothing to him so why not do it here in the USA just in case, go to the best doctor possible. His reasoning was that they're just better at it in Turkey which I didn't think was true and wasn't worth the risk no matter how little.

Welp.....his transplant got infected and would not stop bleeding he had to stay in Turkey another week. He's back here it's been a couple months and his head is still all jacked up, he might lose all his hair entirely now. Not typical for that to happen at all but still....for every probably 5 people I know who had successful super cheap surgery in another country I know one who it didn't go well for.

One day I'll tell you guys the story of the bodybuilder guy I know who drove 20 hours by himself down to Tijuana to have lipo haha....

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Yea I know lots of guys who went to Turkey, the Turkish doctors actually have come here now and do it at a fraction of the price the typical USA FUE doctors charge. I hope they screw up the whole market, the fact that any procedure costs so much in the USA is disgusting. Anyway....

My cousin who is very wealthy got his done in Turkey recently, we all told him he was an idiot as the cost of a hair transplant means nothing to him so why not do it here in the USA just in case, go to the best doctor possible. His reasoning was that they're just better at it in Turkey which I didn't think was true and wasn't worth the risk no matter how little.

Welp.....his transplant got infected and would not stop bleeding he had to stay in Turkey another week. He's back here it's been a couple months and his head is still all jacked up, he might lose all his hair entirely now. Not typical for that to happen at all but still....for every probably 5 people I know who had successful super cheap surgery in another country I know one who it didn't go well for.

One day I'll tell you guys the story of the bodybuilder guy I know who drove 20 hours by himself down to Tijuana to have lipo haha....

There are never shortcuts in life and you always get what you pay for.

A Turkish hair job is like an African Hooker in my book.

 

[Holymanaspen]

I'm 35 and been on fin for 4 years
Yeah oral gives me slight sides, topical less so.

I'm currently on oral because I'm single and not sexually active.
I'm also on mild TRT, which has meant that despite being on fin, my hair has gradually thinned over the past few years.

I'll just keep doing it like this till I need a transplant. Don't want to have to wear a hair system for at least another 10 years

As a gentleman above said, looks do matter in a marriage. I'm short (5'8), so I don't really want to be bald as well.

 

[Johnnyvee]

From the data I've seen Finasteride is problematic, (even topical) especially the reduction in insulin sensitivity. Minoxidil has some issues with eye pressure that I don't like. And in both cases you have to use them chronically for the desired effects.

Male pattern baldness is not caused by the direct effect of DHT on scalp follicles, that's only a hair growth regulatory mechanism. The real cause is the interaction of DHT with the skull bone cells in those genetically susceptible. The skull bones grow excessively and ridges/bumps are formed as they push up against each other along the scalp suture lines, much like mountain chain formation.

From there you have to understand the scalp morphology with the galea aponeurotica etc. It's a long lecture tbh. Modern medicine knows nothing as usual. Just don't ask me to explain in detail as I have enough problems at the moment But you can imagine a drum skin being stretched tighter and tighter as the scalp protrudes "up" into the fused MPB-prone galea/skin layer held in place by muscles in the front and back. The skin on the sides and back is not fused to the galea, that's the only difference. There is no follicle "priming" for DHT related hair loss, it's complete baloney. ..

 

[FrancisK]

From the data I've seen Finasteride is problematic, (even topical) especially the reduction in insulin sensitivity. Minoxidil has some issues with eye pressure that I don't like. And in both cases you have to use them chronically for the desired effects.

Male pattern baldness is not caused by the direct effect of DHT on scalp follicles, that's only a hair growth regulatory mechanism. The real cause is the interaction of DHT with the skull bone cells in those genetically susceptible. The skull bones grow excessively and ridges/bumps are formed as they push up against each other along the scalp suture lines, much like mountain chain formation.

From there you have to understand the scalp morphology with the galea aponeurotica etc. It's a long lecture tbh. Modern medicine knows nothing as usual. Just don't ask me to explain in detail as I have enough problems at the moment But you can imagine a drum skin being stretched tighter and tighter as the scalp protrudes "up" into the fused MPB-prone galea/skin layer held in place by muscles in the front and back. The skin on the sides and back is not fused to the galea, that's the only difference. There is no follicle "priming" for DHT related hair loss, it's complete baloney. ..

Very interesting, do you know why transplanted hairs don't suffer from this?

