Donald Trump: Criticism & Debate Thread

[Cooper]

Around 60% of Americans can't afford to cover an emergency and are living paycheck to paycheck. The situation has gotten worse, but very gradually over the last several decades.

One striking stat I looked at was the Married With Children narrative in 1990 Chicago, where Al Bundy was able to raise a family with a stay at home mother on a shoe salesman's salary. I worked the numbers and that scenario turned out to be realistic back then (median home price in 1990 Chicago $106k. and his salary aroud $25k). Today that family with the wife working would just be able to rent an apartment in a bad Chicago neighborhood.

The upper quarter in the US is doing OK, and the top 10%-20% have had good appreciations in their 401k, home equity and portfolios, while the bottom 2/3 are struggling with inflation in housing, food, healthcare, education reducing their purchasing power.

We are in what is known as a K-shaped economy:

The K-shaped economy of the rich doing fine and everyone else struggling is back — and it could mean a rocky 2026

The US is once again teetering into an economy where high earners keep things afloat, and lower earners see cooling prospects.

www.businessinsider.com

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/economist-popularized-k-shaped-economy-174257576.html

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

Around 60% of Americans can't afford to cover an emergency and are living paycheck to paycheck. The situation has gotten worse, but very gradually over the last several decades.

One striking stat I looked at was the Married With Children narrative in 1990 Chicago, where Al Bundy was able to raise a family with a stay at home mother on a shoe salesman's salary. I worked the numbers and that scenario turned out to be realistic back then (median home price in 1990 Chicago $106k. and his salary aroud $25k). Today that family with the wife working would just be able to rent an apartment in a bad Chicago neighborhood.

The upper quarter in the US is doing OK, and the top 10%-20% have had good appreciations in their 401k, home equity and portfolios, while the bottom 2/3 are struggling with inflation in housing, food, healthcare, education reducing their purchasing power.

We are in what is known as a K-shaped economy:

The K-shaped economy of the rich doing fine and everyone else struggling is back — and it could mean a rocky 2026

The US is once again teetering into an economy where high earners keep things afloat, and lower earners see cooling prospects.

www.businessinsider.com

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/economist-popularized-k-shaped-economy-174257576.html

I don't know if anyone here follows the economy or the stock markets in much detail, but this term is called the "K-Shaped economy". Meaning the top 10% are doing better than ever before and are keeping the stock market bubble and retail spending at okay levels. It covers up how bad the economy really is doing. The bottom 90% are getting destroyed. I am in the top 10%, but I actually follow this stuff and talk to a lot of people about it on a weekly basis and I believe we are truly in a depression.

It isn't scary we are in a depression, what is scary is we have the Epstein Administration pushing for the mother of all wars, because they are too low IQ/satanic to realize that we simply cannot afford it.

 

[InspCallahan]

The problem is lots of High paying jobs are tweaked with political dollars attached...

Another is...the printing has destroyed average jobs wage value that historically would allow a Functioning Middle class...eventually that metric gets moved for the connected, so they don't feel the pain as much...the Metric hasn't moved for 90+% of the people.

Someone mentioned adapt...well that's true to an extent...but what does that mean necessarily? Sounds like the Learn to Code Mantra of group that was in the Money and they feel like they've worked hard and they deserve it. Ok....there is some advancement in certain sectors, but not always..so we need this constant moving around to get the $100K+ income? The problem is is that the money policies have favored Finance over Workers...folks lived and died working the relative same job and had "Things" in the past..
The money Policies have favored what I call Rich Man Socialism to shore up and continue the Boom Bust cycle of constant fiat influx and to keep the Demand up. This ends badly for the working class...cool story if you got to live through the stable times and bought on the cheap, not so if ur a kid without help or means to get ahead of the game. And I'm not saying folks don't need to leave to find opportunities, but this constant movement is a Product of instability and creates an environment where the Oligarchs get No Community Pushback...thus the constant search for the Golden Goose.

Capitalism without debt clearing is just Socialism for the Rich. This is a very Anti-European and Christian Economic Model...it doesn't even favor the True Capable Elite, just a bunch of Pi$$ head folks that think they have privilege to stay Wealthy forever.

 

[Pravoslavac]

Can the farmer be angry at the snake?

True farmer kills the snake without hesitation the moment he sees it. Doesn't give him any chances.