 

[Johnnyvee]

Very interesting, do you know why transplanted hairs don't suffer from this?

They do, but it's a complex subject. I'm not really motivated to get into long explanations on this. But it has to do with the tension in the galea/skin layer. More tension, more loss of transplanted hair in time. That's why crown/vertex transpants are usually not that successful...

"...Among 112 subjects 50.89% had grade 4, 46.42% had grade 5, 2.67% had grade 6 alopecia respectfully. The 4 year follow up grading of hair loss showed moderate reduction in transplanted hair density in 55.35%, slightly reduced density in 27.67% greatly reduced in 8.03% and no change in the density in 8.92% subjects...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8061642/

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

I have reasons to believe that it's likely I'll start losing hair eventually, potentially within the next 5-10 years in the worst case scenario. I plan to simply embrace it and shave my head when it happens and becomes noticeable.

How does shaving your head work, how does one go about doing it? I want to know in advance. Do you need to go to a barber or can you do it yourself? Would you need to keep shaving it often, or is there a way to just lose it all forever immediately and stop worrying about it?

 

[cosine]

I have reasons to believe that it's likely I'll start losing hair eventually, potentially within the next 5-10 years in the worst case scenario. I plan to simply embrace it and shave my head when it happens and becomes noticeable.

How does shaving your head work, how does one go about doing it? I want to know in advance. Do you need to go to a barber or can you do it yourself? Would you need to keep shaving it often, or is there a way to just lose it all forever immediately and stop worrying about it?

I don't shave my head, but I buzz it with a Wahl Balding Clippers and a #0.5 which is 1/16in. As small as it goes. I have one little mirror hung in the shower, and a second one I can hold up to look at the back and make sure I get coverage. I buzz it every two weeks, or more. More than two weeks and I look stupid.

The difficult part is doing the back of the neck properly; you won't really be able to make it clean in the back on your own the way a barber can. If that matters to you, then visit a barber every 2 weeks. At least a buzz is about as cheap as barber services get.

I got a hair transplant in Turkey. Went to one of the better clinics within Turkey, so still much cheaper than the US, but expensive for Turkey. They arguably do it better than most US clinics... "go to the surgeon who does a lot of surgeries". Definitely do your research because otherwise you pay $500 for the proverbial African hooker as @Get2choppaaa mentioned.

It might sound odd to have a hair transplant and still buzz it, but it still looks way better than it did before. Definitely my sore spot for vanity.

Before that I attempted topical versions of finasteride, dutasteride, minoxidil. I got side effects; it killed my sleep, and also made me really anxious and sad. I would wake up at 3:00am feeling like I was "done" sleeping, except I'd only slept for 3-4 hours, so I still felt awake but tired. A little research suggested that finasteride/dutasteride can interfere with production of neurochemicals needed for sleep. When they are used up, you are done sleeping, even if you aren't rested. This also made me wonder what other side effects it gave me but I didn't notice.

Weirdly, a hair transplant now seems more straightforward and less scary than meds to me. There's a surgeon involved and it's done, instead of being on finasteride or minoxidil for a long time. And with minoxidil, if you stop taking it, the minoxidil hairs fall out.

 

[Bird]

I have reasons to believe that it's likely I'll start losing hair eventually, potentially within the next 5-10 years in the worst case scenario. I plan to simply embrace it and shave my head when it happens and becomes noticeable.

How does shaving your head work, how does one go about doing it? I want to know in advance. Do you need to go to a barber or can you do it yourself? Would you need to keep shaving it often, or is there a way to just lose it all forever immediately and stop worrying about it?

I use a hair trimmer set to 5mm and move it over my skull, it's pretty easy. You can hear if all the hair is cut and see if nothing falls off. To visually check, you need 2 mirrors, one fixed and one makeup mirror. But there are also sets available for this purpose, I remember we had a discussion on RVF, but unfortunately this thread is not in my archive.

 

[FrancisK]

I don't shave my head, but I buzz it with a Wahl Balding Clippers and a #0.5 which is 1/16in. As small as it goes. I have one little mirror hung in the shower, and a second one I can hold up to look at the back and make sure I get coverage. I buzz it every two weeks, or more. More than two weeks and I look stupid.

The difficult part is doing the back of the neck properly; you won't really be able to make it clean in the back on your own the way a barber can. If that matters to you, then visit a barber every 2 weeks. At least a buzz is about as cheap as barber services get.

I got a hair transplant in Turkey. Went to one of the better clinics within Turkey, so still much cheaper than the US, but expensive for Turkey. They arguably do it better than most US clinics... "go to the surgeon who does a lot of surgeries". Definitely do your research because otherwise you pay $500 for the proverbial African hooker as @Get2choppaaa mentioned.

It might sound odd to have a hair transplant and still buzz it, but it still looks way better than it did before. Definitely my sore spot for vanity.

Before that I attempted topical versions of finasteride, dutasteride, minoxidil. I got side effects; it killed my sleep, and also made me really anxious and sad. I would wake up at 3:00am feeling like I was "done" sleeping, except I'd only slept for 3-4 hours, so I still felt awake but tired. A little research suggested that finasteride/dutasteride can interfere with production of neurochemicals needed for sleep. When they are used up, you are done sleeping, even if you aren't rested. This also made me wonder what other side effects it gave me but I didn't notice.

Weirdly, a hair transplant now seems more straightforward and less scary than meds to me. There's a surgeon involved and it's done, instead of being on finasteride or minoxidil for a long time. And with minoxidil, if you stop taking it, the minoxidil hairs fall out.

Thanks for sharing this, so after your transplant you didn't use any hair drugs? How have the transplanted hairs held up along with the rest of your hair?

 

[ElectricHeadache]

Best method for head shaving is get a headblade. Surprised so many of you bother with transplants or other stuff. Once a week is ideal but I can be lazy and just leave it for a few weeks. Just shave it you puffs.

 

[cosine]

Thanks for sharing this, so after your transplant you didn't use any hair drugs? How have the transplanted hairs held up along with the rest of your hair?

Zero hair drugs. That was part of my deal. I wanted to be 100% done with them. Only one I'd consider now is a daily vitamin with collagen or any other naturally occurring nutrients like that. But I eat healthy and exercise a lot. So frankly I don't see the point in extra vitamins either.

If anything, the transplanted hairs actually hold up better! They are pretty dang permanent once it's done. A good clinic will "fade" new and old hairs so when you're 10-15 years older it'll age well. And... I was like, NW5. Pretty dang bald.

On the front hairline the "donor hairs" were all from the back of the head. For the mid-scalp and the crown, 50% of the hairs were from the front of my neck/under my chin. This means they can get it done while taking fewer hairs from your head. Turns out the neckbeard hairs are particularly durable

 

[FrancisK]

Zero hair drugs. That was part of my deal. I wanted to be 100% done with them. Only one I'd consider now is a daily vitamin with collagen or any other naturally occurring nutrients like that. But I eat healthy and exercise a lot. So frankly I don't see the point in extra vitamins either.

If anything, the transplanted hairs actually hold up better! They are pretty dang permanent once it's done. A good clinic will "fade" new and old hairs so when you're 10-15 years older it'll age well. And... I was like, NW5. Pretty dang bald.

On the front hairline the "donor hairs" were all from the back of the head. For the mid-scalp and the crown, 50% of the hairs were from the front of my neck/under my chin. This means they can get it done while taking fewer hairs from your head. Turns out the neckbeard hairs are particularly durable

Thanks for the reply! So what you're saying is that you were pretty much completely bald so you didn't really have anything further to lose? How many grafts was it?

Awesome that it has held up so well for you with none of those nasty drugs!

 

[cosine]

Thanks for the reply! So what you're saying is that you were pretty much completely bald so you didn't really have anything further to lose? How many grafts was it?

Awesome that it has held up so well for you with none of those nasty drugs!

Correct -- pretty much completely bald, and the remaining hairs on the top of my head were obviously on their way out.

I had 4400 grafts. This didn't fill in the crown area, so that part is still mostly bald. It'll take a second surgery to fill in the crown, and they just don't want to harvest too much at once. But, the hairline/top looks so much better that I honestly don't care about it anymore. It has ceased bothering me. It's possible that I'll need a touch-up of a couple hundred grafts in 10-15 years.

 

[stadtaffe]

There is a supplement MSM - methylsulfonylmethane

Also occurs in foods and is supposed to do something for hair retention.

I don't have this problem thankfully but got worried one day after a bit came out in the shower so panicked and bought some MSM but didn't end up taking it.