 

[FrancisK]

Someone mentioned adapt...well that's true to an extent...but what does that mean necessarily?

It means you do what it takes brother, you don't hold yourself back by staying on the easy comfy route when you know you're going downhill.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

The problem is lots of High paying jobs are tweaked with political dollars attached...

What do you consider a high paying job?

What investments in your own skill set do you think people who have those high paying jobs have?

Another is...the printing has destroyed average jobs wage value that historically would allow a Functioning Middle class...eventually that metric gets moved for the connected, so they don't feel the pain as much...the Metric hasn't moved for 90+% of the people.

Doubling the work force with women and illegals certainly is more of an impact than money supply, though inflation lost 9/11 and the national debt has been a huge impact on felt wealth. Really big concentration under the Obama era.

Someone mentioned adapt...well that's true to an extent...but what does that mean necessarily? Sounds like the Learn to Code Mantra of group that was in the Money and they feel like they've worked hard and they deserve it. Ok....there is some advancement in certain sectors, but not always..so we need this constant moving around to get the $100K+ income? The problem is is that the money policies have favored Finance over Workers...folks lived and died working the relative same job and had "Things" in the past..

This is not true. If you have a unique skill set you can make over six figures by being strategic in where you work and leveraging your Expertise.

There is always stratification in all categories. You can't expect to make a 6 figure salary while doing behaviors that people making 50 k exhibit. There is a paid price to action for all people.

The money Policies have favored what I call Rich Man Socialism to shore up and continue the Boom Bust cycle of constant fiat influx and to keep the Demand up. This ends badly for the working class...cool story if you got to live through the stable times and bought on the cheap, not so if ur a kid without help or means to get ahead of the game. And I'm not saying folks don't need to leave to find opportunities, but this constant movement is a Product of instability and creates an environment where the Oligarchs get No Community Pushback...thus the constant search for the Golden Goose.

Milage varies. I've worked at 3 different companies post military. 1 was due to no upward mobility. 1 was a divestment and layoff. Over the 6 years I've more than doubled my income... And always sought progressive roles. I've worked at a small company where most people work for 20 years. If they'd have given me the money requested they'd have had me for life....but I had to go to bigger companies to get compensated my worth.

Capitalism without debt clearing is just Socialism for the Rich. This is a very Anti-European and Christian Economic Model...it doesn't even favor the True Capable Elite, just a bunch of Pi$$ head folks that think they have privilege to stay Wealthy forever.

Capitalism still provides the most capable means for people to have upward mobility for people. I do agree there are things that need to be done.

Just watch the big short and note how screwed the system was at the time of the 2008. Only a matter of time until that happens again.

 

[Giordano Bruno]

True farmer kills the snake without hesitation the moment he sees it. Doesn't give him any chances.

The biggest criticism of Q is that it's unChristian.

God is in the light. Even if Q wasn't a psyop, it works in darkness, relies on deception, and is an unGodly working that intends to trick the great enemy rather than fighting them face on on.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

The biggest criticism of Q is that it's unChristian.

God is in the light. Even if Q wasn't a psyop, it works in darkness, relies on deception, and is an unGodly working that intends to trick the great enemy rather than fighting them face on on.

It's a psyop. Full stop.

 

[InspCallahan]

I'm not putting a cap on your drive to do better or succeed. The reality is the system is more State Sponsored Usury than Free Enterprise and much of it is Artificial Demand through The Myriad of Federal Programs and or Regulations for some industries with Non Market fixed pricing and just plain old hey prime the Pump Federal Reserve and let my industry create Artificial demand because things are slow. Home Building is a Perfect Example of this Artificial Demand abuse by Special Interests in that sector. Definitely a Consumptive not a Productive endeavor We see here in Texas.

Choppa if these Capitalist Jews pull the Weimar Republic shenanigans they'll make Millionaires and guys that make 150K or more dollars a year paupers in seconds. I have a question as far as these Big Corporate gigs...how many of these over-hyped jobs are really and be honest more productive than the low wage Productive jobs that actually generate wealth? And yes people who are in historical more advanced roles, such as engineers (broad term there), should be paid more...but their are many wasteful positions touted as something useful, but in the scheme of things aren't.

As far as our Global World...These jews love the making money thing, but not the risk or potential downturn of a True Free Enterprise system that Grows with a Wealth of Savings not fiat from the political winds from the Fed.

Bottom line...with this system most will fall behind because the value of labor has been sacrificed because of the over finacialization of the economy. Now I don't claim to know it all or have all or any answers..but around where I live, high paying jobs are generally government and Healthcare which is heavily subsidized for example. Railroad another example. Lots of considerations in a complex issue like the Economy, but sadly as I see it...folks that have average jobs and most people do...the world needs more Indians usually, could have a home 2 cars, etc. Where now that isn't happening...
Your telling me many that valued their community and family and didn't adapt and move and move and move somehow that's backwards?
Too me that adapt lots of times makes folks an atomized individual who does well for himself, but is really just serving the system that relies on crushing natural Blood Communities which are a guard against the Jew'ing of our Christian European societies.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

It means you do what it takes brother, you don't hold yourself back by staying on the easy comfy route when you know you're going downhill.

You think the entire bottom 90% is only wanting the easy route?

This is peak anti-worker boomerism, if so. I know so many people in the bottom 90% working 2 or 3 jobs and living on little to nothing. If you want to really kick the hornets nest, this is the exact way to do it.

 

[FrancisK]

You think the entire bottom 90% is only wanting the easy route?

This is peak anti-worker boomerism, if so. I know so many people in the bottom 90% working 2 or 3 jobs and living on little to nothing. If you want to really kick the hornets nest, this is the exact way to do it.

Please don't talk about your made up numbers like they are facts.

God forbid anyone stop the rain on your manipulative pity party, spare me the buzzwords and made up people that you clam to know, your life is the very definition of "boomerism".

 

[FrancisK]

I'm not putting a cap on your drive to do better or succeed. The reality is the system is more State Sponsored Usury than Free Enterprise and much of it is Artificial Demand through The Myriad of Federal Programs and or Regulations for some industries with Non Market fixed pricing and just plain old hey prime the Pump Federal Reserve and let my industry create Artificial demand because things are slow. Home Building is a Perfect Example of this Artificial Demand abuse by Special Interests in that sector. Definitely a Consumptive not a Productive endeavor We see here in Texas.

Choppa if these Capitalist Jews pull the Weimar Republic shenanigans they'll make Millionaires and guys that make 150K or more dollars a year paupers in seconds. I have a question as far as these Big Corporate gigs...how many of these over-hyped jobs are really and be honest more productive than the low wage Productive jobs that actually generate wealth? And yes people who are in historical more advanced roles, such as engineers (broad term there), should be paid more...but their are many wasteful positions touted as something useful, but in the scheme of things aren't.

As far as our Global World...These jews love the making money thing, but not the risk or potential downturn of a True Free Enterprise system that Grows with a Wealth of Savings not fiat from the political winds from the Fed.

Bottom line...with this system most will fall behind because the value of labor has been sacrificed because of the over finacialization of the economy. Now I don't claim to know it all or have all or any answers..but around where I live, high paying jobs are generally government and Healthcare which is heavily subsidized for example. Railroad another example. Lots of considerations in a complex issue like the Economy, but sadly as I see it...folks that have average jobs and most people do...the world needs more Indians usually, could have a home 2 cars, etc. Where now that isn't happening...
Your telling me many that valued their community and family and didn't adapt and move and move and move somehow that's backwards?
Too me that adapt lots of times makes folks an atomized individual who does well for himself, but is really just serving the system that relies on crushing natural Blood Communities which are a guard against the Jew'ing of our Christian European societies.

That's all fine and understood, nobody disputes that there are big problems with the system but we can't turn things back to the rose colored glasses concept of what they used to be so the question is what do you yourself do here and now.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

Please don't talk about your made up numbers like they are facts.

God forbid anyone stop the rain on your manipulative pity party, spare me the buzzwords and made up people that you clam to know, your life is the very definition of "boomerism".

LOL, trust me, there is nothing more that I want than the very few successful people in this disgusting country to tell the bottom 95% that they are lazy, worthless, and not deserving of the life their parents had. This will go way further in waking them up than telling them that their race is being replaced or that our country is run by satanic pedophiles. Sure, telling them these things might motivate them to distrust the govt. but telling them they are lazy, after working 2 to 3 jobs and having over half their income stolen by some form of taxation, and having not enough left over to enjoy even half the life their parents had, oh boy. Yes, please keep telling them this.