 

[FrancisK]

There is a supplement MSM - methylsulfonylmethane

Also occurs in foods and is supposed to do something for hair retention.

I don't have this problem thankfully but got worried one day after a bit came out in the shower so panicked and bought some MSM but didn't end up taking it.

Interesting, MSM actually comes in a joint supplement I use. Was there a study or something of that nature where you found this info?

Edit:

https://www.naturalmedicinejournal.com/journal/beauty-from-within

 

[john_Jea]

What would be the best procedure to prevent hair loss without using any of these chemicals? As in maintaining the current coverage. I noticed that my hair has gotten noticeably thin in a short time, it's still fully covering my scalp but the norwood is starting.

I was thinking of opting for a shorter hair cut so I wouldn't have to style it with hair gel. I've very rarely used shampoo for my hair, from what I've read ketoconazole is suppose to help with maintaining hair so I assume that would be the easiest starting point. I've seen derma rollers mentions but usually with minoxidil applications, do the rollers do anything by themselves for hair growth on your scalp?

If I could maintain the current hair coverage I'd be at peace, I'm fine with going bald eventually but I'm in my early 20's so any lifestyle changes to counter the thinning would be worth it.

 

[FrancisK]

What would be the best procedure to prevent hair loss without using any of these chemicals? As in maintaining the current coverage. I noticed that my hair has gotten noticeably thin in a short time, it's still fully covering my scalp but the norwood is starting.

I was thinking of opting for a shorter hair cut so I wouldn't have to style it with hair gel. I've very rarely used shampoo for my hair, from what I've read ketoconazole is suppose to help with maintaining hair so I assume that would be the easiest starting point. I've seen derma rollers mentions but usually with minoxidil applications, do the rollers do anything by themselves for hair growth on your scalp?

If I could maintain the current hair coverage I'd be at peace, I'm fine with going bald eventually but I'm in my early 20's so any lifestyle changes to counter the thinning would be worth it.

You can't stop it, even with the nasty drugs you can't. Best you can do is try to hold on longer, but that is with the drugs.

It's genetic if it's going to happen it's going to happen. The nasty drugs can maybe slow it down but that's about it, some people respond well to them and some don't.

Nizoral shampoo to block DHT at the scalp, derma roller for blood flow, tea tree oil on your scalp to promote growth...there is lots of "natural" crap if you search it's endless but honestly they won't do much if anything. I would list off some supplements and topicals also but even those can have some nasty sides, for instance saw palmetto and a step further with RU58841.

Live a healthy lifestyle, be active, cut out processed junk, eat leafy greens and lean meats, do blood work and fix your deficiencies if any. Not saying any of those things will stop or even slow down the inevitable but if you're not willing to take the real drugs then it's all you've got.

Or just screw it and get a hair transplant eventually....

 

[john_Jea]

You can't stop it, even with the nasty drugs you can't. Best you can do is try to hold on longer, but that is with the drugs.

It's genetic if it's going to happen it's going to happen. The nasty drugs can maybe slow it down but that's about it, some people respond well to them and some don't.

Nizoral shampoo to block DHT at the scalp, derma roller for blood flow, tea tree oil on your scalp to promote growth...there is lots of "natural" crap if you search it's endless but honestly they won't do much if anything. I would list off some supplements and topicals also but even those can have some nasty sides, for instance saw palmetto and a step further with RU58841.

Live a healthy lifestyle, be active, cut out processed junk, eat leafy greens and lean meats, do blood work and fix your deficiencies if any. Not saying any of those things will stop or even slow down the inevitable but if you're not willing to take the real drugs then it's all you've got.

Thanks for giving it to me straight at least, I'll guess this will be my motivator to make better lifestyle choices. The hair loss isn't visible yet unless you look for it so I'll just hope it will be a slow and gradual change.

Or just screw it and get a hair transplant eventually....

I'm baldpilled now, it is what it is.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Thanks for giving it to me straight at least, I'll guess this will be my motivator to make better lifestyle choices. The hair loss isn't visible yet unless you look for it so I'll just hope it will be a slow and gradual change.


I'm baldpilled now, it is what it is.

I went bald at 26. Never negatively affected me with women, self esteem, or any way in my life.

In fact I enjoy being bald.

Conveys a sense of "a hole " that adequately suits my ego.