Yes, I do talk to people like this, weekly. I have a very social job, and the economy is by far the biggest subject. People talk about how bad the economy is nonstop. The price of everything is insane, the cost of living is insane, income is so far behind that many are either taking on a 2nd or 3rd job or learning to live with less than a low-quality life or even having to move back in with their parents.

A large majority of people will never be willing to work 60 hours a week, hating their entire existence, just to live a middle-class life that their parents and grandparents could have working 30 to 40 hours a week at a job they enjoyed. Telling them they are lazy/worthless for wanting what their parents had is the fuel added to this growing fire that I personally appreciate. Thank you.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

That's all fine and understood, nobody disputes that there are big problems with the system but we can't turn things back to the rose colored glasses concept of what they used to be so the question is what do you yourself do here and now.

These doomers are missing something philosophical and existential in nature. First, they/we are lucky to exist (i.e. to have been born). And the reason we exist in this "reality" is because of the artificial explosive growth produced by jewish systems of usury. (((It))) is a double edged sword in that respect. It's similar in nature to how we are living longer than ever yet some endlessly are claiming "We're being poisoned by our food!", true, but "The Poison" that is killing us is also allowing us to live longer. And so when framed like this, "The Poison" isn't actually poison, but an elixir of health and longevity. But doomers gotta' doom.

The jews (and others in the billionaire and trillionaire class) needed explosive growth in the 1980's and 1990's in order to finance their explosive increase in personal income and assets. More humans (of any race/nationality) equaled more sales, more tax revenue, and more profits for the elites. This allowed them to build bigger mansions and own more toys in the form of private jets and yachts and the like. But it also allowed us to have bigger houses and nicer cars and we gleefully accepted those perks in exchange for flooding our country with the illegals needed to produce this massive growth and increase in our so-called "standard of living." And so we have been complicit in our own demise [and still are as there is currently no collective call to arms to put non-whites (including jews) back in check].

And so the concept of jew produced mindless consumerism based on "more, more, more" gave way to the Gen X and Z human life forms that now sit on this board and endlessly claim how bad their life and life in general is. But when the existential question which they avoid comes knocking, "Would you rather not exist, or have the opportunity to turn lemons into lemonade?" they baulk and cry, "Muh, boomers handed us lemons!" And then that's the end of the "conversation."

A victim mentality of powerlessness where (((The System))) is always to blame for one's imaginary "shitty life" is not a way forward. "I think therefore I am." You want to own a home and you don't think you can? Then either move forward in life without owning a home, find a way to make it happen, or recalibrate your goals to be more in line with current realities. Stop romanticizing "The way it use to be," which in reality was, "The way it never was." So what, people in the 1950's could afford a home, they also only lived to 70 instead of 80. Would you rather own a home or have 10 years added to your life?

And so we are back to Frame Game 101, if you want to change the way you feel about life you have to change the way you are thinking about life. 500 years ago people also felt gloom and doom, you are not special, and your experience is not unique within the existential confines of the human condition. Get over it.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

These doomers are missing something philosophical and existential in nature. First, they/we are lucky to exist (i.e. to have been born). And the reason we exist in this "reality" is because of the artificial explosive growth produced by jewish systems of usury. (((It))) is a double edged sword in that respect. It's similar in nature to how we are living longer than ever yet some endlessly are claiming "We're being poisoned by our food!", true, but "The Poison" that is killing us is also allowing us to live longer. And so when framed like this, "The Poison" isn't actually poison, but an elixir of health and longevity. But doomers gotta' doom.

The jews (and others in the billionaire and trillionaire class) needed explosive growth in the 1980's and 1990's in order to finance their explosive increase in personal income and assets. More humans (of any race/nationality) equaled more sales, more tax revenue, and more profits for the elites. This allowed them to build bigger mansions and own more toys in the form of private jets and yachts and the like. But it also allowed us to have bigger houses and nicer cars and we gleefully accepted those perks in exchange for flooding our country with the illegals needed to produce this massive growth and increase in our so-called "standard of living." And so we have been complicit in our own demise [and still are as there is currently no collective call to arms to put non-whites (including jews) back in check].

And so the concept of jew produced mindless consumerism based on "more, more, more" gave way to the Gen X and Z human life forms that now sit on this board and endlessly claim how bad their life and life in general is. But when the existential question which they avoid comes knocking, "Would you rather not exist, or have the opportunity to turn lemons into lemonade?" they baulk and cry, "Muh, boomers handed us lemons!" And then that's the end of the "conversation."

A victim mentality of powerlessness where (((The System))) is always to blame for one's imaginary "shitty life" is not a way forward. "I think therefore I am." You want to own a home and you don't think you can? Then either move forward in life without owning a home, find a way to make it happen, or recalibrate your goals to be more in line with current realities. Stop romanticizing "The way it use to be," which in reality was, "The way it never was." So what, people in the 1950's could afford a home, they also only lived to 70 instead of 80. Would you rather own a home or have 10 years added to your life?

And so we are back to Frame Game 101, if you want to change the way you feel about life you have to change the way you are thinking about life. 500 years ago people also felt gloom and doom, you are not special, and your experience is not unique within the existential confines of the human condition. Get over it.

Correct, and what did White people do 500 years ago in this same situation? They overthrew the evil system and rebuilt a new one that was beneficial to everyone. Which is exactly why our satanic elites are bringing non-Whites into White countries, they know they are more compliant and willing to accept a shitty life.

So, do White people once again rise up and overthrow an evil system and kick out the third worlders, or do White people go extinct and the west collapses and becomes a more violent Brazil? Stay tuned, it will only be one way or the other but telling White people they are lazy for wanting a decent life is a great way to get them more motivated, so I very much support this talking point being used against them.

 

[Pravoslavac]

Even if Q wasn't a psyop

Q is a bolshevik era psy-op. Who in 2026 is believing that gay shit other than dumb boomers...

 

[TheLearningWife]

It is possible to stash over 40% of a 6 figure income if you get creative and live debt-free. Even with kids. You don’t have to live off rice and beans to do it, either. But you do have to wrestle with modern notions of what the bare minimum is and refine your spending to peak efficiency. You may find it’s possible to do more with less. It helps that my husband is talented and teaches himself new skills constantly. I try to do the same. It’s good for you.

People still move to America from other places because of the potential to make money, for what it’s worth.

There are 200-something homes close to me under 300k that are 3/2. It is like this all over the state. One of the former hottest markets! Unheard of in 2022! It’s supposed to be peak buying season. I have seen houses under 200k. Many have been listed since last summer and are asking under the previous selling price. Way more foreclosures/short sales. Flirting with 2019 prices. You could put $7k down and have a mortgage around $2,000 or a little less included taxes and insurance. I just did the calculator with a 6% 30 year.

We have exercised extreme patience for almost 4 years. Many people have told us our way of life is inspiring; it involves laundromats, gas stoves, and comically small cupboards but it beats buying or building any of these overpriced houses for the past 4 years. Patience, patience, extreme patience. People laughed at me in 2022, they said housing prices would never go down.

No matter what Trump or any president does, the choices you make in your own personal life are going to have a bigger effect. People were literally complaining about close to the same thing 20 years ago. And probably about 20 years before that in the late 1980s. And then in 1971 when the dollar was taken off the gold standard. And so on. As long as people didn’t shoot themselves in the foot the past 4 years and give up, they’ll be ok.






.

 

[magoo]

These doomers are missing something philosophical and existential in nature. First, they/we are lucky to exist (i.e. to have been born). And the reason we exist in this "reality" is because of the artificial explosive growth produced by jewish systems of usury. (((It))) is a double edged sword in that respect. It's similar in nature to how we are living longer than ever yet some endlessly are claiming "We're being poisoned by our food!", true, but "The Poison" that is killing us is also allowing us to live longer. And so when framed like this, "The Poison" isn't actually poison, but an elixir of health and longevity. But doomers gotta' doom.

The jews (and others in the billionaire and trillionaire class) needed explosive growth in the 1980's and 1990's in order to finance their explosive increase in personal income and assets. More humans (of any race/nationality) equaled more sales, more tax revenue, and more profits for the elites. This allowed them to build bigger mansions and own more toys in the form of private jets and yachts and the like. But it also allowed us to have bigger houses and nicer cars and we gleefully accepted those perks in exchange for flooding our country with the illegals needed to produce this massive growth and increase in our so-called "standard of living." And so we have been complicit in our own demise [and still are as there is currently no collective call to arms to put non-whites (including jews) back in check].

And so the concept of jew produced mindless consumerism based on "more, more, more" gave way to the Gen X and Z human life forms that now sit on this board and endlessly claim how bad their life and life in general is. But when the existential question which they avoid comes knocking, "Would you rather not exist, or have the opportunity to turn lemons into lemonade?" they baulk and cry, "Muh, boomers handed us lemons!" And then that's the end of the "conversation."

A victim mentality of powerlessness where (((The System))) is always to blame for one's imaginary "shitty life" is not a way forward. "I think therefore I am." You want to own a home and you don't think you can? Then either move forward in life without owning a home, find a way to make it happen, or recalibrate your goals to be more in line with current realities. Stop romanticizing "The way it use to be," which in reality was, "The way it never was." So what, people in the 1950's could afford a home, they also only lived to 70 instead of 80. Would you rather own a home or have 10 years added to your life?

And so we are back to Frame Game 101, if you want to change the way you feel about life you have to change the way you are thinking about life. 500 years ago people also felt gloom and doom, you are not special, and your experience is not unique within the existential confines of the human condition. Get over it.

We are not increasing life expectancy at the moment. Next generation will live less than their parents. Its regressing. For the first time since 20th Century.

I dont know if Trump slowed the collapse or he is in it. But since he took office first term things are much worse (except gay shit which slighlty decreased). From 2017 onwards its worse than before. The cost of living for regular people is off the charts. With prices increasing. I know people who receive salaries who are strugling. In France I know of an old guy retired with an above average pension who lives in a big house and started to rent rooms cause he cant afford bills.
Even though i like recessions and crisis. Cause people work and stop wasting time with retardness. But not all people are like me.

If you take away all the showmanship and bullshit Trump is an elitist. One of the worse kind probably. He makes outrageous claims. To autosabotage his anti elitist policies. All the bravado works against him. Or not. Taking away the noise. Obama had more deportations. Results are opposite of what he tweets.

 

[Cooper]

One of Trump's top backers, vulture hedge fund manager Paulson, also main funder of Thomas Massie's opponent, took over and outsourced to China the largest manufacturer or brass and wind instruments in the US, that used to supply marching bands across N. America.

Billionaire Trump Donor Closing U.S. Plant and Moving Work to China

“They’re not answering or returning anyone’s calls,” said the local union leader.

newrepublic.com

Paulson also was a friend of Epstein, figured in his black book and parties.

 

[FrancisK]

Given that you have repeatedly shown that you perception of reality is warped due to you not having any sort of social bonds/connections to the real offline world why should anyone believe your anecdotal data? To you, talking to a single Iranian guy to you means all Iranian are 100+ IQ and warriors, a 20 year old waitress asking you to give refills to table 3 at your very social job means she was hitting on you, and the guy at table 3 complaining about working hard at his job and not making the money he wants (something guys do constantly no matter what their situation is) suddenly means societal collapse.

Don't forget the mom making 150k a year who can't afford a reliable vehicle....

All coming from the guy who a few years ago hated his life because he had no friends and couldn't find a girl because he worked so much.

We are not increasing life expectancy at the moment. Next generation will live less than their parents. Its regressing. For the first time since 20th Century.

I dont know if Trump slowed the collapse or he is in it. But since he took office first term things are much worse (except gay shit which slighlty decreased). From 2017 onwards its worse than before. The cost of living for regular people is off the charts. With prices increasing. I know people who receive salaries who are strugling. In France I know of an old guy retired with an above average pension who lives in a big house and started to rent rooms cause he cant afford bills.
Even though i like recessions and crisis. Cause people work and stop wasting time with retardness. But not all people are like me.

If you take away all the showmanship and bullshit Trump is an elitist. One of the worse kind probably. He makes outrageous claims. To autosabotage his anti elitist policies. All the bravado works against him. Or not. Taking away the noise. Obama had more deportations. Results are opposite of what he tweets.

Magoo you're not a slouch when it comes to making moves. Those people you speak of are they ones who kept pushing to do better or are they ones who sat back on their laurels thinking what they were already doing was enough?